Qualifying for AMHR Nationals

[JMS Miniatures]

Ok so there is a couple of observations I have made this year I wanted to ask. The entries at Nationals this year were HUGE! Its nice to see over 1600 horses there, don't know the official count, but it was more then last year. IMO we're running out of room in Tulsa. While the barn manager was helping me find my stalls he told me that 3 people didn't have stalls. All the barns were full. So got me thinking instead of just going too 2 shows under 4 judges maybe they should increase it to at least 3 shows? Get more people to local shows, and if people still want to go to Nationals they will make that extra trip to show. Or make it based on a points system and say you just can't go into a color class to qualify and you can't drop down from a driving class to show in a another division at Nationals. I still say they need to keep the youth qualifying the same. I think they just need to make it to where you go to one more show to qualify.

Or should they just keep it the same and if they run out of room your just SOL?

 

[Jill]

Heck, I thought we all found out in 2008 that they have no way to even track if horses qualified or not. We had horses who hadn't qualified showing and winning. So ...

 

[minimomNC]

Sorry to tell you, but the barns were not full. I was in barn E, way out there and I saw several rows with no horses and no assignments. With 10 stalls per side that was 20 stalls per row and I know of at least 3 or 4 rows with no horses. So anywhere from 60 - 80 empty stalls in one barn alone. Now, I am sure the other barns were full, heck there were three stalls reserved across out aisle that no one ever used yet we were told they had checked in, so where did they go?

As for more shows to qualify, we were there on a thin shoestring. We camped in a stall. We cooked most of our meals. It still cost me over $2000 to take just two horses, if I have to go to one more local show to qualify, it will take away what I can spend go to Nationals. I think for now, it should stay the same or the people that have to save to go, might not get to go at all.

 

[JMS Miniatures]

I was in the same barn and it seemed full to me, I know people came and went. I don't know why the guy said that they were out of stalls then. Also the same barn they didn't have any names on them to begin with when I was there.

 

[squeaky]

JMO - I have never been to Nationals, so don't personally know how full the barns were, etc. But just from hearing the numbers and stories from the people who have been there to show and such, I do think the qualifying needs to change. 50+ horses in liberty, and it starts around or after midnight...How can you expect the judges to judge a class this big and remember the entries who go in first? Then you want them up bright and early the next day to judge classes until 2 in the following morning for a week. Just doesn't seem right to the judges, show management or the exhibitors or horses. Seems like there could be a better way of qualifying, but I am not sure what it is. I understand MinimomNC with being on a shoestring budget. That is why I haven't gone to Nationals yet, as coming from Washington will cost around $2000 for a few classes with one horse. But every year I hear how entries are up, and class sizes are huge and how late the nights were. While it is awesome, it still seems like we are asking alot from our judges, and then get upset if they don't look at every horse in the class...

Again, just my opinion from reading the numbers and seeing results and such.

Amanda

 

[Minimor]

I firmly believe that qualification requirements should change. I don't know as the number of qualifying shows need to increase, but I do think that if you want to show in a driving class then you should have to QUALIFY in a driving class. I think it is silly that you can show in color classes at two shows and then go to Nationals and show in anything and everything.

I think it should also be that you qualify in the division that you'll show in at Nationals. I've had people tell me that the idea is you show your horse in pleasure driving at the local shows, then at Nationals you put him into Country Pleasure. No. I don't agree with that. Either you have a country pleasure horse or you have a pleasure driving horse--if he's a country pleasure horse at Nationals then he should be country pleasure anywhere.

I also don't see any point at all in going to Nationals, picking your music the day of the class and then putting your horse into Liberty. If you can't put a little more effort into it prior to Nationals then you shouldn't really be in the class at Nationals. People actually do choose their music in advance, play it through a few times with the horse in the arena at home just to get a feel for how it looks, how the music suits the horse, etc.

I get that people want to be able to go to Nationals and enter into anything and everything but really...in many breeds the thinking is that if you can't cut it in the class at the local shows there is no point in trying to do it at Nationals. If Mini owners took the same view the driving classes at Nationals wouldn't have so many horses that look dull and disinterested in their work.

 

[JMS Miniatures]

I would be all for qualifying for points. I know AMHR would defintelly need a new system as I don't think their current one is working either. It will straighten up alot of these driving classes.

 

[Flying minis]

So, I can see both sides of the fence. I love that there are so many horses at Nationals, and a big part of that is the qualification requirements (or lack of them). Remember, when it comes down to it, more entries make the show profitable, so by being able to enter more classes, that definately helps the overall balance sheet of the show. For youth and ammy, I wouldn't change a thing.

However, I agree that in open, you should actually have to SHOW in the national class at a local show, and also show in the same division at nationals that you showed in locally. I know this would be tough to track without a system capable of it, but really, we can see what classes horses showed in on the results page of the website, so I would assume that you could at least check that? And maybe not full checks, but have exhibitors sign that the horse is qualified, then randomly spot check (and yes, that can be done in an unbiased way, you just take a statistical sampling method and apply it to the exhibitor numbers, let the computer randomly generate the numbers to check, and check them to see if they exhibited in that division - typical sampling number for most statistical methods is square root of n plus 1 where n is the number of entries). That would make it less work. If you found someone who wasn't qualified, harsh penalty (similar as for random drug testing). If someone wants to protest a horse isn't qualified, put down their money like any other protest. Doesn't seem to tough to figure out.

THEN, if that doesn't drop the class sizes a little, deal with the split sizes and scheduling. I saw 33 horses in one class - no way were judges able to judge that one well, no matter how hard they tried. It was just too big (and not terribly safe either). When they have 2 sets of judges, one for halter and one for performance, each set of judges will at least get a break on the days where part of the day is halter and part is performance, but the show management still doesn't get that break. And the youth and ammy judges don't get a break at all (although they don't judge as many days either.) No matter what the solution, someone will be upset. Adding days, adding a second ring, etc. are all possibilities, but each has benefits and drawbacks. Personally, I wouldn't want to be in the shoes of the show organizers, they are in a "danged if you do, danged if you don't" situation.

 

[drivinghoss]

I don't think we should change the qualifying for Nationals. However the schedule needs to be redone as the same classes every year need to be split. They could have the preliminaries and then the final at a different time. also why back the horses twice...if they backed in the preliminary they probably will in the final and if they dont back in the preliminary they should not make the final.

 

[ruffian]

OK this is MOO. My own opinion. AMHR Nationals is a great show because there AREN'T a lot of restrictions. AMHA has a lot of restrictions (qualifications, points, etc) and they are dying. I heard that there were only 360 horses entered, and I heard that they had 800 stalls rented. I don't know if either are accurate, but even if either one is, it's bad.

The way the show is run (NOT MANAGED - LEONARD D DOES A FANTASTIC JOB).

My ideas:

1. Put the "individual" classes in a separate ring. Hunter, jumper, liberty, halter obstacle, driving obstacle. Any class that is judged on points of the performance and not against the other exhibitors, so to say. Set a time range that the class is being ran. For example, hunter is going to run on Tuesday morning from 8 until noon. All hunter classes. Exhibitor shows up or reserves a time slot for when they can show. That gives them the chance to work around their other classes showing. If you can't make that time slot or do a walk up, sorry. might be you are in too many classes. Exhbitors run the patterns posted for their class. So youth classes might have a different path, as does ammy and open, but the set up is the same. This could be made to work. Maybe do a video walk through with show officials. These are not real difficult courses like full size hunter courses. Have the performance judges do the morning sessions, and the halter judges do the later classes. This would free up so much time overall. Going until 3 or 4 am is ridiculous.

Any driving classes with more than 30 horses must be split. The rules state that splits must be posted 24Hr in advance, but they weren't. It was just prior to the classes that they were posted.

Any driving class with 15 or more entries MUST reverse on the diagonal. This is a safety issue!!!

Classes must not start after midnight. A class already in the ring would continue, but no other classes would be allowed to run that evening. If the 2nd ring is allowed, I don't believe this would even be an issue any more.

Oh - the INN at Expo Square should have ARMED security!!! OK OK maybe not this one but sure would have been nice instead having to have my truck window fixed and all the glass cleaned out.

 

[midnight star stables]

I was really upset about one thing with the Youth classes... A friend of my showed her horse all year, but didn't get to drive him in a show until the last two shows of the year up here in Ontario. Her first time driving any horse in competition. The first time out she put him in CPD and just barely placed - it was expressed that this horse was WCPD, and not CPD. The next show, she showed in WCPD and walked away with the stake wins under both judges. The problem? National entries were due a month earlier, and her horse was entered in CPD. She was not aloud to move her horse to the correct class and IMO that is wrong. I can understand not adding horses to youth classes, but it should be aloud that pre-entered horses can adjust their class!

I show a lot in the US because there really only is 4 (might be loosing one next year too) shows and with the exception of one in July, all the other shows are in August, after National entries are due. Many of my fellow showers don't travel to the US to show... So where does that leave them?

 

[Field-of-Dreams]

I show a lot in the US because there really only is 4 (might be loosing one next year too) shows and with the exception of one in July, all the other shows are in August, after National entries are due. Many of my fellow showers don't travel to the US to show... So where does that leave them?

Doesn't matter, you can still use those August shows to qualify for that current year. It's any show AFTER the National show that bump the qualification to the next year. Just write it on the form like any other show.

 

[Charlotte]

OK this is MOO. My own opinion. AMHR Nationals is a great show because there AREN'T a lot of restrictions. AMHA has a lot of restrictions (qualifications, points, etc) and they are dying. I heard that there were only 360 horses entered, and I heard that they had 800 stalls rented. I don't know if either are accurate, but even if either one is, it's bad.

Yes Ruffian, you are wrong. I haven't heard a recent count, but as of several weeks ago there were around 800 horses entered and over 1,000 stalls rented. WHERE do you get the idea that AMHA is dying???? (actualy, registrations have taken quite a jump this year)

 

[targetsmom]

I admit I have never gone to either Nationals or Worlds, but I do think I understand the qualifying rules pretty well. Just FYI, for AMHA you do not HAVE to qualify based on points. For the last several years and again for 2012 (or until they change it) for AMHA you can qualify through Hardship qualifying under "reasonable attempt" by showing in 2 shows under 6 judges. But you must show in the same classes you enter at Worlds. I know plenty of people attending the World Show that qualify this way all the time.

 

[ruffian]

Yes Ruffian, you are wrong. I haven't heard a recent count, but as of several weeks ago there were around 800 horses entered and over 1,000 stalls rented. WHERE do you get the idea that AMHA is dying???? (actualy, registrations have taken quite a jump this year)

I heard it from several trainers from all over the country, as well as AMHA judges at the nationals.

 

[horsefeather]

I agree with drivinghoss. After all, AMHR has to make enough money to help support the Congress.

Pam

 

[HGFarm]

I have been to Nationals in recent years when there were more horses than that and all were well accomidated. I dont think Tulsa is 'running out of room' at all.

I think it's nice that folks can qualify to go to Nationals without spending a fortune in gas driving all over to gain enough points. This is one reason I have never gone to Worlds- I cant get that much time off work to go to shows out of state since we only have one big AMHA show here per year. And now with the expense of gas and other things... folks are cracking down even more about having to not only take off work but drive to another state to show. I'm a single income household and just can't afford to travel that much any more.

Good thoughts and ideas ruffian- ditto that.

 

[valshingle]

I also agree with Ruffian. In this economy, the associations need to make it easier for us to attend shows, not harder. Because of the qualification process, I was able to bring 5 horses to R Nationals and enter them in whatever I wanted. Wow, they made it easy for me to spend money.

I was entered in several of the big driving classes. I agree that they should be split at about 20ish per class. But I felt really happy getting a 5th out of 45, or an 8th out of 54!

I don't think that it dangerous to reverse in a circle at a walk. We should all be able to do that. But Roadster should have reversed on the diagonal - it was dangerous not to have.

I also have heard rumors that there is anywhere from 300 to 800 attending Worlds. These rumors always fly around. In my experience, it's hard to get a firm number from AMHA on the attendance. I guess we'll find out soon enough.

 

[Charlotte]

Val, according to the Treasurer of AMHA the number of horses entered in World ... as of a few weeks ago... was right around 800 horses. Despite this economy the numbers are staying quite stable.

NOW, AMHA members and clubs need to get busy putting on the one day and half day local Community Shows and Youth Performance Events in all parts of the country. This will make getting those qualifying points easy and cheap and is an outstanding oportunity for Honor Roll placing and special awards also!

 

[midnight star stables]

Doesn't matter, you can still use those August shows to qualify for that current year. It's any show AFTER the National show that bump the qualification to the next year. Just write it on the form like any other show.

I'm sorry, you are missing my point. It's not the actual qualifying or entry form I disagree with.

If the horse never shows in the class prior to entries being due, then how are folks to know what class to put their horse in? This really is only in reference to "green" owners and "green" horses... But still I feel it is unfair that driving classes can't be changed after the entries are mailed (for youth anyway).