AMHR Convention News (Unofficial)

[kaykay]

I was in the 23 to vote on the by-laws. Frankly I wanted to get it out of the way. We had the number of people to make it count one way or the other...if we didn't like the by-laws as written get rid of them and start again next year. That would be no worse off than sitting on these as they are. Now we have to vote on these again.

I did think long and hard about it. The reason I preferred to table it rather than vote it down, is because if we had just voted it down it would disappear and no one would look at it. There are things in the bylaws that need to be fixed. By tabling it a new committee is formed and will work on it again and hopefully at the next convention everyone will be better informed and the issue with the articles will be cleared up.

It has never been a secret that miniatures bring in more cash than shetlands. But at the end of the day it doesnt matter who brings in more cash.

I do think the future is bright and saw some really encouraging things at convention

 

[RayVik]

It is extraordinary that this issue with the Articles was used to highlight the issue of the bylaws when the true ramifications of of this issue was that every single action taken by the BOD ...this organization..every convention..and everything else became a BIG question mark since that time...but it was only important to address it relative to presenting the revised bylaws which was by all existing previous articles ( if our latest were not ratified) one of the few actions that was and could prevail and was legal....

Just a FYI I found and brought this matter to the attention of the BOD at last years spring conference and it was put to bed then...But memories seem to be short and people wonder why or legal fees are high

 

[muffntuf]

I agree and voted to table for a new committee and presentation at next falls convention meeting.

Not that I don't recognize the time and effort that Ray Tobin put into this.

But I chose to table it for the lack of use of the whole committee, for sections of the by laws and articles that I read (I read the whole thing before Ray started presenting it) that I think need correction and for the fact we as an organization have possibly not ratified the Articles from 2003-2004.

I also believe they should be published on the registry website and the Journal (and possibly sent out in the new E-newsletter application coming) for all members to read and have time to digest before the next convention.

 

[RayVik]

A Little knowledge is a terrible thing...

The motion was to Table THESE revised bylaws so it is now old business for next convention it was not to send them back to committee or for review or revision...Stories seem to change..it was tabled and voted to allow people time to read them ..not to allow this revised version to be revised...and the vote was for just that ...to table them to allow time for review...how is it there seems to be those that somehow feel this was a vote of confidence in what they were are were not acceptable....and that now they are stating how a procedure which is out of order will take place in revising these...

If you do not like or agree with a section of them then say so but stop with the holier then thou and understand the process it only serves to further confusion when it is misstated.

 

[LaVern]

This is just to hard for me. Have I got it right? The membership asked you to take a look at our By Laws to see if they were legal last year? You were to give a report this year, but no one listened?

But this is what bothers me, if I have it right and I must not. Don't we have a lawyer to tell us is our By Laws are up to snuff? We must because no insurance company is going to take us on if we are not doing things right.

 

[~Lisa~]

Frankly this whole excuse of the committee really makes me angry. I am sick of that excuse. Ray was asked to head a committee and head it he did. Lets not forget many things are simply not inline with IL state law which can only lead to more legal fees.

Had we allowed him to finsih reading so clarifications and questions could be made we would have been better off.

As far as the commiittee goes he was not a committee of one that is correct however if those chosen for the committee chose not to participate then that is on them and no one else. Guess what folks I am on the youth committee that does not mean I can complain about other decisions if I as a committee member chose not to participate and ensure my voice was heard that is my responsibility as a member of the committee. I can not blame it on anyone else and say I didnt get to participate if I myself did not make the phone calls and send the emails asking to be involved in the process.

But nonetheless we are now waiting another year and Kay these by laws are not thrown out and starting over sure you can write your own and present them to membership but this work was done and tabling it does not mean throwing it out the window and now lets hope everyone chooses to read it and not use an excuse next year.

My fear is how many things in our orginal by laws no longer even meet the state laws? And if that is the case what type of legal fees does that open us up to now?

I know there was more then one who worked on that committee not in name only but actually worked and personally I thank them for the very thankless job they undertook- and all the time and hours that were put in trying to ensure our registry and by laws were up to date and in accordance with state law.

 

[muffntuf]

Lisa, he did not contact the committee, he even said that at the General Membership meeting. My area BOD did not talk to him until Congress - that's almost a year of no contact between them. So please don't go there. I personally called all but one committee member to ask them about their thoughts and they had no idea he was working on this, even though they were on the committee.

 

[dmk]

A Little knowledge is a terrible thing...

The motion was to Table THESE revised bylaws so it is now old business for next convention it was not to send them back to committee or for review or revision...

EXACTLY which is why I said in my previous post I was in the 23 that wanted to VOTE on them so we could say yes or no. Now we have to look at these same ones again next year as is.

 

[~Lisa~]

Well Trace again we differ if they knew they were on a committee that is more then in name only you call your chair if you are interested in the outcome but lets get real and be honest..Now if a few on the committee do not like it they can voice their opinions but the only ones I have heard voiced were strictly about the BOD seats

This is nothing secret in fact some were posted in a Journal I heard although I have not opened my past 2 Journals so that could be incorrect. There has been a web site up with and about the by-laws for months now it has been posted here and on other forums and groups so others including the BOD and committee members could visit it

I was one who voted to hear them out and then would be ok if we decided to table them but I feel we needed to hear them to know what was a choice to vote on and what needed to be done to keep us in compliance with current laws

seems the one by law that most were opposed to is simple not allowing the miniatures to have equal say on the board.. plain and simple - lets call it what it is. That is what everyone is and was fired up over. To me this is simply about power

And was I the only one who heard many of those things were housekeeping things to keep our registry in compliance with IL state law?

this is not uncommon laws change and yet our by-laws and articles have not why are we not concerned about that? Has anyone (myself included) researched what we are open to now due to not having everything in compliance? My guess is no.

Even if we had 8 mini seats and 8 shetland seats or 16 open seats really do not see an influx of mini only people my guess is many would end up being open or Shetland seats by default but things have changed things are different and as a mini and pony owner I see nothing wrong with allowing the minis to have a voice on our board in fact with ensuring it -I guess I am not sure what the fear is like I said frankly I am pretty sure even if the seats became mini seats they would not all be filled.

It will work itself out one way or another and life will go on however I personally do not believe it will be a dead issue until fairness is brought to the Board in representing both ASPC and AMHR when it comes to seats - Do I honestly believe things will change drastically or all 8 mini seats (or even 16 mini seats would be filled) Nope no way But it is the gesture of fairness IMO but that is just my opinion and one I know many of you could care less about

 

[dmk]

Ray I looked for you after the meeting and spoke to Vickie because I think you were not treated well in the meeting. I do not agree with some of the things you put into the by-laws presented, but I do appreciate your time. I spent a lot of my own time reading over the previous by-laws and all the information on the website in regard to the changes.

However, I will say....the task of rewriting the by-laws - IN MY OPINION - was to correct things that were in error...either by law or by verbage. But there were changes you made that were flat out CHANGES to our by-laws that should not have been presented at the same time. The statement was made we had to accept them as a whole or not accept them as a whole. Whether you meant that or not....I do not believe we could not amend them in the meeting. I would have asked you to remove the NEW part about board qualifications and term limits and revert back to the older version of requirements. Then I would have been fine with the new by-laws and so would probably many others. It was the fact that you DID change the by-laws...not ONLY bring them into line with legal issues. And there should have been something set up .... via projector or handouts for every single person in the room...old by-laws and and outline of the changes. It was too confusing and difficult to follow without those in writing in front of us. So, in defense, I can understand why many voted to table.

And fyi to everyone that says it was a committee of one, IF I had been on a committee and was never contacted I think I would have picked up the phone and called the chairperson as well as my own directors and asked what the heck was going on and why was I not involved. I would have been loud and clear to the fact I intended to be included or told I was not welcome which would have been a different story. That is, if I had knowledge that my name was on that committee.

 

[RayVik]

Lisa, he did not contact the committee, he even said that at the General Membership meeting. My area BOD did not talk to him until Congress - that's almost a year of no contact between them. So please don't go there. I personally called all but one committee member to ask them about their thoughts and they had no idea he was working on this, even though they were on the committee.

I grow weary of this he said she said..and that I did or did not do this or that...I will not post the emails I have from my committee members nor will I post the emails from our corporate lawyer...nor will I open up the committee section to the bylaws website for public review to see who commented therein ...But I WILL stand by the product put forward to this organization and I WILL state correctly that THOSE revised bylaws were tabled for review and they ARE on the minutes for consideration at the NEXT convention AS IS....The time for all the innuendo about how they came about is past...

what is so amazing is I see people continuing to attempt to discredit me and attempt to somehow misrepresent the process that has taken place without even a vague understanding of it yet they somehow seem to have all the knowledge directed toward discrediting me rather then reading and commenting on the document as presented and the merits therein. The efforts put forth to create this document is there for all to see and stands on its merits and will or will not be accepted by the process in place.

WE do not require our directors to have MBA's and Degrees in Law and be Licensed Vets yet we allow them to manage and direct our organization

WE not not require our committee members to have degrees in there respective undertakings

We dont require of members to maintain knowledge of our inter workings and legal requirements.

We do allow and accept the efforts of those who choose to put forth effort and time to help this organization for the collective good of the whole ...except... for a few and except for certain specific cases...IT appears that this is one of those "exceptions" by some of those "few"

 

[~Lisa~]

Michelle I agree the disrespect and attacks in that meeting was totally unacceptable but that said..

I do not want to give the impression this was a tense and mean atmosphere at Convention as it was not.

Yes there were differing opinions and yes the MAJORITY were respectful in disagreement and trust me those few making snide comments from the peanut gallery were noticed and not in a good waybut that is on them.

Even after tempers cooled a bit after that meeting things were back to normal in that no matter what side you were on most were adults and could leave it where it was and move on and enjoy eachothers company laugh and have a good time.

I do not always agree with decisions and realize the world does not go according to Lisa but I love to go and see everyone without the mad rush of getting horses ready for a class and to just have a good time- laugh and share stories and it is something I look forward to every year

Despite a few major differences of opinion I do feel our registry is on the right track, going thru some growing pains and with the dedication we have will be ok

 

[dmk]

Well I agree Lisa. Most people handled everything with a little class. There is nothing wrong with having different opinions because otherwise we wouldn't need a BOD or meetings, etc. This is how the process works. I may disagree, but I always try to see the other's reasons and I thought for the most part it went great. Not nearly as bad as many expected. Next year will have an agenda once again and it is our duty as members to come prepared for what we hope to accomplish.

 

[Belinda]

I personally would like to THANK Ray for following thru with the task that was assigned him.!!

I can not even begin to know or tell you folks the countless hours Ray put into , trying to bring our by -laws current with today's world , There are many things that need updated , as in allowing us to do business by email or Fax allowing us to have mail in voting etc... the list goes on .. And yes there were some things that people disagreed with Term Limits , Shetland seat vs. open seats !!

 

I must say as being a Committee Chair myself , I can not count the times that People on my committee never have responded or acknowledged the work I ask of them ,, And what happens then they are replaced the next year by someone that is willing to work.. I do not stop working on the task given to the committee because some on the committee choose to not work, I as the Chair have the responsibility to carry out that task , Just as Ray did ,,, AND I like Ray will not name the ones I know personally that have talked with him and put in their effort as a By Laws committee member , but just know there were some on that committee that did put forth a effort and those that were non-workers !!!!!!

 

I hope when we print these that EVERYONE that is concerned will take the time to read and UNDERSTAND the changes and come to the 2011 Convention and Vote ,because there we will Vote on these changes ..... And once again Ray thank you for all You and Vickie do for the Youth of the AMHR/ ASPC both local and on the National level

 

[~Lisa~]

again Ray thank you for all You and Vickie do for the Youth of the AMHR/ ASPC both local and on the National level

I know as a mom of a youth who shows I have thanked you but I can not thank you enough for all you do for our kids and please know it is very much appreciated not just by me but by my daughter and many other kids as well!

 

[LaVern]

The issue as to what stipulations you have to have to become a director is not as big of a deal to me as to wondering why our lawyer isn't the one who keeps us informed as to, if we are in compliance with any newly changed laws. I don't care if you have to be a descendant of George Washington or if you have to owned twenty ponies as much as whether it is legal to have that in our By Laws.

Seems to me that we should be paying for legal advise rather than legal litigation, I think it would be cheaper.

 

[kmh]

"the Journal will be and is taking applications for a new editor"

 

I am glad to see something is FINALLY being done about the issues with the Journal. This has been unexcuseable the last few months. If I were an advertiser paying those kind of fees and having the Journal arrive much later AFTER the dated event (auctions, shows, sales, etc.) is long over, I would certainly be very upset and ask for a refund.

We would have liked to attend a few of the horse sales IF we had known about them BEFORE the sales were over!

 

Let's hope this get resolved very soon for everyone's benefit.

 

Steph

 

[RayVik]

Just to give a little idea of what revising the bylaws involves

take the simple example of this organization accepting the use of email as a form of notification...it is a choice of this organization not a legal requirement...so just at the very small level where or how does this "choice" come about....

understanding the bylaws can say as much or little as we want them to but each one is a choice and a open choice in many cases so and although a bit of a stretch they legally could say something like all notices must be on red paper...but the choice of color is a choice so some may want blue, some green, some yellow.... So what some may of considered as rewriting was much more involved and complicated they just simply changing a few words....

For those that think it is simple or that it requires no understanding of anything more then grammar I would offer they become involved in future processes regarding such undertakings and see for themselves what is required...I challenge anyone here to post a single section of our bylaws and show that a choice does not exist...the mere fact the section exist is in itself a choice....

 

[LaVern]

Ray Vik-- Yikes-

 

[JWC sr.]

I have kept my mouth shut during this discussion in order to see what others were thinking and what direction the discussion was going to take. The following are the comments I can make about it that might clarify where I saw things from in any case:

1. Ray worked a long time (which I appreciate)on making the presentation that he was attempting to make and never got a chance to present it fully. That to me was a shame as we have now placed ourselves as a collective organization in a compromised position where we may not be in compliance with Ill. law and that may reach up and bite us at some point in the near future. That is not acceptable to me.

2. I will admit that it was indeed very tedious to sit and listen to the partial presentation at best, that however is the nature of these type beasts. I personally had reviewed the proposed changes over the last number of months thru the web site set up for that purpose, notices of that web site have been posted here on this forum and a number of others that I also frequent and were available for anyone interested in what was being done. Be the committee members or regular members. So to me not being informed of the proposed changes is not a valid excuse.

3. Members of that committee should have been involved if they were indeed trying to do the job ask of them by the BOD and there was no lack of opportunity to do so. I was involved (in voting on the web site and reviewing the proposed changes there also)and was not a member of the committee.

4. No matter where you come down on any or all of the changes, it is our responsibility as members to do what we individually can to make sure we guide this organization as best we can. So many times I hear the complaints that the BOD makes this or that decision without regard to what the membership wants. Now when we got the chance to voice an opinion, we vacillated as versus making a decision in an open forum, where informative discussion would have a great way to air positions and detailed interaction in order to make a difference. Personally if the BOD has to make some changes in order for the organization without an input for the members, so be it and we got what we in essence ask for.

5. All in all the convention was for me a positive experience and I encourage everyone to try and go to any that you can go to. The committee meetings were the most informative meetings I have sat in in a long time. The work a lot of the committee members put in was evident and a real positive in every way. The judges seminar/clinic was a highlight for me also. Marvin and his group did an awesome job.

6. I sincerely appreciate the job Larry Parnell did as our president and I think Pat (the new prez) and his executive committee are going to do an awesome job also. I liked the way Pat ( he is indeed very passionate about the registry) handled himself during all the negotiations and minor problems that happened during the convention.

Thanks to Belinda, Larry, the office and all the other behind the scenes workers that put this thing on, it was a good experience to say the least. See everone in Oregon next year!!