"R" National Disquailifications

[hunterridgefarm]

Normally I don't reply to post, but this time I will.

We as members of the ASPC/AMHR elect our Board of Directors. We elect these fine people to repesent the club and it's members. The Directors have to deal with a lot of situations and problems. We may not always agree with their decisions, but that's why we elected them. Instead of bashing the Directors for their decisions, we should support them. Personally, I think the Directors do an exellent job.

The ASPC/AMHR is a family oriented organization, which I'm prowd to be a long time member. I don't feel like the Directors show favoritism to trainers or anyone else as far as that goes. I feel their decisions are based on their investigations. I don't agree with bashing the Directors or fellow members when you don't agree with a decision.

You may bash me for my opinion, but that's ok. I'm a country boy with broad shoulders, I can carry the load. Now I've got to get off my soap box and

 

[Irish Hills Farm]

I don't recall anyone bashing any director. That was not what this thread was about, nor became about IMO.

I feel that we, the general membership, have a right to know if a rule was broken, what consequences the offender received, etc. If we feel that the punishment was nothing more than a slap on the wrist, we have a right to state that. I think a lot of people are wondering, how is this punishment going to encourage people to not do the same? I mean $500 per horse, that really isn't all that much when you think of the expenses one pays to get a horse ready for show, show entry fees, gas, motel expenses, etc.

Again, this wasn't a newbie, this was someone who has been showing at Nationals for years. A newbie I could understand not knowing but again, that is why we have a rule book filled with rules that are suppose to be followed.......

 

[Mona]

hunterridge, I strongly agree with Irish Hills Farm in that people posting here are not bashing the directors of AMHR for how things were handled in this case, but are merely upset (for the most part) on how things are taken care of when such a thing happens. It is their right, as members of the AMHR to voice their concerns, publicly or otherwise.

 

[blueprintminis]

"I feel that we, the general membership, have a right to know if a rule was broken, what consequences the offender received, etc."

I am licensed by the State of Ohio Counselor and Social Worker board and twice a year every licensee receives a newsletter. Part of that newletter is "Disciplinary Action" taken in the prior 6 months against any licensee. The "offender" is listed by name, profession, and city. What they did and which "rule" was violated is printed and what their punishment was, which ranges from having to take an ethics course all the way up to permanent license revocation. Believe me, yes! this is public humiliation and boy is it a super motivator to KNOW the rules and regs and to BE SURE TO NEVER violate one of them! I don't know why the same thing should not apply here. I certainly would want to know if a trainer that I may be thinking of putting my horses with has a history of rule violations, whether or not the violations were on purpose or by accident. I may not want to deal with this person either way. Just my personal opinion.

 

[ruffian]

How are the new placings going to be announced? Will the owner's be contacted or will the website just be updated?

I agree with Blueprintminis, our local paper has court news every day that gives name, what they did, and their sentence. It's a great deterrent. The same should be done here (in the Journal).

 

[LaVern]

Man, What if there was a third place horse that could have been up there getting their picture taken and could have been advertized in our December National Journal issue as a Reserve Champion. Or heaven forbid what if a Grand or Reserve Grand was stolen from someone. Can a fine of 500.00 compensate those people. I hope this hasn't happened.

 

[sharpllook]

WHAT still NO NAMES........... oh oh stir the pot stir the pot............

Just wait til you hear the NAMES...... and dont say it dont matter......

Who Who????

 

[LaVern]

I didn't mean to stir the pot, I just feel so sad. I just love the Nationals so much.

 

[Littleum]

So why is it always these things are done so hush hush?

Why isn't the membership allowed to know what other members have been taken to task- AND what punishments were meted out?

Seriously, answer me that. DIRECTLY. And don't give me some song and dance about "well, we can't publish all the facts" or "you weren't in the session" or "we don't want people jumping to conclusions" or "we don't want to burn people at the stake"

Multiple trainers had multiple horses disqualified and placings were redistributed. I think that's all the relevant information, isn't it? I think I can decide for myself if it was intentional or just a clerical error on the part of the trainer.

It's been like this for 20 freaking years in BOTH associations. Unless you're "in the know" you'd think neither association ever had anything bad go on, ever, and it's all sunshine and butterfly farts. What a load of BS that is.

Call me when there's a little less "good ol' boys club" and a little more transparency- I'll pick up my memberships again.

 

[littlearab]

I think they should be subspended for 5 years.... or until ??? JUst like I was.

We all know a fine of $500 or even $5000 is no big deal to them. They will just pass it off to the next person they train or show for.

Get real... people..

We will see how fair the BOD really are.. show me there is no ol-boys club.

If I was subspended for sending in paperwork on a purchused bred mare, they should be for showing horses they knew full well did not belong there.

I can tell you why they do it behind closed doors, because it an ol-boys club.

In my case they will not even tell me, what happened behind that door.... they will not tell me what they said about me or what others said about me. To this day I do not know.

I did nothing wrong... the only mistake I made was think they would be fair. Fair has nothing to do with it. It who you are and who you know...

It so much easier to hang the little guy.

Tamara Keller

 

[hunterridgefarm]

I am going to say this last night my husband posted on here and have every right to do so. What I am about to say I know that I will get blasted ,but like him I can take it.

The person that is a trainer and a judge made a honest mistake that was found when several show manger went though there paper work and found the horses that was in question. also my husband keeps all of his stuff from where he has measured.which he found the horses too. So i don't think that this was done on purpose. They go to a lot of shows in there show season so please don't tell me that a mistake cant be made. we are all humans out here. I know I have made my fair share of them. who else has .as the old saying is don't throw rocks at a glass house if you have ghost in your closet. I really think that this needs to be left alone. The trainer that a lot of people are b#$CHING about is a darn good trainer. and yes i would put a horses with him. and more then likely it will be done this year.

"I'm going to urge everyone to lay off this topic. It HAS been handled by the office. Nothing good will come from this hear say and gossip."

--------------------

Carin Ponder, RVT

Iola, TX

Carin, I could not agree with you more on this.

"There was 2 different well known trainers involved with having horses not qualified and one of the same two trainers had the incorrect registration that did not match up with the horse entered at Nationals and they were to get fines and placings taken away is what we heard from some reliable people that were at Convention." this is a post from Coventry Lane Farm. I will tell you this that Jeanne, Lea or Robby DID NOT LET A HORSE GO THOUGH WITH WRONG PAPERS. AND HOW DO I KNOW THIS BECAUSE I WAS AT THE TABLE WITH THEM IF THEY DID NOT HAVE THE PAPER WORK RIGHT THEY WAS TOLD TO GO GET THE RIGHT PAPER WORK AND COME BACK. SO DO NOT SAY THIS ABOUT THEM. THEY ALSO SENT HORSES WAY THAT DID NOT MEASURE IN. TRUST ME WHEN I SAY THIS THEY CHECK THE HORSE AND ITS PAPER TO MAKE SURE THEY MATCH SO PLEASE DONT HAND ME THIS.

I am like Carin on this one. you all need to lay off this topic. it has been handle by the BOD noithing good will come out of this if it is not stop.

diane

 

[Minimor]

It's good to know that fines were given out.

I can see making a mistake on a class entry--easy to write down a wrong number--but it's not so easy to see how a wrong show can be entered. I thought anyone with multiple horses would keep track of what horses were qualified where, and that owners would know their horses didn't go to enough shows. It's a foolish mistake--worse than most--and I do agree that it's unfortunate if some other horses were done out of top placings because of it. These things happen, though, and hopefully the fines will make people take a little more care when they are making entries and getting horses qualified.

 

[sharpllook]

Lets go from a different angle........... What "if" you were the person that DID qualify for the Nationals. Did go with the intention of "fair" play. Only to come out with what you thought was the correct placing for the class YOU WERE QUALIFIED in.

Now we all are human. Humans tend to thrive on good luck...... correct? SO................. if those horses and handlers would NOT have been in the class MAYBE your horse would of been placed differently AT THE TIME, not "slid" up flippen close to 3 months later.

So.... in reality......... 3 judges using a NON Qualified HORSE at the National Show affects ALL horses entered. So "these" NON Qualified horses affected MY horses and my pocketbook.

Its Nationals, get it right or be smart enough to not let it to the membership. DUH.

Thoughts to ponder......... 1600 horses at National......... Kind of affected all of us.........

 

[Echo Acres]

Boy do I have some strong feelings about this, but I will hold back. First if facts are stated, I don't feel it is gossip. So people should really make sure they have facts before posting. Also I feel strongly that these persons names should be posted in the journal for all to see. Mistake or not they are professionals and it is their job to follow the rules. If I was a potential client I would like to know if that trainer does his job or not. Not to just condition my horse and show it, but know and abide by the rules 100%. Like others have said everything else is posted in the papers, tickets, fines, banqruptcy, etc. Most of it is for public knowledge and some is for all to see. This usually has more of an impact than having someone pay money and go on their way.

Lavern, you mentioned a very good point about a grand or reserve missing out on their spotlight time. Also what about the person who didn't get a ribbon? The one who should have had 10th place. To some it might just be tenth place, but I know in some of those big classes I would be very happy with that.

Yes it would be nice if the office could verify this before the show, but I am not going to bash them. This was a big event, they were very busy and mistakes can be made. I know all of us has made at least one at our jobs. It would be nice if the system could handle data like this and make a printout so they could just verify with that. Not sure if that is possible.

 

[JourneysEnd]

Okay, I'm not "in the know" on this, but I trust Carin.

Why don't we wait for ALL the facts before we publicly flog these people

Tamera, I know you got the short end of the stick and wish we had known when it happened, we would have supported you and protested to the board.

 

[funnybunny]

I agree with Irish Hills, sharpllook, Echoacres and others. I'm not flogging anybody. I'm just trying to understand what is going on here. I'm a member and I feel I have a right to know what is going on.

I'm just saying, Yes, mistakes happen, and consequences follow mistakes. This is supposed to be a "professional" trainer. I don't know which one y'all are talking about, but nevertheless, this is a serious matter that can affect us all. Someone even said that this trainer is also a judge. That doesn't give me a lot of confidence!

I agree that, in Clubs, it is frequently WHO you are and if it had been a "little person" the consequences might have been much greater. BUT rules were written to provide "fairness" and equality to the general membership.

Does anyone know if this particular trainer has made other "mistakes" in the past, or is the trainer's record perfectly clean? If this person has always demonstrated good judgment, ethics and honesty in the past, that would make a difference to me as far as how I comprehend the situation.

That also would have made a difference to the BOD, it would seem.

 

[Boinky]

Why don't we wait for ALL the facts before we publicly flog these people unsure.gif

I think the reason people are upset is because it is sounding like we will NEVER KNOW the facts... the BOD, it sounds, has decided to keep this a closed issue. It's not right..and it's not fair to anyone involved (which is a whole lot of people..anyone involved in nationals and the process and finances it takes to get there.. ). sorry but i have to say i get rather defensive and suspicius when I hear "lets just let it drop... nothing good will come of it" ect ect. sounds t me like a hush hush cover up. Of course somethng good would come of it.. other people would be less likely to make the same "mistake" (true mistake or not) I personally don't have faith in our governmental legal system and i'm somewhat questioning our AMHR legal system when it's members are not involved. I'm hoping they are truly doing whats best for our club but how do we know if they wont share information?

Now i've hear through the gossip mill who this person is...i'm pretty sure it was factual as to who this peson was..and let me say it's not a suprrise at all.this person has been surrounded by controversy in the last few years in both AMHA and AMHR...... To me..what the heck is another slap on the wrist to a person that blatantly breaks the rules and gets away with it every time? This may or may not have been an accident..i relise things happen and accidents are made but i still firmly beleive that any disciplinary actions should be made public.

 

[HGFarm]

According to Parliamentary Procedure, which everyone abides by, some things are required to be done behind closed doors, to avoid possible embarrassment, false accusations, personal information and a possible lawsuit by those being 'accused', for publicly releasing info that should not be.

I agree, the registry IS handling it, and sounds like in the manner according to the rules. I don't see that it is being done 'secretly' or anything else, if it was discussed in the meeting, it will be in the minutes, again according to Parliamentary Procedure. So everyone whip out your Robert's Rules of Order and study up....

By laws and constitutions of organizations are usually made to not conflict with Roberts Rules, as anything not covered in By Laws, etc.. is then governed under Roberts Rules... It then goes to State Statutes, etc....

I would hesitate to make an opinion or assume what actually happened until I had real facts to go by... otherwise it seems quite a waste of energy.

 

[Boinky]

if they are proceeding according to the rules i have no problem with that. HOWEVER i still firmly believe the issue needs to be made public..even if they dont' name names they need to tell what happend, the ruling, and whatever disciplinary measures were taken. they also need to make know publicly which placings at nationals were changed and who was bumped up ect. I don't know the facts but my guess is there was less "mistake" involved than some people would like to make everyone believe because i've seen this person surrounded by controversy and problems....

 

[gvpalominominis]

First let me say that my comments are NOT meant as a bash against trainers… they are needed in our industry… and I have some good friends who are trainers…. luv ya : )

There have been some very valid points brought up from different points of view. I think a big reason I’m finding some of this offensive is that I’m being told I don’t have the right or need to know something that happened at “OUR” club’s National Show that warranted special sessions, reprimands and fines. But I stand with my statement that ESPECIALLY if you are a ‘Professional’ you have a duty to be accounted for. I still don’t even know WHO you are talking about, but observed it’s a ‘he’, so if ‘he’ is smart… he’d ward all this off with a public statement apologizing for his mistake to whomever it affected and what he’s going to do to assure it won’t happen again since it was not intentional…. done… nothing more to gossip about and handled like a true ‘professional’.

Don’t be naïve’…heck… even our local clubs trainer members are given ‘special’ consideration…and behavior overlooked sometimes as to not want to rock their boat… because they feel they are the ones that bring in the revenue for the club and they don’t want to lose that revenue! True story! I am also NOT saying that trainers don’t contribute time and well needed input to the clubs. There have been posts on this very forum by well known, long time members that ‘trainers’ deserve the ‘second’ look in the show ring, that they deserve it because of all that time and money they put into it.. .. WHAT?? Try to tell my husband that at tax time when I’ve spent over $40k!!!! Most exhibitors simply just want a fair and impartial playing field in the ring!

Regarding THIS particular issue… if AMHR is handling it via proper protocol and that if it is true that if or since it was found to be true that it will be posted and available to the membership on the club website… I also feel that should satisfy those that feel we would like or have the right to know. To say we deserve the information prior to that point, if that is the case…then that would also be improper protocol. If it says in our Official Rules that ALL discipline is ‘closed doors’… then I guess for those who disagree, they need to initiate the steps to try and change it if desired.

Here’s what I found under Disciplinary Actions in the Rules -

D. In connection with any disciplinary proceedings, the decision of the Board of Directors may be published in The Journal.

The word ‘may’ gives the ‘option’ to do that event, not necessarily the requirement to do so.