Geld 'em!

[disneyhorse]

([SIZE=8pt]Oh Flip, here she goes again, just ignore her and she will go away).[/SIZE]

:

There is NO other breed in which animals are kept entire in the way that Miniatures are.

Now EVERYONE can have a stallion!!

Wow and impress all your friends, too, and live your dream.

Actually Rabbitzfizz... there ARE some breeds where most of the horses are kept as stallions. One breed is the Andalusian. Spaniards keep almost all of their colts entire, and some never with the intent to breed. Here in the United States more breeders of the Andalusian are willing to geld but still because the value decreases so much, most are still kept as stallions.

Andrea

 

[Jill]

Hey, Liz --

No, I didn't think you were directing anything at me and I appreciate the things you have told me. They mean a lot because I have admired your own horses for years.

I was "inspired" by someone else who felt people were being urged to geld their stallions. Boy, there are surely some who should! But a lot of the ones I have in mind think we're all just jealous :bgrin

:

:

:

When those people actually brag this or that foal looks just like the sire. And, the sire would really would make a pet quality gelding himself... Where DO you go from there?

Jill

 

[Minimor]

Why Jill, you just tell them "yes, they have the exact same tail"....kind of a similar thing to what a friend of mine tells people when they ask him "how do you like this horse?" and there isn't a thing he likes about the horse....he just looks serious and says "UMMM HMMM, he has a nice tail!" My version of that is "oooh, he's a pretty color!" so I guess you could also say "yep, they're the same color anyway" :lol:

 

[Jill]

I hear you! But the problem is, they do look a lot like their sire (which is not a good thing) :bgrin I editted my post since you all haven't learned to know what I mean vs. what I say yet LOL!!!

 

[George]

One thing I don't think other's are thinking about when they make cute and witty remarks about the quality of other's horses on this forum is that some of you have your websites posted as well as your true identity on your websites. Some of the people whose feelings you might be hurting may very well be the people you run into at shows in the future. I think showing should be for fun, not a stressful event because you've insulted someone and now they're standing next to you in a show. Also, what you post here may cause buyers to pass you over because to be honest they may very well like your horses but not the drama. marketing is much more than proudly showcasing the product, you have to represent yourself in a positive light as well. Your job as a breeder is to promote your horses, not share negative opionions of the quality of other's horses.

I don't think you have to pick out anyone's horses specifically to insult many people. To say people are posting fugly horses on this sight and so on is incredibly insulting to many people, not just a few who you might be talking about. Would you say a picture of someone's kids was fugly etc? Most likely not. As a new member I have already picked out the few members to stay clear of, not because their horses are fugly or inferior to others, I choose to avoid them and in the future pass them over if I am looking for top quality horses because their disrespect towards other members of the board paint a mental image of nagging stage mothers.

Please, if you believe your horse is top quality than be proud and share how you came about the results but don't insinuate openly that other members animals are (insert negative remarks here). Many of you do breed great looking horses (and have the right to brag) and you do have great knowledge; what you're lacking most is couth. Try and be just a little more respectful to all members regarding their horses. If you beleiev people should geld their stallions than explain why without mentioning the conformations of horses you've seen on the board. You might not like them but you can bet the people who take the time to post about their horses do and just maybe other's like their horses too whether they are show quality or not.

It is easier to educate people when they like you. And, standing next to someone in a show ring next to someone who is smiling at you is much more pleasant experience than standing next to someone who is glaring at you.

 

[lilfolks]

The last I knew here in my part of CT, gelding was $395.00 plus the farm call but that was a few years back.

Since I am cutting down on the size of my herd, I haven't bred for 4 or 5 years so I don't know what the present rate is.

 

[Lisa-Ruff N Tuff Minis]

Mary(or anyone else) please dont think I think geldings are worthless. I realize I may have worded that a bit wrong...

I have 2 soon to be 3 out of 11 horses that are geldings.

I realize that what I have is what others may not want I realize that while my horses have done ok in the show ring despite having me as a handler.. that doesnt make them better then anyone elses nor does it mean they are the "best of the best"

I think all we can do is what works for us, and make a difference in some small way in our own little corners of the world that "difference" will be of course different for everyone- from gelding, to breeding one less mare, to gelding a colt before we sell, or not using "breeding" issues in our sales tactics

For me it is breeding less mares

whatever it is as long as we all feel we are doing something we are on the right track.

 

[Mona]

WOW...excellent post! :aktion033:

One thing I don't think other's are thinking about when they make cute and witty remarks about the quality of other's horses on this forum is that some of you have your websites posted as well as your true identity on your websites. Some of the people whose feelings you might be hurting may very well be the people you run into at shows in the future. I think showing should be for fun, not a stressful event because you've insulted someone and now they're standing next to you in a show. Also, what you post here may cause buyers to pass you over because to be honest they may very well like your horses but not the drama. marketing is much more than proudly showcasing the product, you have to represent yourself in a positive light as well. Your job as a breeder is to promote your horses, not share negative opionions of the quality of other's horses.

I don't think you have to pick out anyone's horses specifically to insult many people. To say people are posting fugly horses on this sight and so on is incredibly insulting to many people, not just a few who you might be talking about. Would you say a picture of someone's kids was fugly etc? Most likely not. As a new member I have already picked out the few members to stay clear of, not because their horses are fugly or inferior to others, I choose to avoid them and in the future pass them over if I am looking for top quality horses because their disrespect towards other members of the board paint a mental image of nagging stage mothers.

Please, if you believe your horse is top quality than be proud and share how you came about the results but don't insinuate openly that other members animals are (insert negative remarks here). Many of you do breed great looking horses (and have the right to brag) and you do have great knowledge; what you're lacking most is couth. Try and be just a little more respectful to all members regarding their horses. If you beleiev people should geld their stallions than explain why without mentioning the conformations of horses you've seen on the board. You might not like them but you can bet the people who take the time to post about their horses do and just maybe other's like their horses too whether they are show quality or not.

It is easier to educate people when they like you. And, standing next to someone in a show ring next to someone who is smiling at you is much more pleasant experience than standing next to someone who is glaring at you.

 

[Relic]

Nice post George...

 

[Shari]

I don't think you have to pick out anyone's horses specifically to insult many people. To say people are posting fugly horses on this sight and so on is incredibly insulting to many people, not just a few who you might be talking about. Would you say a picture of someone's kids was fugly etc? Most likely not. As a new member I have already picked out the few members to stay clear of, not because their horses are fugly or inferior to others, I choose to avoid them and in the future pass them over if I am looking for top quality horses because their disrespect towards other members of the board paint a mental image of nagging stage mothers.

I did not read through the whole thread....but.....

George...that was wonderfully said.

When I was raising mini's up north... gelding would cost $500.00 for a mini. Only sold one on an gelding contract...will not do that again. Person did not even bother to transfer his registry papers. Sigh ~~

I think that the R & A registries need to help promote geldings more. Think 90% of all Stallions out there would make better geldings. I think the measure of ones breeding program shows in the quality of the geldings. Be it what ever type one is into.

In the past...big horses.. all I wanted was geldings. When I was looking for that first mini all those years ago.... I did not care wither it was a gelding or mare...just looking for a certain temperament. Ended up being Maggie and the mare theme contiuned.

I, in all honesty, did not see many geldings for sale in my area...most were not handled much let alone halter trained.

No matter what I look at... I want the basic's done before I buy...ie halter training, picking up hooves and doesn't mind being groomed.

That is one of the reasons I did not end up with a gelding.

Before this accident I was really looking into a cart trained gelding....but I had/have some requirements.

ie.. a gelding that has no clue about mares in season. Some geldings are real geldings..and others like the Arab gelding I had.. did everything a stud would do except get them in foal. Because I want to run everyone together and I have mares...one of the questions was the above. Bcause I care for the health of all my animals.. I need a clueless in the mare department gelding.

Most people I talked with had no idea what I was talking about :no: . Then with the other requirements.. active driving...years/miles...I got ..oh he was in cart..3 years ago. sigh ~~ Yes.. knew what I wanted and was willing to pay a good price but could not find what I was looking for. Then things changed. I might go back to looking spring/summer of 09.

Anyway.. all I can talk about is what I have gone through.

If I see a horse on here..or anywhere else I do not like the type/conformation or what ever... I just say nothing.

 

[Marty]

I don't think you have to pick out anyone's horses specifically to insult many people. To say people are posting fugly horses on this sight and so on is incredibly insulting to many people, not just a few who you might be talking about. Would you say a picture of someone's kids was fugly etc? Most likely not. As a new member I have already picked out the few members to stay clear of, not because their horses are fugly or inferior to others, I choose to avoid them and in the future pass them over if I am looking for top quality horses because their disrespect towards other members of the board paint a mental image of nagging stage mothers

Word Perfect George.

I love a good discussion but when it becomes down right cruel, hurtful, sarcastic and insulting, the education stops, the learners retreat and the thread benefits no one. A true horseman will find beauty in every horse.

 

[nootka]

A true horseman will find beauty in every horse.

This is true, but a true horseman also realizes that not every horse needs to reproduce to have "beauty" and just because there IS beauty does not mean it is breeding-quality.

I think the sarcasm or "hurtfulness" which is noticed is taken the wrong way, because NOONE has mentioned specific horses.

Yes, MY farm name, my link, my full name is on here, but I stand beside what I say and feel, and am perfectly willing to help anyone in any way, and go out of my way to be helpful and friendly at shows, even to those who obviously have a lot to learn, mostly because I was there one day, myself, and appreciated everyone who treated me the same (welcoming).

When I have the opportunity, though, I do try to direct them to see what might be "wrong" and lead them to a better decision down the road.

Seriously, why is it an insult to say that a horse is NOT breeding quality?

The gelding in my avatar is a very beautiful horse, however he is NOT breeding quality. There is his beauty, and the long and short of it is that he's heavy boned (ish), he is camped out behind, has a weak hip and a large, plain head. He is, however, very willing to work, and learns fairly quickly, and has had a pretty darn nice show career so far. So there you have the "fugly" as well.

If I'm on someone's "avoid" list for my opinions, then so be it. I do my best to be helpful and informative, but do grow weary of the mindset of some people when it's obvious they are breeding for their own gratification, and not worried at all about the deformities they are passing on, nor even concerned about better quality.

Liz M.

 

[Buckskin gal]

Well said George. Sometimes I think there are a few that must have awfully sore arms from patting themselves on the back for how wonderful their horses are and what a great job they do with their program I am sad to see that insted of being an educational thread it turned into a finger pointing snide remark thread. Odd how someone will imply that "they" just don't get it and all the while they themselves just aren't getting what they are doing to try and make themselves look superior. :no:Thanks for the courqge for speaking out. Mary

 

[George]

I am not putting anyone down. What I am saying is there are many smart people here with great knowledge about mini horses and it's a shame that they lack the skills to communicate effectively with other members of the board. These people don't have to educate any of us if they don't want to but if they take on the task to educate us then they have to go about it the right way or no one learns, they become frustrated, we become frustrated and the learning stops.

 

[nootka]

Noone is superior, not I, not you, not "they" or whomever's being referenced.

We've all made mistakes, we're all likely making mistakes, but learning from those mistakes is the difference.

To justify the mistakes again and again and continue to make the same ones is when one knows they're not moving forward.

We're all learning, but I fear that the reasons we stop learning is that old barn blindness/emotions getting in the way. These are animals with feelings themselves, that feel, and they deserve to be given the best start in life by not intentionally breeding defects and/or tragic deformities as well as avoiding breeding more with very little value overall into a market where people say they haven't enough hay, they can't get even a few hundred for an intact colt. It all goes hand in hand.

Liz M.

 

[mydaddysjag]

Heres my solution.

Bring them all to PA.

I paid $75 + Vet call to have Midas gelded, and his wolf teeth were removed while he was out.

 

[George]

I realize that this thread has gotten a little heated but that's the way some conversations go. I have found myself more than once running out to take a look at my colt because of this thread. I can't say that I am going to have him gelded in the near future but I'm not saying I won't either.

I think some of us prefer stallions for other reason's completely seperate from breeding. I spent years raising both stallions and mares at the same time and not once did I breed them. I could have but I saw no reason to breed them. I owned stallions because they are what I prefer and I owned mares and geldings to keep the stallions company. I didn't keep the mares with the stallions, I did keep them in sight. I never once had a problem with a stallion. I never had an unhappy stallion and the reason may be because I was willing to devote as much attention to them as needed.

I have flown all around the world with horses. Yes, it was a little hairy at times having stallions on planes with mares but I would walk from stallion to stallion talking to them to calm them down and never had any problems other than some snorting and foot stomping. Only one stallion ever really scared me and at the last minute I was pulled from that flight because they wanted me to take a gun to shoot him if he acted up and I refused and I got into a fight with the other handler who was going on the plane with me.. They ended up shooting the stallion because he got loose in the plane. I was really mad at the outcome because I had him all calmed down before he got on the plane but the other handler walked up and said, "You're being to nice to him, you want him to know who's the boss so you have to do this." He then puched the horse in the face as hard as he could. The horse totally went wild. The handler and I got into one heck of an argument over that. I was very relieved that I didn't go on that flight because it ended up being very bad. They tried to kill the stallion in flight by giving him an overdose of tranquilizer but that didn't work so they had to shoot him. For weeks I told my boss if they'd left the other handler out of it that stallion would have made it to Argentina alive. He was one huge-beautiful white stallion.

Some of us do like stallions for their spirit and not for breeding. Who knows, because of what I learn from these threads I may choose to geld my colt.

 

[kaykay]

ive been really good and have not posted on this thread because i know from experience how its going to go (and yes thats where it went as usual)

thank you so much for your post george!! so well put

Please, if you believe your horse is top quality than be proud and share how you came about the results but don't insinuate openly that other members animals are (insert negative remarks here). Many of you do breed great looking horses (and have the right to brag) and you do have great knowledge; what you're lacking most is couth. Try and be just a little more respectful to all members regarding their horses. If you beleiev people should geld their stallions than explain why without mentioning the conformations of horses you've seen on the board. You might not like them but you can bet the people who take the time to post about their horses do and just maybe other's like their horses too whether they are show quality or not.

 

[disneyhorse]

George... I am also one who loves stallions for their spirit, and do prefer a stallion to a mare or gelding. However, that stallion must be WORTH staying a stallion otherwise I geld it. If I choose to have a stallion around it MUST be the best quality I absolutely can find, otherwise it really IS more fair to the horse and future owners to have it gelded. Most stallions require good handlers to maintain their good mental states, particularly if not being bred. When poorly handled or neglected, they can turn sour and be labled "poor temperment." Stallions ARE stallions, never to be trusted and never to have as social/loving a life as a mare or gelding can have.

Yes, keep a stallion without breeding it because you love them... BUT make sure they are WORTH being a stallion!

Andrea

 

[George]

Andrea, from what i can see, if Humble grows up to match your Tony I'll have a stallion to be proud of. Tony is beautiful!