I am Shocked,

[SunQuest]

John and all with IMHA,

Thank you for putting together a plan that has both the problems and solutions addressed. I can tell that much time and thought has been put forth on this endever.

But, like many others I am skeptical as to what is going on here. There are good points raised on both sides of this issue, and I am not sure where I stand on it.

But, I will say that all of the activities you have planned are in areas where shows and such are very prevalent. These areas are already well represented for the most part.

I will ask a question that has been asked on this thread before. What about those in the areas where there is no representation from either registery? Some of these areas have huge big horse populations and marketing in those areas is what is really needed. Just look at my state for an example of this. I live in Boise, Idaho. This is the 3rd largest city population wise in the NW with only Seattle and Portland being larger, but yet there is very little to no activity here from AMHR or AMHA (I will say that I feel I have heard more from AMHR than AMHA in my area). In fact, one of our neighboring cities (Nampa) has a facility called the "Idaho Horse Park" or "Idaho Center" http://www.idahohorsepark.com/Tour.htm that is or has been built to get large scale horse venues here to the state and even has a veterinary clinic, horse/feed supply store, barns, parking and hotels to accomodate those with horses. Yet where is the representation at this facility for the miniature breeds?

I know, people here have to do the work to promote the breed which various individuals and groups have tried to do for years and still are working on, but areas like this could use some help and are ripe for the pickings from those that have been successful in doing so. Putting on big name events in this area would do nothing but promote the breed, yet there are so few people here doing this that finding enough volunteers to host a show is difficult at best. (I am not placing blame for the lack of promotion here in our area on others, but rather pointing out that mentoring in areas like ours would do nothing but help the market as a whole.)

IMO, If the registeries want growth, then they need to target areas to promote where there is room for that growth as well as maintain the interest in areas that are saturated.

So I am not going to form an opinion at this point. I can clearly see both sides of the issue, and what IMHA does will prove their intent in the long term.

And as I final note, I was one of the individuals that actually paid to get a copy of the paperwork from the state of TX to see who were on the BOD of GLM which was going to use AMHA's computers to offer services to other registeries. And yep, at the time I shared that paper with anyone who was interested in seeing names and I still have a copy of the Articles of Organization for a limited Liability Company. And like others I have been around to see other scandels in AMHA, and due to this, my trust is severly lacking. I feel that questioning the motives of those who serve AMHA and those who are founding IMHA is a VERY healthy thing given the track record of the past.

Edited to add.... I am glad to see that none of the BOD of IMHA was listed as part of the situation with that occured when GLM was created. That does make me trust them slightly more....

 

[OhHorsePee]

7. The benefits for a small farm are pretty apparent to me, we are striving to bring new people into the industry, additionally we want to create a buzz in the mini community that should help implement change that everyone has talked about here and elsewhere non-stop for months on end. That coupled with the educational oppurtunites we are planning should be fun for everyone involved.

I'm sorry, this does not explain or demonstrate how this up and coming organization will benefit a small farm. Please do not dance around the question. You are in Texas and this organization are all Texans if I am understanding it right. Not that I have anything against Texans!!! Bringing in new people is a nice idea, but how will those people know that these small farms are out there? Wont these same people that you will be marketing to/educating and promoting to only be seeing the faces and names of you and your constituents? It's almost as if you will be marketing your own farms so how will this help us? You have used your own monetary means but you also get that as a write off.

As far as taking out the politics in the show ring, NOT GONNA HAPPEN! Unless you make people show with paper bags over their heads and wear the same style and color of jackets it will go on as it has. Just life. Just sucks.

Fran

 

[Joanne]

Here we go again!

It is certainly disconcerting that there are individuals within the AMHA official capacity that are discussing the demise of the organization, rather than how to avoid that possibility. Especially as these are people that were voted in by us as members to serve FOR the AMHA. Unfortunately we have seen this in politics, businesses, and clubs, so this is nothing new. The American Miniature Horse Association and Registry has had to overcome numerous problems over its history. Without a doubt 2006 was a rocky one.

As Jane from “across the pond†mentioned, this is certainly NOT an “INTERNATIONAL†organization.

I am all for promoting miniature horses. I too think that the prices have fallen too low for the quality horses that are being produced. We must all do our share to promote them. As we all know, each time a person sees our minis, we have the opportunity to inform others about the breed. We have used our minis in 4 H programs, in local parades, and local horse shows, to the delight of the audiences. There is no question that promoting miniature horses could be improved.

Ultimately there will need to be financing to keep this new group alive. They can keep it going with seed money for a while, but eventually there will need to be a great deal of financial aid to keep it afloat.

I am all for the democracy of free speech to inform. I do believe, however, that my own hard earned money must support the two legitimate organizations that have registries, and are already internationally recognized.

Over the last almost ten years LB has done a great deal to promote miniature horses over the internet, both nationally and internationally. I commend the work they have done.

 

[rabbitsfizz]

Actually, Yes, you are absolutely right there- I have found the people I shall work with in the future on here, nothing to do with ANY ads, pictures or hard sell- just nice people who have allowed us all to see their horses in winter, summer sickness and in health.

Who have proven themselves trustworthy and good, honest horse lovers.

You cannot buy that sort of "publicity"!!!!

 

[JWC sr.]

Only time will tell if we can be sucessful with the plans we have made. And with that said the majority of you have valid points of view, with some reasoning behind them, For that input I thank you. It is being noted and hopefully will influence the places and venues that we visit in the coming years.

I already have two venues that have been suggestted to me directly from people on this board. Those are being referred to the committee in charge of that end of things. We do not know your areas and need this type input to make good decisions.

I am not going to quible over the portion of the name "International" that is what we decided on and I hope to make it fit, even if some folks do not want to be involved.

JoAnne is exactly right in that it is going to take a lot of money to accomplish the plans we have laid out, further money is limited when it comes to any new endeavor. But I believe we are financed well enough for the time being, even though we will probablly have to add more to the coffers over the next couple of years to maintain our momentum. We are prepared to so.

One other thing I thought I would mention, everyone is looking at this group as a group of large farms. Just for informations sake, yes we do have a couple of large ones and that does not make them bad guys, but the size of each farms involved ranges from 25 horse up, some are halter people, some are driving people,some use trainers, some don't, some fit & show the horses they breed, some don't, 1 is a trainer/breeder. It is a very diverse group that bring a lot of different abilities to the table which is one reason they are here. In every case though they are honest and hard working people that all have a common goal.

Yes we are all Texans and we are starting our campain in Texas, that to me makes sense from several standpoints. One in that it will be easier to iron out any problems, which I am sure there will be a few in our backyard so to speak before traveling across the country.

Secondly we have a large pool of people to pull from here as far as outside the MINI industry that we in the group know. People such as all the exhibitors, stud farms and trainers located around the Weatherford area in the cutting world. As just one example of the folks we know and hope to attract to the mini's.

The demographic of the people we are targeting are folks that are already active in the equine sports, folks that have been involved in equine sports in the past and that have gotten out due to health/age, people that have been involved elsewhere but found it too expensive to compete in the other breeds, folks that have children that want them to have an equine experience but have limited property to work with. These are just a few examples of what we are looking for. Those type people abound here in Texas in a few key places and that is where we are starting, It will be an easier sell if you will and the results should be fairly immediate.

Hopefully those type people get interested by our exhibitions, go to a seminar, attend a show or two and then buy a horse or two for the wife or kids to start showing. If they do we have accomplished one of our goals, the registry wins by getting a new family registering horses and they have to buy that horse from somewhere. This is not a nice idea, it is where the rubber meets the road so to speak for all of us that breed and love these little horses. More people, more things to do with the horses we own, more sales, more revenue for the registry etc. etc.

On a thread I read here at LB someone mentioned that they felt that even though the numbers of members in AMHA did not reflect a decrease, that they believed we are only replacing folks as they leave and not holding on to those old owners and adding new ones.

That is a deep thought if you will stop and think about it. It was those type comments we paid attention to when we decided to try and fill a niche with activities for old and new owners alike in order to try and keep them where they are, because the are statisfied with the content of teh group they associate with. Not the same old deal, but something fun and exciting.

Will the members of our group get a share of those sales yes hopefully we will. But in this day of internet savy, these type people do thier homework so to speak before they spend thier money.

And that is where Boards like Lil Beginnings come in. This board is a wonderful asset to the mini community and it provides a service for those that post here and also for those that want to learn as newbies. The classified adds and the sales board are assets that will be used by these new folks more than likely.

You can't really understand how important places like this are to the overall health of the industry, till you start watching the number of hits and inquries that are generated from a web site like this. This one has a bunch, trust me I have done my homework also, which is one of the reasons I have spent so much time answering all the questions that have been ask here. The folks on here are important and the opinions they have need to be listened too. I hope AMHA/AMHR is watching and listening too to all of us too.

John Cherry

 

[horsefeather]

Well said John. I don't understand those who keep questioning "how is it going to help ME?" It's the trickle down theory. If this works (and I SO hope it does) in Texas, then it will expand. When it expands, it will eventually reach even the outer most areas. As for 'just using the LB for contacts,' MOST of the people here already own horses and while it is comforting to purchase from folks you kinda know, it still isn't reaching the majority of the public (those we would like to see purchase their first mini). Please don't think I am bashing LB, I love it and use it and think it is certainly a VERY important board. But we definately need more folks attracted to our little ones. We (hubby & I) no longer breed and sell minis (hurt the heart too much!) but really look forward to shows. Unfortunately, it seems that a lot of the shows are SO intense, people chasing points (yep, me too) that the fun has gone out of showing. I would love to have something unique I could show in. I would love to get into the part about 'letting the existing clubs make these changes' but, even tho I do talk too much, I'm really not that CRAZY!!

:

Pam

 

[razmusen]

“Our founding member group has an American Miniature Horse herd inventory valued at more than $5M and includes what is believed to be the largest group of Champion American Miniature Horses ever assembled! We also have the most comprehensive collection of breeding stallion bloodlines in the world.

Whoop Te Doooooooooooooooooo!!!!!! Would you like a standing ovation??????????

I have never felt compelled enough to go through the registration process to post to this forum "until NOW".

These people start off by bragging about what they have and it is apparent that they have spent lots of time and effort on this "group" that should have been directed toward AMHA. I personally view it as rich people trying to intimidate AMHA. Wake up people, this is a wealthy group looking to get wealthier at the expense of AMHA (mine and your registry). I am sorry that I cannot respect this at all and hope you don't fall for it either. We need to pull together to try and protect our investment instead of forming alliances to "Be there to pick up the pieces if AMHA should fail". :no:

 

[nootka]

If I had to choose one registry, it would be the AMHA. Was just discussing this with a friend, recently. The numbers are there, time and again. I get more for an AMHA only registered mini than I will get for the same horse with only AMHR papers. Just a fact in this region and for the last 11 years that I have had minis.

Granted, I am a SMALL fish, with one to three foals per year, but if I'm going to have just a few, I want them to be the best quality I can afford, and when I offer a foal, I want it to be suitable for just about anything a person would want to do with them.

AMHA gives me the best value.

I am surprised by the news of this new "alliance" but the more I turn it over in thought, the less threatening it seems to be, and I'm prepared to wait and see, and even be a part of it if it looks to be enjoyable and beneficial to me in my geographical and financial situation.

I enjoy showing more than anything, and while my opportunities to go to shows are limited, I'm certainly not going to say no to more possibilities.

The idea behind the alliance seems fine to me, to promote and expand the possibilities with these horses as well as the people that will be interested.

My reservations include an organization like this pooling too many "big fish" and becoming a negative controlling factor within an already "steered" organization. I don't mind that the big fish do this, because obviously they have more to lose or gain since they spend more money, etc., it's the name of the game so to speak, but I do mind if it gets to be exclusive to the point of disuse for me and if that becomes the case, I'm out.

If AMHA goes under, I will likely stop breeding and just keep a few pets for whatever reason, as I can't see raising high quality mare foals and great geldings and have to sell them for less than $1000 .

Not interested in any registry other than AMHA and AMHR, but I see the possibilities of something like this, and so I leave my mind open and will continue to form opinions as decisions are made and acted on.

Obviously of little consequence, MY decision, but still hoping it is good for everyone in the long run.

Liz M.

 

[Cathy_H]

Sounds like a very big EXPENSIVE undertaking to me to be financed by _____???? We small breeders/exhibitors with limited funds cannot afford many more costs. I'm assuming "if we wanna play we gotta pay" or we will be left behind again.....

: .................. Seems to me that if all of this energy had been directed into solving current AMHA problems, a few more things might have been crossed off of the to do list...... I do like some of the things planned but if I'm a dissatisfied member of an organization which includes decision makers with their own agenda - why would I want to be a part of another one planned by them?

 

[Viki]

I fail to see where this 'alliance' will be a benefit to any of us! They don't even say their ‘shows’ will be affordable!

Why on EARTH would anyone want to spend money with them when they can actually PROMOTE their horses with AMHA?????

I think this group has every intention of becoming a registry (Foundation Stallions page) AND they want to retain their AMHA positions to undermine the organization. Otherwise, why HAVEN'T they resigned their positions??????

I feel strongly that the people involved should resign from positions in AMHA or be impeached out of the positions!

Just my very humble opinion.

 

[OhHorsePee]

Well said John. I don't understand those who keep questioning "how is it going to help ME?" It's the trickle down theory.

I asked what was in it for the small farms not just for me. That is a logical question. If I make a decision on something I want that decision to be an informed one. Why would I or anyone else join something if there was nothing in it for them or myself. Mr. Cherry is here answering questions so this is the appropriate time to ask.

I have a few more questions. On your site there is a segment that states "Where can I buy a small miniature horse?" Then there is an email addy to email your organization. Who receives these emails? Also will individuals interested in purchasing be given all members contact info for purchases or just a select few? And why, since your organization recognizes minis up to 38" does it say "small miniature horse?"

Thank You

Fran

 

[JWC sr.]

I will try and answer all the question at once if I may, and I have no problem answering any of your questions as long we keep it from getting to be negative dialogue that does not help anyone.

1. Yes we have a lot of horses represnted in our group and many of them are champions, we are proud of them and just like the folks that have only one horse love touting them from time to time. Personally I am very proud of the breeding program and the strides my wife Cindy has made in the production of better and better horses each year. Give me half a chance and I will tell you all about it. i am proud of her and her horses and am not ashamed of it.

2. Nootha, I only wish we could control or even effect the described steering of the association as it today. Unfortunatly we can't, but we can work towards doing what we think needs to be done in the industry. We can also hope that the powers that be will institute some of our concerns that were addressed in our letter to them. I want to thank you for the wait and see attitude, as that is all I can ask for.

3. Vikki, no we DO NOT want to be a registry. additionally I think the actions of the folks on the AMHA BOD and in our group speak for themselves as far as being a positive influence on the board. Sometimes I have not agreed with positions they have taken, but I will continue to respect the time and effort all of the board members put in for free, even the ones I completely disagree with.

4. Fran we wanted to include everyone in the miniature industry and we had a lot of discussions about this. Finally it was agreed we wanted to include not exclude anyone that wanted to be involved. I have two horses personally on the farm that are over 34" and we breed exclusively for the smaller horses( those are two older mares we have kept from back when we were only an "R" farm) because we like the smaller horses , but there are folks that are big admirers of the 34 - 38" horse, so we included them. We also plan on having a complete division in our shows that are for the quarter horse/ stock horse type so people that have them can have a special place to show and not have to compete with the new more refined style horse. I edited this to answer your other question about the emails, for the time being the emails are being collected by our group for future use in the programs we will have for the group in the near future. And yes before you ask others than just the founding members will be allowed to particpate.

Also everyone please forgive me for my terrible spelling and typing skills, sometimes I get in too big a hurry to get my thoughts written.

John Cherry

 

[Russ]

So who does receive and answer the emails from this organizations website?

 

[Minimor]

With all the talk about International, I haven't yet seen any mention made of Canada. Jane, all they need to do is open this to Canada, and then it will be "international". A big money show in the US, with Canadians allowed to show--and I believe that for good prize money you just might see some Canadians competing there, even if the only show (to start with) is in Texas--and there you would have "international". Sorry to disillusion you, but it doesn't take England or Europe to make this international. :lol:

Frankly I don't see anything wrong with this concept. As I said to a friend earlier today, at this point in time there's nothing in this new organization for me--but with the trickle down effect and with the possibility of future expansion, there could be something in it for me somewhere in the future. In the meantime I don't feel it's going to do me any harm, and so if I had to give my yay or nay vote on it, I would vote "yay".

Now, has anyone yet suggested that IAMHA hold it's first outside-of-the-USA show....in Canada??? A show held smack dab in central Canada....say Manitoba....would not be interfering with any local AMHA or AMHR sanctioned shows. Perfect. :bgrin

 

[razmusen]

I would say that you probably shouldn't get your hopes up too much about International Miniature Horse Shows put on by this "Alliance". I bet there aren't many, If ANY...... I would bet that most shows will be in Texas with a few being put on in other states just for the looks of things. Regardless of where the shows are, I am guessing that there is only so much "show money" to go around and folks will not be able to afford all of these shows. The fact that people will spend their money with this "Alliance" says that there will be less money for people to spend showing at AMHA shows. This alone is a very negative impact on AMHA.

I cannot see that this "Alliance" will strengthen AMHA at all. I am so disappointed that this group of folks were spending their time creating this "Alliance" while we, AMHA members, thought that they were looking out for the greater good of our organization. This just seems so deceiving. I just can't help but feel this way.

 

[wildoak]

These people start off by bragging about what they have and it is apparent that they have spent lots of time and effort on this "group" that should have been directed toward AMHA. I personally view it as rich people trying to intimidate AMHA. Wake up people, this is a wealthy group looking to get wealthier at the expense of AMHA (mine and your registry).

While I think the jury is still out on whether this will prove to be a good thing or not, I do not believe anyone is "bragging". I think it speaks to the level of their commitment and their depth of experience that these folks have achieved some success in the industry and that they are willing to risk their own hard earned funds to put this together. It does take considerable finances to bring a large project to reality - and lets face it, it's generally not the small farms or individuals who have the wherewithall to do it.

Jan

 

[Neil]

Hmmm... never mind...

Too late Mary Lou, I already read it.

:

 

[Reble]

We all have a right to our opinons

Mary Lou now you have us wondering :bgrin "Hmmm... never mind..."

 

[maryann]

Is it correct that you have been planning this for a year? And during that year a large protion of your founders were on the AMHA BOD? If this is true then it smacks of a huge conflict of interest! For instance ,if in the last year the BOD of AMHA would have made any positive headway in correcting or addressing some of the problems of the AMHA then there would be no reason for an Alliance that is out to "FIX" All the problems in AMHA that you addressed in your announcement. So it would have been more beneficial to your Alliance for more problems to arise or to draw attention to the problems that existed , instead of trying to solve them. If this is a for profit Alliance then even more so. Some how that seems like the fox may be in the henhouse . I hope I am wrong. But... hmmmmm......? maryann

 

[JWC sr.]

This is the last post about IAMHA that I will make out of respect for the concerns Mary Lou has about us possibly being in conflict with her TOS etc. .

This site is too good for the industry for me to take a chance that she might feel a sense of conflict. I respect and believe in what she is doing here and do not want to be part of any problem real or just percieved. :aktion033: :aktion033: :aktion033:

Mary Lou if you want to email me directly I will be more than glad discuss this with you.

thanks to all for the lively discussion everyone, it has been fun in a lot of ways.

Respectfully,

:saludando:

John cherry

IAMHA President