Weaning time

[LostandFound]

Well, it's that time and Larry moved out of his mom's stall and into his own. He seems to think that's just fine, except he wishes he still had someone to kick. But he's got a ball in there that is taking a beating. Unfortunately, mom is not happy with this arrangement. While he is in the barn and she knows he is there, she is alright, but when I take him out, even if he is still in sight, she is getting very upset. It's a little surprising because I do work them up to it. I've been separating them briefly, taking him or her for walks and leaving the other one for a couple weeks and they both seemed fine. And usually at this point the mares are more than happy to get rid of those pesky foals. Any advice on making this easier for her?

 

[chandab]

It's possible it's just a case of her udder being uncomfortable, as they'll fill a bit at weaning; do not express milk, as that will make dry up take longer, do decrease her hard feed to help with dry up, do take her for walks to help any discomfort (can also hold cool compress against udder, but do not rub or stimulate in any way). She'll calm down with time.

 

[LostandFound]

She lost a lot of weight nursing, so I couldn't cut her feed back, I wonder if that will prolong it. She's been moving quite a bit, pacing and bucking and running back and forth. Poor thing has not calmed down as of today but I'll have to see if she enjoys a cool compress.

 

[chandab]

She lost a lot of weight nursing, so I couldn't cut her feed back, I wonder if that will prolong it. She's been moving quite a bit, pacing and bucking and running back and forth. Poor thing has not calmed down as of today but I'll have to see if she enjoys a cool compress.

How much feed is she currently getting? And, what is it? Might be able to reduce some, which would help with dry up without dropping too many calories; if she's no longer needing to make milk, her calorie needs have decreased, so might be able to decrease the feed some to help with dry up without going too far.

 

[LostandFound]

She's on omelene 200, and a non gmo allstock. If I remember right she is supposed to get 2lbs a day of the omelene and she is currently on 6. And free choice hay. The vet did all the math when she was out and I'm not totally sure I'm right. I don't weigh for each feeding, just to get the right amount. I just re-introduced some alfalfa so hopefully I can cut her down to 2 feedings a day. I want to see a lot less of her ribs first.
She is starting to deflate a bit though, her bag doesn't look painful anymore

 

[chandab]

She's on omelene 200, and a non gmo allstock. If I remember right she is supposed to get 2lbs a day of the omelene and she is currently on 6. And free choice hay. The vet did all the math when she was out and I'm not totally sure I'm right. I don't weigh for each feeding, just to get the right amount. I just re-introduced some alfalfa so hopefully I can cut her down to 2 feedings a day. I want to see a lot less of her ribs first.
She is starting to deflate a bit though, her bag doesn't look painful anymore

Personal opinion, I'd never feed Omolene 200 or 300 to any horse, let alone a miniature; too high in carbs, especially starch. Since you can get Purina, look to see if they have Purina Senior Active (blue bag); good amount of calories with a much lower carb load; probably only need 1-2# daily, depending on size of mini. [Like transition to 2lbs of the PSA from the 2lbs of O200, then see if you need to reduce down to 1# daily.]

 

[LostandFound]

So feeds are not my strong point, and I confess I tend towards a minimal amount of grain just out of habit more than anything else. However with these guys I've been feeding a lot more. I've got very limited knowledge, and I don't always understand everything that's on the labels. I'm not saying you are wrong, I'm asking why you are right. If we assume purina knows what they are doing, why would a senior feed be a better choice for lactating and pregnant mares, growing foals, and horses in medium to heavy work?
Also what the heck is in there that the sr feed has a warning about washing your hands after feeding?
The selenium may be an issue also since there is a warning about that...we are not deficient in our area.

 

[chandab]

So feeds are not my strong point, and I confess I tend towards a minimal amount of grain just out of habit more than anything else. However with these guys I've been feeding a lot more. I've got very limited knowledge, and I don't always understand everything that's on the labels. I'm not saying you are wrong, I'm asking why you are right. If we assume purina knows what they are doing, why would a senior feed be a better choice for lactating and pregnant mares, growing foals, and horses in medium to heavy work?
Also what the heck is in there that the sr feed has a warning about washing your hands after feeding?
The selenium may be an issue also since there is a warning about that...we are not deficient in our area.

I don't have access to Purina Senior, so I have not seen the warning on the label, so no idea why it's there. My comment was specifically addressing the mare. Foals/growing horses should be on a growth formula or a ration balancer along with forage, depending on their caloric needs with few exceptions.
Non-structural carbohydrates are sugars and starch; most of the Omolene line has a NSC level of mid 30s; most horses don't need a level over 20 and metabolics need a level under 10-12%. Purina Senior Active is about 16%, IIRC. PSA is a fortified feed with midlevel protein, good calorie count and lower carbs; don't get hung up in the "senior" label, it can be fed to any adult equine that needs the calories it provides. Same with a typical complete senior, do not get hung up on the "senior" part of the name; it's a complete feed designed for any adult equine that can not eat long stem forage for whatever reason (poor dentition, digestive issues that require easy to digest forage/fiber.
If a horse does not need much calories beyond their forage, then a ration balancer is a good choice, as it's concentrated nutrients in a small serving with limited calories per serving.
I'll go with this for now, as I've had a long day; but happy to answer any questions.

 

[LostandFound]

Thanks! So it sounds like you're saying it's just the sugars and starches are too high and pretty much no horse should eat it? I'm not against changing feeds, but I want one feed I can feed to everyone, so if it's not going to work for anyone else, or her when she's in work then it won't work for us.
I have fed a balancer in the past to the big horses, but I've had more trouble keeping the weight on the little guys. Mine don't really just hang around and look cute though. Even the mare is going back to work since she's by herself.
I emailed purina though, it's not on the bag...or maybe it is...I saw the warning on the website. I'd like to know exactly what's going on with that. I wash my hands anyway but that's strange.

 

[Dragon Hill]

I feed all mine a complete senior feed and have for years. Young and old alike. Pregnant, nursing, growing foal. I'm like you, I needed one feed for all my equines. I add mixed alfalfa pellets and other supplements when/if needed .

 

[betwys1]

So feeds are not my strong point, and I confess I tend towards a minimal amount of grain just out of habit more than anything else. However with these guys I've been feeding a lot more. I've got very limited knowledge, and I don't always understand everything that's on the labels. I'm not saying you are wrong, I'm asking why you are right. If we assume purina knows what they are doing, why would a senior feed be a better choice for lactating and pregnant mares, growing foals, and horses in medium to heavy work?
Also what the heck is in there that the sr feed has a warning about washing your hands after feeding?
The selenium may be an issue also since there is a warning about that...we are not deficient in our area.

Purina Senior has Alfalfa, Wheat middlings, Soybean hulls, Ground corn, Cane molasses, Soybean meal, under 10% wt/wt sugar and starch with added organic copper, zinc, selenium etc. at these levels:

• 3.00 PPM iodine
• 0.60 PPM selenium
• 280.00 PPM zinc
• 0.45 % sulfur
• 220.00 PPM iron
• 3500 IU/LB vitamin A

The human danger level for selenium intake is 20 microgram/kilogram of body weight
50 lb of feed would contain about 13 milligram of selenium.
For a 63 kg woman (140 lb) a toxic intake would be 1300 micrograms which is 1.3 milligrams Selenium.
So there is enough to provide toxic symptoms for ten women, if totally absorbed - which seems unlikely.

 

[LostandFound]

Not sure if the selenium warning is for people. And that math is way beyond my skill level. But I could see where that might build up pretty quickly in a lactating mare getting 2-3 times the recommended amount of feed. I don't figure I will hear back from them until monday but I'm curious about what they say.

 

[chandab]

Thanks! So it sounds like you're saying it's just the sugars and starches are too high and pretty much no horse should eat it? I'm not against changing feeds, but I want one feed I can feed to everyone, so if it's not going to work for anyone else, or her when she's in work then it won't work for us.
I have fed a balancer in the past to the big horses, but I've had more trouble keeping the weight on the little guys. Mine don't really just hang around and look cute though. Even the mare is going back to work since she's by herself.
I emailed purina though, it's not on the bag...or maybe it is...I saw the warning on the website. I'd like to know exactly what's going on with that. I wash my hands anyway but that's strange.

Conceivably a good senior could be fed to any age, but a complete senior has a high feeding rate, so may not be appropriate for easier keeping equines, with it's higher feeding rate to meet the needs of all in a group. I have 3 feeds here, as I have 3 different levels of needs with horses ranging from 3 to 30 years old and from 31" tall to 16.2H tall (I have 18 equines). 11 head are on a ration balancer (all younger minis, mine don't do that much), 4 head are on a fortified feed (the regional senior wasn't maintaining their weight, I live in the sticks, so have few choices), and 3 are aged and on a complete senior (2 saddle horses, and the almost 30 year mini stallion).
Since your minis have handled Omolene 200 well, Strategy GX might be a good fit (it's lower than Omolene 200 in carbs, but not as low as either Purina Senior), and it's good for all ages from weaning to senior age, as long as they can still eat long stem hay (when the teeth go, then complete senior becomes more of a necessity).

 

[LostandFound]

Now you've got me thinking. In all my years working at different barns, the horses that looked the best were fed whole oats and the ones that looked the worst were fed strategy. I've actually tried strategy and hated it. I wonder if switching to oats would work for me? Still waiting to hear back from purina, I'm going to try calling them today. But at this point the mare is just screaming nonstop when he goes out without her, and not getting herself too worked up. She can see him the whole time, I'm not sure what the issue is. Bag is shrinking down nicely, she is starting to not look like someone needs to call animal control, and Larry is starting to not be such a little turd

 

[chandab]

Now you've got me thinking. In all my years working at different barns, the horses that looked the best were fed whole oats and the ones that looked the worst were fed strategy. I've actually tried strategy and hated it. I wonder if switching to oats would work for me? Still waiting to hear back from purina, I'm going to try calling them today. But at this point the mare is just screaming nonstop when he goes out without her, and not getting herself too worked up. She can see him the whole time, I'm not sure what the issue is. Bag is shrinking down nicely, she is starting to not look like someone needs to call animal control, and Larry is starting to not be such a little turd

Oats are unfortified and like 50% starch, so would be going backwards from Omolene. A good senior feed would be a better choice than oats, if you aren't stuck on Purina, another brand may have a one and done product that would work for you. I've used Triple Crown Senior for all ages, but it needs to be fed to directions to meet nutrients; I'm not at the moment, as the price went up, and it's not readily available to me.

 

[MaryFlora]

My little herd is different than that of Dragon Hill (no youngsters or pregnant mares) but I feed along identical lines. I use alfalfa pellets along with Purina senior and Heims Senior (milled in MN).

I’ve also fed whole oats and the horses looked and acted great. They received a supplement plus pasture/hay, but as they aged into their late teens went on to Senior.

I tried Triple Crown Senior but, it became increasingly difficult to obtain then just not available here.

Just picked up feed yesterday and I always hold my breath for the total! Prices have gone up quite a bit in the past 18 months!

 

[chandab]

Just picked up feed yesterday and I always hold my breath for the total! Prices have gone up quite a bit in the past 18 months!

It's frightening how much feed has gone up in the last few years, but especially the last year to 18 months.
I did recently find a complete feed for $15/bag, so while it's not fortified enough for the small feed rate the minis require, it'll work in the aging saddle horses' diet, as they'll get several pounds a day to meet their needs (at a price my pocketbook won't scream too loudly over).

 

[LostandFound]

I'm not even worried about the price of feed. But hay? I usually pay $6-7 a bale and I just got a barnful at $13. We had a mild drought this summer and a lot of people are going to be running out this winter.

 

[chandab]

I'm not even worried about the price of feed. But hay? I usually pay $6-7 a bale and I just got a barnful at $13. We had a mild drought this summer and a lot of people are going to be running out this winter.

We've been in some state of drought for 6ish years; our hay has been iffy for much of that time, luckily we put up our own (round bales). During the worst drought year, I did buy some from out of area, in small squares for $12/bale delivered, and they were smaller bales than I usually get locally (I buy small squares for one barn that is hard to access with tractor and round bales).