I am Shocked,

[JWC sr.]

Mona,

you are exactly right from where I sit. My job as president of the group would really become much easier if the changes everyone, including ourselves have identified as needed were at least given some consideration. Maybe this will happen, I hope so for the registry's sake. According to Tom O'Connel a bunch of what we said in our address to them is in the works.

I would love to only market these great little guys and leave the rest up to the registry. Provide some fun venues to be involved in and educate the general public to the joys of these little horses.

But untill all that happens, we will stay involved in the registry as active members making our voice heard whenever we can get an audience with the powers that be. And seek to mold things into a shape that is more acceptable to the majority of the members of the registry.

Everyone has a certain area of concern that is important to them, for some it may be drivng rules, to others it may be the futurity set up, to others it may be absentee voting, to otehrs it may be measuring etc etc. We all will never agree on everything, but I do believe that it is important for everyone to have a voice and to be heard.

It is a very difficult thing that AMHA is trying to do with the set up they have, but I hope they can fiqure a way to be more responsive to the general membership.

Our group in the meantime will not wait on AMHA to solve the problems we have in the marketing and promotion of the American MIniature Horse, we will strive to be active, involved and dedicated to bringing the largest number of people into the breed and provide them activities that are enjoyable and worthwhile. We may not be able to make a difference in the operations set up of AMHA, but we can make a difference in the marketing and promotion area and that is what we are concentrating on. We are betting on it and have put our personal money up to back that effort.

John Cherry

IAMHA

 

[Reble]

Just a thought you mentioned!

6. in the beginning we had members for other states involved and they have dropped out over the course of putting this thing together.

WHY?

:

So true more cash back more cash in. The little farms do not want to pay out any more. We need to make prices more affordable to the smaller farms, that just want to enjoy their Miniature Horses.

My husband and I have already made choices to what shows we show because of politics and money. :Shows even in Ontario, it is who is behind the scenes. Our Opinon.

:

 

[miniwhinny]

I'm still lost as to why you feel you couldn't promote miniature horses under the roof of AMHA. As AMHA committee members aren’t you suppose to be protecting and promoting AMHA?

VERY GOOD POINT. I don't understand this either. If you're willing to put up so much money (which you don't hesitate to tell us about like we're supposed to be impressed or something) for a non-registry, shows, promotion etc - then why don't you put it up to help the AMHA? If you really cared then why not put some of that passion and cash into the AMHA? Seems to me that everytime registries split or are formed when there are existing ones it's out of peoples egos and politics.

I'm also not that impressed with you bragging about how people get to "buy" their way in with gazillion dollar commitments which as I said you seem to enjoy telling us all. That obviously counts me out of the BOD HAHAHAHAHHA. With their $$$$$$$ buy-in do they also get to have the rules their own way too.

Promotiing the mini in anway is applaudable...but please...another "non" registry when we already have two that could work way better with a little help. We already have everything we need. A registry to keep those with under 34's happy and one for them and the slightly biggers.

Just my 2 cents worth. Yup only 2 cents...not $500,000 gazillion dollars :bgrin

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[JWC sr.]

It is really very simple why we choose to work outside the guidelines of AMHA. Within the structure of AMHA you are very encumbered by the set up of the rules and by laws that govern them as a non profit group. We as a small group of people can make decisions faster and more reactive to changing situations in the Industry than they can.

As far as passion is concerned, we do approach these horses with a sense of passion as all of us beleive in the breed itself and think the environment surrounding them can be improved by our actions.

As far as trying to impress you with the contributions everyone in the group has made that is the farthest thing on our minds, but it does indicate how serious we are about our commitment to this breed.

The directors/officers of AMHA are also making major commitments of personal time to help the cause of providing leadership to the registry and some of our members in this group are working diligently in both areas. That is a double whammy as far as other personal commitments to family and the rest of thier lives. I may not agree with what they do on any particular subject, but I do respect the effort they put forth in even being involved.

I hope that whatever comittment you can and or have made to bettering the breed you do with conviction and passion also. If that is only to critque our group and you feel that is the best way to get your thoughts out for all to see, then so be it.

Good Luck and don't hesitate to contact me if you desire anymore iformation,

Another point I forgot, No we do not have everything we need. We need an improved market place for the majority of the industry. We are going to attempt to help that thru our efforts.

Second point the three or four members that left were folks that wanted to start a new registry and when it became evident that was not where the rest of the group wanted to go they stepped out of the group.

 

[rabbitsfizz]

Sorry to drone on and on....and on, BUT you know me- dog + bone etc!!!

This is NOT an International Alliance- it is just not.

Apart from Carina I have heard of ONE person who has heard of it- or are you relying on this board to let Europe and England know? I cannot speak for Australia or NZ as we have not heard form them yet- this will be interesting.

In order for something to be "international" it must be evenhandedly so.

We start off at a disadvantage in that you are interested only in the [American Miniature Horse as opposed to the Miniature Horse, but, OK, I can live with that.

So- what are we being offered, in order that you may claim that this organization is International??

We will get the same number of shows as America- will we??

We will get the same amount of money invested in us as America does will we??

And, since it is not proportional to the number of horses in America, it will not be so divided in Europe, or in Australia or NZ or wherever, for that matter.

Wherever in the world there are Miniature Horses, this society will provide shows, seminars, prizes, etc- will it??

When pigs fly it will- what just as AMHA does???

Drop the "International" bit, it isn't and never will be- or make me eat my words (I can, you know)- go on, surprise me, put some time and effort into making all your members equal.

Start out with postal voting instead of making us wait 20 odd years.

Until I see proof this is just another American society, nothing more, nothing less, for American members.

As to it being a wake up call to the AMHA- if it were to be that then it would be worth the membership fee just for that alone!!!

 

[runaway ranch]

Hmmm.... lots to think about. I'm trying to keep an open mind. Very interesting reading.

 

[JWC sr.]

Below is part of an email we got this morning after the release yesterday in Europe, sorry you were missed though. It was translated in to Dutch and German also just for informations sake.

Also as far as having a ton of things that we can do for the international people, you are right it is somewhat limited. But we do plan of putting on some seminars in Europe maybe as soon as this coming summer and also are very aware of continued problems they have had and are having in the mini Industry.

Personally Cindy and I have had a European representative for a little over 3 years that works co-operatively with us.

Dear John,

The mail was sent to 107 European members. It went to England, France, Germany, Denmark, Sweden, Russia, Spain, Holland, Norway, Belgium. Thusfar still many reaction by phone and mail. Most are positive, many people offer to help us in case it is necessary, so they seem to be happy.

 

[rabbitsfizz]

Seminars we can do very nicely for ourselves, Thank you- how about some big prize shows????

 

[JWC sr.]

Jane,

There are others in the European community that disagree with you and have requested exactly that from our members. So even though you fell you don't need them, we have included them in our agenda and are working out the details to satisfy those that want the information that we can supply.

 

[miniwhinny]

Well, I must say, you do seem to have some pretty good answers to questions people have raised, including my own, more so I'm impressed that you've answered them in such a professional manner. I also understand that everything takes time, including getting overseas shows etc organized.

I wish you luck with this new venture. You seem very commited to making it a success. If what you are planning turns out even half as good as what you are suggesting then how can it not help the miniature horse and more exposure and more "pulling power" may get the desired reults from the exisiting registries too.

Good luck and I'm looking forward to attending (and joining) events here in the Pacific Northwest.

:

 

[Frankie]

4. In the event AMHA fails to continue to establish and maintain itself as a strong viable organization, this group will be prepared to lead the Miniature industry, create an organization/registry with the mission and structure to protect all current investments, and lead the breed without personal bias.

The above statement is what really bothers me.

WHO from your group decides the AMHA is failing in those areas?

And this part at the end,,,,,,,,,,,,,

and lead the breed without personal bias.

Does not fit well with the rest of the statement. Or the rest of your mission.

IMO,,,,,,whoever decides the AMHA is failing,,,,,,may be/ could be making that based on personal bias.

As in,,,,,,,your opinion is different that theirs,,,,,,,,you just don't agree,,,,,,,,,

just like you don't agree with Jane right now.

It all goes back to,,,,,,,,,Who thinks THEY are right.

What makes your group more right?? And by whose standards???

That is politics.

 

[JWC sr.]

Well I woukld think that the question about who decides is pretty clear, our founding members will. Again though hopefully this decision never has to be made as we all hope that AMHA is sucessful for many years to come.

There has always since my family got involved in miniatures ( 19 years ago) been a stigma attached to the activities that were avaible that some folks got special treatment because of who they knew or who they were. All of us have seen this and it is talked about again and again on this forum. With that said I think we all know a part of it is human nature, but as much as possibly we beleive it is healthy to try and promote an active and level playing field for everyone. This will be addressed to our judges when we start to interview them and also will be taken into account by the show review board.

As far as being right, we of course think we know the proper answers to most questions, but that is a matter of opinion for everyone to decide for themselves. We have taken a stand and hopefull clearly stated where we are at. And if needed I hope the parties that disagree can agree to disagree respectfully.

John Cherry

IAMHA

 

[sedeh]

I read this thread last night and again today. I am an AMHA member but mainly because I triple register my mini's and show Pinto. So I'm not emotionally invested in AMHA. I can see both sides of this issue. I have to say when I first read through the letters that IAMHA were sending to AMHA I thought they addressed the problems and possible solutions very well. The only problem I had is that they had a threatening feel to me. Then further on when IAMHA basically said they would step in and pick up the pieces if AMHA fails I really wondered what their real intent was. I'm all for any group that is for promoting miniatures but I don't want them to undermine the current registries. I know that John Cherry has been very active answering these posts and "smoothing" things over......but I sincerely hope that their goal is to promote the mini's and not sabotage AMHA. Only time will tell I'm afraid.

 

[Lonesome Dove]

There's no hidden agenda here. I've known most of the founders, some better than others, for several years. They are all highly respected in the industry. They are people of integrity and want nothing but the best for the miniature horse and those that love them.

 

[skanzler]

Still reading and thinking...... Lots of good questions and alot alot of great answers. But the bottom line still remains for me. Why if alot of these people are on commitees and on the BOD can they not impliment the changes needed within AMHA without going outside the organization. And why can the money that they are so willing to put up, not be put into the promotion department of AMHA to promote the miniature horse. I just do not understand this portion of it. I also have a question that was never answered in my previous post.

What good will you do the small farms, breeders, trainers etc, by organizing everything in Texas??????? That is not where most of the small breeders etc are. We are located outside the "Big Money State". You are putting on this big paying show in the heart of where all the money is being put up. That to me makes no sense. You are only putting the money back in YOUR pocket. How many of the small farms and breeders can afford to travel to Texas???????? I would think you would explore putting on this type of show in an area most impacted from low turn out and small farms etc. I know that sometimes this becomes a no win situation. As I am sure alot of people will think that their area is the one in need of help. But to put it in your own back yard, looks a little weird to me.... Just my opinion.

I am sorry, but this group just looks to me like another way for the big farms that can and have been asked to participate are the ones that will benefit the most from the Association. When you get done showcasing your horses, what will be left for the rest of us small breeders?????? You all have the big ads in the magazines, four page layouts etc. We can barely afford to put a half page black and white in the World, let alone put alot of extra money into promotions etc.

You keep saying that this will help all people, but I just don't see it............

I guess we will all just have to wait and see........

 

[HGFarm]

Rabbits, I dont think ANY of us knew about this til the first post yesterday and I got my email when I got home from work. And I agree with you in your points.

Sedeh, I agree also with your comments regarding the threatening manner in which things were written. It is in print, and I got the same thing out of it. Even by putting the verbiage in there about AMHA failing is totally inappropriate!! This sounds like 'we are doing this in spite of you, not with or for you'. I find this is another way of continuing the 'scare tactics' and put doubts in people's minds that AMHA will continue on, and WHO is going to join into a breed with this kind of issue in print in public?!!!

I do not see at all how this is going to help the 'small guy' who is the main meat of the registries... I also cannot afford big huge fees for shows in hopes of getting some money back (if possible) or travelling to other states to compete at these shows.

I also dont see how these supershows are going to do anything to promote the breed to folks who dont have Minis? Are they going to be advertised in the cutting horse or warmblood publications?

At this time, I am still sticking to my guns with the statement made regarding why, if folks could invest time and money in something like this, why it couldnt be done through AMHA. And WHY was the AMHA president unaware, as stated earlier, about all the issues that folks were unhappy about?!! Aren't our directors, BOD and reprentatives talking to these issues as they arise? Some of these issues are not new.

 

[skanzler]

OK Mary Lou...... I do use you too...

I love LB, I have sold alot of horse here. This is a invaluable board and I will continue to use it

: Thank you Mary Lou for bringing my feet back to earth :lol:

 

[Magic]

It is really very simple why we choose to work outside the guidelines of AMHA. Within the structure of AMHA you are very encumbered by the set up of the rules and by laws that govern them as a non profit group. We as a small group of people can make decisions faster and more reactive to changing situations in the Industry than they can.

I don't understand just what this is supposed to accomplish. Sure, your group can implement something like measuring changes-- measure at the withers at your "super shows" but what does that do??? I don't see that hastening in a change in the other registries to do the same thing.

And as for the IAMHA shows being held on different weekends than registry shows-- well that is all fine and good, BUT-- most people can only afford to go to a certain number of shows, so they have to pick and choose which shows they will attend. It would make sense that many would choose a "payback" show over a sanctioned, points-only show, which would certainly impact the number of people at the sanctioned shows.

I'm trying to keep an open mind here, but with this group a "for-profit" organization, I fear that it will end up undermining the miniature registries, even if inadvertantly, in order to make money.

 

[Debby - LB]

Coming from a quarter horse background I’m very familiar with both NCHA (national cutting horse association) and NRHA (national reining horse association). Both offer large paybacks, both are very expensive to “playâ€. Those huge payouts come with large entry fees. I know some people who bought a colt, at auction, for around $1,500. That horse went on to place Top Ten in one division for NCHA. He also had a $30,000 trainer bill and show fees in the first 60 days.

AQHA’s (American Quarter Horse Association) boast the largest equine numbers at 3,224,096 they register over 165,000 foals a year yet participation at their shows has been dropping over the years. The answer is two fold. One is the specialized venues is leaching off participants. The other and largest is that it is hard for the average joe to compete and compete successfully against the big names and big money.

AMHA has the same problem in that they are losing their average joes, who are the life blood to any association. Offering big prize money does not help the average joe as big prize money attracts big farms and trainers.

It also frightens me that you wish to see AMHA and AMHR the largest equine registries. With the low prices now I can only image what would happen with over three million AMHA horses.

The other point to make is you would not be offering a specialized venue (i.e. jumping, driving) but rather the entire show list so no matter what weekend you put your super show on you would be competing with other shows. Shows put on by people who also have day jobs and work their butts of for most times no money or fan fare, they do it just because they wish to "promote the breed". If AMHA shows and attendance has dwindled wouldn't the $20,000 added show be a boast to AMHA instead of taking away from their current shows.

I'm still lost as to why you feel you couldn't promote miniature horses under the roof of AMHA. As AMHA committee members aren’t you suppose to be protecting and promoting AMHA?

As far as competition you bet competition is a good thing but how can you compete against the very association you sit on the board???? “New†ideas are seldom new and this one is not either so it is not the formation of it that sits uneasy with me but the formation of it by current (and still acting) AMHA board members. If you are employed with a company and they are not listening to your ideas so you sit up a company that is in direct competition for their employer’s clients (i.e. show attendance) do you think you should be still employed by that company?!? Yes I know that although they worked for AMHA they were not employed by AMHA.

All said I’ll wait and see how this all comes out in the wash.

Insert the Hit the nail on the head emoticon -HERE- ......Well said

 

[rabbitsfizz]

Jane,

There are others in the European community that disagree with you and have requested exactly that from our members. So even though you fell you don't need them, we have included them in our agenda and are working out the details to satisfy those that want the information that we can supply.

But that is ALL you are doing- how about doing what the rest of us want????????

We have had it to the back teeth with seminars- let's have some SHOWS!!!!!!