Sales gone bad... opinions needed please

[spazkat]

I have a situation with some horses I sold, but Im not sure what, if anything, I can or should do at this point. So many of you have more experience with this than me I was hoping to get a bit of advice.

A bit over a year ago I sold 3 horses to someone. It started out being one on payments. I should have realized then that this was just a bad situation, as the payments were sporadic at best. To make a long story short the pony that was supposed to be picked up and paid for by July, was finally paid in December. The buyer expressed an interest in 2 others I still had and those were added to the sale at a very late date. The shipper was supposed to be there any day and I was foolish enough to trust the buyer that the payment would be sent priority mail at the end of the week so that the horses could actually leave since they were travelling clear across the country and shipping is always an issue with extreme distances like that. I was to hold papers on all 3 until final payment was made. The week comes and goes with a multitude of excuses... finally I receive a check for less than half of what was owed. Then nothing. If the phone was answered at all it was by someone else who claimed to know nothing about the situation, I left message after message either on their machine or with the person who answered the phone but my calls were never returned. E-mails were bounced with an error message.

I know at this point that I will never see payment for these guys, but Im terribly worried what will happen to them separated from their papers. It makes me sick to think of all negative posibilities and not even know where they are or what has happened to them. They arent the type of ponies that would ever be sold as "pets" so without papers to show or breed I cant imagine what use they would be to her. Should I just accept that theres nothing I can do and let it go?

 

[Miniv]

Did you write up a contract for any of the horses?

MA

 

[minimule]

Sounds like you let the horses go?!?!?! Is there a written/signed contract? Is this all an "oral agreement". If it is a written and signed contract, you could try to pursue it legally. If it is just an oral agreement, looks like you could be left with the short end of the stick.....unfortunately.

I know it is too late now BUT I would have kept the horses until the payment was made....in FULL. If there were issues with the payments on the first one there is no way I would let 2 others go without payment.

I know we all like to think that horse people can be trusted but it just isn't that way anymore.

 

[spazkat]

There was a contract for the first, but the last 2 were added at the very last minute. I know it was foolish to have let them go, but when she wanted to take the others, the shipper was like 2 days out from picking the one up. I realize now I was naive to think that holding the papers for all 3 would ensure payment... in all honesty I dont think I have any chance of ever getting paid for them. It was more worried about what will happen to them without papers. I have considered just giving up and mailing this woman the papers for them just for their future well being, but then I get mad about being burnt after trusting her. I dont even know if she still has them or if they are ok, and have no way of checking as they are clear across the country =/

I guess its just live and learn. Its unfortunate that the ponies may have to pay the price for my poor handling of the situation.

 

[Songcatcher]

Those papers are your only chance of ever getting the money you are owed. She may at some point decide she needs the papers and be willing to pay to get them. There is no way I would let them go without being paid.

 

[HGFarm]

As long as there is a CHANCE that you may get payment, DO NOT mail the papers at all. Even if she doesnt pay, I would never send the papers. Do you have anything even on email?

I would send a CERTIFIED letter to this person and give her a flat deadline as to when the payment is due and document everything in the letter. Keep a copy of everything you send.

Any chance you can repossess or have someone in her area pick them up for you?? I would assume that you would give her a pay off deadline first, since it seems that was not set firmly?

No after the problems with payments on the first, I would never have included the other two, or especially without a written contract. I JUST got a final payment on a horse I sold over a year ago - with sporatic payments that I had to get really NASTY on, after she didnt send me anything OR answer my emails for almost 5 months - then I found out she was out buying other horses and PAYING CASH for them while I was not getting paid. I will NEVER deal with this woman again and it taught me a bitter lesson. I thank heavens I got paid, as I hear I am luckier than others she has dealt with (not a Mini- different breed).

I would see what you can do legally. Anyone else in her area that you could contact to try to get hold of her.

 

[minimule]

We actually had a situation in my area where a horse wasn't being paid for. The seller had contacted others in the area that new the buyer. Once they knew the horse was still there, they made arrangements with a transporter to repossess the horse if payment wasn't made. Maybe something like that can be done for you. I know you are in NY and the horses went cross country but there are enough of us on here that maybe there is someone in her area that could do a drive by?

BUT I wouldn't let those papers go until final payment arrives. No matter what!! If you send them to her, then you are letting her have them for a cheaper price and PAPERED. Hold your ground, keep trying!

 

[Frankie]

Been there, uhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh,,,,,,,,am there right now!!!!!! What a mess!

I would rather you email me, and maybe I can help.

 

[Miniv]

We actually had a situation in my area where a horse wasn't being paid for. The seller had contacted others in the area that new the buyer. Once they knew the horse was still there, they made arrangements with a transporter to repossess the horse if payment wasn't made. Maybe something like that can be done for you. I know you are in NY and the horses went cross country but there are enough of us on here that maybe there is someone in her area that could do a drive by?

BUT I wouldn't let those papers go until final payment arrives. No matter what!! If you send them to her, then you are letting her have them for a cheaper price and PAPERED. Hold your ground, keep trying!

Most transporters won't get into the middle of a repossession because of legal problems and the liability, unless the person who physically has the horses agrees to release the horses.

I agree with HGF Farms' post. It would be helpful if you still have at least e-mails between the two of you about the 2 other horses. AND sending all further correspondance by certified letter.

Give the person a deadline for a payoff and remind her that you still hold the papers. Another idea is to send her a NEW contract for the three horses (certified) and see if she signs and returns a copy. Then, if she does not make a payment you have ammunition!

MA

 

[MInx]

I hate this! I've never sold one on time, or a contract but have bought that way and I did exactly as promised and written out. People who don't make it look bad for people who really need to buy on time and can afford to care for that special lifetime friend once they get it home.

I hope it doesn't sour people on all sales re contract and time payments.

 

[runamuk]

Absolutely nothing to contribute except....where have you been? PM me or email...I thought you fell off the planet :bgrin

:

 

[Voodoo]

I definately wouldn't send the papers to her. Where did you sell the horses to? Maybe there is someone on here who lives close and would drive over and have a talk with this lady about this? I'm sorry for the situation you are in, but I would not give in and send the papers to her JMHO. Is there any way you can use a different phone # to call her. Maybe she has caller ID and if you could sneak around that, then ask to talk to her without telling who you are, maybe you could get a chance to talk to her for a few minutes? I'm sorry you are in this situation.

 

[shane]

do you not tecnically still own these horses then? i would travel to were she lives and lift them back if i were you, you have the documentation on them, shes the thief :nono: i feel for you its a very unfair situation

 

[bluerogue]

Where are the horses supposed to be located now? Maybe someone from the forum is near them and can at least check on them for you. I would not send her the papers unless she sends the rest of the money for the horses first.

 

[Jean_B]

Actually, if you had a contract - this would be a civil issue and would be considered a breach of contract, which would allow you to go after the money through small claims court and filing for garnishment, or for repossession etc.

HOWEVER, since these horses were not included in a contract but were taken without payment, you might have some recourse through the sheriff's office of having her charged with theft. And you should be able to recover the horses!!!!!

Talk to your attorney. That's what I did when I had someone stiff me on a contract. Because we had a contract, I could not have her charged with theft. But I did have her served with a subpoenia to appear in Small Claims Court on Christmas Eve. Never got my money but her credit is messed up for 10 years and I had the satisfaction of knowing I made her Christmas a little less pleasant.

 

[Boinky]

do a little homework! i'm sure with a little research online you can find out if infact the woman still lives in the same location AND if she owns the house property, or other assets ect! You could actually put a LEIN on her house or other property for the payment owed for the horse. you may not get your money NOW but if in the future she decided to sell her assets she would be seriously screwed because she couldn't sell without giving you money and getting you to drop the lein! you could at least make her life a little bit more miserable..and i'm not possitive but i don't think you have to go to court over it or pay as high legal fee's to put a lein on someone. Did you have ANY documentation (ie. e-mails) or anything pertaining to the other horses you "sold" last minute?

 

[Robin1]

Repossess!!

Robin

 

[willowoodstables]

SPAZ!!!!!!!!

Oh my goodness..long time no hear!! Hope all is well other than the missing $$ on the ponies..rats and drat..that kind of thing turns me inside out!!!

PM me woman!!!

Kim

 

[wewindwalker]

Hi Spaz you have a pm. :saludando:

I hate to hear this it makes it bad for others that buy horses on time.

:

 

[Cronewolf]

Maybe she doesn't need the papers because she's using "ringer" papers.