"R" National Disquailifications

[humhill1]

Has anyone heard about some horses being disquailified AFTER the "R" Nationals ended ?? And that AMHR was not going to redistribute the placings, money or ribbons ?? Never know what's gossip and what's not !!

 

[bingo]

I did hear something about some horses having placings taken away. I do not know about the rest of the horses moving up though.

 

[LisaB Ozark]

There were horses disqualified from futurity. In the futurity classes the correct monies were given but the ribbons are not exchanged out. I do not know about the rest of the classes.

Lisa

 

[sdmini]

I heard several horses that placed or won at National were not qualified to be there. The association is going to pull titles/placing on those horses.

 

[Irish Hills Farm]

I've heard there are a few horses that were not qualified to show at Nationals. If this is true, than their titles should be stripped from them! PERIOD. And the person(s) involved should be fined and/or banned for a certain period of time. Along with having their name(s) published in The Journal.

It is clearly stated in the rule book what it takes to qualify a horse to be shown at Nationals, claiming ignorance doesn't get you out of trouble in the real world, it shouldn't within ASPC/AMHR.

 

[Becky]

Oh my! I just don't understand why some people seem to think they need to cheat to win!

Wouldn't/shouldn't AMHR check the qualifications on entries before the show?

 

[Birdmomjb]

I got wind of this while in Branson for the convention.

The story was that this was a big name trainer and that he was fined. If its true his clients will take care of any futher punishment. I know that I had been paying to have my horses shown and lost a National placing I would be beond mad.

I myself got a call from the home office about 2 weeks after Nationals telling me that I had shown 2 horses that were not qualified. I gave them the names of the shows for those 2 and all was well. I agree that shoud have been checked before not after. But I know that that is a huge job.

Jan

 

[gvpalominominis]

I agree with the statement that it is AMHR's RESPONSIBILITY to verify qualifications of entries 'before' the show, whether its a big job or not... they have a database don't they? If you are an organization and you require certain rules, you must be prepared to enforce those rules. This is not to say that it is not also the responsibility of the entrant to provide correct and accurate information to the best of their knowledge and capability. Apparently, they had the time to find the errors afterward... why didn't they perform this exam before to prevent it from happening in the first place? People sometimes make mistakes and new entrants may not understand the requirements and sometimes need guidance. Haven't you ever accidently walked into or entered the wrong class on an entry form? Were you trying to cheat? I'm far from perfect... I have!

Why do we always have to jump to the conclusion that any exhibitor is trying to cheat on purpose! (I'm not saying some people don't cheat on purpose... but I think its wrong to convict them before facts are known.) Its a sad note that the human race in general will eagerly believe the worst in and about others first before the truth is revealed. That's why tabloids like the Enquirer and Star etc. are top sellers and are still even in exsistence! People THRIVE on the drama!

For me, I think I'll just believe that there were some errors and possible discrepancies that need to be corrected on some of entry forms and may indicate some corrections in the placings.

Ok.. Stepping down...

 

[Leeana]

I think its best to let the BOD deal with this instead of spreading rumors and gossip, even if we all will know eventually who these trainers are (i only know of the one, didnt know there was another) as i believe these will go into the Journal possibly, but i feel very strongly about my first statement. What happened was wrong and should be handled by the BOD and registry.

 

[Irish Hills Farm]

Conventry Lane...that is interesting that a person took a horse to Nationals with the wrong set of papers and only got a fine. The last time a person did that, he was suspended for 5 years and issued a $5,000.00 fine.

And as far as these being first time exhibitors, the one person is NOT. He is a trainer and a judge. He of all people should know the rules. And AMHR has had these requirements in place for how many years? If in doubt, read your rule book. If still in doubt, call the home office!

 

[txminipinto]

I'm going to urge everyone to lay off this topic. It HAS been handled by the office. Nothing good will come from this hear say and gossip.

 

[Irish Hills Farm]

So Karen, you're saying we don't have a right to know or discuss this?

It's our club, don't we have the right to know how it was handled?

 

[KMA FARM]

Hello,

I have posted only once, this makes the second time, with this group. The first time, you made me feel like a complete idiot for asking a question I thought someone could help with me with. When I first got into the showing of miniatures was around 2001 and we called ourselves the clueless group. I am sure the ones of you that met us, knew we were truthful and looking for guidance and trying to learn all your rules and regulations in a short period of time. For others, I am sure you thought " easy pickins. Well I sure have learned a lot from all of you over my short 7 years of showing, and ya'll know where you fit in.

Nationals 2007 was not fair for some amateur exhibitors, a protest was filed with i's dotted, t's crossed.

A professional trainer showed against some real amateurs and got a slap on the hand, did not follow the instructions given and was allowed to continue showing, no name in the journal either. I guess it just depends who is on the board and the individual involved.

With Thanksgiving coming I wish all of you would count your many blessings. I was blessed to have known some individuals who gave their time, experience, heart and soul to the AMHR and was not paid a dime to do it.

May all of you experience the same blessings I have, and enjoy the show.

KOCH'S MINI ACRES

AKA KMA FARM

Lonna Anderson Stramka

 

[txminipinto]

So Karen, you're saying we don't have a right to know or discuss this? It's our club, don't we have the right to know how it was handled?

Yes, that's what I'm saying. Why must we lench mob everyone? The situation has been handled and the appropiate legal actions have been taken. Do you really want to hang these individuals out for public humiliation? Because that's what you're doing. Do you think this board is private, that only those who've logged in can read? Many people who never post, who are influential in this industry, read this board and others. And what they read reflects back on those who've posted. This is an extremely touchy and embarassing situation.....how would you like it if your dirty laundry was aired here for all to read?

 

[funnybunny]

I do not think it is the responsibility of the AMHR to check qualifications before the show since the information clearly states the horse must be qualified in order to enter. Horses must also have Coggins test results and a Health Certificate to show in the event. Should the AMHR have to verify that the Coggins test was correct by checking with the veterinary laboratories or veterianary practices? I believe exhibitors and trainers should bear the responsibility of making sure the horses are qualified, just as the exhibitors and trainers are responsible for getting Health Certificates and Coggins test results.

If I had a horse with a trainer which was stripped of awards, I'd also be red hot about it.

On the other hand, if the trainer picked up the horse from a farm to show at Nationals and the owner said it was already qualified, it would not necessarily be the trainers fault. Of course, you'd think a professional trainer would go to the trouble to check on that.

Since a trainer is supposed to be a "professional" in this, I would think the BOD would be remiss if just a fine was given. Behavior such as that should be strongly discouraged and a suspension would be in order. IMHO. A fine doesn't deter behavior like a suspension would.

Of course, in the politics of horse shows, sometimes it is WHO it is, not WHAT the offense is.

In the horse business, some people are banned for life while others who do the same thing just get a slap on the wrist.

I've got my asbestos flame suit on....

 

[Irish Hills Farm]

So Karen, you're saying we don't have a right to know or discuss this? It's our club, don't we have the right to know how it was handled?

Yes, that's what I'm saying. Why must we lench mob everyone? The situation has been handled and the appropiate legal actions have been taken. Do you really want to hang these individuals out for public humiliation? Because that's what you're doing. Do you think this board is private, that only those who've logged in can read? Many people who never post, who are influential in this industry, read this board and others. And what they read reflects back on those who've posted. This is an extremely touchy and embarassing situation.....how would you like it if your dirty laundry was aired here for all to read?

Wow how self-righteous of you.

So, any dirty laundry that happens within AMHR/ASPC should be kept quite and we all should go on our way with smiles on our faces like nothing happened. Okay.

I guess we all should just throw the rule book out the window and do whatever we please because it will never been talked about publicly. Or should NOT be according to you.

 

[Belinda]

I would like to add my two cents for they are worth !! And one is from my seat as Director !! As for the horses that were not qualified they have been dealt with and it was just as far as I know 4 horses.. They have lost their awards ( and the horses behind them will be moved up.) and were fined per horse and it was a good amount. As to who has to pay it I guess that is between owner and trainer !! The person making entries is the one fined.. as far as I understand..

As to why this was not caught before Nationals , there are sometimes mistakes as we are all human when you are processing 1600 horses and thousands of entries... It was sure not on purpose.. But this has been dealt with .

I know nothing about entering horse on wrong papers ?? I think some other situations might have gotten tangled up in this that had NOTHING what so ever to do with showing.. and that is how the rumor mill works things get messed up and NOT told the right way..

And as for the person showing Amateur she was dealt with , and it was more than just a slap on the hand.. And I doubt she will show Amateur for sometime...

I also hope everyone enjoys the Holidays and their families

 

[Irish Hills Farm]

I do not think it is the responsibility of the AMHR to check qualifications before the show since the information clearly states the horse must be qualified in order to enter. Horses must also have Coggins test results and a Health Certificate to show in the event. Should the AMHR have to verify that the Coggins test was correct by checking with the veterinary laboratories or veterianary practices? I believe exhibitors and trainers should bear the responsibility of making sure the horses are qualified, just as the exhibitors and trainers are responsible for getting Health Certificates and Coggins test results.
If I had a horse with a trainer which was stripped of awards, I'd also be red hot about it.

On the other hand, if the trainer picked up the horse from a farm to show at Nationals and the owner said it was already qualified, it would not necessarily be the trainers fault. Of course, you'd think a professional trainer would go to the trouble to check on that.

Since a trainer is supposed to be a "professional" in this, I would think the BOD would be remiss if just a fine was given. Behavior such as that should be strongly discouraged and a suspension would be in order. IMHO. A fine doesn't deter behavior like a suspension would.

Of course, in the politics of horse shows, sometimes it is WHO it is, not WHAT the offense is.

In the horse business, some people are banned for life while others who do the same thing just get a slap on the wrist.

I've got my asbestos flame suit on....

Funnybunny.

I couldn't agree with you more.

And thank you Belinda for posting on this topic!

 

[StarRidgeAcres]

So Karen, you're saying we don't have a right to know or discuss this? It's our club, don't we have the right to know how it was handled?

Yes, that's what I'm saying. Why must we lench mob everyone? The situation has been handled and the appropiate legal actions have been taken. Do you really want to hang these individuals out for public humiliation? Because that's what you're doing. Do you think this board is private, that only those who've logged in can read? Many people who never post, who are influential in this industry, read this board and others. And what they read reflects back on those who've posted. This is an extremely touchy and embarassing situation.....how would you like it if your dirty laundry was aired here for all to read?

Carin,

I generally agree with most things you say and do.

But this time, I personally think you're wrong about this. We do have a right to discuss this whether it be on this forum, over the phone, in person, at convention, whatever. Sadly, with the way some things are handled within BOTH registries, many people who violate the rules are not subject to the discipline outlined in the rules, but instead are told quietly to stop. Well, as a paying member, I want to know about these things because it may directly impact a decision I make regarding my horses in the future.

I was not aware of this situation until it came up here. Can I probably guess who is involved? Yep! But I'll reserve that until I know more. Now...will I know more? Will this information be given to me by the registry? Hmmm.

 

[txminipinto]

Self-righteous? Hmm, that's a new one. No, I just prefer not to drag other trainers, breeders, owners, and exhibitors through the mud. I only hope that those who are doing the dragging are never on the other end of the rope. But as Belinda posted, it's been handled.