observations of the horse industry

[stormy]

So will throw in my 2 cents for what it is worth. I feel part of the problem is the continued focus on halter with performance being a second thought. Only a very small percent of the registry with a very specific type or look will place in halter but performance is wide open...all types...and should be opened even more. Performance gives value to mares/stallions/geldings over a lifetime, not just the 1 or 2 years most are shown halter......the registry and shows need to expand the area of performance and recognize these horses...we have a parade of champions at Nationals for halter winners but nothing for driving champions, in hand jumping, obstacle.....offering more opportunity, more options for different types and more folks will come.....

A better amateur program would also help I think, where true amateurs can learn and compete (perhaps like baby green in hunters were so many wins pushes you out of that division)......

Recognition for contributions outside the world of showing would be great too.....

And just a little extra comment, we need to keep the mini the horse for everyone, not create something only a professional trainer can handle......

Just my opinion

 

[MountainWoman]

Mini horse are wonderful for everyone and I think your ideas are great Stormy. Many people now are turning to therapy work with their minis and going to parades, etc. I think the problem is the glut of horses on the market and more being born every month with no viable homes for them.

AMHA has the new stock type class and they also have a program called Mini Hours where you can get credit and recognition for the time you spend with your horses doing every day activities. A horse spends such a brief part of its life in the ring as a halter horse. Haven't heard from anyone showing in the stock division but that should open up showing to more people.

I just saw on the sales board on FB the other day someone selling their 60+ minis. It's a sad market for sure.

 

[MiniNHF]

When I first got into minis with my boy I did not want to do halter at all, but this year being my first year showing him halter has brought us together in trusting each other, listening to me etc. But my goal is performance, driving, jumping etc. But I do not think there is enough recognition given to Hunter/Jumpers, obstacle horses etc like there is for halter and driving. It still takes a certain skilled horse to pull it off and be very good at it.

 

[Flying minis]

I agree with Stormy - when I showed big horses, there were breeders and there were "showers / trainers". Not everyone was a breeder. The breeders specialized in producing those high quality foals. But because there were performance options that were WELL REWARDED and HIGHLY REGARDED, horses were worth more than what they could contribute to the breeding pool, and geldings were highly valued. Horses were not "done" with their show career after their two year old year, or three year old year.

It seems with minis we are moving that direction somewhat, I've certainly seen more people moving out of breeding and more getting into some showing or at least using their horses. But still there is a somewhat "invisible" anti-performance bias. I see it when I mention my mare's national championship and three Hall of Fames - which to some people are "less" of an accomplishment than my gelding's national championship - because hers are all in performance and his is in halter. I see it when performance classes are "squished in" at the end of a long show day, pressed for time, and rushed through - after spending all day watching halter classes - where people are accomodated for multiple entries and lateness. I see it at some shows where halter champions get rosettes or other awards and stakes driving champions get plain ribbons.

I also agree, coming in as an Amateur is very difficult, especially if you work / train your own horses. I've been successful doing so - but I also trained big horses professionally in my prior life. Not everyone has that. Novice classes may be a good option for those new to the showring - people don't mind not winning or placing while learning the ropes, but would like to at least feel that there's somewhere to start without having to compete against the nearly "professional" amateurs or youth that have been showing for years.

Just my thoughts, based on 35+ years of showing horses of all breeds, types, and sizes : )

 

[jeanniecogan]

OK, i bred dogs, quality dogs. i showed, sold opnly to approved homes. i got one puppy back that at 6 months old she was matted, starved and had cigarette burns all over her. several years later i got another puppy back that was starved, matted and also had some kind of burns on her. That was it for me. i got out of it. i spayed all my females and neutered the males and hopefully got them into good homes. people are soooo mean. Some people are mean. i know this will be a shock, but there are very few people who really love animals. my friend for many years can walk up to any animal and make friends with them. she just has a knack for it, however go and look at her own two dogs, they are fat, get no exercise and their toenails are an inch long. i take my cutters when i go to visit.

IM WITH THE PERSON WHO SAID " JUST STOP BREEDING"

 

[JMS Miniatures]

Stormy hit the nail on the head. We got to stop looking at the miniature horse as a breeding machine and promote what they can do and thats in the performance arena. I so agree with you on the champions in driving in AMHR not getting the recognition they deserve and IMO really need to change the format and instead of allowing anyone into the stakes class bring back the 1st and 2nd place winners in each open class. Try to make it a true championship class.

Another area is the CDE. ASPC/AMHR has gotten involved with ADS and promoting the VSE's. I heard that a proposal was sent and hopefully to be voted on at this years Convention to add Carriage classes in AMHR. Some shows already offered these classes as non-rated. That is an another area to get people involved if they don't want to do the show ring experience.

It seems like every farm has to own a stallion wheras when it comes to the full size horses that is not the case, at least not the norm, people send their nice mares to be bred to high quality stallions. Stallions and mares bring in the big bucks. In the big horses geldings bring in the money and also your nice mares, but hard to sell the stallions. Training sells when it comes to the full size horses, in the minis sometimes it does, sometimes it doesn't. You're not going to get near the same amount of money as you would in the full size horses. Training unfortuantly does not sell in the minis, breeding does, we have to change that.

I was just at a equine sell and the minis were going for next to nothing, around $50 - $100 with a starting bid of $5. In the full size horses the gelding brought in the big bucks whereas the studs brought in $100 - $200 and depending on their condition the mares $300 - $600.

 

[Max's Mom]

I have so appreciated this thread. I have never bred horses, nor do I have even the slightest interest in doing so. There are some responsible, dedicated, hard-working people who breed and who really care about their horses, and I find it so sad that their efforts are so poorly rewarded. Thank you to those of you who care so much about your horses and the homes that they will go to!

Maybe I'm just getting old and cranky... but I have noticed more and more that people today don't want to put work into their horses, whether big or mini. Why do they bother to have horses if they don't have the time or inclination to ride/drive, train, or work with them? Frankly, I think quite a lot of people are lazy when it comes to their horses. They don't want to put in any effort, but they want to win in the show ring or have a horse that they can pop on once or twice a month and have it be pushbutton perfect. The ads on Craigslist, etc, often are for full sized horses that are 5 or 6 or older who have not even been started under saddle, or advertise a horse that has "potential" for this or that specialty but has not even basic training, or a horse that they haven't worked with in a couple of years because they are 'too busy'.

As for minis, as others have said, we need to find more ways for people to use their horses. I am encouraged by new opportunities, but as has been mentioned, performance classes tend to be an "afterthought" at most shows.

 

[MountainWoman]

Most people will never walk into a show ring nor have any desire to do so. I think we need to promote activities people can do with their minis in their community and at home. Driving is one wonderful activity, therapy work is another. Group outings with friends to various places, local parades maybe hiking with minis. Anything people can do who don't want to show. Even setting up obstacle courses at home can be a lot of fun. It's up to us to show people minis can do so much more than sit in a yard and breed babies. And we need to keep the younger generation interested and engaged and show them how much fun it is to have horses in their lives.

 

[fourluckyhorseshoes]

And we need to keep the younger generation interested and engaged and show them how much fun it is to have horses in their lives.

I totally agree. When I started showing I was just barely above youth age so it made it difficult to get someone to let me show their horse, since I didn't have one. I am so grateful for the people that let me use their wonderful horses. Not sure of the solution to this problem though. I guess just make yourself visible to those that are interested in showing. Have them pay the entry fees and teach them along the way.

 

[BSharpRanch]

I agree with the showing what our little horses can do. The one question I am always asked is what can you do with them? I guess because they are the size of big dogs, people assume that they are just pets. I enjoy going to parades and events with the minis and showing off just what they can do.

I am not big into showing, just go to show off my team and have fun with the other classes. I agree with the halter being a bit overpowering in class offerings and in recognition. Like I said, I do not live to show, it is just an outlet for my creative being. I do think that the performance horses do need to be recognized every bit as much as the halter horses are. The performance horses work really hard, as do their trainers and handlers, and they deserve to be rewarded like the halter horses.

I like the hours reward thing, although I have not read up on it, perhaps I should. The Paint assn. has a thing called Paint Alternative Competition (PAC), which open shows can sign up for and get approved to have those shows count for paint points. I am not sure exactly how it works, but I have been to shows that advertise that they are PAC approved. Too bad that the mini assn. could not do the same thing to get more minis out in public. I know I would (and have) shown my minis at open horse shows, and the little horses always draw a huge crowd.

And for the unwanted horses, at one time, hopefully, they were wanted and possibly loved. The economy has a way of making people make tough choices in their lives. Sometimes the mortgage must come before the hay supplier. Sometimes the human kids need shoes before the horses get pedis. I have seen several people making really hard lifestyle changes because of the economy. People who dearly love their animals, holding on, hoping that things will get better soon. But before they know it, everyone is suffering, human and animal alike. Are these people monsters? No, just loved too much to let go. And even the ones who are letting go are finding it hard to find homes for their horses, even at give away free. This problem is not just one thing, but many things that have combined in the last 6-7 years.

Sorry about rambling. Just some thoughts.

 

[Minimor]

I have so appreciated this thread. I have never bred horses, nor do I have even the slightest interest in doing so. There are some responsible, dedicated, hard-working people who breed and who really care about their horses, and I find it so sad that their efforts are so poorly rewarded. Thank you to those of you who care so much about your horses and the homes that they will go to!

Maybe I'm just getting old and cranky... but I have noticed more and more that people today don't want to put work into their horses, whether big or mini. Why do they bother to have horses if they don't have the time or inclination to ride/drive, train, or work with them? Frankly, I think quite a lot of people are lazy when it comes to their horses. They don't want to put in any effort, but they want to win in the show ring or have a horse that they can pop on once or twice a month and have it be pushbutton perfect. The ads on Craigslist, etc, often are for full sized horses that are 5 or 6 or older who have not even been started under saddle, or advertise a horse that has "potential" for this or that specialty but has not even basic training, or a horse that they haven't worked with in a couple of years because they are 'too busy'.

As for minis, as others have said, we need to find more ways for people to use their horses. I am encouraged by new opportunities, but as has been mentioned, performance classes tend to be an "afterthought" at most shows.

Good points about training. Or lack of. I have been seeing this in Morgans. I see so many advertised for sale, but so few are listed as well trained. They are all green broke, just started, going under saddle but no real training, lots of potential...some halter broke...you get the idea....and these are not 3 or 4 year olds, these horses are 8, 9, 13, 14. Breeders want to sell to new owners--first horses for novice individuals or families. You want to sell to novices and children, you have to be able to offer TRAINED. Everyone uses the excuse of no time, or ill health or old age. And then we see herds being given away because the owner is ill and cannot look after the horses--and they aren't trained so they are giveaways. It's a real shame.

Small equine--not so different, except a lot if them are not even halter broke!

 

[Marsha Cassada]

We picked our dog up from the vet today where he was boarded, and the vet's wife asked me if I knew of a miniature stud, as they had a client with a miniature jenny and wanted a miniature mule. I think I was rather rude; I said I didnt' want any part of that. There were too many equines already.

I can just picture it: we have this really cute female miniature donkey, so wouldn't it be so cool to have a little mule?

 

[chandab]

Well, technically it's a hinny, and you'd be darn lucky to get a stallion to cover a Jenny. Hinnys are fairly rare, since very few stallions will cover a Jenny, donkeys smell different, I've heard it usually takes a stallion that has been raised with jennys to find one willing to cover.

 

[Marsha Cassada]

Well, technically it's a hinny, and you'd be darn lucky to get a stallion to cover a Jenny. Hinnys are fairly rare, since very few stallions will cover a Jenny, donkeys smell different, I've heard it usually takes a stallion that has been raised with jennys to find one willing to cover.

Okay, straighten me out here.

A female donkey is called??

A jenny is???

A hinny is???

If this request ever comes to me again I want to have my facts straight!

 

[poniesrule]

Went to a horse sale yesterday... on average, decent broke horses were selling for $500. The 6 miniatures they had (bred mares w/ colts at side) averaged $90. Yeah, wow.

 

[Minimor]

Marsha--

A female donkey is a jenny. The male of course is a jack.

A hinny is the offspring of a jenny bred to a stallion

A mule is the offspring of a mare bred to a jack

 

[Margo_C-T]

...and, there are some who say that in general, a hinny is more 'horse-like', while a mule is more 'donkey-like'...GENERALLY!

 

[disneyhorse]

Margo... A hinny takes after it's mom so they are more donkey like. Mules are more horse like? That's what I've heard?

 

[Minimor]

Actually no--the hinny does resemble the horse more -- the head is more that of a horse, though still longer than a horse's, and of course the ears are longer, and the mane and tail are more like a horse's mane and tail.

 

[paintponylvr]

and the hinny's I've been around do more of a whinny sound than a bray. That's more "horse-like" to me...

I don't think I've seen/heard of any mini hinny's .