Input on stallion

[capall beag]

As a new member and a person new to mini's not horses but mini's.

When I say PLEASE critique OPINIONS wanted, that is WHAT I MEAN!!!!!!!!!!!!!

The good the bad and the ugly.

You can say "pretty mane", "plain head", "pretty colour", "weak shoulder" or wahtever else you see!!!!!!!!!!! It is your opinion.

I am mature enough to ignore what is irrelevant to me, like what someone else would do with my horse, and learn from what knowledge people have gained through years of experience, breeding and showing.

The WONDERFUL thing about this forum is the wealth of information you can gather.

Be yourself and just give your opinions!!

In life some people are funny, some rude, some abrasive, some kind and sweet, some blunt etc you get the idea, that's life! When you ask a cross section of people 'their opinion' you get a cross section of viewpoints.

However, I have found it a HUGE help to have people critique my horses and of course they didn't say they were perfect but that was no surprise to me !!!!!!!! Now I can see my boy is high rumped!!!!!!!

PLEASE PLEASE don't discourage honesty and allow individuality because if you do you will have really boring, blah answers that tell you nothing at all!!!!!!!!

 

[alphahorses]

Ive said this a million times but ill say it again

Good conformation is NOT JUST FOR SHOWING.  It is to ensure a horse has a healthy quality of life.  In our rescues i have seen 4 generations of horses in one herd all with the exact same leg deformity.  None of them can walk correctly and all of them are in various stages of pain as they age.  Considering that a horse can live 30 yrs i want to give the ones i breed the best chance of living a long healthy life.  .

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Well said. It is our RIGHT to breed any quality of horse we want to - even "pet quality" . But IMO it is not RESPONSIBLE to breed horses that are not of good quality - not because they won't do well in the showring, but because they stand less of a chance of being purchased and kept by knowledgable people. I've seen too many poor miniatures go through auctions and end up in someone's back yard or pasture with hooves so long they curl or founder from over eating - or WORSE.

I want to breed animals that are good enough in quality that they not only are healthy, but they have a chance at a productive life with an owner who really cares.

 

[susanne]

PLEASE PLEASE don't discourage honesty and allow individuality because if you do you will have really boring, blah answers that tell you nothing at all!!!!!!!!

my sentiments EXACTLY!

kaykay, you are one of those I referred to when I said that many our most knowledgeable members no longer post critiques. This is such a shame, and I really miss your thoughtful, insightful comments. I would always welcome a critique from you, no matter how brutally honest.

Perhaps we need to define our terms and pin the guidelines so that all are aware of them.

Critique: A totally honest criticism of your horse, good and bad. Not for the faint of heart.

Gentle Appraisal: Go easy...tell what you like about this horse

Just sharing: No need for opinions...just a chance to share photos

Perhaps someone else has better terms, but we need critiques, and while we don't want hurt feelings, this should not prevent those who want the truth from getting an honest answer. We need to make certain that people know what they are asking for -- lyn handled it well in asking if a critique was truly desired, and if it should be by a forum post or by private message.

 

[Lisa-Ruff N Tuff Minis]

The most interesting thing on these threads is rarely is it the original poster who is upset with anything said. I would assume most of them know what they are asking for when they are doing it.

Seems to be others who dont even own the horse that start going on about how cruel everyone is being and how hurtful ect.

 

[alphahorses]

Personally, when I ask for a critique, I really want an HONEST opinion. I can sort through what I think is right or wrong, but the critique helps me to take an honest second look at my horse, and that is the whole point.

But I think a key word is "brutal" here. There are ways to give honest answers that are "brutal" and there are ways to state things that are very honest but objective or even kind. I'm sure NO ONE here has the intention of being unkind - you have to keep that in mind when you read any email - but sometimes we come across in ways that we do not intend.

I'll throw something out here - my 2 cents and you can take it or leave it - but simple things like font size and color make a huge difference in email. I do webwork for a large company, so we spend time looking at research on how people react to colors, fonts, wording, etc on the web. For example most people perceive emails written in all caps as yelling, large print (esp red) can be perceived as being more forceful (usually negative); and most people are annoyed by florescent font, esp if the background makes it hard to read.

On the other hand, little things like the smilies everyone already uses here really does help set the tone of the email.

Again, just my 2 cents .. there will always be people who get upset - you can't make everyone happy. But little things in the way you say things more than what you say does make a big difference in how people receive it.

Just IMO

 

[shminifancier]

I go in the show ring to get my horses critiqued. I don't show showmanship I DON"T want to be judged I want my horse to be judged.. I will trust people that have studied the rule book,,,And have read the Newest rule book Als that have Gone to Seminars once a year to keep up on new rule changes and new things that are happening in the ring..

I sat and watched the Show in Rochester last week.. And the First 3 classes I judged right along with the 2 judges and I had the first 3 classes Penned EXACTLY like the judges did~! From then on I did not judge anymore as I felt COOL I still have a good eye what the judges are looking for

I have 3 very close friends one of which I work for now and then in his busiiness...And then I ask and get pointers from them....

 

[RobinRTrueJoy]

Ya know, I never ask those questions wanting others to critique my horses. One or two pictures isn't enough information to judge. I have hand selected each one of my horses for many reasons, and I am happy with each and every one.

Yes,maybe one's throatlatch may be a little too thick, maybe another's tail may be set a tiny bit too low. hOwever each one has its redeeming factors, it may be a gorgeuos head and eyes, perfect bite, nice straight legs, but tail just a little low set. You get the idea. There are very few perfect horses, but I am thrilled with each one of mine. So I won't be asking any for any critiques.

I admire people's opinions of other horses and the bravery of a forum member asking for a critique. I for one am a little too touchy about my babies!

 

[BigDogs & LittleHorses]

My take on the whole critique thing is that he asked "What do you think of my stallion."  NOT "Do you think I should geld him".

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AMEN!!! If you tell someone directly what to do with their horse's reproductive future when they did not ask for it, you have crossed the line.

Some people may wish to breed a less than perfect animal because they feel that they have a special bond or spiritual connection to it, or see something rare or special in their personality. I think some of the big time breeders tend to forget about this because they have so many horses to worry about and their time to connect with individuals is spread thin.

As long as the offspring does not have health issues and is cared for all of its life, what is the harm? A horse that has by show standards what looks to be a "weak looking neck" that ends up working just fine for its "owner" all of the horse's life is a neck that was just as good as a "strong looking neck" in the end now, wasn't it?

Daryl

 

[shminifancier]

QUOTE(minicount @ Aug 2 2005, 11:46 PM)My take on the whole critique thing is that he asked "What do you think of my stallion."  NOT "Do you think I should geld him".

AMEN!!! If you tell someone directly what to do with their horse's reproductive future when they did not ask for it, you have crossed the line. 

This is soooo very true~!!

 

[nootka]

I still try to do critiques when I have the time, but I in no way try to say that whatever I am seeing is the ONLY thing that could be interpreted by the photos provided.

I do agree that the original poster should know what they are doing before they ask, and in the case of stallions, many of them will be advised that they would be better off as geldings, though of course we cannot geld them w/our mere words, that is always up to the owner.

None of us owns the perfect horse. There are flaws and shortcomings in every one that we own. Look back at the foundation horses, none of them is perfect and yet they still had worthy contributions in many cases. Someone saw something and wanted to experiment with it.

Above all, a horse should be sound for breeding use, as in not having any defects that would cause unsoundness, be it physical or mental.

Beyond that, as far as type, we all make our own choices, though one thing to consider is the actual market for what we are producing. If we are not questioning these things, we are not caring the way we should, anyway.

I am sorry this is so off topic.

I just hate that anyone would not want to say what they see (and yes, we are dealing with a PHOTOGRAPH, and that in itself is limiting) and have others learn from it. For example, if I said the horse mentioned had a roach back (he does not), then another person came on and said, no, a roach back is different and gave an example, then I might have learned something. Keep in mind that we are all capable of making mistakes and if I make a mistake in critiquing someone's horse, I am not above admitting I might be wrong and learning from my mistakes. I do hope others can see the things mentioned in critiques and learn to recognize them for themselves, and get enough examples that they would be correct in doing so.

I am glad, VernB, that you are not upset by all this. We tend to get touchy about some things, and noone is attacking you or your horse, but I think some people felt that was happening, when it's clear that you asked for opinions and were capable of dealing with them as just that; opinions.

Liz M.

 

[shminifancier]

Picture or pictures can show false impressions can also show better then the animal can be.. Depends on just how the picture was staged. You can't see from one angle if a leg is crocked OR on the other hand mind be standing on a rock might be that at the moment the picture was taken the animal moved just a tiny amount to through off the True image.. From a flat picture like this you can see the way of travel..You can't see just how the teeth are, and if you can tell just by looking at a pic then all judges are wasting valuable show time in the ring by actually looking at the teeth visibly by lifting the lips..

And IMO it is unfair because of the limitations of pictures only to tell the owner they shouldn't breed that particular mare or that that stud colt should never breed and be only kept as a pet and gelded.

Photos not only can make a bad animal look better then in true to life is OR it can also make a good animal look bad.. Or one that is slightly off can look even worse by a poor photo..In that I will never judge a horse just by a photo or 2

 

[susanne]

shminifancier,

You're absolutely correct that photos do not tell the whole story, and can, in fact, lie. However, I can't imagine anyone would think that these are anything but a photo critique, flawed by nature, but still very interesting. And if someone posts a deliberately deceptive photo of their horse, then that's their loss!

 

[kaykay]

susanne thank you so much for your kind comments!! When i used to do critiques i always thought i did them nicely and was never brutal but i was always honest. But i got so much flak over it that it just wasnt worth it anymore. I have had some great people take the time to help me and i just wanted to give back some. But it always gets taken the wrong way.

And i am harder on my own horses then anyone else ever would be.

Shminifancier----i have seen horses take grand champion in one show and get the gate in the next. Judges only judge what they are seeing THAT DAY---that couple seconds in time. just like when you critique from a pic its that day that picture. Its really not so different. Also different judges like different things. Just like people here do.

Im going to try and get some pics of mine to put up and show some conformation goods and bads. I just dont have good pics right now to show.

 

[whitney]

To learn good conformation read books, join your local 4-H Horse Judging Club. This is open to under 18 and over 18 (become a leader). Many large horse farms will open up their facilities to help educate. It also teaches you how to politely critique, its called oral reasons.

It is impossible to truly JUDGE a horse from a PICTURE.

For these reasons:

1. You must know the intended USE of the horse.

2. You must watch the horse move from all angles.

3. You must know his background (pedigree, experience).

etc. etc. etc.

Some of the GREATEST driving horses are NOT halter horses, and some of the GREATEST halter horses move like POOP.

One other tip if you really need someone elses opinion, PM the experienced on the forum and ask for a private evaluation. I'm sure they would be happy to help.

 

[susanne]

You're absolutely correct that an in-person critique is ideal, but that does not mean that photographic critiques have no value -- just take them as they are. True, you don't see everything, but you CAN see quite a bit.

Many people have no one to give them an in-person critique, especially not someone with the experience to be found on this forum.

But most important: if you don't like online critiques, then don't participate. Don't try to discourage those who enjoy and learn from them.