Geld 'em!

[Jill]

Being proud of and showing off your geldings IS the right thing to do. A lot of us have said this over and over (and over and over).

Each of the horses on my geldings page were gelded by me with two exceptions -- one who already was a gelding when he came, and one who hasn't yet been gelded (3.5mos old and not at home yet). My Geldings, My Favorite Horses...

My geldings include a BTU son, a multi champion as a stallion (when I showed him, my first ever show horse), a national top ten as a colt / multi national champion as a geldig, a colt born here who's a multi champion gelding, my first mini, etc. Not listed on my site, as I no longer own them, are a gorgeous leopard gelding and a beautiful bay roan champion driving and halter stallion (both gelded "here"). My vet, who does know I love geldings and is happy to help out, has joked "are you SURE you want this one gelded?" Never met a horse who was too good to be a gelding. Just like I never met a horse too good to be a pet (pretty important job in my book). Some of my nicest horses, physically, are my geldings

:

Really, I doubt anyone who's actually owned a mini gelding has any doubt about their worth

: They are the BEST. If you want to show, if you want to drive, if you want a pet... GELDINGS are what's happening

:

 

[GREENWOODMINIS]

:aktion033: SPOT ON GEORGE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

[Shari]

Well, I do think those who are breeding for "what's hot" are also breeding for correctness and have got it all over those breeding for what they could scrunge up. For every one person breeding for what some may see as a trend, there are 10 breeding pet quality x pet quality.

From what I have seen...that is not always the case. I have seen National Champions that I would not touch with a 10 foot pole....and others...in someones back yard...just being Driven...that would knock ones socks off.

All the people I have met in person in NW OR... are very picky about what they breed, as I am. Only have foals every once in awhile. Just because some do not go to the Nationals or breed for what is in right now...doesn't mean they do not have outstanding animals.

My own case...as that is all I can talk about. I have a very nice Jenny...but I just will not breed her to any old Jack. There are a couple of Jacks at stud...but they should be geldings. They would not improve anything on my Jenny. And yes.. my Jenny is nice. So I did not breed her this year.

Only equine on my place that is bred is out of the prized Stallion Orri... she is Royally bred Icelandic mare. I had her bred to a 1st Prize Stallion. She just sold....but she and the stallion where high enough quality to put a foal on the ground next year.

It is just silly to say..anyone not going to the Nationals..or not breeding what is hot...are just scrounging.

Sigh~~

It takes all types..(and I am not talking about Dwarf's, over or under bites, over at the knees, ewe neck or just very poor conformation.)

What one body type my suit one person...another would call junk. That is not the case. Just because one likes... the super refined .... doesn't mean the say.. Morgan types are junk. One is not better than the other.

What I would like to see in Mini's...and it would take a lot of effort. Is the Icelandic Evals... there is not near as many Icelandics in the US as their are minis. But Miniature horse Evals. There is a conformation section and one for riding. Of course minis for the most part could not do the riding..but something in hand or in cart would be do-able. Once the Evals are done...scores on conformation and riding..in the Icelandic Evals are given. This goes in the Central data base for all to see...is called Worldfengur.

Something like that could be set up for the minis.

I am not barn blind about my animals..any of them. Anyone that knows me well.. knows I can pick them apart like no other. I know what I have.

But I will not... unless there are some bad faults... tell someone that their horse is junk...just because I like a different type. And I think most of what I have read...is people saying one type is better than another. That it not the case.....it is more on the lines what the humans like or don't like and their need to shout it to the world.

It is easier to teach or show someone with kindness.... that something needs to be improved....

Than doing what many do making others feel bad.

I have only once in all of my years seen one mare that I thought..along with many others that was shear prefection in conformation and movement. Was an Andaulsian mare. She was poetry in motion.

But found out...she has the most nasty hard to deal with temperament.....gads..she was scary and no it was not the handler/trainer that cause it. She was like that from birth. To me...while she was an outstanding horse in conformation... she was not breeding qualtiy. The folks that owned her thought different. The two colts she had were so unmanagable...agressive...handled by one of the best trainers I had the pleasure to meet... they ended up putting both of the colts down after someone was hurt very badly.

There is no perfect horse out there... not National..not backyard...and not all backyards are junk.

To me...backyard means.. you breed your animals.. right out your back door...and most do..no matter how big the place.

I am not pointing fingers at anyone. Just talking in general about what I have seen and what has always been important to me. As I have said many times..that is all I can do.

I find it important to geld in any breed of horse....those who do, are what I call hero's!

:

Also many have already said...

~Gelding parties.. ... many Vets will cut the price if they get a number of mini colts or other breeds together in one place.

~Gentle nudges work more often, than in ones face or rudness....to help others to geld.

~Learn as much as you can about all types of mini's...learn what is best to geld or to keep whole.

~Those that have the gift of writting...which is not me... brain storm with your peers ..and write articles about how important it is to geld. Also send Articles about minis and the importance in gelding for the breed, into the main stream magazines where it will reach more readers.. But don'e base it on type...base it on all conformation flaws that show up no matter the type.

This is the last I will even say about this. Gelding is an important matter...no matter the fad, type, whats hot or not, to any one person.

 

[Buckskin gal]

Well Shari I, and I am sure others think you have done a wonderful job of writing and you do a wonderful job of being an advocate for gelding because of the way you put things. I think all who want to become or are advocates for gelding might make this their motto and keep it posted!

:

"~Gelding parties.. ... many Vets will cut the price if they get a number of mini colts or other breeds together in one place.

~Gentle nudges work more often, than in ones face or rudness....to help others to geld.

~Learn as much as you can about all types of mini's...learn what is best to geld or to keep whole.

~Those that have the gift of writting...which is not me... brain storm with your peers ..and write articles about how important it is to geld. Also send Articles about minis and the importance in gelding for the breed, into the main stream magazines where it will reach more readers.. But don'e base it on type...base it on all conformation flaws that show up no matter the type."

I do want to add, for all of those who think there are too many colts being born, don't breed the mare that possible could have a colt and then it won't be a concern for anyone.

: Mary

Well, I do think those who are breeding for "what's hot" are also breeding for correctness and have got it all over those breeding for what they could scrunge up. For every one person breeding for what some may see as a trend, there are 10 breeding pet quality x pet quality.

From what I have seen...that is not always the case. I have seen National Champions that I would not touch with a 10 foot pole....and others...in someones back yard...just being Driven...that would knock ones socks off.

All the people I have met in person in NW OR... are very picky about what they breed, as I am. Only have foals every once in awhile. Just because some do not go to the Nationals or breed for what is in right now...doesn't mean they do not have outstanding animals.

My own case...as that is all I can talk about. I have a very nice Jenny...but I just will not breed her to any old Jack. There are a couple of Jacks at stud...but they should be geldings. They would not improve anything on my Jenny. And yes.. my Jenny is nice. So I did not breed her this year.

Only equine on my place is out of the prized Stallion Orri... she is Royally bred Icelandic mare. I had her bred to a 1st Prize Stallion. She just sold....but she and the stallion where high enough quality to put a foal on the ground next year.

It is just silly to say..anyone not going to the Nationals..or breeding what is hot...are just scrounging.

Sigh~~

It takes all types..(and I am not talking about Dwarf's, over or under bites, over at the knees, ewe neck or just very poor conformation.)

What one body type my suit one person...another would call junk. That is not the case. Just because one likes... the super refined .... doesn't mean the say.. Morgan types are junk. One is not better than the other.

What I would like to see in Mini's...and it would take a lot of effort. Is the Icelandic Evals... there is not near as many Icelandics in the US as their are minis. But Miniature horse Evals. There is a conformation section and one for riding. Of course minis for the most part could not do the riding..but something in hand or in cart would be do-able. Once the Evals are done...scores on conformation and riding..in the Icelandic Evals are given. This goes in the Central data base for all to see...is called Worldfengur.

Something like that could be set up for the minis.

I am not barn blind about my animals..any of them. Anyone that knows me well.. knows I can pick them apart like no other. I know what I have.

But I will not... unless there are some bad faults... tell someone that their horse is junk...just because I like a different type. And I think most of what I have read...is people saying one type is better than another. That it not the case.....it is more on the lines what the humans like or don't like and their need to shout it to the world.

It is easier to teach or show someone with kindness.... that something needs to be improved....

Than doing what many do making others feel bad.

I have only once in all of my years seen one mare that I thought..along with many others that was shear prefection in conformation and movement. Was an Andaulsian mare. She was poetry in motion.

But found out...she has the most nasty hard to deal with temperament.....gads..she was scary and no it was not the handler/trainer that cause it. She was like that from birth. To me...while she was an outstanding horse in conformation... she was not breeding qualtiy. The folks that owned her thought different. The two colts she had were so unmanagable...agressive...handled by one of the best trainers I had the pleasure to meet... they ended up putting both of the colts down after someone was hurt very badly.

There is no perfect horse out there... not National..not backyard...and not all backyards are junk.

To me...backyard means.. you breed your animals.. right out your back door...and most do..no matter how big the place.

I am not pointing fingers at anyone. Just talking in general about what I have seen and what has always been important to me. As I have said many times..that is all I can do.

I find it important to geld in any breed of horse....those who do, are what I call hero's!

:

Also many have already said...

~Gelding parties.. ... many Vets will cut the price if they get a number of mini colts or other breeds together in one place.

~Gentle nudges work more often, than in ones face or rudness....to help others to geld.

~Learn as much as you can about all types of mini's...learn what is best to geld or to keep whole.

~Those that have the gift of writting...which is not me... brain storm with your peers ..and write articles about how important it is to geld. Also send Articles about minis and the importance in gelding for the breed, into the main stream magazines where it will reach more readers.. But don'e base it on type...base it on all conformation flaws that show up no matter the type.

This is the last I will even say about this. Gelding is an important matter...no matter the fad, type, whats hot or not, to any one person.

 

[nootka]

To me, gelding has never been about type.

Too many people confuse type with poor conformation.

A quality and well-proportioned QH (full size) is still a sound horse.

Too often I see people within the mini world trying to pass off their horse as "qh type" when it is clearly a short-legged, very thick-boned, short-necked (set low) and goose-rumped horse.

There is also the "draft" type that is often used to explain a mini who has the almost a dwarf look (which really IS a dwarf if you're honest and understand how it works) as in thick, short legs and long body with a large head and thick, short neck.

The "Arabian" type is what people tend to use to describe the more refined looking horse with a flatter topline, though it can go horribly wrong when the "dish" is misconstrued. The horse on my place with the dishiest face is nowhere near the same in looks as a true Arabian. HOWEVER, his dish is low, between his eyes and nostrils, NOT up between his eyes pushing the bulge up near his ears.

I could illustrate the difference fairly clearly here (for educational purposes) both horses are similar in age in the photos, which is five months:

This is my "dwarf" filly, that many said was not, but to me, she had too many features of a dwarf, the worst of which was a full-tooth off underbite, tooth crowding, a high dome, very thick bone for her height of 30" and overall proportion issues. Look how highly placed her dome is, or bulge. It is much more extreme though she is smaller, and the inside of her mouth reflected her conformation.

In addition, her nostril placement is too high and set too close together. It should have been less extreme by this age.

These all may be "subjective" and I NEARLY had this filly sold for $4000, but I'm so glad I hung onto her. I ended up selling her as a pet only for $500. Her underbite alone dictated this decision, but coupled with the other characteristics, it said dwarf to me.

Here you can see that this colt's dish is less extreme, but still present. The nostril placement is normal. Also, he does not have the underbite (nor over), and his teeth have normal spacing. The filly above's wolf teeth were growing directly behind her front incisors.

This colt will always have a "dishy" face as in miniature type, not true Arabian type, but I find it pleasing because it's not really something associated with a deformity. Others have said they don't like the look of it, and that is where we get into subjective. A head shape that is not associated with a deformity such as dwarfism which causes tooth crowding or even sinus issues, will NOT make a horse lame, or unhealthy.

Other than that, it is purely objective, and type has nothing to do with it.

I hope this helps a little bit...and this is in no way meant as a pat on the back to me. I bred both horses. One wrong, one right. Maybe I'm overly cautious, but I give a lot of weight to ANY dwarf characteristic as a breeder, the registry gives you three strikes and even that is "subjective" as some would say.

A characteristic that others don't even mention are heavy, thick bones for the height (this filly has thicker bone than horses that were 3" taller and fully mature to boot). Now, if all else is very near perfect, I say go ahead and breed, as in heavy bones do not a dwarf make (look at the gelding in my avatar, not a dwarf, but he's thick boned, though not breeding material for other reasons), but if there's an off bite, a proportion issue such as very short legs or shorter forelimbs, etc., then no go.

I realize I've gone wayyyy off topic, but know that many are reading this thread.

Type is subjective, but type is not a reason to sugar coat obvious deformities, proportion issues nor just plain poor quality. There are horses of the "Arabian" type with poor quality, too, though that "type" is my preference as in full sized horses, I know that the day I got a true Arabian in miniature born on my place would be the day I felt I'd reached at least one of my goals. HOWEVER, that is a long ways off, I can only do my best. A miniature will never have the same proportions as full sized horses, at least likely not in our lifetimes. Evolution or adaptation takes too long.

Liz M.

 

[miniwhinny]

Well, I do think those who are breeding for "what's hot" are also breeding for correctness and have got it all over those breeding for what they could scrunge up.

From what I have seen...that is not always the case. I have seen National Champions that I would not touch with a 10 foot pole....and others...in someones back yard...just being Driven...that would knock ones socks off.

All the people I have met in person in NW OR... are very picky about what they breed, as I am. Only have foals every once in awhile. Just because some do not go to the Nationals or breed for what is in right now...doesn't mean they do not have outstanding animals.

It is just silly to say..anyone not going to the Nationals..or not breeding what is hot...are just scrounging.

Sigh~~

I will not... unless there are some bad faults... tell someone that their horse is junk...just because I like a different type. It is easier to teach or show someone with kindness.... that something needs to be improved....

Than doing what many do making others feel bad.

There is no perfect horse out there... not National..not backyard...and not all backyards are junk.

To me...backyard means.. you breed your animals.. right out your back door...and most do..no matter how big the place.

This is the last I will even say about this. Gelding is an important matter...no matter the fad, type, whats hot or not, to any one person.

THANK YOU :aktion033: :aktion033: What a wonderful post. It gets old reading how "mine are better than yours" all the time and that if yours don't look like mine they are garbage. You summed up everything I've been feeling. :aktion033:

Breeders can do so much for this breed. I turned down numerous colts in my search for Ozy and since looking at others because none were stallion quality (not talking about MiniV's where I got Ozy from) Yet, everyone was sold as "herd sire material" and all but one (according to web sites) have now been purchased as herd sires. If you don't know enough about basic conformation then you shouldn't breed until you are ready...if you do know enough then you, as a breeder, should also know enough to geld those colts who don't make the grade and refuse to sell them ungelded. If just a few breeders would do this geldings would be more popular, those left entire would be worth more and the breed would improve in all types people breed for. Because of the cost and dangers of spaying ( my vet said it's a serious procedure for a mare) the mares are another topic.

 

[Jill]

Far be it from me to confuse anyone with actual facts, or to expect that what I said would be read as what I said and not twisted into something I never said and never implied

:

 

[Katiean]

Right this moment there is a Very nice Appy bred stud for sale here in Reno for $700. She has to move him because she can not afford the board. He is 2 years old and has national champions in his pedigree. Maybe he should be gelded. But, she isn't going to do it because if she can't afford the $150 for board whet makes you think she can afford $350 for gelding. Even if there was a program here like you talked about to geld him it would still be $250. I don't see her doing that. What we need is a program like they have for dogs and cats. Here in Washoe county, from the SPCA you can get a certificate to spay or neuter dogs and cats for $10. It costs around $150-$350 to spay or neuter a dog or cat otherwise. I think more people here would geld their colts if they had a program that offered $50 gelding. But they don't. We need to get the vets on board with this or colts we have and colts they will stay.

 

[susanne]

I wholeheartedly agree with Katiean about gelding programs, and with encouraging gelding parties. This would be an excellent program for miniature horse clubs AND large breeders to coordinate. It would take some organizing body to coordinate, promote and provide the location and line up the vet (perhaps through a university vet program), but very little cash outlay on the organizer's part, so it would be a win-win situation for all.

It would be a great way for a farm to promote themselves as responsible breeders, and a great way for a vet to build a clientele. Not to mention, one could include fun activities, seminars, etc. to make this a fun and educational get-together.

 

[nootka]

susanne, you know I halfway wonder if Dr. Hunter wouldn't be up for it. At $95 per at the most, I think that's very affordable....

MAYBE we could get local feed and/or tack stores to donate some item for each horse that comes through such as fly masks, halters, feed certificates...?

Some people are not going to want the horse to have to travel right away, so there's that issue as to where the horses will stay while they recuperate, because it does take them a little while to get back onto their feet and steady.

Good ideas!!!

(btw, having national champions in one's pedigree does not tell me anything about a horse, honestly, let alone their breeding quality or suitability, nor does NOT having any tell me a thing, though both things have implications which would cause me to look further before making a decision)

Liz M.

 

[susanne]

This is something I've found interesting...

At almost every show we've gone to, somebody comes up to me and says (or implies) that I've made a big mistake in gelding Mingus. I'm always enormously complimented that they think highly of him, but I've never regretted my decision.

To my mind, he is thhe perfect gelding...he's a very good halter horse, partly due to his charisma, but his faults prevent him from being breeding quality. Nevertheless, many see fit to question my judgment.

This type attitude makes many people hesitate when they consider gelding a nice horse.

 

[Minimor]

In regards to the wait time between gelding and trailering the horse back home, I can say that if the vet is competent at figuring dosages, it is not necessary to wait very long before the horse is able to travel. The last time we took two to be gelded, the first one got up and stood around while the second one was done--he was pretty much steady on his feet by the time the second one went down-- the second one got up and stood a few minutes and then was steady on his feet so we loaded them both back into the trailer, I went in & paid the bill and then we headed home. Previously we'd always had our horses gelded at home & some were woozy for quite awhile afterward, but that was due to the vet giving too much ketamine--based on that we figured we'd have to wait around awhile until they were fit to haul home, but such wasn't the case.

 

[tagalong]

(btw, having national champions in one's pedigree does not tell me anything about a horse, honestly, let alone their breeding quality or suitability, nor does NOT having any tell me a thing, though both things have implications which would cause me to look further before making a decision)

Exactly right.

Trying to catch up here...

As many have pointed out - and it still seems to get glossed over by some - having national champions in your pedigree - or not - means nothing. You can have a butt-ugly horse born to 2 national champions - it happens - but at least you are starting out with something of quality. No matter what the breed - minis, Icelandics, Hanoverians...

As has also been mentioned COMFORMATION has little to do with "style" or "type". I agree that some of the bulkier minis are simply said to be QH type... when an actual QH type would still have excellent conformation... the basic structure and foundation remains the same.

Style? Not all driving minis in the show ring have that flashy reach and high action....how then do you explain the country pleasure horses who win consistently and exhibit a level, ground-covering gait. And not all driving horses can move over into a halter class, either. There is a niche for everyone. I prefer the horses that are versatile and do both... and in time, more horses will do just that.

It is just silly to say..anyone not going to the Nationals..or not breeding what is hot...are just scrounging.

That was not what I read at all.... and as far as breeding what is "hot" - I will repeat - good conformation is the foundation of every "style". Form to function... all the parts working together.

It gets old reading how "mine are better than yours" all the time and that if yours don't look like mine they are garbage.

Yours, mine and ours are all bound by the same rules - and Conformation... (need to say that over and over again, I guess) crosses all styles. Conformation lies under all the fad colours. It is the foundation to build upon - no matter what your preferences for style. And the basic components of that do not change. The structure of legs... shoulders, angles... apply to a mini as much as they do to a Thoroughbred. And as there is no such thing as a perfect horse... we keep working on the "template" to improve them.

The last time I was at an open horse auction an entire herd of minis (15-20) went through the ring... many of them them bearing the unfortunate stamp of the "herd sire" who, it was announced, had grandparents who were National Champions... and was downright ugly - bordering on dwarf - and he may have been a minimal one. The "breeder" announced that he was getting out of minis as the market was "poor"... and someone bought that ugly stallion cuz he was "cute" and took him home to breed to gawd knows what.... and "make a few bucks"...

I cringed. What happened to that unfortunate little herd? I have no idea. If I had had the space - and my own place - I might have rescued a few of them... and found them pet homes.

And yes, nootka - I agree with you about your filly - and the minimal dwarf issues...

We used to have gelding parties when I worked back in the Rockies - they were a great success! One memorable May afternoon we had nine new geldings streteched out on the grass in various stages of recovery.... 2 QHs, an Arabian, 1 Connemara - and five minis... :bgrin

 

[rabbitsfizz]

Tag- that picture takes me back- I had seven foals stretched out in my barnyard one year- and an exhausted Vet!!

The place looked like a Hobbit re-enactment of Custer's last stand!!!

 

[GREENWOODMINIS]

rabbitsfizz...you are too funny

: custers last stand :new_rofl: that is just so funny to visualize :lol:

lis

 

[SunQuest]

Wow...

Where to start... I agree, basic conformation is just that. The basics. But, what I find a fault many would not because as I have been told that minis are not riding horses and they don't need that trait if just pulling a cart. What I see and like, many don't. And honestly, I still look at many of the horses including those in the show circuit and think that we have a VERY LONG way to go before I think that minis have what I ultimately want. As an example, I can't stand to see a weanling or yearling looking like an adult horse in porportions. Why don't we see senior stallions more often in the magazines so that they show us what they really are? Just because they were phenominal as a youngster doesn't mean that they matured to be phenominal and should be bred. But that is just what I like and wish to see and hence just my opinion. And it is also one's perogative to like what they have and if they feel it is breeding quality, then it is also their right to breed it as honestly, that is what makes the world go around. (Besides, it does give us something to gripe about right?

: )

Should we strive for better education on what conformation is? Most certainly. Should we strive to make a market for minis that are gelded? Most certainly. But... It will be through education that we will get the stallions gelded and not by saying that your stallion is fugly. It is easier to attract flies to honey than it is to vinegar. It is easier to teach someone what good conformation is by picking apart a horse that the teacher owns than it is to pick apart the students beloved pet so that it does not feel like the student has to defend themselves.

And while we are all passionate about our horses and what we are breeding, we do have to remember that those that need the help the most are not normally those that are on this forum reading this thread. Where we can make the biggest impact is just by being nice to those that are in need of a mentor and if we all would just take one person under our wings to try to help with that education, the world would be a better place.

Now with that said, and before you flame me about everyone having the right to breed what they like, NONE of the foals that have been born our farm will EVER reproduce. And, along with that I have not bred any horses in 3 years. Further, All stallions have been gelded (I haven't had time to update my web site, so can't go with that.) Now did I like gelding them? Nope. I love handling stallions more than mares or geldings and mine were always ran in a group and not an issue to handle. But then again, I beleive that it doesn't matter what the conformation is like if I can't handle the attitude. But, with the uncertain future that the last year has passed on to our farm, I could see no better alternative than to geld everyone.

Just my thoughts. Really, those that feel they are preaching to the chior or are frustrated that no one is listening need to find a better song about what they are preaching. After all, it is easier to nudge a huge ship to get it to go in the right direction than it is to try to force it to turn sharply.

Edited to add:

While thinking on this some more, I have come to the conclusion of "What am I doing to help educate others? Hummm... Maybe printing off the article that was linked to in the first page would be good. Then include that article with the paperwork on each and every horse that is sold. And what about conformation basics? What if one writes an article and includes it with the sale of each horse for those that are new to minis? I suspect that there is a lot we could do to further our cause without ramming our own thoughts down each other's throats. Including information that the seller could then read if they wish too may be one way to go about helping the situation.

 

[nootka]

It is easier to teach someone what good conformation is by picking apart a horse that the teacher owns than it is to pick apart the students beloved pet so that it does not feel like the student has to defend themselves.

I do and have done this, and will do it as many times as anyone's interested. Any of my horses.

I never said any one horse was fugly, just that I've seen some, and they are proudly being held up as an example for future herdsires/broodmares/in foal, etc. etc.

I've had fuglies born here.

Anyhoo, hopefully people will pay attention and at least consider finding a mare for their stallion that may not share his lack of neck or leg fault etc. etc. never double up on a conformational defect even if you DO breed one, if you breed bad bite to bad bite, guess what? Chances are real small that you get one with a good or normal bite.

Liz M.

 

[nightflight]

Right this moment there is a Very nice Appy bred stud for sale here in Reno for $700. She has to move him because she can not afford the board. He is 2 years old and has national champions in his pedigree. Maybe he should be gelded. But, she isn't going to do it because if she can't afford the $150 for board whet makes you think she can afford $350 for gelding. Even if there was a program here like you talked about to geld him it would still be $250. I don't see her doing that. What we need is a program like they have for dogs and cats. Here in Washoe county, from the SPCA you can get a certificate to spay or neuter dogs and cats for $10. It costs around $150-$350 to spay or neuter a dog or cat otherwise. I think more people here would geld their colts if they had a program that offered $50 gelding. But they don't. We need to get the vets on board with this or colts we have and colts they will stay.

Well... thats the point. For many reasons, not everyone with horses can afford to keep them the way they woud like them to be kept. If $350 is the best price for gelding in your area, bump the dollar amount up to $350. $100 is what I set out here because I got on the phone and called around until I found a vet who would geld for that much (some clinics do push $300).

If you need a program like the SPCA has for dogs and cats then someone has to build it. If you would like to try to build something you have a lot of support here. If it's not your cup of tea, please pass the info along. Maybe someone else would be willing to take on the task. Sometimes we all have to turn down new projects to do right by what we have going on.

On the vet clinics my club has done we get a group of people who say "interested" then we book the vet for a day with a min & max number. Then we collect a "reservation fee" that is only refundable if we cancel the vet. If enough people don't send in the reservation, we cancel. If people send in a reservation and do a no show, that money goes into a program. We do that most often with dental clinics, but there is no reason that it wouldn't work for a gelding party too.

 

[maestoso]

I was talking to a friend about this topic, and she made a great point, so I decided to write it here...

For those of you who are intent on saying that gelding is the best and only logical option unless you have the best of the best, here is my argument to you.

Not everyone can afford the best. And from what I read you are saying that people who can't afford the best end up buying several pet quality horses, this is SO not true. Some people can only afford ONE PET QUALITY horse. There is a place for pet quality breeding, as long as you are not breeding soundness problems. Cow hocks is not a soundness problem, it is a conformation fault, that doesn't affect the pleasure of owning a horse. If the only options around are expensive show horses, where does the person who just wants a pet buy their horse?? I am not saying that the people who are breeding more then they can sell are doing the right thing, but I am saying that it is unfair to criticize someone who breeds a pet quality horse once in a while to sell or to keep.

The other argument I hear is that people who want pet quality horses can find them at a shelter(which by the way some areas dont have a shelter around for hundreds of miles) because this breed is over bred and many horses cant find homes. Well if this is the case, then it is EVERYONES responsibility to stop breeding, Including show horses. If this is such a crisis, they the big fancy farms are doing just as much damage by breeding 6 or 7 nice horses as the back yard breeder. Nice horses find their way to the shelter too.

I still say the inexperience is the problem, not breeding or studs or anything else. Some people are just sounding like there is no place at all for any horse who isnt show quality, and this just isnt true.

 

[nootka]

There is a place for pet quality breeding, as long as you are not breeding soundness problems.

Hhmmm....nope, I still don't see it being the right thing to breed for pet quality in this market.

There are so many horses to be had for far cheaper than you could breed them, if that is what you want them for.

Instead, go buy these ones going away at kill prices and save them, feed 'em, vet 'em and give them some training, and then sell them. You will be ahead of the game for what it costs to feed the mare through the Winter, worm and care for her as well as the stallion, and you don't have to lose sleep over the baby coming, nor worry that both mare and foal will die in the birth (a possibility for every foaling).

Enough of the people breeding the nicest to the nicest will have the "pet quality" outcome for whatever reason, and while still sound, they just aren't cut out for showing and/or they are not up to snuff for breeding.

Not to say EVERYONE breeding just for a pet here and there is off, or wrong, again, as long as they're considering heritable defects and the like, but that there are options and that's the point.

To breed these pet quality (well there has to be a better term, because all of my horses are pets and some are quite inarguably, still good show horses and/or breeders) for the sake of just making more of them (I can't see the profit, personally, so I can't put that in there), is really something all of us should reconsider.

The point of this thread is very near that concept.

The problem being, that there are some very large scale breeders out there who are really not doing any of us any favors with the tremendous amount of mediocre to very low quality horses heading out onto the market as well as ending up as breeding stock, when most of the have no business there just because they are no improvement on the last generation.

Liz M.