Nationals Western Pleasure driving class WIN????

[MinisOutWest]

And you saw the Bare Shoulders lady get DQ'd !!! ooppss- read your rule book...

 

[Sandee]

I also saw the one with the slit up to (holy cow) get talked to by one judge and suddenly the slit dissapeared.

 

[hairicane]

Well I showed in WCP 4 times at nat. in various classes with my big over white appy. I went to Nat. expecting to show and entered in CP but got there and my horse was so relaxed and settled he looked more WCP so I switched him over to that. I arrived with just a few outfits and none were very western looking but could not afford to go and buy an whole new showing wardrobe. I read the rules and saw western hats optional so we went out and showed hatless in the 1st 2 classes but then borrowed a hat for the last 2 classes. There were from 16 to almost 30 entries in my classes and I placed 8th,3rd and a RES. Nat Champ. and also a 3rd in the stakes Ch. class. Did I place better because of the hat? I dont think it made a difference but I will be trying to Western and Bling up my show clothes some. For our 1st time ever in that class we did pretty good I think!

 

[StarRidgeAcres]

I also saw the one with the slit up to (holy cow) get talked to by one judge and suddenly the slit dissapeared.

That slit was horrible!!! She should have gotten a talking to.

 

[Jill]

Just to shortly restate what I think is obvious, as long as the attire is not against the rules (or too revealing of body parts -- urgh), which as I posted, are very open to interpretation, the class is about the performance of the horse not a fashion statement from the driver

Destiny went on to the stakes class for the 32"-34" horses and he won Reserve National Grand Champion -- I don't want to think it's all because Murl of Parnell Training Stables was wearing a cowboy hat

 

[susanne]

...as long as the attire is not against the rules (or too revealing of body parts -- urgh), which as I posted, are very open to interpretation...

Now Jill, perhaps that was her interpretation of "Pleasure"...

 

[Jill]

Good one, Susanne!!!!!

 

[Karen S]

Good Morning All,

I would like to throw a twist into this for you to think about....

As a native Texan when I see anything referring to "Western" it immediately brings to mind western hat, gloves, starched jeans and shirts, boots, nice belts with not overly large belt buckles. Hair pulled back into show buns at the base of the ladies neck if your hair is short most will mouse their hair to keep it in place so it won't have any fly aways, not hanging straight and blowing in their faces.

Go watch a true western pleasure class and you will see what I'm talking about or get copies of some of the horse mags. I know that some think we should wear what the big girls wear at those quarter horse shows with all the glitz and glamour, but we aren't ridding our horses. I can see some really nice glitzy western apparel in the evening Western Country Pleasure driving class only if it's after 5 p.m. there again, if you are going to wear jeans make sure they are starched and preferably black.

The other side of the coin is going to be your harness. I know the rules right now are relaxed a bit so that we all can use the harnesses we are use to using, BUT if you are truly going to follow the term "Western" to a T, then you need to drive in a Western type harness as well. I noticed that Dale Lutke of D & S Harness has introduced a new "Western" style harness to his line. My thinking here is he's looking to the future with this Western Country Pleasure Driving class and it will eventually be a true Western class, so the rules in the future (could be, didn't say they were) will be updated somewhat to reflect that. If I was to drive in that class, I would put a true Western harness on my horse, dress in the approporiate western style clothes and then go from there. This could possibly be something that comes up in the future for this class.

I will tell you that I'm a perfectionist when it comes to my show clothes. I shop re-sale, end of the year, close-outs, look on E-Bay, Dollar Store, Wal-Mart, Dress Barn etc. to get the things I wear. I have gotten some pretty sweet deals on clothing and western jackets from Sergeants Western Wear that originally cost well over $400.00 and paid $75.00 when they were drastically marked down. Most of my show clothes I have been collecting over 10 years, Once I wear them at a show I then take them to the cleaners have them recleaned or starched and then put them back in hanging bags to keep them nice for the next show.

Here are some of my favorite western catalogs:

The Fort Western Apparel

Drysdale Western Apparel

Sergeants Western Wear

Rod's Western Wear

Schneiders Catalog

Tractor Supply sometimes gets some really nice things that can be worn in the show ring

Sheplers (we are lucky to have one here in Arlington Texas) but they do have a website.

Just something to think about.

Karen

 

[Jill]

Karen --

That is exciting about a Western style Lutke! I didn't know there was going to be such, but I look forward to seeing it. I love my current Lutke and look forward to seeing some of the Western types

Jill

 

[alongman]

For those of you referring to the dress with the slit in it, I would encourage you to find out what "actually" happened before you throw your two cents in. First, that was one of my drivers. She was appropriately dressed until mid-way through the class when the dress ripped. Secondly, she was a newer driver and handled it beautifully - I never knew there was a problem until she was in the line-up. Thirdly, thanks to those poor-sports out there who commented on her attire as she left the ring and made reference to her "showing a lot of leg". She has informed me that she will not drive again! I applaud your efforts - you should have been worried, she made all three cards and DID NOT GO BACK IN, instead she removed herself from the class!!!! WAY TO GO PEOPLE!

 

[stormo41]

For those of you referring to the dress with the slit in it, I would encourage you to find out what "actually" happened before you throw your two cents in. First, that was one of my drivers. She was appropriately dressed until mid-way through the class when the dress ripped. Secondly, she was a newer driver and handled it beautifully - I never knew there was a problem until she was in the line-up. Thirdly, thanks to those poor-sports out there who commented on her attire as she left the ring and made reference to her "showing a lot of leg". She has informed me that she will not drive again! I applaud your efforts - you should have been worried, she made all three cards and DID NOT GO BACK IN, instead she removed herself from the class!!!! WAY TO GO PEOPLE!

what a nightmare for her! I remember My first showmanship class ever, the judge threw me off by starting to walk counter clockwise instead of clockwise (the only way i had ever practiced) and i really messed up what side i should be on, meanwhile there was two ladies sitting right smack dab infront of me in the front row, and the one was telling the other "she should be on the other side, now she should be on that side, she is messing up, she must not know what she is doing." I was 13 or14 and at that point i never wanted to do showmanship again. I did though and every time after that it was rare for me to place less then 3rd. I hope she will show in a driving class again!

 

[minih]

I think next year I'm going to walk up to a judge and ask them at my first local show their thoughts. Of course what's one will NOT be anothers. I just want to find out how or IF they're judging JUST THE HORSE if so there's my answer and I'm not going to sweat the clothing dept anymore.

I have talked to a couple of judges about attire, it is like anything else, you get differing opinions. They are human and have their own idea of what is appropriate and how much of your attire is based on the overall points. You go for an opinion and being human none of us are happy when someone else has an opinion that is not the same as ours.

I think it is very sad that comments were made to keep the lady from going back out to drive, I wish she had had the nerve to show them all their mean comments meant nothing (even tho they would to anyone) and go back out anyway. That is the only way to stop some of the meanness. I hate it they had that kind of power.

 

[Minimor]

I was going to comment on the same thing Karen S did--the harness. If you're going to complain about the attire of the driver, then you should also complain about the harness, now that Lutkes offer the western style harness! For anyone that is nit-picking about the drivers attire, if the rules were to be changed to ensure that drivers dress western....will you be happy when those rules also change to specify that the horse's attire (harness) must be western in style, and so if you want to show in this class you have to go out and spend a few hundred dollars on the 'proper' harness?? Even if the rule doesn't actually change to specify this, if a few people do start using a "western style harness" then it may be everyone will have to go to that same style of harness to be competitive...or if you don't and you win with an ordinary harness you will be criticized by those that have put out the money for a 'proper' style of harness?

the class is about the performance of the horse not a fashion statement from the driver

As it should be, and I hope this will continue to be the case!

 

[kaykay]

Adam I am so sorry for your friend. This is a lot like the other thread of someone being bashed for what they wore when no one knew the whole story. I never comment on stuff like that as I have been to enough shows to know that there is usually a lot more to the story then what you hear or see. I have had enough things rip, buttons come off etc to know how it feels. Could happen to anyone. I hope she changes her mind and comes back stronger then ever!

 

[Field-of-Dreams]

I'd just be happy if they judged it ACCORDING TO THE RULES. I came out of one class and someone asked me if they changed the name to Cowboy Roadster. I laughed and agreed- tight checks, high heads, speedy gaits, no flat leg action in THAT class!

Lucy

Rulebook-2008

Western Country Pleasure

1. A Western Country Pleasure Driving horse should carry himself in a natural balanced position with a relaxed head and neck. His poll should be level with, or slightly above the level of the withers.

2. Maximum credit should be given to a horse with a relaxed head and neck, that carries his poll level with, or slightly above the withers, moves straight, with low strides and little flexion of the knees and hocks, with free movement, manners and a bright expression.

3. The horse shall be severely penalized if his poll is more than 5 inches above the level of the withers, is behind the vertical, is overflexed, excessively nosed out, the poll is below the withers, exhibits excessive speed or shows lack of control by the exhibitor.

4. This class will be judged 60% on the horse's performance, manners and way of going, and suitability for assuring a pleasurable drive, 30% on condition, fit and appropriateness of harness and vehicle, and 10 percent on neatness, appropriateness of attire and overall impression. Checks should be slightly loose, not snug. Excessive knee action and speed to be penalized.

 

[hobbyhorse23]

Okay, now I've got to ask. What, exactly, would constitute "Western Harness?" I look fairly regularly at QH and Paint magazines (the most Western of Western Breeds) and as far as I can tell they use the same fine harness that Saddlebreds do. As ridiculous as I find that, nevertheless- if the Western Breeds are using fine harness, who are we to insist on something different? Granted we're the only ones who are using these driving classes in place of the matching riding class instead of as an additional discipline, but still. Big horse people already have a hard time taking us seriously. I'd love to see what happens after a "Western Harness" becomes MANDATORY!!

I love to dress things up, don't get me wrong, and would think it was great fun to add nice Western conchos, maybe some silver ferrules, a themed browband, heck, even go as far as the rather cool new Lutke harness. I'm all for innovation! But how on earth would you define what a Western Harness was?? One with sheepskin padding? One with stamped leather patterns? A rawhide check? A certain amount of silver? Even in the riding arena, what is "correct turnout" for Western tack changes yearly and a saddle that was once the height of cool is now sadly out of date and tacky. (Pun intended.) Nope, I don't think you'd ever be able to specify Western turnout for the horse as well because how on earth would you quantify it?

Now one change in equipment that I truly would love to see begin in this class is for a check to become optional the same way breeching is. Those who prefer to use one could continue to do so with no penalty but those of us who hate them with a passion could leave them off. I suppose technically checks could be considered Western in that draft horses and other buckboard types may have used them but in reality checks are about as "fine harness" as you get. If we're complaining about the turnout being the same as the other classes, why don't we start with changing the most obviously unWestern thing about it??

I'd just be happy if they judged it ACCORDING TO THE RULES. I came out of one class and someone asked me if they changed the name to Cowboy Roadster. I laughed and agreed- tight checks, high heads, speedy gaits, no flat leg action in THAT class!

Given that I personally think the rules are headed the wrong way for this class, I was thrilled to death at the caliber of horses entered at Nationals! Those horses could actually MOVE, with nice long forward strides, and most of them were on the bit and using their toplines not dinking along with hollow necks and no impulsion. Now obviously when you're watching on the internet you can't see what a competitor in the ring sees so maybe the checks were tighter than is proper or the horses stepping high, but that wasn't visible on the video.

The placings were all over the place (as you'd expect, frankly) but it didn't seem to me like they consistently rewarded one type or the other. Some horses I thought were really good barely placed, others that were more what the rules said didn't place either. So who knows?

I've got to admit, my sort of Western is a reiner or cutting horse. Something that can MOVE and do it with grace and style. Western Pleasure has never been my thing.

I'd hate to see breeders start trying to produce miniature stock horses as I think the traits that work in a larger representative would only come across as short-strided and unattractive in miniature with a few rare exceptions. Obviously this is only my own opinion and is clearly biased by my own likes/dislikes. Sorry! *LOL* No matter how this class shapes up someone is going to be unhappy with it. It seems to me the only question is, "Who?"

Leia

 

[Margo_C-T]

I have slow dial-up(AND I have been MONDO busy, trying to stay ahead of weeds and mowing), so didn't even TRY to watch any of the R Nationals-though I would have liked to see some of it! This means I can't speak directly to the appearance of the way of going in the Western County Pleasure classes--but I can say that I FERVENTLY hope that the miniature registries, and maybe more importantly, the judges carded with them, do NOT try to make the way of going in the new 'Western Country'(in AMHA, the proposal is similar, the class proposed to be named 'Classic Country', if memory serves) classes 'match' the way of going in the stock horse(and yes, even the Arabian, from what I've seen) shows as they are now held! The class descriptions "sound" promising, but the judging must 'match' the stated concepts!

After showing in the world of QH, Paints, and even Pinto since the early '70s, I walked away from those when 'today's' Western Pleasure type classes became established. WP was NOT my favorite class; I especially enjoyed reining and trail, but having always liked the ALL-AROUND approach, I also did WP, West. Riding,and even Showmanship--and Halter, my least-favorite! The handwriting was on the wall; I've trained my own horses since I was 14, and there was NO WAY I'd ask a horse to go as today's WP horses go(even after 'so-called' improvements in the rules, it STILL STINKS, IMO...)--I can not STAND any idea that the mini breed shows would go to that SICKENING way of going!

What the heck is 'Western' harness? Again, I surely HOPE there will be better sense than to think that it should become 'dripping' with silver(as in the show rings cited above), in current manner! I haven't seen Dale Lutke's latest offering; will go to his website and take a look--but gotta say, a nice 'standard' carriage-driving oriented harness(like my Smuckers basic 'Pleasure' level harness, complete with BREECHING(gasp!), should fill the bill quite nicely!) 'Western' or even 'Classic Country' implies something very similar to how you might appear in an ADS Pleasure Driving class, to me-for a single, say, a road cart, with nice basic harness, NOT 'fine harness' better suited to a viceroy or minimal show cart behind a Morgan, Saddlebred, or the like. Of course, so many w/ miniatures have bought the familiar minimal 'show carts', as from Jerald, Houghton, Graber, etc.- that those would 'have to be' acceptable, I'd think--even w/ the usual pneumatic-tired wheels(though wooden would be more suitable, and because several of the show carts offer interchangable wheels, might be more often seen)--it IS important to remember that it is NOT supposed to be either a personal fashion OR a 'my equipment is fancier/flashier than yours' show(as it has largely(and sadly) become in other breed rings), but about the HORSE and its performance most suitable to the class ideal and description!!

Margo

 

[disneyhorse]

Good grief people, it's a HORSE show, not a FASHION show. That's what I always say!

Anyway, for those of you curious... here is Lutke's "western stlye" harness. I gotta say it's innovative (although I personally hate Western themed "stuff").

Dale Lutke D&S Harness Western style

Andrea

 

[Jetiki]

I have to say that I don't like that harness. The maker may put out really nice stuff but as for personal likes, hmmm won't be spending my money on it. I have one harness and it has to cover both breed shows and CDE/ADS stuff, its synthetic, I have breeching, and I won't show without breeching. But I think that harness set the stage for it to go the way of the Stock horse breeds Western Pleasure classes, I really don't want to see the minis go that way.

Karen

 

[Boinky]

i liked the looks of the photo of the lutkey western harness when it was in the journal this spring HOWEVER when i saw it on horses at nationals (and there were several)) i really didn't like it much at all. I'm not big on the whole 'western" theme stuff either HOWEVER I did make a "western" cart for nationals. It as natural wood with burned in barbed wire pin stripes, the boot cover had a fabric that looked like tooled light oil saddle leather, and it had concho's and tassles on the shafts. I got a lot of nice comments on it. I figure the class seems to be oing towards the 'western theme" might as well capitolize on it. i DO NOT ever want to see our mini's moving like WP QH's and such. what a shame that would be. i was delighted to see for the most part he judges were placing good moving horses over slow,plugy on the forehand horses at nationals and i hope that continues!!