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QuiltinMom

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I didn't see an introduction thread where new members go to introduce themselves, so please move this thread if need be.

Long story short, we have a special needs daughter that is 7 years old. Like any 7 year old girl she loves horses. We have been trying to find a hobby that would suit her needs and keep her interested. We have looked in to 4H and thus started our path looking at horses. She is still too young to show any animals, but we thought it might be a good idea to get a mini horse and allow her to start working with it now. We would like her to halter show and maybe even ride them (daughter only weighs 37 lbs) and possibly some day get a cart and drive them.

We have been in contact with a local club and have joined. We went to a "fun show" last weekend and were able to observe and meet a lot of horses and their handlers. We were so warmly received. We didn't know anything about horses until we have most recently started researching it. We are in love and are looking forward to getting our first mini or two.
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So, we have looked at a stallion in Missouri that is triple registered. We know his name and his registration number. Can you tell me if there is somewhere I can go to look up his heritage/history? We are buying him from a couple that didn't change his registration to their names when they purchased him in November 2013. Will this mess anything up?

I know we shouldn't start with a stallion, but we have gone and met him and he is cool, calm and collected. He came right over to us and the kids and didn't think twice about us touching him anywhere and everywhere. We opened his mouth and we messed with his ears. We even lifted his feet as if to clean them and he didn't mind at all. There is something about this little guy. Can't explain it. We have never had a horse before, large or mini, but this seems to be out of the normal behavior for a stallion.

So is there a way to look up his AMHR, AMHA and his World Class Miniature Horse Registry? We have been told he has champion blood lines and was shown by his previous owner. We don't know what his training is like either. I would love to get ahold of the previous owner and get some more history on him. The people we would purchase him from had no interest in showing him or driving him. He was just going to be a pet. They are an older couple and have unexpectedly had some big health issues come up and are no longer able to care for them.

Also, if we are able to determine his history, champion or not, how do we find out what a good price would be? Min horses seem to be all over the place in price.

AMHR Registration 302057A

Star G Dakota Spirit

THANKS for all your help. I am sure I will be on here quite a bit bugging you all and asking lots of questions. This is a new venture for us and we are looking forward to it.

P.S. We are on an acreage and have a barn that we can put them in. We have already started building stalls and we have some pasture that we can turn them out to occassionally for exercise. We know they can't be out there all the time.
 

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Here's his pedigree from AMHA, and I've included the Show Results for those horses in his pedigree that were Champions or Reserve Champions. (Their names are in italics on the pedigree report). Reading a pedigree may be a bit of a challenge, but start from the left and you'll see Star G Dakota Spirit's name. Then move one horizontal line to the right and the horse touching this line above his name will be Dakota Spirit's sire, and the horse touching the same line below Dakota Spirit's name will be his dam. And then you move line by line to the right to see the parents of those horses, etc.

Congratulations on joining the world of miniatures. Your daughter can begin showing at her age, but not a stallion. Children are not allowed to show stallions, but if he were gelded, she could show him. And a pair of geldings might be just perfect for her, any horse needs a buddy, and many times a full stallion will not pasture well with a gelding, and if you buy a mare, you will certainly have a pregnant mare before long. Think through what you want to accomplish, and perhaps purchasing the stallion and gelding him would be a good move, if you're just wanting friends with good attitudes for your daughter. Then you could add any horse as a buddy and she would be safer.

Please remember, a stallion is a stallion, and if you choose to purchase a mare next, his attitude may change, as he will become powered with hormones when the mare cycles. Just wanting your daughter to enjoy the fun of ownership, without the worries of "herd dynamics" if you purchase a mare and a stallion together.

As to the paperwork, make sure the people have all the paperwork, including transfer papers from the former owner, so the horse can be registered. If you need help knowing what papers this seller must have, just ask, as we're here to help.

Congratulations again, and we look forward to hearing more from you!

STAR G DAKOTA SPIRIT.pdf
 

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QuiltinMom

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Here's his pedigree from AMHA, and I've included the Show Results for those horses in his pedigree that were Champions or Reserve Champions. (Their names are in italics on the pedigree report). Reading a pedigree may be a bit of a challenge, but start from the left and you'll see Star G Dakota Spirit's name. Then move one horizontal line to the right and the horse touching this line above his name will be Dakota Spirit's sire, and the horse touching the same line below Dakota Spirit's name will be his dam. And then you move line by line to the right to see the parents of those horses, etc.

Congratulations on joining the world of miniatures. Your daughter can begin showing at her age, but not a stallion. Children are not allowed to show stallions, but if he were gelded, she could show him. And a pair of geldings might be just perfect for her, any horse needs a buddy, and many times a full stallion will not pasture well with a gelding, and if you buy a mare, you will certainly have a pregnant mare before long. Think through what you want to accomplish, and perhaps purchasing the stallion and gelding him would be a good move, if you're just wanting friends with good attitudes for your daughter. Then you could add any horse as a buddy and she would be safer.

Please remember, a stallion is a stallion, and if you choose to purchase a mare next, his attitude may change, as he will become powered with hormones when the mare cycles. Just wanting your daughter to enjoy the fun of ownership, without the worries of "herd dynamics" if you purchase a mare and a stallion together.

As to the paperwork, make sure the people have all the paperwork, including transfer papers from the former owner, so the horse can be registered. If you need help knowing what papers this seller must have, just ask, as we're here to help.

Congratulations again, and we look forward to hearing more from you!
WOW.....that was fast. Thank you so much. The only paperwork that the current owner showed us was the certificates that have the raised seals on them.

Is there a way to get another copy of the transfer paperwork? I am sure.they don't have it. The horse had a coggins test before they got him and they didnt keep it because they had no plans of showing or selling them. We are going to have another Coggins test done before we proceed.

I am going to look at the history you attached now and see if I can make any heads or tails of it. Do you see any champion blood.lines?
 

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They would need to have the transfer papers they got from the former owner when THEY purchased the horse. Without a transfer from THAT owner, you can not register this horse into your names, so no showing under your name. They need to find that transfer paperwork, or contact the former owner to get a new set of transfer papers.

Yes, at the bottom of the pedigree I attached, are those horses that were shown to Championship level.
 

HGFarm

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Greetings!

I do not recommend a stallion for any beginner, especially one with special needs. Unless the horse is going to be gelded, there are rules regarding youth showing stallions on any circuit- 4H, open shows, breed shows, etc....

I met a young lady with Downs Syndrome at our spring show here in Arizona, who already has some World Champion titles under her belt!! She is not very old either. When driving, they allow her dad in the cart with her in the ring but she does the driving. He is there in case of emergency only. She shows her little heart out. They have, I believe, a lovely mare and a gelding that they show. The whole family is involved and it's just wonderful to see them in the ring. The horses are very calm and patient.

Please rethink your plan of a stallion- he may be quiet in his home environment but they can certainly be a handful, especially when surrounded by mares at the excitement of a show- and again, there are rules against youth showing stallions. It's for a reason. Things can go wrong in the blink of an eye, even with an older gentle horse.
 

bevann

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Welcome to the wonderful world of Minis.I am sure your daughter will love her Mini.IMO There is no need to keep this little guy a stallion especially if you want your daughter to be able to show.If he is quiet now he will be even better as a gelding.In AMHR there is are special classes for special needs adults and children.The shows are wonderful and the people are so nice.Not sure about AMHA since there are no shows in my area.This site is a great place to get good information.My suggestion as 1 of the first things to do is find a vet familiar with Minis and a farrier who will keep feet nicely trimmed.My other advice is NO HAND FEEDING OF TREATS.Put treats in a bucket.I have seen numerous Minis who are constantly nipping at at adults and especially biting children because they are expecting a treat.Come back often and ask lots of questions and post photos when you get the new member of the family.When you progress -driving will be another fun activity for your daughter and you will be able to go in the cart with her even in the show ring.Minis are very strong.Keep us posted.
 

7fluffyfriends

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Welcome QuiltinMom! There is so much wisdom offered through this forum that you can read it everyday (
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) and always learn something new! I am pretty new myself to the forum though have followed for quite awhile and have laughed, cried, and identified with many situations. Yours is actually one of them.

About 10 years ago, I purchased a double registered pinto stallion, 'Dreamer', that was in a tough situation being sold for a very low price and I knew his outlook was bleak.

When I purchased Dreamer, I had already been a horse owner for about twenty years and had moved to the mini world with two minis - both mares - and I had the set up to keep stallion and mares apart, though they could socialize through the fencing.

Dreamer was about 15 at that time and all of his papers were in order and transferable. He had been used for leadline and driving and, while in poor shape with even poorer prospects, he was (and is) an agreeable fellow. I have let my grandkids brush Dreamer, with supervision, and he is loved and cared for. I have grandchildren that have been interested in the minis and we have enjoyed showing, parades, and community events, but NEVER with Dreamer.

First, of course, they are too young to show a stallion in any capacity and boy...is he quick when something gets him excited and a child just can't react quickly enough in my opinion. Even at the age of 25, Dreamer can move mighty fast when the urge takes him and that approximately 200 pounds can be hard to hang onto. You have to be quick and firm yourself and it helps to weigh more than 100 pounds (ok....more than 135 pounds and there I draw the line!!)

I have wished many times that I had him gelded right away. For some reason, I thought he was "too old" and since I had a suitable facility just let it go. Dreamer is part of our family, loved and cared for, but even now, as mellow as he is, he is still a stallion and there are those moments when he reminds me to pay attention!

We all know that horses are amazing teachers and I am very grateful to have been able to share them with our grandkids - it has been a total blast - along with a LOT of hard work, dirty hands, cold feet, and exhausting days. The kids have enjoyed their moments of triumph and learned that the sun still comes up when you lose. They continue to enjoy these little guys after a dozen years or so - our little band of two geldings and four mares have been forgiving friends and priceless companions.

I wish these same moments for you and your child.
 

QuiltinMom

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Thank you all for your responses. I reached out to the current owner and explained that we would need the transfer paperwork and asked them to reach out to the prior owners to get copies of it if necessary.

When we met and saw the horse we loved him and felt comfortable with him so we left a deposit to hold him until we could get a Coggin's test done (we are in Iowa and would have to cross state lines).

Well when I contacted the current owner by email about the paperwork issue she has completely gone crazy and is accusing us of using our special needs child as an excuse and we only wanted him for a stud. True we were considering studding him out to offset the cost of having horses but that was not our total intent. Our daughter comes first.

At this point we are backing out of the deal. They have agreed to give us our money back. We told them that we felt we were not going to get the horse they had advertised. Not intentionally misrepresented, just weren't organized with their paperwork. Anyway she has said she no longer wants to sell him to us anyway. She keeps sending nasty emails attacking our character and our intentions. Obviously we dont want to do business with her either.

Today we went and looked at a two year old female. She was not a good fit for us as she was not used to having kids around and was very jumpy. It was so hard to walk away and tell the kids no, but we had to. We had plans to look at her before we found the stallion. We would like to have two so they have a buddy.

.........the search continues......
 

Ryan Johnson

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Firstly welcome to the forum from Australia,

I think you have made the right decision in walking away from this stallion. Who gives this lady the right to judge you like that. The safety of your daughter is the most important factor when choosing a horse, cause at the end of the day a horse is not a toy.

If this lady is serious about selling her stallion , then I suggest she get her act together. I would have asked for the papers and could she not produce them I would walk away aswell.

IMO for what it is worth, a 2yo filly is very young for a child starting out. My first pony was 16 yo and I had at least 10 years with him before I decided to retire him to the pastures in the back paddocks . I have just purchased my cousins daughter a 18 yo pony who is perfect for her. Loves to stand and be brushed and doted on.

You have to take into account that at these ages of 16 & 18 yo , that these horses have experienced "life "and what comes with it. The sounds of bikes, cars , wind not to mention a few are all things you hope a beginners horse is well and truly accustomed too .

I really hope this lady hasn't deterred you and that you find what you are looking for .

Best of Luck, Ryan
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shorthorsemom

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Welcome from SE pa.

Find a nice "been there and done that" gelding for your little girl. I have two geldings and I highly recommend that you start with one.

Good that you walked away from that stallion.

Good that you walked away from that mare.

A gelding is a great start, you can buy one very reasonably, you can probably find one pre trained and used to children. Mares are sweet but can also be moody.

There is nothing wrong with owning a super good looking, well bred, gelding.

I leave the breeding to the breeders. Should I ever want a foal, I would purchase one. My boy in my avatar was a stallion when he came here, he is gorgeous and he was well mannered and has a great temperament. We gelded him. His former owner and I co=owned him for quite a few years and she highly agreed with the gelding. I have children who at the time I purchased my boy arrived were quite young. We do not ride our minis. Driving is a fun adventure for many minis.

I have to say this, (please don't think I am frying you)... But many responsible miniature horse breeders would not sell you a stallion knowing you wished to use him as stud and especially when you have a special needs very young child. If he were my horse, I would encourage you to find a more suitable horse to start with. You can read the folks who have already posted here and you can hear the concern of you starting with a stallion. I compliment you on joining a club and for doing research and for sharing on this forum. Some of us horse folks are rather blunt. Rather than get your feelings hurt by the first person who owned the stallion, I would encourage you to use this as an educational opportunity in the wonderful world of miniature horses. They teach us much, they humble us often. I also would never purchase a horse from someone I could not bond with personally and who had a personality that conflicted with mine. My first contact in miniature horses is now one of my best friends and has been from day one. Find someone you enjoy, chances are you will enjoy their horses too:)

There are so many horses out there, you will find your love match, just take your time and start slow. Miniature horse breeding is not a big money maker and it is not easy. I have two geldings and I love them to pieces. Once was an adventure I wanted for my children, now is my adventure instead. Miniature horses are wonderful and very rewarding. take care and good luck on your search.
 
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shorthorsemom

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Just noticed your posting about wanting two for a "buddy"... Most miniature horses would not do well living alone.

I would visit some farms and read some books. I know of some breeders who do "on farm lease" programs so they can guide you while supervising the horse.

Do you have any experience with horses? Just curious if you are new to miniature horses, or new to all horses.
 

QuiltinMom

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We have purchased 3 or 4 books and are learning as much as we can. We have never had a horse before. Big or mini. We have joined a club but most of the members are not in our neck of the woods.

We do know of a mini horse farm that is about an hour or so away. We have spoken with them at the state fair and plan to contact them again in the near future. They were going to Nationals and we didn't want to be bugging them while they were trying to get ready for it.

We have friends that have big horses and it sounds like minis are a lot like their larger counter parts other then obesity issues and proportional issues.

Believe me we are not approaching this lightly. We know this is a huge commitment and we are researching and learning everything we can.

We have already started building stalls in our barn and still have work to do before we are ready to bring anyone home.
 

FurstPlaceMiniatures

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Agreed with everybody else!

My first mini was/is a stud - but I had owned biggies 18 yrs and rode 3' 9" jumpers on the a circuit under a trainer that worked on a ton of 'last chance' horses. Id had a bunch of biggie stud experience as well. He was a project for me even! A beginner would have been so turned off by the experience! And his beginner owners practically gave him to me because they were so done with him. Horses are for having fun - not overwhelming yourself.

That being said, you are a wonderful person for doing this for your daughter!

As a community, instead of telling this wonderful woman what she shouldn't buy, maybe we could

Post some sample ads (big or small,) so she can see what kind of ads to follow up on?

You are going to only want to look at horses with an up to date coggins and vaccine records. That's always my first check. It's actually illegal where I am to buy or sell horse without a current coggins! Rabies should be utd too at the very least. I also like to see at least a 10 way too.
 

FurstPlaceMiniatures

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That was in no way meant to attack you.

The op probably does not know what constitutes 'been there done that.' There are a ton of dirty horse sellers out there. Like the age old dealer trick of a picture of a kid standing on the horse to make it look quiet. Any body experienced knows any remotely broke horse will probably tolerate that long enough to snap a picture. A beginner thinks 'wow look how good!'

Any seller advertising a stallion as 'kid safe' for example is one to avoid. There is no such thing as a kid safe stallion. Any seller advertising anything under 3 or 4 as kid safe is probably lying as well.

Finding the right horse is hard. I hate buying horses! Finding the right leads to the right horse is harder. I feel like examples of what 'been there done that' is and what a good lead looks like is more helpful to a newbie than pointing out what a bad one is!
 

shorthorsemom

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I didn't think you were attacking me at all:) just keeping the dialog running on this string to get her as much information as I can think of very quickly since she is already shopping.

I hate buying horses too.
 
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QuiltinMom

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I don't want this to become a debate thread. I am reading and learning from all of the posts you have put here for me. I admit, I don't like some of the answers, but I am still learning from them. We are out of the deal with the stallion. We walked away from a 2 year old female as she was just too jumpy. I don't think she was a bad horse and I believe she would calm down after being around us for a while. I think she just had not been exposed to very many people in her 2 years. She was very calm for the owner because she was familiar with the owner. If we already had a few minis and were just going to add her to our "collection" then I think it would have been a different situation. But since this will be a first horse I know she would get smothered with attention from my kids and they wouldn't give her the time she needs to adjust. My concern is that all of that attention before she was ready for it would drive her away and make her more distant and jumpy. The owner tried to say it would only take a week or so. I don't think she was being dishonest in any way, but she doesn't know my kids and how they will smother the horse with attention whether she wants it or not.

That being said, we are wise enough to walk away when it doesn't feel right. We know how to tell our kids "no". We are not going to buy a horse just so we can have something here right away. We have spent countless hours researching, learning, reading and talking to several different friends that have big horses. They are not familiar with minis though and they are honestly quite intrigued to learn about them themselves. I truly wish we had someone close to us with minis that would mentor us and teach us and make sure we are ready for a horse, but we haven't found anyone close.......yet. We would certainly feel more comfortable if we had someone watching over our shoulders, but haven't found that person, yet.

My husband was raised on a small farm. He knows all about hay and the different qualities and how to check to see if it is bad or not. We know that horses need a different mix then cows and we are very comfortable with that area. We also know that minis need some grain in very small portions. We will wait and see what the owner is feeding them before deciding what grain we would feed. We know minis can't be turned out to pasture as they will over eat and get sick. When we have talked with current owners of minis they all say "well you have certainly done your homework" and they seem to have no concerns if we wanted to purchase from them.

We know that hands on experience would be better then reading a book or researching on the internet, but that just doesn't seem to be a possibility in our neck of the woods. We have big horse farms around, but not any with minis that we have found yet.

Again, I truly appreciate the input you all have for us. Believe me we are listening and learning.
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Riverrose28

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Hello and welcome from Southern Maryland. I think you are on the right path do your research before puchasing. I agree with the others that a gelding or two is the safest way to go. Good luck in your search.
 

bevann

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Since you are looking for a Mini that is to be for your daughter my advice is to find an owner who has Minis that are like their children.I know some small Mini breeders who have a few Minis they would never sell since they are part of the family.Often these people know where there is a nice gelding who would be perfect for your child.The Mini network is far reaching and lots of nice people.I would look for a seller whose primary concern is the perfect match for your daughter and the horse.To that seller it is not all about the money.They are out there just sometimes hard to find.Sounds like you have done your homework and are being cautious. You might also try chances mini horse rescue They sometimes have Minis that are very nice and are very particular about the right Mini child combo.They will be very honest about what you are getting.Good luck in your search.
 

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