WHY BREED MORE AND MORE HORSES

[Celeste]

Thousands upon thousands of horses are slaughtered every year yet breeders, whether registered or not are constantly breeding more and more! I just need to ask why when so many end up as dog food?

If only reputable horse breeders were to stop breeding for one year it would make a big difference to the horse overpopulation

....

 

[LowriseMinis]

How many horses from reputable breeders are going to wind up at slaughter, as opposed to those strictly pet horses or backyard bred horses or race track castoffs or old, used up ranch horses?

If ALL reputable breeders stopped breeding for a year, how many people would wind up purchasing from BAD breeders?

The same questions could be asked about dogs and shelters, actually.

 

[txminipinto]

Well, to start, it's hard to slaughter horses (legally) when there are no slaughter houses that take horses. Here in Texas, the slaughter of horses has (unfortunately - that's another soap box) been banned.

YES, the horse population as a whole outnumbers the available homes. Why do big breeders breed? For the almighty dollar. Why do smaller breeders (like myself) breed? To improve our own programs and for the almighty dollar. Search this topic and I'm sure you'll find several. It seems someone needs to thump their chests every now and then (sorry it's almost 4am and I'm at work - excuse the grumpyness). It's unfortunately up to each individual breeder to regulate their output. I plan to breed my mares back in '08, however, depending on who I still have from the '07, '08, '09 foaling seasons I may not breed any back for 2010. But, I only have 2 mares that I breed so that's probably not the answer to your question.

 

[rabbitsfizz]

If I stopped breeding it would have NO affect on the horses going to slaughter ( and we still have many licensed slaughterers here, thank God)

None of my horses has ever gone alive to slaughter.

(Our horses are passported and we can write that in- a horse cannot go for slaughter without a "clean" passport)

Because I only bred maybe one or two Arabs a year, and have at top numbers only bred eight Minis a year I am able to keep tabs on them for the most part.- I also happen to know that even when horse ,eat was at a premium the Knacker only took the REALLY big (by out standard) horses and then, nine times out of ten, they were resold (I would actually rather have had them dead, controversial, I know, but, if you saw the alternatives at the time....)

I have seen auctions through to the end and I have never seen Minis go specifically for slaughter, it is not economic.

So....slowing down on the breeding would definitely slow down the abuse, but the slaughter??

I honestly do not think Minis are hugely contributing to that.

 

[Jill]

OR how about people really doing their homework before slapping together a breeding herd and starting to turn out foals?

This is my biggest pet peeve with this breed -- someone buys their first mini and a year later, they're breeders. Some of these "breeders" wouldn't even know good conformation if it somehow got the chance to eat their hay. Lots more of them just overlook the mamoth, low slung necks (how supple will those horses ever be?), poor tailsets, coarse heads, and other things that may not be bad conformation but sure doesn't make for a pretty overall picture.

Everyone has their own opinions, ways and horses. For me, it just is an awesome responsiblity to be the cause of bringing an animal into the world that may live for 30 or more years! To me, it is really important to do what you can to make sure the horse is good quality (and to me, that means both conformation and type).

I've had horses for 13 years and minis for 8 years, which is a drop in the bucket compared to some of us here. I started out having a couple as pets (1), then got into driving (2), then got into showing and serious learning about type and conformation (3), then built up the caliber of my show horses (4), and THEN made changes to create a herd I feel optimistic about breeding (5). I would not have been able to really have a chance at the quality I want in foals and the future generation if I had started breeding back when I first got into minis.

To date, my one home bred foal actually happened because a good friend wanted to breed a mare of hers that I liked a lot to my show stallion. I let her but soon after, she had to sell the mare so I bought her. The foal is now a senior gelding that I still own, and I showed him from home (no trainer) to multiple halter championships at registry and local shows.

2008 will be my first foal crop, and I may have as many as five (5). That is A LOT for me, but I have dreamed and planned for this seriously since 2004 and it is finally "time".

 

[hahler]

With what dan and i do we see alot of "power breeders" as we call them.

but we also see alot of people that breed controled (not all the brood mares every year)

since we are getting into the mini business we are going to concentrate on geldings and if we have a good stud it will be in a controled enviroment

dawn

And yes the slaughter plant controversy is another can of worms that i have posted about in other threads

 

[MeadowRidge Farm]

Celeste, I ahve been saying the same as you for the past few years. I have 30 mares, and have not breed for the past 2 years, prior to that I was very selective and only bred 2-4 mares a year.Some of my mares, I would not use for breeding, as I dont think the quality is there, but there "pets now" and wont be going anywhere where they could be used for breeding. I think if everyone would just plain stop buying from the "backyard breeder or mini mills" it would help. The backyard breeder might only have a very few mares and breed yearly,but I do think they care a little more then the mini mills, which from what I have seen and IMO dont give a hoot and breed everything and anything, and then when they cant sell foals they drop the prices so low, which in turn makes it bad for all of us. Not to mention they stick the bare necessissities into there poor horses. It doesnt take alot of intellegence to figure out WHO is breeding everything every year. Just look at the sites it pretty much says a whole lot. Every animals they own is bred, regardless if its a dog or horse, or whatever.

 

[Margaret]

I am also observing a lot of larger breed horses needing rescue lately. Perhaps because they require alot more feed to sustain..

Many people that start out in the large horse breeds end up with miniature horses for various reasons. Some because they are easier to manage.

Also some thing for a breeder to consider before rebreeding is, did all of your horses go to good financially stable homes or did they have to be auctioned off to be sold?

It is important to see a solid demand for what you are producing before continuing to produce more, otherwise you could be adding to the problem.

If my offspring did not sell to good reliable homes this year, there would have been be no rebreeding for next year.

 

[JourneysEnd]

QUESTION ?

I stopped breeding dogs right as AKC started offering non breeding papers.

Can those of you who breed dogs tell us if that helped.

It could be something for AMHA & AMHR to look at. I don't think it would stop backyard breeders, but maybe it would improve prices for show breeders.

BTW My neighbor is with Harris County Sheriff livestock and he says since the slaugher houses closed they are seeing more horses dumped places but the starvation issues haven't changed.

 

[CLC Stables]

Banning slaughter houses for equine was a big mistake on the part of the government.............we won't see the MAJOR effects for years, but it is going to snowball, and OH MY is all I can say.

 

[Jill]

Banning slaughter houses for equine was a big mistake on the part of the government.............we won't see the MAJOR effects for years, but it is going to snowball, and OH MY is all I can say.

Sadly, I think you are right.

Vickie, I'd also love it if the registries would let breeders register horses as non-breeding, and to also allow subsequent owners to change a horse's status to non-breeding and for that to be stamped on the papers.

 

[Charley]

In horse, as with dogs, it isn't the reputable breeders that are the problem.

Breeders who truly care about improving the breed and breed the best to the best are helping make the breed stronger. Breeders who care about the horses that they bring to life and offer to take them back if it doesn't work out, who always offer that safe haven for their former horses, are not the problem. Breeders who take time to place their horses in the right home, not necessarily the first buyer that comes along, are not the problem.

The problem is and will continue to be the breeders (and I use that term loosely) who just don't care. As long as people buy from these types of breeders they will not change.

The only ones who can change the situation are the ones who buy horses. JMHO

 

[CLC Stables]

A lot has to do with EDUCATION EDUCATION EDUCATION..............what I see is the lack there of.

People need to educate themselves on so many levels before breeding, and even then I don't feel many should.

 

[Charley]

Looking back at your posts, I see you are from Australia. Is this post referring to horse overpopulation in Australia?

 

[Field-of-Dreams]

If only reputable horse breeders were to stop breeding for one year it would make a big difference to the horse overpopulation

....

No, it wouldn't. That year the BYB/millers would fill the world with their poorly bred animals. and THIS would happen:

If ALL reputable breeders stopped breeding for a year, how many people would wind up purchasing from BAD breeders?

Now, if you could stop the pony mills/BYB for a year THAT could help. But it will never happen. Not in our lifetime.

Lucy

 

[Suzie]

Banning slaughter houses for equine was a big mistake on the part of the government.............we won't see the MAJOR effects for years, but it is going to snowball, and OH MY is all I can say.

Major effects are happening sooner than you might think. For the last 2 months, at local sales of big horses, there are trailer loads of horses that show up, wait until dark and then unload the horses and leave..... No hip #, no information on who owns them. The local auctioneers are running them through and taking what they get to get rid of them. Needless to say, these are not well fed horses. A friend of ours bought one, brought it home, put it under saddle. The horse immediately kicked, breaking the rider's ankle. I am sure this is one that will be at the autioneer's next time to go through again. Stories abound locally with horses being turned loose to fend for themselves in government owned preserves so the government will be forced to address the issue. This happened years ago with wild pigs and now they are a major problem in the south.

Obviously these are not registered horses (for the most part) and not having papers has not stopped the breeding of these big horses. I don't know what the answer is but I do know if you breed good stock the price will stay reasonably high.

 

[Mini Mouse]

Well, to start, it's hard to slaughter horses (legally) when there are no slaughter houses that take horses. Here in Texas, the slaughter of horses has (unfortunately - that's another soap box) been banned.

YES, the horse population as a whole outnumbers the available homes. Why do big breeders breed? For the almighty dollar. Why do smaller breeders (like myself) breed? To improve our own programs and for the almighty dollar. Search this topic and I'm sure you'll find several. It seems someone needs to thump their chests every now and then (sorry it's almost 4am and I'm at work - excuse the grumpyness). It's unfortunately up to each individual breeder to regulate their output. I plan to breed my mares back in '08, however, depending on who I still have from the '07, '08, '09 foaling seasons I may not breed any back for 2010. But, I only have 2 mares that I breed so that's probably not the answer to your question.

Well I certainly think that is the truth, I've always said it's just for the money. Can any breeder on here say they DON'T breed for the money? Yet they are the first ones to preach DON'T BREED, DON'T BREED!! It blows my mind. OH!

 

[Shari]

Biggest problem are not the good breeders but the big Horse "Puppy" Mill breeders that breed junk and sell to who ever and those folks are not on this list. Those kind of breeders are the ones to pump out tons of horses with out care to where they go to.

Me... like I would say most of the breeders here. I only breed sometimes..my last foal is still here. We are also very careful to find very good homes for our horses. I know where all but one of my horses are and how they are doing. In 30 years loosing only track of one is pretty good. Don't like it but until the owner transfers his papers in his name....but I will keep looking.

There are horses like Icelandic's,,, their prices are not coming down..doubt they will, there are too few of them to add to the horse population problem. Same with other rare breeds of horses. Demand for trained Icelandics are still higher than horses avaialble.

Until there are controls of the junk breeders nothing is going to change. Look at QH, Arabs, TB and so on...

I must rather have good breeders, bred good quality horses and be able to buy those types, than just buy puppy mill horses.

 

[Jill]

Well I certainly think that is the truth, I've always said it's just for the money. Can any breeder on here say they DON'T breed for the money? Yet they are the first ones to preach DON'T BREED, DON'T BREED!! It blows my mind. OH!

Based on what I plan to ask for my foals IF they are all that I hope, and the cost of taking care of my mares, vetting, etc... I'm not going to be making a profit so I think I can say I am NOT breeding for money. The sale of the foals (if I even decide to sell them!) will offset some of the expenses but I'm not in it for money. It's hard work taking care of and raising horses. I'm into my career, in part, for the money. It's easier and the pay is A LOT better. The horses are a passion for many serious breeders and their main motivation is to produce good horses.

 

[maestoso]

I wonder how many of you have seen the manner in which horses are slaughtered. The abuse that they receive in the hours leading to their horrible death far outweighs the abuse that some horses receive in private homes. Maybe I would feel differently if the slaughtering were more humane, but it isn't and that is fact.

Im not going to comment on the breeding thing, because this subject keeps coming up and everyone here has said their piece time and time again. My only opinion now is that I think everyone should take responsibility for their OWN herd, small or large, and make the decisions that you feel is best. But if you really feel the breed is overpopulated, perhaps the solution should start with you, rather than waiting for everyone else to stop their breeding, why don't you set an example and stop your own first.

As far as slaughter, I would like to share the process, for anyone who doesn't.

First is the travel. Horses are loaded onto enlarged stock trailers. They are overloaded. The horses barely have room to move. If they go to the bathroom it is practically on another horses, that is how packed they are. The trips on the trailers sometimes lasted for several hours and the horses were never fed and were never given water. Some horses died during travel and they were left there, in the trailer, with all of the other live horses. Upon arriving at the slaughter house they were put into holding corrals, if they were still alive anyway. When it was their turn they would be brought in. One common practice for "sedating" the horse was to stab it in the back several times, this would paralyze it, but the animal was still very much alive. It was then hung by its back hooves upside down. Then its throat was slit, most times the horses were still alive when they had to endure this, and then they bled to death.

I for one am happy that the slaughter houses were banned, and anyone who is OK letting a horse experience this process should think what it would be like enduring it themselves.

If there was a slaughter house, that did it differently, humanely, safe travel, clean kill, food, water, etc, etc, than maybe I feel differently about THAT particular one. But any hat I had read about didn't waste their time or money on being nice to the horse.

Why not humanely euthanize any horse who wouldn't have a fair shot at a good life? Why would you WANT slaughter?