Input on stallion

[Frankie]

For another, we are not judges."
Judges are people with an opinion. Some are better than others. Personally, I would trust the opinion of many here over certain carded "judges."

I agree.

But what I was saying is we can be wrong as well. I too trust the opinions of many on the forum. But take 10 people and let them place a class of 20 horses and you may very likely get 10 different opinions, the same with this stallion. Whether it is us or carded judges. Our brain is looking through our own eyes, not others.

Can't say I disagree with anything said about this stallion. But, sometimes the view from a different set of eyes will see maybe some positive that would be helpful.

As in Ginny seeing Willy in a positive way. Not so sure I could have done it with Willy, but dang is that boy awesome.

 

[Frankie]

In case you missed it,

Willy's before and after pics.

It may all come down to how much work you are willing to put into a horse.

 

[lyn_j]

[SIZE=14pt]Even Though Willie is a hairy baby on those pics you can still see the set of his neck which is upright, he is short coupled has a good croup and a good shoulder with straight legs. You just have to look thru the fuzz.The things I mentioned dont change they are just enhanced with good care and conditioning.[/SIZE]

Lyn

 

[Frankie]

I was just making a small point, wasn't saying you could or could not see what kind of horse Willy would become, I was only using him as an example.

Look at his first picture, Willy's. There is NO neck and his tail set looks like it was just pasted on at the top of one of his legs, who ever was pinning the tail on the donkey missed his butt all together.

No offense Ginny, you know I think Willy is awesome with a capital A!

 

[Marty]

OUCH! This is what I hate when people stick their horses up here for critique. I know, I know, she asked for it and the particulars but gee whiz! Must we be so harsh here?

Look: you have yourself a nice little guy there with a pretty color. He is not in condition as you have said.

Now then: as Lisa was NICE enough to point out, all horses are not halter horses. Not by a long shot. Most of us don't have halter horses. But that does not mean that you cannot find a place in the show ring to show your horse.

There are many other classes to enter besides the "lead 'em and feed 'em" classes.

Every horse has a gift from God. A talent. This talent can be that you just may have yourself a jumper on your hands. Maybe, this guy wants to learn how to go through an obstacle course in record time. And just suppose that he ends up wanting to be driven and pull you in a cart? The sky is the limit for you and this little guy and don't let nobody tell you that he can't go be in a show. If he's trained for something, let him go do it. And let's not forget that you guys just may be as happy as you can be doing NOTHING in your yard just like mine.

And furthermore, if you don't want to rush into gelding him then don't. He is your horse and if you have facilities and the expertise to house him and want to wait a while to see if he blooms for you, then so be it. Like Susanne has told you, once they are off they can't be glued back on.

Your job is to find his talent. It's there. You just have to bring it out because "GOD DIDN'T MAKE NO JUNK" !!!!!!!!!!

 

[Songcatcher]

Yeahhhh Marty!!!

OUCH! This is what I hate when people stick their horses up here for critique.  I know, I know, she asked for it and the particulars but gee whiz!  Must we be so harsh here?
Look: you have yourself a nice little guy there with a pretty color. He is not in condition as you have said.

Now then: as Lisa was NICE enough to point out, all horses are not halter horses. Not by a long shot. Most of us don't have halter horses.  But that does not mean that you cannot find a place in the show ring to show your horse.

There are many other classes to enter besides the "lead 'em and feed 'em" classes.

Every horse has a gift from God. A talent. This talent can be that you just may have yourself a jumper on your hands. Maybe, this guy wants to learn how to go through an obstacle course in record time. And just suppose that he ends up wanting to be driven and pull you in a cart? The sky is the limit for you and this little guy and don't let nobody tell you that he can't  go be in a show. If he's trained for something, let him go do it. And let's not forget that you guys just may be as happy as you can be doing NOTHING in your yard just like  mine.

And furthermore, if you don't want to rush into gelding him then don't. He is your horse and if you have facilities and the expertise to house him and want to wait a while to see if he blooms for you, then so be it. Like Susanne has told you, once they are off they can't be glued back on.

Your job is to find his talent. It's there. You just have to bring it out because "GOD DIDN'T MAKE NO JUNK" !!!!!!!!!!

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[mountain_waif]

....

 

[lyn_j]

[SIZE=14pt]This is the last I will say on this issue since I am pretty sure I was the harsh one here but, if someone asked me if a horse is a. Stallion material and b, show quality.... in my opinion , and you all can flame if you want, but in my opinion if he is to be a stallion he darn well better be halter class show material! I dont want to hurt peoples feeling but are we doing them a service to just say lovely things that boost the happy feelings and let them get discouraged later in the ring or is it helpful to evaluate based on what we know about what is in the ring presently??? If this horse is just to be loved then he is perfectly made for that. Yes there are lots of classes he could go in performance and be a success byt as far as a breeding stallion he must be a top show horse if he is to make a name for the farm.Im pretty sure that Marty Lisa and Carolyn are lighting their arrows right now but I stand by my statements good or bad with a clear concience.[/SIZE]

Lyn

 

[Teedee]

[SIZE=14pt]If you can't stand the heat then stay out of the kitchen! [/SIZE]

I honestly don't know why people feel the need to defend those who ask for an opinion on their horses. I am sure VernB is intelligent and capable enough to figure out who to believe and who not. All it takes is some webpage surfing and look at people horses.

I am relatively new to this forum and I know who I can ask for an opinion. It is usually the people who get blasted for their honest opinion. As Lisa and Marty said not every horse is a halter horse. Every horse has a job wether it be in the show ring or in the barnyard.

I do not post on critques because I am too dang honest and I will say what I think. Give these people some credit for their own posts....

Ok just fell (or was I pushed?) off my soapbox!

Tammi

 

[midnight star stables]

[SIZE=14pt]If you can't stand the heat then stay out of the kitchen! [/SIZE]I honestly don't know why people feel the need to defend those  who ask for an opinion on their horses. I am sure VernB is intelligent  and capable enough to figure out who to believe and who not. All it takes is some webpage surfing and look at people horses.

I am relatively new to this forum and I know who I can ask for an opinion. It is usually the people who get blasted  for their honest opinion.  As Lisa and Marty said not every horse is a halter horse.  Every horse has a job wether it be in the show ring or in the barnyard.

I do not post on critques because I am too dang honest and I will say what I think. Give these people some credit for their own posts....

Ok just fell (or was I pushed?) off my soapbox!

Tammi

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[Frankie]

to be critisized for wanting to be positive. Didn't realize that was bad.

my bad

 

[susanne]

It really irritates me that people cannot stand an honest critique. If I ask for a critique, I DO NOT want a sugar-coated, transparent platitude about how "he has a kind eye," or whatever. What good does something like that do me when I am seeking an opinion? To be honest, it makes me doubt any compliment, since I don't know whether or not it is sincere or just an attempt to make me not feel bad.

It bugs me no end that those who dare to give their opinion get trashed, both online and in private messages. Many of our most knowledgeable members no long participate in critiques, which ia a tremendous shame -- a great educational opportunity is lost.

As has been said before, we need some ground rules for critiques (as much as I hate following rules, LOL!) Such as:

Do not utter the word "critique" unless you are prepared for honest opinions

Do not give a critique unless it is specifically asked for

Give your horse a fair chance -- nobody can judge a horse in winter woolies, or when the photo is bad or the angle is bad.

Remember that those giving critiques can only go by the photo you provide. If the horse looks over at the knees in the photo when in reality the legs are straight, you have no one to blame but yourself.

Don't assume everyone is thin-skinned like you. Perhaps you couldn't take having your horse critiqued, but you didn't ask. Dpo't try to prevent others from seeking or giving crituques just because it makes you uncomfortable.

I'm sure everyone has a suggestion to add, so please post 'em.

I'd hate to see critiques become a thing of the past!!

 

[tagalong]

I actually posted this last night but it got sucked into the Void along the way. So even after reading some of the comments here - I will comment - as that was what was asked for.

NO. Not stallion material. Good care and conditioning cannot change basic structure. His neck is too short - and on a bit upside down. He is not clean through his throat latch. None of the neck problems will be alleviated by more weight. It would be nice to see front and back views as well....

A STALLION should make you go WOW... not... maybe??

If there is even a slight hmmmmm... the answer is geld him. And enjoy him.

A stallion should be way above average in every category... form to function. If he is not well put together then he will not be a good mover etc. You cannot expect him to "fix" low quality mares. Or for a quality mare to "fix" his contributions.

Breed the best to the best - and hope for the best...

ETA:

It really irritates me that people cannot stand an honest critique. If I ask for a critique, I DO NOT want a sugar-coated, transparent platitude about how "he has a kind eye," or whatever. What good does something like that do me when I am seeking an opinion? To be honest, it makes me doubt any compliment, since I don't know whether or not it is sincere or just an attempt to make me not feel bad.

Thank you for those wise words. Telling someone - "what a nice colour".... is not helpful. There are waaaay too many mini stallions out there - I have never understood why everyone has to have one - or two - or six - of their own - it does not happen with big horses...

I applaud those on this forum who have recognized that - and gelded decent enough colts. The true sign of a proper breeding program is the quality of their GELDINGS. And to get quality geldings you need to start with superior stallions. Not maybe ones.

 

[Marty]

No flames, no arrows, and critiques can be done nicely, and worded in a kind way, that's all I am saying. I do think critiques are good, very helpful, if done tastefully and in a nice way. That's how any of us learn.

I think this is good advice:



My suggestion would be to review the pictures of the horses that people are posting as winning in the ring. but then explain them. Why are they winning? What is so good about them? Pick a winner apart.

And from those pictures, explain what is good and possitive about them and then compare them to the negative. Just a thought.

 

[Field-of-Dreams]

[SIZE=14pt] ...if he is to be a stallion he darn well better be halter class show material!.... [/SIZE]

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Now, this is just MY take on it, but....

WHY is a "halter class" the end-all, be-all class? What if this horse is a SPECTACULAR mover and great harness horse to-be? What if he would pass that on to his get?

There is more to horses than just "looking pretty". ( I know, I know- good conformation makes for a good mover- most of the time...

) We have an average looking bay mare that MOVES beautifully! SO beautifully that in her first halter class the judge asked her to go around one more time, just to see her MOVE! Did she win? No. Like I said, she's average. But she is in training to DRIVE. As is another rather plain colt who MOVES. (He may need "brain surgery", though, as he is getting TOO studdish for his own good

).

IMHO, the "new" market for our Minis is gonna be driving horses- whether for trail, show, or CDE, it's coming. We just gotta be ready for it.

Lucy

 

[minicount]

My take on the whole critique thing is that he asked "What do you think of my stallion." NOT "Do you think I should geld him".

I've been to a lot of sites off of the forum and there are a lot of stallions held up on pedestals that would get the knife here. Obviously my opinion differs from that of the owner.

You don't like a horse put up for critique I have no problem with an honest evaluation from your side of the computer.

When you are asked to give an evaluation you should be able to give one with out the fear of being roasted. The easiest way to teach anyone is by showing them. Post one of your stallions and point out the differences between the two.

 

[rabbitsfizz]

This is a stallion I bought not long ago, he was 2 months from turning 3. Sorry I dont have better pics but maybe you can see through that remaining hair. Please let me know what you think of him. I'm not very good at deciding what is a good stallion. Do you think he is show quality? How is his build considering a 3yo. lets hear your opinions

This is what Vern asked. He asked for a crit on his stallion asking, was it a good stallion?? My answer- No It is NOT a good stallion. My next logical statement is it would make a cute gelding, obviously. I do not believe it is a halter standard Gelding, either. I think it was Lyn said this is the minimum for a Stallion, that it is halter standard. If it is performance too, that is a bonus. Some of the top stallions are being used in performance now, but people are naturally reluctant to put their World Champion in a jumping/ obstacle class!! Quite a few are in harness- that is great -so, even , is Liberty as you can see the movement and it really shows all the warts as well

Would I use a horse just just because it was a World Champion?? No, of course not you are talking to the woman who would have gelded Rowdy

But it would be a very good starting point

Would I use a stallion down the road who was lame but threw out of this world babies and had never been shown?? Yes, if I knew why he was lame!! I would rather judge a horse on his get, at the end of the day, so long as his conformation is sound. Vern, the conformation on this colt is NOT sound!!!

 

[Songcatcher]

Would I use a horse just just because it was a World Champion?? No, of course not you are talking to the woman who would have gelded Rowdy

 

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Many of us (myself included) have gotten off of what was asked to begin with and begun criticizing others for their comments.

I think Jane's statement above shows that what one person considers outstanding quality is not admired by another and vise versa. People have different likes and dislikes.

I have the highest respect for Jane and many others who have posted here, but everyone has a right to their opinion.

I have read on historical stallion pages about some colts that were sold as pets by their breeders (well known and respected breeders) who went on to become National Champions and leading sires in the industry.

VernB said,

I will not get upset,and If I do I'll keep it to myself.

I think that's good advise for all of us.

All that being said, I think he is very nicely marked (especially his left side). I am by no means qualified to critique the conformation of a horse.

 

[justjinx]

I may be flamed for this but i have a comment on NECKS. many have mentioned that this horse is ewe-necked or has an upside-down neck. With the way many people pull their horse's head up and do not let the horse RELAX into his neck, many necks LOOK ewe necked until the horse is relaxed. This pulling the head up distorts the neck. Therefore, i cannot say this horse IS ewe necked even tho the pic makes it SEEM as though it can be. pics are MISLEADING at the least so very often!

jennifer

 

[Lisa-Ruff N Tuff Minis]

Perhaps it is the heat effecting everyone but sheesh seems like you just can win these days.

Dont post about shows or results those that dont feel left out and like we make them feel we arent good enough

Dont be honest about your crituques

but dont ignore people who ask for them cause that is rude as well.

If you answer then you better put your own horses up and then it starts over again

be honest and post your opinion but dont be negative and dont ignore

and never say you have show experience cause then you are leaving those others out sigh....

COME ON FALL AND COOLER WEATHER so we can all be a bit less touchy and cranky (ok well at least till winter boredem sets in , and then of course next is mare stare tiredness )