New driving horse--Gabriel is hitched!!(Lot of Pictures)

[MiniHGal]

Hi all,

Well, Gabriel is driving...and doing quite well! As a sidenote, feel free to critique, discuss, and question these pictures....I don't mind and I am sure everyone would benefit.

Gabriel is our 3 yr old 14.3-15 hh Draft cross (Paint is the other side, or so we heard). He started grounddriving around Christmas last year (I think), then had until late June/early July off (I was at school), and has been getting worked 1-3 x a week since then (a little more now that I am not driving Fascination for a show). His first hitch was the 13th of this month (I think?), with lots of helpers and much ado (not from him though!)

He will start light riding next year (as he is still growing--daily, sometimes, or so it seems!), as well as maybe a show or two in the fall of next year (riding and driving?).

But before I show his pictures, I will post those of the minis. Pippin has started grounddriving, very light, and took to it like a duck to water...he is two this year. I will do more driving work with him next year. The other pictures are some more I got of Fascination and I at the Henry Boyd CDE (other pictures are on an old thread). Picture credit to A. Simpson.

Dan is the fuzzy boy in these pictures.

Galloping into the water.

Doing what Fascination loves best.

And now the big horse!

"Hmm, I don't think this is how it goes..." The day before hitching, getting him used to the cart.

Second time driving. Training cart, training harness (means not a big loss if he goes berserk, and will break fairly easily).

Third time.

Unfortunately, the pictures from the initial drives in the marathon vehicle didn't turn out well, usually because we drove in the evening, and so the pictures were fuzzy and dark. Then his seventh drive...was less than stellar, so no pictures came from that. I was waiting for a 'bad' drive--he had been flawless so far, so I was expecting it. But the worst he had was stubborness and not wanting to turn properly. So we never did get out of a walk.

:

The eighth drive, however, was very nice. We walked and walked, then went around the neighborhood and into a house building area (lots of nice flat ground) to work some more. Gabriel knows his cues for all gaits well, and has been doing a little bit of canter work since the third drive.

Walking, walking...hum de dum (he would really rather go a little faster, but knows better).

Ready to work--fortunately he knows his Whoa command very very well and so our 'safe' place is stand and think.

Working on stretching...

Trotting along. His trot isn't very developed yet, but he has potential.

And then his favorite thing, a nice working canter. He doesn't try to pull the reins away or speed up...but he lets me know he's ready to go.

One of my favorite pictures...he is not a deadhead and he knows how to use that hind end!

And a nice quiet halt to end the day.

I know that is a lot of pictures...but I did downsize them, and I hope you enjoy looking at them!!

Thanks for looking! Ask away...

 

[Sanny]

I just have to say WOW. Time for me to learn more about CDE. It looks like something I would love. So far I really hadn't paid much attention too it so just didn't know much and have focused instead on pleasure driving and showing. I always lOVED cross country jumping and eventing though and here we go - mini style!!

Gabrial is gorgeous he looks like a great horse. Love his head set and his stride. I'm just enjoying the great pictures I don't have any critique to add. I think they all look wonderful.

 

[nootka]

Awesome!

No critique just observing and saying you and your horses look to be having a great time.

Congrats!

Liz M.

 

[hobbyhorse23]

As a sidenote, feel free to critique, discuss, and question these pictures....I don't mind and I am sure everyone would benefit.

Breanna, I love you. :lol: You know your posts always end up being the most informative on the board and I always get excited when I see you posting again.

Pippin has started grounddriving, very light, and took to it like a duck to water...he is two this year. I will do more driving work with him next year.

Oh my God, he's so adorable! You know I'm a sucker for the chestnuts.

: Were you working him next to Dan like a pseudo-pair or was he being ground-driven by someone else? I think that's a fabulous way to train them but had never heard of doing it with a single horse and two-wheeled vehicle and I'd like to know how you set it up.

And another question: I've always noticed the unique pads you use on Fascination and have recently spotted them on other horses trained by Tanglewood Minis as well as now Pippin and Gabriel. Is this a special order item that Lois makes? I love the way you can color coordinate without all the bulk and fuzz of a fleece pad. Especially on the breastcollar! I'd like to get me one of those.

:

Then his seventh drive...was less than stellar, so no pictures came from that. I was waiting for a 'bad' drive--he had been flawless so far, so I was expecting it. But the worst he had was stubborness and not wanting to turn properly. So we never did get out of a walk.

:

I think it's really important to stress this paragraph. So many people (including me) training their own horses may get frustrated when the horse suddenly doesn't get something they got yesterday and it's important to know that it's normal. I really admire you as a horsewoman because you kept in mind that no matter how calmly Gabriel seemed to be taking things, he was STILL a green horse and was going to do something eventually. You stayed calm, kept things in perspective, worked through it calmly and slowly, and as a result it was a virtual non-event except for losing a picture opportunity. :lol: THAT is a good trainer and why I follow your posts like gospel! LOL. You are a reminder to me to do things right and get help if I don't know how.

The eighth drive, however, was very nice. We walked and walked, then went around the neighborhood and into a house building area (lots of nice flat ground) to work some more. Gabriel knows his cues for all gaits well, and has been doing a little bit of canter work since the third drive.

Those pictures are incredible, all of them.

: I drank them in like rain. It is obvious Gabriel is going to be something special and that is due almost entirely to you (a little credit does go to him for being so handsome!) :bgrin Let's see if I can ask some of the things I think people will be wondering about.

-First of all, canter work. How did you introduce this and why do you do it?

-Second, we see here that Gabriel is using an ordinary English bridle and no blinkers. Is this allowed? Why do you do it? What are the benefits or disadvantages? Will you ever drive him in blinkers?

-One picture shows him in a different bridle with no cavesson. What is your opinion on the safety of bridles without cavessons? (We've had discussions about this recently.)

-What makes this a "training harness?" Is it just cheaper or are there also construction differences?

-There are white lines running from his saddle through the bit to the girth in most of these pictures. Are these those "sliding sidereins?" What is their use? Are they different from a martingale or other headset device?

A question of my own here- have you used a kicking strap with Gabriel? I know you're the one who told me about them for Kody and said Fascination had been trained with one but I don't see one on the big guy. I'd be a lot more afraid of the damage he could do than of the minis! :new_shocked: Anyway, I am absolutely in awe of the movement and carriage you've got him showing already. I know how much further he has to go and how green he really is but he looks like he could go in the ring and win already. Even his halts are square and on the bit! :aktion033:

I seriously need to come down and take some lessons from you and Tanglewood's trainer. I know I would learn an amazing amount.

Leia

 

[rabbitsfizz]

I too have little to add except that you two (Leia yes- YOU!!) should be seriously thinking of writing a book specifically about Miniature Harness Training- you can both take excellent pictures, give excellent explanations and also, and this is the all important part- explain yourselves understandably.

I have never used blinkers and my opinion on checkreins- however loose- is well known, IMO neither are necessary and I know Breanne can put them on and take them off at will on Fascination- I was always told this was not possible and I believed it until I took them off a sixteen year old gelding I was pair training.

So- it is possible to (carefully) take then off, if the horse has the right temperament.

My take on it when I started was- just like a martingale or a stronger bit, you can put them on IF they are needed, and so I alwasy started in an open bridle.

I have never yet found a horse that needed blinkers and, since we can use open or closed bridles here, I have never had to use them.

I would like an explanation of the running side reins too, as I have never used them- I can see their use and have used them lunging and free schooling, also a full Pessoa (engages the rear end) but never actually in harness.

Pippin is GREAT I am SO glad you have started him- how big is he now- are you getting him a cart???

I do always use a noseband- its traditional and it comes with the bridle- I tend to use an in-hand bridle for driving, our inhand bridles are exactly the same pattern as a driving bridle, but without the blinkers, so they are ideal.

I have never found the noseband makes any difference, though, as it is always done up too loose to actually do anything- it is not supposed to do anything except look pretty, a drop noseband is used if the mouth is needed to be held in a certain position- quite a few of our big horses team drivers do use drops, but fairly loose- I think they are used to prevent over opening of the mouth, in the way a loose martingale would be used.

I would also be interested in hearing Breanne's take on this, though.

 

[ThreeCFarm]

I love him!!! Feel free to post as many pictures of your horses that you want, at any time. I believe most of us really enjoy your posts.

 

[Devon]

GOOD Job WOW CDE Looks SO Fun! :bgrin

 

[Shari]

I second Breanna should write a book.... You have a gift!

Love your posts and photos as always. Looks like your green horses are doing well and looking very nice.

:

I so need to get Theia going.

 

[mondak]

OK, so I have to say that I LOVE when you post!!! I always look at your pictures with awe, one day I hope to get my horses as far as you have

: . I love your big horse, he is gorgous :new_shocked: !

Courtney :aktion033:

 

[RockRiverTiff]

Well I've always thought Pippin was a handsome little guy, so I'm happy to see pics of him again, and Gabriel looks lovely though I don't have the kind of driving knowledge to give a good critique, but those pics of Fascination...I think Sanny said it best with "WOW!" I've always loved watching the 3-day eventers, but I never guessed there was something comparable for the minis. That's just awesome! Thanks for posting.

 

[Sterling]

Well it's so good to see you again Breanna!! As always I look forward to you sharing your pictures and your narrations of them...sure have missed this! Your Gabriel is beautiful! He sets off nicely (if I remember correctly) your other horse who is black and white....ever consider a team with them? Thanks for sharing the pics with us...I too offer no criitiques.....just enjoying the pics!

:

 

[outlaw]

The white things are draw reins arn't they?? Why do you use them instead of say side reins?? Do you prefer one over the other. I use side reins but I do alot of Dressage. Just curious. Other than that all of them were great and I enjoy the pictures!!!!

outlaw

 

[MiniHGal]

Hey Sanny and RockRiverTiff, it sure is a LOT of fun! We often get to compete on the eventing courses, except there are no jumps involved (or I hope not anyway!). And it never gets boring...always a new thing to challenge your horse and yourself. Its got me hooked in a big way...if you ever have the time and have an event nearby, give it a shot!

Haha...no way am I knowledgable enough yet to write a book! Now, maybe do add ins on some stuff...but a book...

: Shari, I look forward to pictures of Theia!! And of course Maggie, wearing her harness (?)... :bgrin

Were you working him next to Dan like a pseudo-pair or was he being ground-driven by someone else?

My mom was driving Dan, and I was ground driving Pippin. Nothing connected Pippin to Dan or the cart, except for me sitting in the cart (which is an EE). He is very used to working with carts, and Dan is quite solid enough to withstand any antics. And yes, Lois does make those for sale, any color yarn. I have crocheted them as well, but I don't have the patience and of course her's are neater. Actually I think the pads shown on Fascination's harness are at least 7 years old (harness' original pads), and they used to be used nearly daily.

-First of all, canter work. How did you introduce this and why do you do it?
-Second, we see here that Gabriel is using an ordinary English bridle and no blinkers. Is this allowed? Why do you do it? What are the benefits or disadvantages? Will you ever drive him in blinkers?

-One picture shows him in a different bridle with no cavesson. What is your opinion on the safety of bridles without cavessons? (We've had discussions about this recently.)

-What makes this a "training harness?" Is it just cheaper or are there also construction differences?

-There are white lines running from his saddle through the bit to the girth in most of these pictures. Are these those "sliding sidereins?" What is their use? Are they different from a martingale or other headset device?

Questions abound in Leia's post... :lol:

Canter work is an important part of a CDE horse's knowledge, at least at the higher levels. Gabriel has always had canter as part of his vocabulary, starting in lungeing, then grounddriving, and then driving. He understands it is just a gait that he will be asked to perform...and not a big deal. Once he was quiet driving, in an arena, I went down the long side and said, "Gabriel, can-ter!"...and he did. Then I asked him to trot (he knows his downward transition cues as well) and we did. As of now, I am putting little emphasis on picking up the correct lead (esp as we are only asking for canter on straightaways), just as long as he does it quietly. Later we will work on flying lead changes.

No blinders is allowed in ADS shows. I generally start my young horses in an open bridle so that they know what is following them, where I am, and get used to the whole idea. This is largely a safety issue....if your bridle breaks or your horse gets the bridle off for whatever reason, he is less likely to scare himself at the sudden view of the carriage if he was driven in an open bridle first. I have heard of both instances happening. Now, depending on how the horse does without blinders, and where he is headed (show, pleasure, CDE), they will go in blinders later on. Gabriel, even though he is going to ADS events, will eventually have blinders...because, and I admit to 'vanity', blinders can look very flashy, and are, of course, traditional. That is if he accepts them, which I think he will.

The only reason he was driven without a noseband for much of his training was because that was the bridle I happened to use and I didn't want to go searching for the cavesson. When I cleaned out the tackroom (what a task!!) I found it, so that is why it is on in the last pictures. For most horses, I do not believe there is a safety issue without a noseband. If they are gaping their mouth that widely, then something is most likely pinching them or they don't like their job or there is dental work to be done. If that doesn't solve the problem...then maybe you have to look at drops or flashes...I have had horses get their tougues over the bit with and without nosebands; it seems to make little difference. Never had a horse (well, not driving, anyway) that was a confirmed runaway (grabs the bit and leaves), so I don't know if a noseband/crank/drop would make a difference there. I will cross that bridge when I come to it. So he doesn't need it, but it is nice to have.

The training harness shown is cheap, cheaply made, and an 'extra'. For anything more than ring or light driving, I would not trust it. While the saddle is decent and the tugs are solid, the breeching holdback straps are especially thin, and the breastcollar has only the one strap, so does not fit quite like it ought to. The breastcollar is also lighter than I would like for a horse of this strength. So it would be fairly easy for Gabriel to break, meaning for training, he would not be as scarred by a wreck early on (sooner the cart is off, the better), but not good for competition. For the price we got it for (nothing) it is darn good for its purpose!

The 'sliding sidereins' are also called German sidereins, strings, and a whole slew of other stuff. I use them to help remind the horse to not invert. If you notice, in most (if not all) of these pictures, there is a lot of slack in the strings and they are not in use at all. That is how it should be on a good horse. The only time they come into play is if he puts his head up very high (ie: spooking at something). At that point, they gradually get tighter until he decides to put his head down and then they are passive again. Really, they are there to do one of my jobs (I am perfectly capable of asking him to put his head down myself) while I am occupied with preventing him from, say, running into a parked car or counterbending or whatever. Like anything, they could be tightened down to where the horse is going around, nose to chest, but that is not their intended use. The way I use them, I don't feel they really even fall under the heading of 'headset devices'.

have you used a kicking strap with Gabriel? I know you're the one who told me about them for Kody and said Fascination had been trained with one but I don't see one on the big guy. I'd be a lot more afraid of the damage he could do than of the minis!

You know, it is always something I think about each time I hitch a big horse...but I don't have one for horses. So they don't wear one. However, once the horses are solid...they are solid...I have a pretty good idea of what is going to cause problems, and I have not yet had a bucker (Gabriel is more of a rearer). And heck yes they can do more damage than a mini. :new_shocked:

Pippin is GREAT I am SO glad you have started him- how big is he now- are you getting him a cart???

Pippin is 26.5" tall....and not growing...

but hey I knew he'd be small when I got him! :bgrin I have a cart for him, from a friend that had a driving horse as small as him. He is going to be a fun drive too.

He sets off nicely (if I remember correctly) your other horse who is black and white....ever consider a team with them?

You know, I have thought about that...though more along the lines of a tandem...but they just aren't similiar...for one thing, Gabe has a lot more fire than Ref, and he is taller. Heck I might do it for the fun of it.

Ref has already played wheeler and seemed to like it. :lol: We will see.

Thanks all.... I enjoy your posts!

:

 

[hobbyhorse23]

As of now, I am putting little emphasis on picking up the correct lead (esp as we are only asking for canter on straightaways), just as long as he does it quietly. Later we will work on flying lead changes.

Okay, now that's something I can ask for myself! I've always wondered how you tell them to take a lead in the vehicle. I seem to recall hearing that the advanced tests that were using canter always had you picking it up in a corner so the horse would take the lead but it seems like you should be able to signal for it yourself. How do you do this? Half-halts? The whip? Both? I'm going to slowly start introducing Kody to regular collected canter work for the purpose of building up his stifles and will also be introducing speed into his hazards as he becomes ready for that and I'd like to do it right.

The 'sliding sidereins' are also called German sidereins, strings, and a whole slew of other stuff. I use them to help remind the horse to not invert. If you notice, in most (if not all) of these pictures, there is a lot of slack in the strings and they are not in use at all. That is how it should be on a good horse. The only time they come into play is if he puts his head up very high (ie: spooking at something). At that point, they gradually get tighter until he decides to put his head down and then they are passive again. Really, they are there to do one of my jobs (I am perfectly capable of asking him to put his head down myself) while I am occupied with preventing him from, say, running into a parked car or counterbending or whatever. Like anything, they could be tightened down to where the horse is going around, nose to chest, but that is not their intended use. The way I use them, I don't feel they really even fall under the heading of 'headset devices'.

Thanks Breanna! Once again you have taught me something new (which is not unusual; you're definitely the expert here.)

: :worshippy: I'd read Heike Bean's chapter on them and had made a set for lunging Kody this spring to give his topline some work when the ground was still too bad to drive him but I hadn't used them in harness yet and noticed yours seemed too loose to be creating the frame Gabriel was exhibiting. That left me wondering what purpose they served- and I knew they had one because they were on YOUR harness! LOL.

I'd love to see more pictures of Dan doing dressage if you have them. He's still my favorite of your little ones.

: I got my steel wheels for the Edgeman today and I think between that and the new chain browband and some new clothes for me we'll look really spiffy by next spring if not at the VSE Driving Trials Twice at Happ's the end of September. I will contact Lois about some new marathon pads. Thanks so much for the information!

Leia

 

[rabbitsfizz]

Leia had you thought of using a full Pessoa on Kody??

It engages just about everything - backside especially- and can be adjusted according to your needs.

I alwasy use it to start a young horse as it incorporates most of the harness anyway- yo could not use it as Breanne is using the side reins here, but it is a useful training device.

 

[Buckskin gal]

Thank you for teaching me some really valuable things. It is people like you that keeps me coming back to the LB forum. I too think you say it so well you could write a book!

: Jane, would you explain to us what a full Pessoa is? thanks, Mary

 

[rabbitsfizz]

I'd have to draw a picture to really describe it, Mary- but I will try!!

No, I won't as I have just found a really good picture....

I also use a Chambon/De Gogue combination incorporated into the Pessoa

This sort of "rig" cannot be used on a horse that is not already quite supple- I used it on a Cob gelding who could not engage his rear properly due to a long term minor injury- I had put that right but, in his head, he still hurt- this rig, brought gently into play, engaged his rear end whilst allowing him freedom to move his head up and down but also making it a lot more comfortable for him to have his head where I wanted it- If I could have got on and ridden him I would have done so in a double bridle whilst using light weight spurs to hold him on the bit and engage his rear- the Pessoa /Chambon/ De Gogue did the same thing and best of all it worked!!

As said though you do have to be very, very light with it and take up the adjustments literally one hole I think it was, every three days??

 

[Feather1414]

Hey Breanna

Are you by chance going to be in Ft Collins anytime soon? Or in the future at some point in time. If you are, give me a heads up because I would LOVE to have you down at my house and see Dealer driving. I have tried to send you many a PM, but your inbox is always full.

Gabrielle is looking WONDERFUL though!

 

[Jaxjag2000]

Thank you for sharing!!! I love to see pictures!

 

[MiniHGal]

Thanks everyone....Jane, I have always wanted to see the Pessoa in action with my own eyes--seen it in the magazines...but never tried it. Maybe one of these days...

Oops, outlaw, I missed your post! It was hiding!

Why do you use them instead of say side reins??

Well, generally for the reasons I outlined earlier...they aren't for setting his head so much as preventing him from hollowing out and raising his head too high. He can still stretch out and down very nicely. I have used side reins before (though not on him), and don't like them as much, especially for green horses. They can be more unforgiving, and don't allow the horse as much freedom side-to-side.

I've always wondered how you tell them to take a lead in the vehicle. I seem to recall hearing that the advanced tests that were using canter always had you picking it up in a corner so the horse would take the lead but it seems like you should be able to signal for it yourself. How do you do this? Half-halts? The whip? Both?

Well...I haven't exactly got that figured out quite yet (I am kind of making it up as I go, in a way). With Fascination, she is advanced enough that I ask for a canter from the walk and get it that way. I ask when the outside hind is starting to lift off/move forward, so that she can plant that one and step the inside leg for the canter transition. It usually works. :lol: Because Fascination is sensible enough that we can try out different things, I have been both half halting and using the whip on the inside barrel to get the correct lead. While this also works, I don't like compromising our straightness...but maybe that is a thing you have to do for harness. I have also toyed with the idea of different voice signals for the canter leads, but decided that would get a wee bit confusing. Fascination is getting the idea of flying lead changes, by voice, when I say "Change" and half halt. To initially teach which lead I wanted, we started out with picking up the canter coming out from a corner, so that she was still bent slightly, but we had room. Then we did figure eights, working from canter-trot-canter transitions to flying lead changes (which she does on her own in hazards, so I knew it was possible and easy for her).

This is what I am doing....of course, it will be refined as we work on it more.

Hey Jamie, of course I will let you know!! I haven't been to CO for more than two years, so I am kinda due for another visit. That would be great--awesome fun just hanging out and playing with the horses.

Hmm...I always forget about my PM box...oops!

:

And as a progressional sidenote, Gabriel has moved to no strings...he has been out in a lot of places, so he doesn't really need them any more.