AMHA new Halter Stock Horse Division!

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nighttrain

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I am very excited about this division.

My horses are triple registered, AMHA, AMHR, and PtHA. Up to now I have only shown in some R and Pinto shows.

I prefer the stock type horse, so naturally I didn't try to go to shows where the slim, Arabian type horse was the norm.

I came out of the quarter horse/paint/pinto world to the mini world so naturally I would like a horse with more substance.

Nothing wrong with the other types, I just happen to like the stock type.

I will definitely reconsider my stance as far as the shows I go to.

I am very glad that this decision was made.

Thank you to all the people who worked to make this a reality.

Coooper  GB  sms 2013.jpg
 

HGFarm

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Thank you so much for the updates and info!!

I am very happy to see classes offered for what MOST of the Miniatures horses reflect and what would be a halter standard for a good performance horse. (To me there should not be any difference, as correct and desired conformation SHOULD be able to perform as well, but alas we have seen the division here in the Miniatures)
 

bumfuzzled

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This is very interesting!

A quick perusal of the 2014 AMHA rule book shows that the BOD has acted contrary to the bylaws to enact this new "division"......

While there seem to be a number of forum members here EXCITED that their horses might be able to show in this new "division" there are also a number of forum members who feel that this new "division" would be just that, a division of AMHA. But either way it appears to be either white wash for a few with an agenda or just a poor attempt to sell an agenda under the guise of desperation to generate income in order to not have to "starts slicing off chunks of meat".

This is being brought to the attention of the membership by the same AMHA member who chaired the LONG RANGE PLANNING COMMITTEE but did no budget or fiscal planning in that capacity (even though he held the position of Treasurer also). The
Stock Horse Division is being sold to the membership as a way to make a flailing horse association viable again in the same way that President Obama is white washing his health care plan to the American public. BAIT and SWITCH.

AMHA makes the majority of it's income on membership and registration. NOT ON THE OFFICE FEES generated by entering horses in horse shows. Notice that they constantly cite numbers of horses at a horse show as some testament to the associations viability (many think these numbers are lies). While this may tell us a horse show was a success the truth is the income at a horse show is based on numbers of entries not numbers of horses as some performance horses enter as many as twenty classes and the class entries equate to the income and viability of the show.

Let's play Devil's advocate and say that in the 67 remaining AMHA shows this year there are 10 entries in each of the 6 classes (doubtful), there will be 4020 entries at an office fee paid to AMHA of $7.00 (not sure since it keeps changing). This would equate to $28,140.00. Now let's be realistic and cut this figure to 25% of that (very optomistic still) we get $7035.00. How is this going to keep AMHA from running "out of fat to cut, and starts slicing off chunks of meat"?

The "division" is being compared to the Performance Committee's plan to rewrite the Driving classes and add the Classic Division with utter disregard for the real Money Maker, the Stakes and Futurity. When the Stakes and Futurity were being run correctly they had the potential to creat a reason for members to breed and register more horses. The Classic Pleasure division just created more entries NOT MORE INCOME for AMHA (as can be evidenced by their current financial condition).

It would be advisable that the member (reading this post) go to the AMHA website and read the financials. While they are obscured by agenda one can still see the state of AMHA and where their Income comes from as well as where their greatest expense is (shows).

AMHA has not had a business plan, a Long Range Plan since McPherson was Executive Director, when there there was a plan to INCREASE Income. While it was not within the AMHA Bylaws it was a plan. Proactive instead of behind the Eight Ball as we have been ever since. Besides we haven't followed our bylaws since then anyways............

Read Franks email below and PAY ATTENTION to what he actually says.

[SIZE=14pt]Stock Type Division Background Information[/SIZE]

[SIZE=11pt]By Chairman- Stock Type Division-Frank Lupton[/SIZE]

[SIZE=14pt] [/SIZE]

The majority of equine registries have come through the recession in financially worse shape than they were in a few years ago. We see this demonstrated in various ways from higher fees to less expensive awards at shows. The simple fact is that to keep the doors open, cuts have been made. At some point, an organization runs out of fat to cut, and starts slicing off chunks of meat. At this point there are only two choices. An organization can cut until it no longer exists, or it can find new sources of revenue. Within the AMHA, we have chosen to be proactive in our efforts to position our organization for future growth and viability.

Not so many years ago, the members of our Performance Committee and our Board of Directors realized that, even with the single pleasure and country pleasure driving divisions, we were leaving out the biggest segment of members interested in driving.

As a result of the committee's efforts, effective January 1, 2010, Classic Pleasure Driving became a reality and instantly boosted participation at shows. If you look at pages 109 and 110 of the 2014 rule book, you will note that approximately one and one half pages are devoted to providing the necessary information so both participants and judges can understand the division requirements. Similar space is given to the country and single pleasure divisions. In each case there is a sketch of how the horse should look along with word descriptions of how it should move and where its weight should be borne. Classic pleasure driving has been a boon to local, regional and even the World Show in terms of participation and income generation. In short, it was a very good idea.

If we are lucky, and or smart, in life, we pay attention when something does well and try to learn from it. Realizing the AMHA was approaching a point where budget cuts were going to be ever more painful for the membership, a presentation was made to the Finance Committee about a new halter division for shows. Pretty much the same set of facts held true for halter as were in place for driving. We were leaving out a huge segment of our horses. A simple check of historical data showed that most of our performance horses did not show in halter. Well, that's not a surprise; they are bred and built to do something different than those horses solely bred for halter. If their only choice was to be judged against our standard of perfection, they would choose to pass up showing in halter. This is exactly the same situation that existed in driving before classic was introduced. If the classic type horses' only choice was to be judged against the single or country pleasure standards, they would not participate. Simply put, classic horses are a type of their own and until we as an association recognized that, we, and they, were missing out.

The idea of a Stock Type division as a proposal was passed by the Finance Committee and then it went to the Board of Directors. It was passed by the Board and went to the membership. It was passed by the membership and a committee was formed to supply the necessary information for shows, exhibitors and judges to use with a new division. Part of this information is a Standard of Conformation and Movement for the Stock Type Division. This is a simple document that tells exhibitors and judges what to look for in the class. It is not a standard of perfection for a breed. Do not confuse the two. The AMHA's standard of perfection is still the only standard of perfection in use by the organization and the Stock Type Division will not change that. When the Stock Type committee finished working on the written standard, the drawing, and the other parameters of the division, the material was again presented to the Board and again passed without dissent. The plan is to have everything ready for the membership to vote on at the next annual meeting. At that point, if it so chooses, the Board can pass a standing rule to make the classes rated and pointed for the 2015 year.

The Stock Type Division is a chance for the AMHA to take a significant leap forward in terms of the future. This division will help local shows draw more participants, just as it will help the shows AMHA puts on. By getting more people involved in showing, the market for Miniature horses will, over time, stabilize and become stronger.

Given the benefits of this opportunity, I urge all who are able to try showing some Stock Types this year and by all means bring them to 2014 World. This is a chance to be part of something new and exciting. Together, let's begin building this new avenue to promote and advance the AMHA.
 
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drivinghoss

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I find it very interesting that this is seen as a savior to AMHA's financial problems.

First of all, only 10% of the AMHA members show their horses. (that was told to me by a director) How sad this is because many members do not go see the best of best at our shows. Furthermore there are lots of people out there breeding and flooding the market with pet quality horses.

Secondly it appears that the BOD can make decisions that effects the financial well-being of the club. Since this is possible why would they not re-instate hardshipping of any horse under 34". This was a cash cow for the registry. And it brought more people to the Association.

I see this as a slap in the face of many breeders who have selectively bred horses to better the registry.
 

Field-of-Dreams

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I find it very interesting that this is seen as a savior to AMHA's financial problems.

First of all, only 10% of the AMHA members show their horses. (that was told to me by a director) How sad this is because many members do not go see the best of best at our shows. Furthermore there are lots of people out there breeding and flooding the market with pet quality horses.

Secondly it appears that the BOD can make decisions that effects the financial well-being of the club. Since this is possible why would they not re-instate hardshipping of any horse under 34". This was a cash cow for the registry. And it brought more people to the Association.

I see this as a slap in the face of many breeders who have selectively bred horses to better the registry.
I don't know if that "10% show" is correct. I would think it's more.

I also feel that the people "breeding and flooding the market with pet quality horses." probably aren't AMHA (or AMHR) members as much as you'd think. It COSTS to register horses, it COSTS to be a member and it COSTS to even send in a stallion report. Something these pet breeders really aren't going to do. Yes, many of our members who don't show are breeding, but they aren't deliberately breeding pets, they are trying to better the breed.

TOTALLY agree on the hardship issue. They should have never closed it. If anything, at least let in the papered AMHR horses that qualify.

I do like this new section for the Stock Type and hope it does well. I wish AMHR had something like it, my older guy would fit the bill quite well. I know they have the draft classes, but that's another whole ballgame with the necessity of getting all that driving gear, cart and the white drafter headstall, plus the braiding and ribbons and such. A stock halter is more easily acquired and carted around.
 

bumfuzzled

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I find it very interesting that this is seen as a savior to AMHA's financial problems.
It's ridiculous that the AMHA elected officials, BOD, can have the wool pulled over their eyes so easily and a travesty that the "wool pullers" get away with it.

First of all, only 10% of the AMHA members show their horses. (that was told to me by a director) How sad this is because many members do not go see the best of best at our shows.
Let's do the numbers..............the AMHA purports to have over 10,000 members (evidenced numerous places such as the Texas Event Grant application). 10 percent of that is 1000. To come up with an estimate let's say that the average owner shows 5 shows and that average owner takes 2 horses to a show. We are lucky to see 100 horses at a show. So 68 2014 local shows divided by 5 is 13.6 times 50 equals 680. I would venture to say 1000 members showing is a very close number when you add youth and spouses.
 

Riverrose28

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I don't know about the 10% showing, we used to show and did very well, even bred a Champion ourselves, but that was then and this is now. The miniature horse is becoming a breed, and not what it used to be, so many that are or were breeding the older type mini are no longer showing or even breeding, we aren't. If you ask me IMO if Mr. Boone took Buckaroo into the show ring this year he would get the gate, and then be turned into a cull,as would all of Mr. Williams Dell Tera horses as those horses are no longer representative of our breed. Yes the halter horse has evolved and some are left out of the show arena because of it. So this is my question, and it doesn't effect us as we are done, but, since this is a trail for 2014 why are some people opposed to it? Don't you think it may bring some back into showing and maybe some new folks, about the money they may bring in when they also cross enter classes that we all know the trainers horses are going to win, but may try anyhow. Why the opposition? Why does it matter to you?
 

JMS Miniatures

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"I do like this new section for the Stock Type and hope it does well. I wish AMHR had something like it, my older guy would fit the bill quite well. I know they have the draft classes, but that's another whole ballgame with the necessity of getting all that driving gear, cart and the white drafter headstall, plus the braiding and ribbons and such. A stock halter is more easily acquired and carted around."

I see sometime in the future AMHR will come up with a stock type division but I don't see it in the near future. I agree it would bring in more horses then your draft division would and I'm sure most of your horses that would show in the stock type halter class would also show in performance. But I do see we will have a open halter division, a stock type division, and a draft type division. The draft driving classes themselves are getting big and its thanks to the interest of the draft halter class and making it a requirement to show in a draft driving class. But its going to keep those classes small because of the braids, the type of halter, the extra cart and extra harness.

Both of our organizations have too keep the members interested in showing. In AMHR back in 2007 or 2008 they came up with the Western Country Pleasure now its as big as the Country Pleasure class. In AMHA they created a similar concept and created the Classic Driving which also appears to be just as popular as your Country. Two years ago AMHR came up with the Draft Halter type and yes entries are small but like I said before the requirements for this class is going to keep numbers down but you draft division is strong. Now AMHA has created the stock division. It's a shame people will always be against something new before it has begun and experience will show most of the time these classes become a positive experience. This year AMHR is trying to introduced the Carriage division that ASPC currently has and I hope that it will bring in the numbers.
 
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bumfuzzled

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Secondly it appears that the BOD can make decisions that effects the financial well-being of the club. Since this is possible why would they not re-instate hardshipping of any horse under 34". This was a cash cow for the registry. And it brought more people to the Association.

I see this as a slap in the face of many breeders who have selectively bred horses to better the registry.
History tells us that the members driving this association (elected or not) are agenda driven. While they purport to having the interest of the members in mind they make decisions based on their feelings or needs (kind of like politicians). There have been numerous experts hired and polled by AMHA in the past and none of their advise has been heeded and their ideas rarely ever even make it to the membership. The division of the AMHA membership (close registry vs hardship, increase heights for breeding purposes vs 34" only, etc.) is the reason that they have control instead of the membership (witness the passing of numerous standing rules in direct conflict of the bylaws). We all ned to come together and make these hard decisions instead of thinking with our feelings. Either of these two options could help resurrect this assocation!

Look at the number of good hearted members who invested liberal amounts of money and time in AMHA only to have been RUN OFF.......members like Don Burdette, Gary Barnes (just to name two in the last couple of years). There have been more in the past but it's doubtful there will be more in the future, the pool is becoming very small!

AMHA needs another product to sell.

Not dilution of it's existing product.

Walmart would not be Walmart with only one product.

A Long Range Plan needs to be set and it should be a first priority, any financial counselor will tell you this. Then advertising budgets and advertising plans need to be set in motion (and let's try to sell Mini's to horse/ag people not Grand Parents). Decisions need to be made that may not please everyone but without an increase in product (product right now is only membership and registration) of some kind and an increase in customer base to go along with it AMHA will "start cutting off chunks of meat" as Frank Lutpon said. AMHA has run off most of it's vendors in the last 10 years. The first to go had no real vested interest, sign makers, clothing, bling bling girly stuff, they just went elsewhere. Second to go were the horse supply vendors, they just restructured or closed their doors (Houghton carts, Supreme Equine, Kee-Port, Etc.). Next to go the breeders like Martha Hickham, Ray Zoercher, Don Burdette, Tony Pierce and many more. So now we are running off the trainers, Tiffany Porter, Chris Colao, Patty Cloke, Sherry Ridell, and many more. Pretty soon the industry will not be in place no matter what AMHA does.

Can't any other members see this?
 
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JMS Miniatures

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I totally see your point and I think both registries need to come up with a plan on how its going to keep it's current members, how its going to bring in new ones, how to get members update their paperwork, and how are you going to get members to show. Registrations yes foals need to be registered, but at the same time I don't want the market to be over populated with unwanted foals either. Bring in new members will equal more horses sold.

Why should I join AMHA? Why should I join AMHR? The reason I continue to be involved with AMHR is because they keep coming up with new ideas and keep me interested in showing. AMHA so far hasn't done that. The only reason I would consider showing in AMHA is because the awards are nicer, there are smaller class size compared to AMHR but its more expensive. Almost did it last year but held off, Honestly not sure if I will ever show in AMHA. With the registry closed it's even harder to try when I already have a good AMHR program going.
 

BSharpRanch

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I am thinking courteous, knowledgable people on the phones too. Will update with a new thread when I get it worked out. Suffice it to say that I was not treated very professionally when I asked a world show/rule question, in fact treated a bit like they thought I was stupid and without a clue. Sorry, been in customer service most of my life and that is NOT how you keep customers.
 

SampleMM

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Chiming in to say that AMHA has always been extremely professional with me when I have called. The other association, well let's just say that's a different story. Personally, I wish that AMHA and AMHR could join forces somehow. In this economy, it is too expensive for many people to keep up memberships in two associations. Not to mention the paperwork costs associated with belonging to two different associations. Do I think having this new stock horse division will do much for AMHA--no. I think it will give people with old fashioned horses the idea that they have a chance of winning when in reality it will be the horses that have already done a good deal of winning that will go in those classes and clean house. That's my opinion anyways.
 

Debby - LB

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that's a good idea Deb! in reality it would never happen but think about it you guys! that really is a good idea for all the reasons listed plus more.

I'm not completely sold on this new division. I do understand it better now and I do see the interest in it, LOVE seeing how excited some are to know they will have a place to compete with the horse they have. I sincerely hope it flies and that more people will consistently show because of it. My mind just keeps coming back to the word "Division". It just seems weird to me.... it's like if we can't compete with what is winning in the ring now let's write up a new standard and open a new division.

I look back in all my old books now and then and the quality and conformation improvement in the last 10 years alone is amazing. It's easy to see though by looking at all the photos now how we have strayed from the standard of perfection. I'm not sure how that happened, I'm doubly not sure how making up another one now will be a lasting improvement for the registry??

It seems to me like if the AMHA needed a new division it should have been for the finer boned, leggy, more extreme looking horses...since many of them really don't fit the written standard of perfection.

I don't know.. to me it's like defining type now when the Miniature Horse is not yet recognized as a breed is a step backwards.. like closing the registry I don't see that either. This is all just my opinion, I don't mean to step on anyone's toes.
 
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