Questions about training Foals

[mmmorgans]

I just want to say welcome to the wonderful world of miniature horses. You have done research and have come to the right place for continuing information. I am sorry that Charlotte has been in tears over what people have said. I'm sure you will do the right thing and will love these little horses with all of your heart. If you need some help, please don't hesitate to email me or call me - just pm me for my number. We all have to start somewhere and you are asking questions so that you will do the right thing.

Don't get offended by some comments - there are lots of people that just haven't figured out the polite way to voice their opinions.

Keep asking questions - that is the best way to learn - read lots of books too - you will figure out what works best for your situation. Good luck and again - welcome and congratulations on your new additions to your family.

 

[tagalong]

OH MY GOSH ENOUGH !!!!!!! BACK OFF!!!!

HUH?? Back off??!!

I for one have trouble many times putting my thoughts down on a message board and trying to find the right words to use, but come on folks, some of you have your claws out and fangs showing and you know it!

No - I do not "know it".... and I only offered suggestions and my opinion - I did not have the claws out and no fangs were showing. Frankly - the way some of you jump on some of us who may have concerns is the rudest stuff said in this thread. Telling people how to post and what they are allowed to say and what concerns they are "allowed" to have.... and PMing them to tell them to shut up....

God forbid they got in trouble tonite with their horses but were too scared to come back here for help because your wrath. You are going to run them off like so many others have been run off of here so knock it off.

Wrath??? What wrath??! I saw no wrath in this thread - except perhaps what some of you have directed at some of us who shared our concerns - because we cared about the people and horses involved. Marty - I think that perhaps as you said - you did not find the right words....

Speaking for myself - I have never run anyone off this forum.... and I am one of the original members.See the member number to the left?? I have been raked over the coals at times for not having the "right" opinion, though...

Welcome to the wonderful world of message boards, Charlotte & John.

:

Anyway.... I agree completely with what Lisa said here...

I dont know that I would catch them every time you go in there, in fact I often go into the pen and sit down on the ground or a chair and just sit there. I have with harder to convince foals just sat and read a book- foals by nature are very curious and really cant stand it for long they will have to come up to you. When they do.. I dont even reach out for a pet at first Ilet them check out the book the chair my shoe.. then I pick up and leave. Every day depending on how quickly they come to me I do more a scratch- a pet but I always am the one to walk away after just a few days of doing this a couple times a day they are fine coming right up to me for scratches and pets and they usually do it pretty quick before I decide to leave. Once I have that done then the halter and such is easy sometimes I put the halter on, pet scratch and then take it off and walk away, others I lead them, sometimes I groom them I dont always make it the same thing and dont always make it seem like something not fun (compared to running and playing with there friend)

Usually if I take my time and do it slowly and make my being out there something pleasant and I leave before they want me to (that seems to be a key part for me) then on the days when I dont have time to take such a long time and I need to just go and catch it isnt such a big deal to them.

Just my advice from my own experience.

Well said.

A few years ago, I bought a very nervous 2 year old Icelandic gelding who had been handled very little - and night after night I simply stood quietly in the corner of his box stall and read my book aloud.... as he plunged about and fretted. If he got close - I would scratch him or pet him lightly.... and in time he realized that I was not a threat... and that having me around was actually....kinda fun. Being scratched and stroked... was cool. Having your halter go on and off was a good thing! And in less than a week he was calling to me... and coming up to me... but I always made sure that I broke the contact first - that it was my idea and not his.

Charlotte & John - here is a little experiment you can do.... the best way to get foals to come up to you - is get below their eye level. Now if you had Clydesdale foals it would be a lot easier :bgrin ... but sit down or kneel - as Lisa said. They cannot help but come over and sniff and investigate. Chat away to them... stroke if they will let you... and then make sure that you decide when the session ends - not them. You leave before thy do... what's the saying?? - always leave them wanting more!! :bgrin

If you have them haltered.... slip the lead shank around their neck when you take their halter off - and do not let them simply pull away... scratch their itchy spot - make them relax and enjoy it - slip the rope off from around their neck but keep scratching... and then you move away from them...

And as I tell my students at the therapeutic riding center... speak to them as if you are falling asleep... in a soothing, sing-song way that trails doooown at the end of the sentence... goood boooooy... whoa noooooow .... almost as if you are sleepy. Let out a big breath slowly... to relax you - and the foal as well... watch and you will likely see them working their lips and relaxing... "chewing on the thought", so to speak....

:

Nathan, How could you let such a thing like that happen right next door to you??

I'm not Nathan... and I do not play him on TV.... but I can try and answer this. I have spent many years working in the horse industry... not just a hobby or for fun... not owning my own place... not breeding my own stock... but working on many different farms in a variety of disciplines. The scenario Nathan described happens All. The. Time. Over and over again...

No one "lets" it happen. You try to help. But some people always know better - and suddenly they are in over their heads and everything is going wrong and they just dump everything and get out of horses completely. It is not easy, this life in service to the horse. There is great joy - but also tragedy and indifference ... and when you see the same mistakes being made over and over again, as with Nathan's tale, and try to help only to get brushed aside... it is disheartening... and very, very frustrating at times....

ETA:

The moisture content tolerances are very different between 1200lb bales and 40lb bales. Too much and you'll ferment it; too little and it'll combust. The tolerances are much higher in smaller bales since they can breathe better than the larger, more compact bales. PROPERLY baled hay doesn't matter how its baled, but improperly baled hay has a much greater chance of being healthy and nutritious if stored in smaller bales.

Bolding mine. That was my point...

:

Square bales - especially the condensed ones for the overseas markets - can also ferment/go moldy very quickly - if not properly put up...

 

[Brandi*]

Although I don't feel that I was rude with my first post I just wanted to clarify that when I suggested gelding the little guy it was because I personally would feel uncomfortable having a stud right off the bat.

: Ultimately they are your horses and you know what you are comfortable with. Cheers to you for starting a new chaper in life and setting goals for yourself. :aktion033: If you are up for the challenges then go for it

: It kinda goes back to what our parents used to tell us..."don't ever let anyone tell you, you can't do something". You can achieve anything you want and with a little research,work and real life experiences it will all work out. We all learn as we go. Like someone said previously, just try to read all the advice offered and pick out what will work for you. Again good luck and welcome to the forum!!! :saludando:

P.S.

In everyday life, when we talk to people face to face we wouldn't usually pry the way we are here. You asked a specific question about catching them and keeping them from getting too attached and we ran 50 million other directions with it. For that I do apologize

:

 

[honeycomb max]

First of all Welcome!!!!!!!!!

Second - for right now simply Love your little ones!!!!!!!!!!!

Third - to all the responses that were so negative - just remember this - no one and I mean no one was born knowing anything about minis - we all had to learn.

Fourth - do try and find a mentor - they are a wealth of knowledge

Fifth - not only are your new ones trying to get acquainted with you they are also trying to get acquainted with each other. Just take time to be with them - talk to them - let them know that you are going to be their best friend - and most of all enjoy them.

Then take the next step and separate them - but for right now let the babies be babies.

You have to be the parents - so if you see a behavior that you would need to correct - in a gentle manner correct it. They will understand.

And to your wife - please tell her that I am sorry - no one has the right to offend on this forum - and some of the posts were simply mean.

Millie

 

[Nathan Luszcz]

[quote

like the six next door to me who's owner had a horse with a hoof abscess, a still birth that claimed the life of the "non-pregnant" mare, and all of a sudden had a huge crash and is giving away all the horses on the property because they realized how over their heads they got themselves. Three years of peace and quiet, not a single problem, then these minor issues that any moderately experienced horseperson could have addressed, and the household is in panic mode because they have no idea how to deal with the situation. .

quote]

Nathan, How could you let such a thing like that happen right next door to you??

John

Cuz its not quite literally next door, its down the street, and its none of my business unless someone comes asking me. You can't tell emotions and feelings by driving by a farm.

 

[Willow Glen]

WELCOME WITH A BIG SMILE FROM ME :bgrin , Well I just read what everyone has wriiten and some comments made my mouth drop with surprise at the complete rudeness, They came on for a simple question and I NO some warning signs may have poped up but the rude way they were said was just silly I think some people woke up on the wrong side of the bed and needed to vent, You are able to give people advice without putting them down and making them feel stink I guess it depends on how ya want people to percive you and besides being rude to someone dosent really make them want to listen to ya advice dose it!, put yourself in there shoe's, SOME things that have been said could have been done in a non attaking informative way, And I am so pleased that there are people that have posted informative that is correct and non threatning and welcoming, If I was them I would think twice about posting anymore, I HOPE thou this is not the case and that thou they see some people can be very tackless ( and maybe they just dont realise that they come across this way) but that the majority of people are welcoming and nice to no with great FRIENDLY advice that although might not be what some people want to hear but is said in a nice way so the people will heed there advice and think about what has been said and take it on board, I think you have done a great thing asking and finding out all the info ya need to no there are some people in this world who wouldnt and I feel thay are the people that need the verble attacking not the one's who take the time to ask, Good luck and do listen to the people who have given great advice there is certinly alot out there.

 

[Suzie]

Welcome to the mini horse world. Everyone has to start somewhere. You will find that some here have very strong opinions, some just want to answer your questions. Either way, you can get some good information here.

We found that separating our fencing by a 3 foot walk path (like a channel between the fences) works well. We use welded wire and run a string of electric along the bottom to deter them from rubbing butts, etc on the wire and breaking it down. They can see each other, but not reach through to pull manes, etc.

I will add that when working with weanlings such as yours, never let them go if they start backing up and pulling away from you when you are done. It is so tempting to turn loose of them when they pull back. But it gives them the idea that when they want free, all they have to do is pull away. If you make them give into you and stand still before letting go, they learn that is what they need to do to have things work. Watch some of the big horse training programs on RFD TV. Lots of times they will give great advice on starting a young horse in training.

I strongly advise you to get a book, Miniature Horses, their care, breeding and coat colors by Barbara Naviaux. I have read it cover to cover many times. It covers a lot of your questions and things you may not have even thought about yet.

As far as breeding, you have some time to look at your stallion and filly and decide. Breeding is not for the faint of heart. Believe me, as time goes on and you learn more and develop an experienced "eye" you may change your mind, maybe not. Only you can decide. The only bit of advise I will give you on that is if you breed a foal, it is your responsibility to see that it has a good life. That is a heavy burden if you look down the line. These little guys can live a long time and you want to be sure you can give it a good home or be assured you can place it in one. Have a foal can be the most wonderful experience in the world or the most heartbreaking one.

You might want to attend some mini shows and evaluate what you see and then objectively compare your guy and your gal with what you see before breeding. As you will find out, being barn blind is the easiest thing in the world to be! We all do it.

This is a great place to learn, but you must use your own gut feelings sometimes too.

:

 

[justjinx]

Welcome, Charlotte and John, from Pondlake Stables in South Central Wisconsin!

Please enjoy your new minis and they will return your kindness and love ten-fold!

jennifer :saludando:

 

[Field-of-Dreams]

Another awesome book, if you can find it, (it may be out of print) is called A Horse Around the House by Margaret Campbell Self. It is highly readable, geared to the brand-new horse owners. It is for big horses, but everything is applicable to the little ones, too. It would be worth it to find a copy. She has good, down-to-earth information.

Lucy

 

[MiLo Minis]

Hi Charlotte and John Congratulations on your new Minis and I am sure you will have many years of enjoyment with them and learn a ton along the way.

One way to catch a horse is to walk him down. When there are two or more together this gets more difficult but it can be done and it is a very good tool to use - teaches them that no matter what they are going to be caught so they may as well just stand every time. It also teaches them that you are in charge and they must respect you.

This is best done in a smaller area so if yours are in a large field build a corral area (temporary) and herd them into it. If you can separate one into this smaller area GREAT!

: If you can get them into a stall -even better!

Set aside the entire day to work on this. The important thing is to actually TOUCH the horse before you give up.

Now walk towards the horse. Notice how if you step toward their hip they will move forward. If you step toward their shoulder they will move back. This can be very subtle - you don't even need to move your feet once you really get the hang of it. Horses are herd animals and move off the bodies of their herdmates - you are their herdmate. You must strive to be the boss horse that they respect and listen to and move from. You can hold them in place by placing your body at the balance point of their body somewhere between their shoulder and hip.

Notice also that if you stride boldly towards them chest first and standing tall you will push them away. If you turn your body sideways to them and mosey up to them slowly with your eyes downcast they are far less likely to run.

Don't let them stop and graze. Keep them moving unless they offer to stand and let you come closer. The trick is to make it "your" decision for them to move or allow them to stand. Work away at getting close to them using these tools and eventually you will be able to put your hands on them. I find foals, being as curious as they are, come to it quicker than older animals. Don't even attempt to grab their halter. Once you do get your hands on them be very gentle and quiet, give them a gentle rub on the shoulder, a scratch on the withers and walk away. Keep them in the small pen. Tomorrow come out and do it again. Continue with this until they come to you when you go out to the pen. This can take a while, days or weeks but it is a lesson that will stay with them forever and will come in handy for you during training later on.

Of course if there is need for veterinary care in the meantime you will have to forcibly catch and restrain them and then have to work past that after they are taken care of. One of the important things to learn is when you need to be firm and aggressive or gentle and passive. Each horse has his own character and each sex has their own peculiarities. Stallions are completely different from geldings or mares to handle. They take a very careful hand, someone firm enough that they respect them but not so domineering that they resent them. Somewhere between the age of 1 and 2 you can expect that adorable little colt to test his manhood on you and you need to be prepared to assert yourself. Mares in season or with a foal can be a major pain to handle - suddenly your sweet little horse is running you over or dragging you away, biting or kicking. Geldings on the other hand are, more often than not, less likely to exhibit these types of behaviour and that is why a gelding is a good place for a beginner to start.

Good luck with your horses and feel free to contact me for help or advice.

 

[Katiean]

We did train our mare that was abused to walk down and used the command "Easy Whoa". We can now walk up to the mare. When we got her the former owner was running her with a halter and lead rope in a stall. I kept the halter on for a couple of days and I thought "just where is she gonna go? She is in a stall." I took the halter off. She has needed to learn trust of people. She is doing well. Now when we catch her out in the pen we walk to her saying "easy whoa" with arms out just far enough so she can see the halter. Sometimes she just stands there. Sometimes we have to walk to the corner of the pen where she will wait for us. But we always use a quiet but firm voice.

 

[Buckskin gal]

Welcome to the forum, Charlotte and John. I just want to add, you have received a lot of advice here and it is all worthy of consideration. I know it is easy for some of us to get our feelings hurt by what someone may say but in the long run I think you will see that most all members intend to be of help and sometimes we have to learn to consider the advice or leave it. I have learned from first coming on this forum that there are some very strong opinions and there are some that have excellent advice that has helped me tremendously. If we try hard to think that all advice is worthy of consideration but all of it may not work for us we stay a little more balanced. Just try to keep an open mind and understand that different people have different ways of doing things ....we decide what will work best for ourselves. Please don't feel offended if someone suggests you geld your colt or not do any breeding.....there is a whole lot to it and it is something that needs to be taken seriously. Dry those eyes now and enjoy and learn from some of the best. Mary

 

[MInx]

OK I came back here to read this post,

(MArty! You as usual are SO wise..Good for you. )

The others who responded so negativily..

I'm not going to say what I want to but I will say this...

"school just started, how would you feel if your kids teacher responded like this the first time THEY asked a question?! SHame on you, lets get back to what this forum is about, comon' people!

Charlotte and John, you stick around, the best is yet to come!

Maxine

 

[Nathan Luszcz]

My teachers did, when I did something like this, and it made me a better person who was better able to do well in school and in life. Sometimes a wake up call is needed, especially from someone (or some people) who have already made the same mistake and want only the best for other people so that they don't have to suffer through the same mistake.

 

[ChrystalPaths]

Dear Charlotte and John, I can feel how very much you love your new furkids and applaud you looking for more info. LB really is a wonder of information and comraderie truely. Like KayKay I would be more than happy to help in any small way with anything you need, just PM or email or even phone if need be. I'm no expert, no vet, no PHD but have over 25 yrs of equine experience and am happy to share.

There is nothing like the foals. Their curious natures, their spunkiness, their love. Dry your tears and go get a nice bucket or chair and just sit and chat with each of them. Talk to them like they were young toddler children. They need to know they can love and trust you as much as you want to love and trust them.

Colts are great. Full of mischief and frisk, as are the fillies but I find fillies listen closer. Use a small vocabulary of wants. Stand, quit, here or walk up, wait, wanna cookie? I use them all and have some very nice furkids and have had and raised many a youngster. You'll get bumps and bruises and then what you want will click and those glowing moments will make the hardships fade away.

Sounds like you have more than enough hay and plan to feed it the right way. Be sure to smell each armful before laying it down to be sure it smells "right". Not mildewy or funky, you'll know. Make two piles.

I had to separate my Glow from the girls by Jan of his first year. I was lucky and had a stallion that took him under his wing. I use hot wire for fencing and even my hormone charged stallion respects it. As for gates, I wrap snow fence on them so no "unauthorized" breeding ever take place. That said, there was that one time when Glow was 1 1/2 and he smelled a mare in heat and broke that hotwire down fast. Luckily I was there but he did hurt me. You just have to be aware. Watch for him acting studly.

I see no reason why you can't have both a colt and filly as long as you know the dangers and take the precautions. Our Karla, BarnBum has a shed that is divided down the center and it works great, I've seen it and can ask her to send you a pic if you'd like.

So, welcome to the glory and pain of owning the wonderful miniature horse. I hope we'll see more of you and I would love to see these darlins. What are their names? Colors? Temperments? I have never shown, I've never been a big breeder and never will be. But I did my homework before getting started and it sounds like you are trying to do the same. They are fresh from their momma's and homes so you have to earn their trust. Scritching them is a super way to say, "hi, I'm nice". Remember talk to them alot, touch them all the time and "everywhere...privates, feet, mouths, teeth, eyes, ears. They'll be in your pocket in no time!

One last thing..check our Breeders page and see if anyone is in your area. It's nice to have someone close if needed. and we'll always be here too.

 

[Sterling]

Welcome to the forum Charlotte and John from southern NJ! :saludando:

There has been some good advice given without the glint of rudeness. I'm so sorry you have been railed for coming on, sharing your little ones and asking questions. Your intentions and questions are good ones and you came to this forum to learn and I hope you decide to stay and share.

I have a 9 year old "cream-puff" who I got as a colt at the age of 5 months old. He grew into a stallion and I can testify that not "ALL" colts will have those terrible two episodes. At the age of 6 we gelded him, because we were'nt going to breed him and I had different plans for him. All thru his years he has remained a consistant personality of gentleness and respect from day one. He has never kicked out at anyone, nipped or charged, even when having mares on the property. I realize that there are not many out there like that....but mine is so I know it's possible. I don't believe it's fair for anyone to tell anyone else what they should or should'nt do with their horses. Just as everyone who loves horses and goes into horsekeeping, I know you will learn and take the very best care of your new little ones. I also agree with finding a mentor who can take you through the process...does'nt even have to be someone close by to you. But someone who you can rely on to gently walk you thru any problems you may be having and not belittle you as you go. The worst feeling in taking on a new responsibility is making you feel as tho you are clueless, which you are not...you have been doing your research and that's an excellent start!

:

Please don't be afraid to share with us your pictures and progress. And as others have stated....I too want to warmly welcome you to the world of miniature horses. If you should want to PM me or email me please feel free to do so. Good luck with your new little babies. I think you will find as the years go on, they will be a very important part of your life!

~Cheyenne~

 

[slv]

WOW, Charlotte and John, I just actually read this post after seeing the second post and the sweet photo of you with your new foals. So sorry that you had to hear all of this negativity. Some of the folks on here were really nice and supportive though. As in anything else, there are mostly really great folks on here but a few can be (trying to be diplomatic here) blunt......

Anyway, congratulations on your two miniature foals. I have loved every minute spent with my minis. Yes, there are tough times but the good far out weigh the bad.

My favorite reading in this post was one line by txmini - saying

" Anything that eats while you sleep costs you money. "

That really sticks out in my mind as I just never thought of it that way!!!!! I do know I spend a lot on hay and grain though!!!!!

:

 

[Bassett]

Charlotte and John, Welcome from Western Wisconsin. You will enjoy this forum a lot. Much good information here. I'm just so sorry that your first experience here is so bad. There really are a lot of very nice people on here and a lot of experience. All you can do is pick out the pieces that seem to fit your situation. But don't let this stop you from asking questions. You have two very nice little foals there. They are so precious. I myself started out with 3 (1 filly and 2 geldings) all only babies born in 2006. They were 1, 3, 5 months old when I got them. I had so much to learn and still do and got much good information from this forum. Sounds to me like you have a very good start by asking questions. We have to do that. No question is dumb. Remember that. I can tell by your expression on the picture you posted that you are TOTALLY in love. Believe in yourself. You will do great. Again welcome.

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[slv]

Nathan, I find you rude and obnoxious. I don't know why more people don't come out and just tell you so. I know that they think it. I know by your tone that you feel you are an expert but I discovered very early on by a post on this forum that you were not.

You posted (rudely I might add) on a post that I made on here and was absolutely WRONG!!!!!!!

I made a post about some beginner friends of mine that purchased a bred mare. She had a dystocia. The foal was born alive but mare retained the placenta for over 48 hours without the vet EVER even trying to manually stimulate the uterus to get it out. You rudely stated that a placenta can NOT EVER be manually extracted. I agree a beginner better not try to do it, BUT DO KNOW THAT IT HAS BEEN DONE LOTS AND LOTS OF TIMES BY PROFESSIONALS.

That is the day that you lost credibility with me as an EXPERT. I just think it is time that someone lets you know!!!!!!!

You need to lay off of these people that are trying to get started into minis. Geez it is tough enough out there without someone who only owns ONE mini trying to tell everyone else what to do.

 

[Nathan Luszcz]

No, I said that it should never be attempted to be removed except by a veterinarian who has previous experience doing it. Its a very delicate task, one that can be fatal if done overenthusiastically. A private horse owner should never, ever attempt the task of removing it from the uterous. Passive assistance through a weighted bucket/jug is all that should be attempted by a layperson.

I do have one mini. I'm not a trainer. I've never denied either points.

I think I'm done here

Its just not worth my time to listen to all the people with problems and watch people try and try and get pats on the head and say "that's okay, even though you are the rudest thing on the planet, we know you mean well". My time is better spent waxing the beater farm truck

I think I've decided that mini people are another breed completely; I don't fit in.