I am Shocked,

[kaykay]

Jane

Way back in this thread john said they werent ready to tackle overseas stuff yet but that would be in the future.

Its really interesting to me that Tony or Ronnie havent commented on this. Id really like to know their opinion.

Im not for or against this just skeptical due to what is posted here vs what their website says. And Id really like to know if AMHA is in favor of this and willing to work with this group.

Also I guess you are all staying on your committees etc with AMHA?

IMO if you want to make an impact with shows go to the states that barely have any shows. That would have the biggest impact and you wouldnt have to worry about conflicting with rated shows.

ps i just got the email this morning from equitex on this formation but i cant get the attachments to work

 

[HaazeMinis]

I have been silently studying & reading this and other topics brought up here in the last week or so. These are topics that are of great interest to me since I also have AMHA/AMHR horses.

:

I had refrained from posting on the other threads and found it rather ironic that all the sudden this thread came from no where. As if it was planned that way, like a few others have stated earlier.

:

Having a very small farm with under 15 head (including foals) I would very much like to venture out into showing since I feel I do have a few nice individuals here I feel would be competitive, however I have in the past been in the "dog show world" (I used to show Saint Bernards) and know how political showing "can" be and being a very "small fish" in a "BIG" pond...well... lets just say I gave up showing dogs after darn near 4 years after witnessing time and time again (IMHO) that it was WHO was at the lead alot of the time and not the individual animal.

Just so you you all know I am not saying every show is like that but the ones I had been to both as specatator and exhibitor over a 6 year period seems to go that way.Dont get me wrong there were also some very fine idividuals out there showing as well and diserved the win. However, if the animal got to group it appeared if you did not a "well known" handler and your animal carried your small kennel name and bred by your kennel you did not get to far in the "large" bench type shows. There are only two shows that are benched and I will not name which one it was. I feel its the same way in any type of horse showing as well wether the big ones or small ones. There are exceptions to every rule. However, it seems to go that way in alot of cases so that is why I chose to stay out of showing for now anyway.....

So,I am with Fran ( OhHorsePee) can John please explain how this could help us "small farms" to be equal and fair to us?

: I am open to any comments (I have my flame suit on just in case too

: ) from John or anyone one else who is involved with the forming of this "Association" . I know I am not the only one who feels this way because there are quite a few on this very thread who are "little guys" as well.

For now I will just sit back and see what happens with this and this thread has peaked my "interest" in showing again if we do indeed have a chance to get out there among people who may not know enough about miniatures because isnt EDUCATION the key here? :bgrin

If more of the general public were educated about these little ones and realize that the ones that are usually "featured" in the public eye are usually NOT what breeders and show individuals thrive for...then how is the general public supposed to know about them and what they can do...right?

:

Well I guess thats all for now. very interesting!

:

Jeri

 

[rabbitsfizz]

Kay this is supposed to be, and is touted as an INTERNATIONAL society.

If it is not such- and it quote obviously is not since they are not ready to be, please remove the International but from the title.

Do not set up an "international" society that may, or may not, eventually, have some time to give, if we are very, very lucky, to it's international members.

Bet they would have time to tackle accepting International money

 

[HaazeMinis]

Its really interesting to me that Tony or Ronnie havent commented on this. Id really like to know their opinion.

Im not for or against this just skeptical due to what is posted here vs what their website says. And Id really like to know if AMHA is in favor of this and willing to work with this group.

Also I guess you are all staying on your committees etc with AMHA?

IMO if you want to make an impact with shows go to the states that barely have any shows. That would have the biggest impact and you wouldnt have to worry about conflicting with rated shows.

Kay Kay that is exactly what I was wondering too!

: Very interesting!

 

[Debby - LB]

I completely agree with Charlotte and Becky- I find this very deceiving. Why would we pay to show at these shows, etc... when I hear we can't even support the shows that AMHA is currently putting on? If they are barely making it financially, wouldn't I want to continue to support the organization rather than shifting my funding somewhere else? What will AMHA get out of it? Even less attendance at shows and less money- thus possibly causing them to fold.

I also am really concerned about the time spent on this, when the same effort could have been put into some committees with AMHA and AMHR, to improve things, create some futurities and shows like this THERE to support what we already have!!

I don't like this at all, and personally, will not support it.

Seems like a HUGE conflict of interest to me, with folks working with AMHA, but putting together something like this to take more money from an already troubled organization.

But with that said, if for any reason AMHA fails, which I personally don't think it will with a little mangement which some on the BOD are trying to do. We would entertain the possibility of opening a registry or something at that time MAYBE.

I really think this is underhanded and do not see how either registry would benefit whatsoever from this.

I am so troubled by what I am reading here, I can't even really express how I feel, but it makes me ill.

You said this better than I ever could. :aktion033:

I probably should not even elaborate, I don't show, I don't breed much and I can't go to the meetings but I do support AMHA and won't have a horse that is not registered AMHA but I can't help myself I have to say something.... I feel the same way Becky does, backstabbed by the people we trusted to run AMHA. How ironic some of the founders of this group are the same individuals who we members were asking to resign from their offices within AMHA this very year??

I can read between the lines, it's the same as the our way or the highway mentality that was tried in the office. I see an elite group of people who have tried to bring oversize horses into the AMHA registry and could not succeed.

MOST of the ideas this new group has published are very good ones....ones that since most in this group are officers of AMHA could have already been put in place within the AMHA...such a shame, look how far ahead in the promotion of the 34" and under horse we could have been!

If this were a group of people who were not elected and appointed AMHA officers this wouldn't bother me so much, the fact that they are is very offensive. Even if they weren't I would worry about them affecting turn out at the AMHA shows.

This WILL affect the turnout and participation of the AMHA shows, no doubt about it. A lot of people have to pick and choose how and where they show because of financial reasons.

This all makes me very sad. I think that our (AMHA) officers working as a for profit to promote AMHR is ludicrous. I wish you guys had used your resources to form the International American Miniature Horse Association Alliance. If you want to resign from the registry and form your own group to make money by promoting Miniature Horses as a whole that would have been bad enough...jumping ship so to say.... but doing this while inside the orginization is sad, sad

I'm sorry.

 

[Songcatcher]

This is all quite mind boggling to me. I am very small time. I do not currently show, although I hope to some day.

I do not want to make any accusations against anyone, but there seem to be a lot of unanswered questions.

A wise man once said, "When there is a controversy, follow the money."

This is a "business". Who is paying for it? Who is deciding where the shows will be held? Who is hiring the judges for the shows? Who is paying the entry fees for the shows? Who do you suppose will be winning the shows?

The point has been made that it takes a very long time to make any changes in the rules of AMHA. How is this "Alliance" going to speed that up if as members of the BOD and committee members they are unable to do that?

I do not have my mind closed. I just don't understand.

:

 

[miniwhinny]

IAMHA is not a registry nor will it ever be.

IAMHA is not in competition with any registry.

IAMHA is not affiliated or supported by any registry.

IAMHA is not an attempt to destroy the AMHA. If I ever thought that I would be gone immediatly.

IAMHA is a group of individuals who, using their own money, intend to promote the American Miniature Horse and in doing so hopefully will increase the membership of both AMHA and AMHR and increase the market for sales; both mine and yours.

:aktion033: :aktion033: :aktion033: :aktion033: :aktion033: :aktion033: :aktion033: :aktion033:

Time will tell.

My only sadness is that this is another organization for the over-sized mini. I wonder how much promotion will go into letting people know mini's should be SMALL

:

 

[rabbitsfizz]

IAMHA is NOT International, either!!!

So there is one lie to start, how many others are being hidden in the paperwork?????

 

[Yaddax3]

At the moment, IAMHA is just a small group of Texas people who want to do things differently. Their organization doesn't have much clout unless miniature horse enthusiasts such as those on this Forum give it to them.

Their success, or failure, is dependent on the support of others. Anyone can start an organization or a business. As you know, not everything works.

I'm curious to see how this one does. I'd like it to work if only to see if it comes through with that carrot it's dangling -- super shows with huge prize money. As I mentioned in an earlier post, a lot of money goes into showing but there are very few payback shows.

So, please, bring it on. As Cuba Gooding's character said in the "Jerry McGuire" movie, "Show me the money."

 

[HaazeMinis]

This is all quite mind boggling to me. I am very small time. I do not currently show, although I hope to some day.

I do not want to make any accusations against anyone, but there seem to be a lot of unanswered questions.

A wise man once said, "When there is a controversy, follow the money."

This is a "business". Who is paying for it? Who is deciding where the shows will be held? Who is hiring the judges for the shows? Who is paying the entry fees for the shows? Who do you suppose will be winning the shows?

The point has been made that it takes a very long time to make any changes in the rules of AMHA. How is this "Alliance" going to speed that up if as members of the BOD and committee members they are unable to do that?

I do not have my mind closed. I just don't understand.

:

Very good way of putting words down Songcatcher & I am also feel the same way!

Very mind boggling indeed

: !

I agree with your quote!

: very good questions as well! we will have to see if we get the answers to these questions. I also am remaining open minded about this so as to not pass judgement YET.

: It just seems a little "fishy" to me to some extent?

: As a few stated earlier could it be "hidden agendas"

: Just wait and see I guess.

Jeri

 

[maryann]

The timeing of this anouncement is bothering me. !!I really don't know enough about this new

organization to be for or against it at this time. I will just have to follow its progress to see how I feel. However I am sure there was a reason for it to come out now.

There were several threads started on the 17 th and 18th about the possibility of the over 34 inch horses , measuring , voting. etc.

Ronnie was fielding questions and throwing out thoughs on both sides. These threads seemed

very constructive and lead to some very good discussion . So was this announcement meant to enhance the fact that some constructive headway was being made and that someone was doing research to see how the majority felt, or was it to distract from it? If it was the later I am very concerned , that maybe the best interest of the AMHA is not priority for this group. I just don't think it was a coincidence that these controversial topics came to the forum in this order. maryann (just a little fish)

 

[bfogg]

I have been reading this thread with much interest.

The AMHA has known that the members have not been satisified with the way things have been for oh at least 20 years the measuring debate has been going on that long and so has the issue of its members wanting mail in voting.

They have done nothing. Period.

If they had been interested in new ideas and maybe a few changes they would have set up a meeting with these people and said lets see what you've got!! New ideas are wonderful and we are always willing to hear them at (AMHA)

to make our registry better so we welcome people who have a better mousetrap! (So to speak)

But they have not done that!

They have seemed to not even want to hear about or listen to people that held high positions in their own organization!

To me this speaks volumes.

When either a person business or an organization stops listening to its own people it is doomed.

Now whether this imaha is a good thing or not I don't know yet but AMHA should have heard what these people had to say, welcomed them to speak and listened to them!!!!! What would they have to lose???

if they had a good idea it should have been brought to the attention of the members to see what the members thought.

Certainly no harm would have been done would there? Maybe a little time lost hearing what they had to say.

I believe them when they said they don't want to become a new registry, who in their right mind would want to take something like that on?

But I think what they are saying is, look business is stagnant,members are unhappy and leaving at unhealthy rates, wake up and smell the coffee people!.

Competition is a healthy thing its kind of the american way. If a business has that it kind of makes them more

aware of their customers wants and needs. Keeps people on their toes.

As I said lets hear what they have to say. I love the wicket idea.I think the silence from AMHA speaks volumes. And you know it makes me feel sad.

Intelligent discussions and exchanges of ideas keep businesses and clubs vital and healthy.

Now lets hear it from AMHA we know they monitor this forum we know they have heard this discussion and would love to see them be proactive instead of being reactive only once a year at a meeting that most of us cannot afford to atted.

I am hoping this doesn't sound like I am anti AMHA because I can also say a few things about AMHR that doesn't thrill me but this is about the effect on AMHA.

I belive most people at both registerys do their best at times a pretty thankless job. God bless them!

However everyone should be open to new ideas its what keeps us young.

So lets listen, think and watch and then make an informed decision!

JMHO

Bonnie

.

 

[HGFarm]

I am all for change- it is always a good thing. However, if these folks in charge of this are all BOD members for AMHA, and THEY are the ones voting on what goes to the general membership to vote on, why hasnt this been done within the organization of AMHA? If it takes a couple of years, so be it- how long will it take this organization to get on it's feet? Any new 'business' is not an immediate success. In the amount of time it will take to see if this is even going to fly or not, many changes could have been presented through AMHA to implement and improve the exhisting organization.

Yes, I agree that change is needed, but I think there could have been a way to do this from within.

I dont expect to hear a quick or rash comment from AMHA. I am just concerned that these folks who could have been processing changes WITHIN AMHA decided to make a for profit business venture outside of it.

 

[JWC sr.]

Good Morning Folks,

First thing off the bat, let me say that while I understand many of the concerns you are voicing, but many of the questions are answered in the release and other papers we have sent to everyone we had an email address for.

With that said let me try to give it a go though:

1. There is no need to try and follow the money the group has been funded by the founding group and only the founding group at this time. We each made a contribution to get things going. We are not affliated with AMHA or AMHR.

2. All decisions on venues for shows, exhibits, seminars etc will be made by our Board of Directors of which all the founding members are part of.

3. Hopefully we can have some influence on the changing of the rules of AMHA, but there is no guarantee. Mike Want made the statement during our talks with him that he had not been informed of major problems with possible soultions, so one of our goals was to submit what we knew as members and what we had gleaned on boards etc. such as this. I refer you to the letter to him at the beginning of this thread for further information.

4. In fairness to Mike and the rest of the E-Board the way AMHA is set up makes it very slow to make changes, but hopefully the process will start on the things he deems worthy at the next national meeting. Realize these folks are all volunteers and have personall live's also.

5. As far as being international we have had input from a number of European, Autrailalian and other countries. We have addressed a portion of the suggestions to AMHA about the International community and will have a package of benefits to offer international folks when we release that portion of the program later. We plan on continuing to offer seminars and educational venues to folks in other countries in the near future, so yes we will be a group that is concerned about the state of the American Miniature Horse Internationally.

6. Presently all of our members are from Texas, but in the beginning we had members for other states involved and they have dropped out over the course of putting this thing together. It has been and will be expensive to pull off what we are planning. We may add several more founding members to the group , if this happens then it is possible that they may cme from other areas of the country. The financial commitment is pretty steep and we are interviewing potential members as we speak.

7. The benefits for a small farm are pretty apparent to me, we are striving to bring new people into the industry, additionally we want to create a buzz in the mini community that should help implement change that everyone has talked about here and elsewhere non-stop for months on end. That coupled with the educational oppurtunites we are planning should be fun for everyone involved.

8. We are doing everything possible to keep from conflicting with any AMHA or AMHR shows, it is important that the local clubs do not have to compete with us on any given weekend. That is one of the challenges of the committee we have assigned to find venues for our shows without local conflict. That is a daunting task in itself, of finding a venue and then making sure of the schedule for other events surrounding that venues and the dates that are avalible.

9 Last but not least we do not lie or have any hidden agendas, our complete mission is very clearly laid out in our Mission Statement, Letter to AMHA, and Our Planned agenda. Those things coupled with the other things we have planned are and will continue to be as transparent as is possible.

Enough for now.

John Cherry

IAMHA

 

[Lisa-Ruff N Tuff Minis]

I keep hearing people say they feel stabbed in the back and I of course am no one to say not to feel that way.

I am curious though.. how many of those still feel stabbed in the back by ALL the members who were involved in AMHA's last fiasco? The selling/renting of the registry and data base programs to register other livestock like llammas and horses overseas?

I forgot now the name of that one but that was the one that really helped with the financial issues starting and brought up a huge shake up in AMHA and members gave large sums of money to AMHA to keep it going.

Seems to me some names I saw on that paperwork(papers filed in TX to become a corp and the board members) are still looked up to members of AMHA

So my point in bringing that up is obviously many feel it was/is possible to do both or have tried to do both

I am just wondering why they are so sure in this case it isnt possible for these people to do both ?

I hear many saying the timing is bothering them I am just trying to understand what is wrong with the timing? are you upset you werent told from the first conception of the idea?

I would think with the AMHA meeting coming up in Vegas the timing is great to get the word out there and be able to discuss it with everyone including those on the board starting this and those that aren't

Bad timing to me would be AFTER that meeting but that is just me.. again just trying to really understand the oposition to all of this

Jane I am sure like he said they have talked to others in the international community. I realize they didnt talk to you but that doesnt mean they are lying and havent talked to anyone right? There are many members of the international community out there and that is in large part to the marketing of AMHA I will surely give credit where credit is due and they have done a wonderful job at that

Of course this venture will make them some money if it goes as planned. I am not sure I see anything wrong with that. I can think of many past and present that were able to make HUGE profits off of there position and hard work in AMHA and AMHR being on the exec BOD has its benifits and the best one is getting you out there , your farm name known and heard all the time not to mention many times being the hero riding up on the white horse which is all very good marketing for there own personal farms.

That is just one of the perks

Not sure if that makes sense totally made sense in my head but not so much in print

:

 

[Frankie]

Well, it has taken me two days to read this, then read this again and then try to understand completely.

My thought on it,

I hate political,,,,,,can't stand political,,,,,,,,,,,,and to me it all comes down to politics, yet again. Period. All I have read here and in emails,,,,,,this too is about a whole lot of politics.

That is just my opinion.

I don't want to be envolved in politics, just want to enjoy my horse and showing them if I so choose to do so.

The hardest part about all the political bull crud, is trying to stay away from it, I work for my clubs,,,,,and try to work hard, but to do so, I need to avoid the other crud to have a good time.

:

I am a very small farm. 10 horses right now.

I have NEVER felt small, or been treated small by either AMHA, AMHR or any club I belong to.

In most, by far, because I do not have a small mouth.

:

I will continue to read and follow this, from all sources,,,,,,,,but for now,,,I have enough Presidents to keep up with.

 

[*minis*]

5. As far as being international we have had input from a number of European, Autrailalian and other countries. We have addressed a portion of the suggestions to AMHA about the International community and will have a package of benefits to offer international folks when we release that portion of the program later. We plan on continuing to offer seminars and educational venues to folks in other countries in the near future, so yes we will be a group that is concerned about the state of the American Miniature Horse Internationally.

Sorry to say that, but I find it a bit worrying that you seem to think that seminars and educational venues are all that those outside of the US need.

: Any chance you would disclose who of the international community you did in fact talk to? The international AMHA directors or just random people? Just wondering.

Thanks

Carina

 

[sdmini]

Coming from a quarter horse background I’m very familiar with both NCHA (national cutting horse association) and NRHA (national reining horse association). Both offer large paybacks, both are very expensive to “playâ€. Those huge payouts come with large entry fees. I know some people who bought a colt, at auction, for around $1,500. That horse went on to place Top Ten in one division for NCHA. He also had a $30,000 trainer bill and show fees in the first 60 days.

AQHA’s (American Quarter Horse Association) boast the largest equine numbers at 3,224,096 they register over 165,000 foals a year yet participation at their shows has been dropping over the years. The answer is two fold. One is the specialized venues is leaching off participants. The other and largest is that it is hard for the average joe to compete and compete successfully against the big names and big money.

AMHA has the same problem in that they are losing their average joes, who are the life blood to any association. Offering big prize money does not help the average joe as big prize money attracts big farms and trainers.

It also frightens me that you wish to see AMHA and AMHR the largest equine registries. With the low prices now I can only image what would happen with over three million AMHA horses.

The other point to make is you would not be offering a specialized venue (i.e. jumping, driving) but rather the entire show list so no matter what weekend you put your super show on you would be competing with other shows. Shows put on by people who also have day jobs and work their butts of for most times no money or fan fare, they do it just because they wish to "promote the breed". If AMHA shows and attendance has dwindled wouldn't the $20,000 added show be a boast to AMHA instead of taking away from their current shows.

I'm still lost as to why you feel you couldn't promote miniature horses under the roof of AMHA. As AMHA committee members aren’t you suppose to be protecting and promoting AMHA?

As far as competition you bet competition is a good thing but how can you compete against the very association you sit on the board???? “New†ideas are seldom new and this one is not either so it is not the formation of it that sits uneasy with me but the formation of it by current (and still acting) AMHA board members. If you are employed with a company and they are not listening to your ideas so you sit up a company that is in direct competition for their employer’s clients (i.e. show attendance) do you think you should be still employed by that company?!? Yes I know that although they worked for AMHA they were not employed by AMHA.

All said I’ll wait and see how this all comes out in the wash.

 

[Mona]

My original thoughts on this new group were that is was formed so that if AMHA caves in, there will be something in place to "pick up the pieces". I thought it was good to be thinking ahead. I am not opposed to this new group, but the more I think about it, the more I wonder about it.

Many here are saying, "Well at least they are listening to us, and trying to do something for us", but even that is not helping us with our current beefs and concerns with our current registries. We need the CURRENT registries to address our problems and work hard at rectifying them. This new group has listened to us...has heard us, but it won't change the way things are run in AMHA and AMHR. This new group will not benefit us as far as giving members what they want in their current registries.

We cannot register our horses with the new group...they say that is the job of the registries(which is true). They are basically going to offer promotion of the breed, which is wonderful, but to think they care enough to address issues with the registry(ies), that still will do us no good when it comes to our gripes with the current registries. What is needed more, is to have our current registries work this hard at giving their members what they want and trying to work towards that.

I am not agaisnt this, and welcome it if it will give people more opportunity to get out and enjoy their horses. All I am saying is that as good as it sounds, it is not going to solve any of our current problems with our current reg. organizations.

 

[ClickMini]

I can't really see where this is a bad idea, from what has been presented to us. From the moment I stepped into the Miniature Horse industry, I could not see why the little ones were not actively being promoted to people involved in other breeds. There has been a little bit of advancement on this front but there is still a huge gaping opportunity, in my opinion. I applaud everyone who is innovative and forward thinking, as ultimately it can benefit us all.

I come to miniatures from the big horses. I have been involved in many aspects of sport horse activity including hunter/jumper, dressage, and Thoroughbred racing. Many of the big horse sports have "marketing" organizations. Thoroughbred racing has the NTRA (National Thoroughbred Racing Association) and the TOBA (Thoroughbred Owners and Breeders Association) for example. That does not take away from the Jockey Club, which registers the horses, tracks performance, and is the prime governance entity for the breed. I know that cutting and reining people have opportunity to earn big money through their own associations, which are related to but not part of the AQHA and APHA. Another example is the American Hunter-Jumper Foundation. These organizations were formed by prominent industry leaders whose livelihoods and investments were reliant on the growth and success of their breed and/or sport.

How does this benefit the small breeder or exhibitor? The stated charter to educate members and the public, for one thing. If this organization sponsors clinics and seminars across the USA and around the world, and provides educational material from the web site, this is a great thing. Perhaps the educational portion will include information about how to market to potential overseas clients, or how to navigate the paperwork maze when exporting a live animal. Quarantine and veterinary information, preparing for shipment, links to shippers, that sort of thing.

I am not too surprised that this kind of organization would take root from a single area. Many of the largest farms and trainers are located in that region. I would expect that a similar organization for Thoroughbred racing would develop in the bluegrass region of Kentucky or possibly Ocala, FL; that is where the people with the most at stake reside, and being geographically adjacent would help facilitate organization, discussion, etc.

I believe the Super Shows have a ton of potential, particularly if the organization looks outside of the current class list to promote further performance classes with our small equines. Look to areas such as freestyle dressage to music, dog agility and canine freestyle, Parelli tournaments, arena driving trials, and that sort of thing for inspiration. All over the world with several species, people are having fun with their animals, and that is big business!

I hope this organization reaches its potential and goals. I certainly do support the idea.