Input on stallion

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Hey Lisa,

Don't wish Fall on me yet!! hahaha

I LIVE for July here on the Hilliard flats! .........my one and only month of real summer!! :)

About the only thing I get cranky about is that I have to blanket my clipped babies at night even in July here! So I never complain about heat!! :)))

Susan O.
 
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ON Ghost?????????

I love that horse,

so,

how the heck did he do, I WANT TO HEAR GIRL!!!!!!!!
 
That is why I won't do this...I am Not a Judge nor are most of the people on this post.. If we all knew what to look for and was that good about it we would become Judges AND get Paid for it
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[SIZE=14pt]20 years ago I was an amhr steward and thought I wanted to become a judge. Then I decided that I wanted to show and I personally dont feel judges should show their horses and be judges.....too much opportunity for the I'll pick your horse this show if you pick mine the next mentality. Doesnt mean I cant pick or judge a horse for its quality.[/SIZE]

Lyn
 
Mary Lou - LB said:
Lisa-Ruff N Tuff Minis said:
Perhaps it is the heat effecting everyone but sheesh seems like you  just can win these days. Dont post about shows or results those that dont feel left out and like we make them feel we arent good enough

Dont be honest about your crituques

but dont ignore people who ask for them cause that is rude as well.

If you answer then  you better put your own horses up and then it starts over again

be honest and post your opinion but dont be negative and dont ignore

and never say you have show experience cause then you are leaving those others out sigh....

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Mary Lou said:

Wow.. some of this is TRUTH.. I DID NOT post the last AMHR SHOW RESULTS of my YEARLING COLT that is owned by a member here for FEAR I am doing wrong..
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Well, I have sat back and watched this and I have to say my fingers are taking on a life of their own. When Mary Lou feels she cannot post something on a forum that she has provided, something is drastically wrong.

As for Lisa's post I have one comment. Everyone should be able to post what they darn well please and if you don't like the topic don't read it. As far as I am concerned it is the show ring that defines which way any breed evolves. And if you don't want to participate don't read the thread and don't show. Life is about choices. I find it disgusting that people have to think twice before they can post about something meaningful to them..........whether it be showing or grooming their beloved pet in their back yard.

It bugs me no end that those who dare to give their opinion get trashed, both online and in private messages. Many of our most knowledgeable members no long participate in critiques, which ia a tremendous shame -- a great educational opportunity is lost.

I don't want to get involved in critiquing anyones horse anymore as (A.) most people don't really want to hear the truth or (B.) others come to an unneeded rescue whether wanted or not. And as Susanne said, most of the knowledgeable people have stopped posting because of it. Have any of you sat back and taken a good look on how many really knowledgeable people rarely post anymore?

Good care and conditioning cannot change basic structure
I couldn't agree more. No amount of weight or muscle is going to change a thing about basic structure. What you are dealing with here is the fact the most people do not have a good enough eye to see thru lack of conditioning. Those that are truly knowledgeable and have spent years around horses are capable of seeing thru things like that.

It really irritates me that people cannot stand an honest critique. If I ask for a critique, I DO NOT want a sugar-coated, transparent platitude about how "he has a kind eye," or whateve
Again, couldn't agree more. Nobody is going to learn a thing by sugar coating anything. I can't stand to hear someone likes a horses color or they have a "sweet face" Get real.

And the last thing I can say I agree with is........

If you can't stand the heat then stay out of the kitchen!
If something bothers you about a thread that somebody else started just stay away from it. As far as I am concerned Vern wanted an honest critique of his horse and now I am sure he felt like he started a flame fest. How many people like this are honestly going to come back and try to learn with some of the responses given here! And if you are one that is participating in writing these nasty private messages you need to get a life. Always the same darn people creating problems.
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That is why I won't do this...I am Not a Judge nor are most of the people on this post.. If we all knew what to look for and was that good about it we would become Judges AND get Paid for it 
I'm sorry, but I so thoroughly disagree with this mindset.

So, only judges are knowledgeable about comformation? That is as far from the truth as possible. This sort of elitist mentality really gets my hackles up...there are many on here with far more experience than many of the judges out there. I have heard excellent, thoughtful comments from those without years of experience. And as lyn said, not everyone wants to become a judge. If I had that sort of knowledge and experience, I would still not want to become a judge, as it would mean far too much time away from my own horses.

Please, people, don't let this hold you back from stating your opinion. All comments are valid, even it the owner does not agree.

I'm also very troubled by Lisa and Mary Lou's comment about not wanting to post about shows. For anyone to criticize someone for talking about their areas of interest and accomplishments it patently small-minded and insecure. We can't level the playing field by pushing aside those who are successful!

Anyone who is offended by such things should probably avoid public forums where free speech is practiced.
 
Eermm... I'm a Judge???
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I've been wondering whether to post that information or not
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I also count myself and Lyn to be knowledgeable and we are to quote the song " still standing", still here still critiquing, still getting shot down. It is not so much that some knowledgeable people have left (SOME knowledgeable people!!!!! ) but that the ones left are a lttle more tenacious, I think
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Hi There Everyone,
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I sure am sorry for any flames.
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I do still appreciate peoples opinions and want to say thanks to every one and lets get ride of the flames. I agree a message board should be fun. No offenses I just appreciate hearing peoples different opinions. I will decide what to do with my boy, as It is up to me anyway. I sure enjoy coming to this forum I have learned alot. Thankyou Mary Lou for setting up this forum and I am sorry for any flames.
 
Vern, you are not the one who should be apologizing to anyone!!!!!!!! And yes, it is totally up to you whatever you decide to do. Good luck.

Carol
 
[SIZE=14pt]I so agree with Carol! You have nothing to appologize for! Thank you for sharing your horse for learning.... he is yours and you need to decide for yourself.[/SIZE]

Lyn
 
mary Lou in a way i am glad that you feel the same way I do that show results arent welcome here anymore. of course I feel very saddened as well and now to be honest a bit more then irked that YOU dont feel comfortable posting on your own fourm
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The only thing I feel glad about is i thought hmmm maybe I am reading into things but obviously not.

I personally love to hear about ghost and how much she has done with him in such a short time it is wonderful.

and yep i guess bottom line is Vern you have no reason to feel bad for asking for an opinion why others have to put there own agenda in i dont know human nature i guess and perhaps i have been guilty of doing so myself sometimes
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Vern,

I just want to say what a great sport you are and what a wonderful attitude you have. :)

I personally do not show much at all, and am not strong enough to put my horses up for critiques and I can admit that.

I choose to breed what I LIKE and strive for my own goals........ and have been very happy with the results. :).

And you are right. It is your own decision what you do now :)

Susan O.
 
OK...now I have to say something...I don't show...I choose not to show...but I do appreciate show pictures and results...without those who show our breed would be nothing...please do not hang onto information because it may be offensive...show results aren't about you they are about a horse and we all know that every horse loves to be patted for doing well.
 
Everyone must remember that every horse owner does not have the option of taking their horse to a show to be compared to others......... Some people do not have show farms or horse shows near them so that they can see & compare for themselves what is in their barn................ There is an option to them & it is this forum & I would hate to see this source taken away from those that really want to learn about conformation. I also feel no one should be blasted for giving their opinion if asked for.... As stated before if a requestor can not take the truth, then they really do not need to ask. Perhaps in this case an email to someone they trust on the forum asking for a private critique would be advisable......................................Vern .... As for this stallion I will say with these pictures & in his present condition he is not breeding quality IF you are striving for future foals with correct conformation that you want to show or sell as breeding quality. If you want to breed pet quality then that is your option.......... Lee & I have told many buyers it takes the same amount of time & money to feed & care for a pet quality horse as it does for a nice quality horse...... In todays market there are lots of nice conformationally correct horses that can not be placed in nice homes. What I am saying is buyers can pick & choose today because the supply exceeds the demand & the pet quality horses fall to the bottom................ This is not exactly what you asked for and not knowing how long you have had mini's or what your future plans are, it is hard to judge what or how much to say for fear of going out of bounds.... Being one of the few original posters left here that started way back when, sometimes we have said too much & sometimes we didn't say enough.................... Don't feel bad about your question. What I do hope is that you got from the opinions, the information that you needed to help you make an informed decision without getting your feelings hurt..... Best of luck in whatever you choose to do.
 
Ok... here I go...

First off, I was not planning to post, as I never post on critiques although I love to learn about conformation and what makes a horse high quality (conformation/show ring wise) and I am going to word this as carefully as I can as I do not want to step on ANYONE'S toes if at all possible.

Strictly IMO, how can we learn and better improve the breed if people don't teach us? *FOR EXAMPLE* Lyn, how did you learn? You are one of many VERY knowledgeable people here and I highly respect your opinion (along with many other people's.) So please, how did you learn? Did someone show you and point out why a horses conformation is good? If so, shouldn't the more experienced people here be *helping* the less experienced? (Not that they aren't.) Show us why a horse is good.Tell us why a horse will do well and IMO everyone will benifit... especially the Miniature Horse as a breed. And that's what we want, right?
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The miniature horse to evolve in a positive direction as a breed?

I really do not want to offend anyone else's opinion here, but they way I see it, you do not have to be a judge to be knowedgeable. To have a breeding program that will produce horses that will be sucessfull in the ring, you need to be knowledgeable about conformation ect. so you can pick your mares and stallions. Yes, judges may more experenced, but they have to start somewhere, right?
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And a judges opinion is just that, correct? An opinion. Just as mine or yours. One judge could place a horse 1st and another 3rd. And the more knowledgeable we become as breeders ect, the more often we will be able to go to a sale and say, "There. That is a mare I want in my breeding program. Her conformation is amazing." And if everyone could do that, then the breed could improve (not that it's horrid or anything.) I know that all this may sound very sketchy, and I'm not quite sure how to word all this, but I hope that this is coming out right.

I also think (which appears that I may be doing to much of,
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) is that to become more knowledgeable, we need to have people doing honest critiques. Now IMO *honest* does NOT equal *vicious*. They aren't the same thing, but many people (not anyone in particular) appear to be confusing the two. I could say (again, not to any post/topic/critique in particular) "No, I would not consider him/her breeding material. Here's why..." Rather than "I don't like your horse. Geld him. Sell him as a pet, or whatever...just don't you dare show him."(Harsh, I know, and no one is that mean, but I hope you see my point.) Show them why. That way the next time that samle person or anyone else goes out to purcase a stallion or mare for breeding, they will avoid making the same mistake. It can only help right? Don't sugar coat it, but try to help the person learn. There has to be a happy medium, right?
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I think Marty does a great job with that!
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Vern had said "I'm not very good at deciding what is a good stallion." So the people who are "good at deciding what is a good stallion" could help him out? (Again, not that you don't.) What good is being knowledgeable if you're the only one who knows the knowledge? Sure, maybe you get more profit from the horses that you sell from your sucessfull breeding program, and that's wonderful. I applaud you for being so sucessfull. But after your gone, that sucessfull breeding won't benifit the breed as much as sharing your knowledge will. Maybe I'm wrong, but I don't think that you are in it for the money. My guess is that you're in it for the horses. So lets improve the horse breed that we love so much however we can.

One last thing. I think it's sad to hear that people can't post their show results. Especially when Mary Lou can't post about Ghost. He's an amazing horse with an amazing owner and she has the right to be very proud. The people who show work so hard and I think that they have the right to share with their fourm familly. That's what this is right? A familly. One HUGE familly! I love it! But I hate it when y'all fight! We can't always agree, but can't we make an effort?

Maybe there should be rules for critiques...no, not rules. Perhaps guidelines though? It could make it more constructive than 3 pages of arguments and 1 page of useable information, right?
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Ok, I think I wrote way too much. I was just going to make a little comment, but my fingers just kept going, and going, and going! lol. I feel like the Energiser Bunny! So I'm for sure going to stop now! Honestly though, I'm a little nervous about posting this. I really don't want to offend anyone, but I had to get this off my chest. I tried very hard to be really careful about my words, so I hope it payed off, because I don't want to start any arguments. I just want the mood to he a little lighter here!

Erin

(p.s. Remember to Smile!
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[SIZE=14pt]Erin , I tried to do that critiquing my own two horses. I can put my other horses up and tell you why I have that horse and what I hope for it to do. You asked me how I learned what is good. I have been going to horse shows all my life and mini shows since 1985. I went thru the Stewards program, became one and worked with judges at shows where I could ask them why they chose what they did. I was ring steward for several good amha and amhr judges. I asked bazillion questions.... you have to see the pic or the horses in person and ask the questions or you dont learn.[/SIZE]

Lyn
 
Before you decide to geld or not to geld listen to my little story lol.

I bought myself a stallion 2 years ago that I liked. I asked for critiques on here and everyone said "Oh he should be gelded". Well I bred him to 2 mares anways. After that I gelded him. Not because what people said but because he turned mean and nasty to the point you didn't want to be around him.

This year his foals came. 2 beautiful show fillies, and I mean BEAUTIFUL and I'm proud to say that I am a breeder of! People on here even said why did you geld him and these were the people said I should have gelded him!

HOWEVER, now that I had him gelded, he is a very nice boy, I trained him to drive, and I sent him off to get trained to jump. In my life I wouldn't ever dream he would do this when he was a stallion! Before I was thinking of selling him but I wanted to give him a chance as a gelding! I'm glad I didn't change my mind! Even though he defintelly produces nice foals I like him better as a gelding
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.

Like a little bed time story huh lol.
 
I'm sorry so many people feel show results aren't welcome here anymore. I love to read the show results and especially love it when there are pictures to go with the good news! I will continue to share all my horse accomplishments that make me happy, including show results.

It's a shame that a few people who want to sulk and pout have brought about a change in how and what some choose to post.

Additionally, I've yet to click on a topic and be surprised to see it involves show results... Don't "we" always indicate in the subject title that the thread contains our show results??? SO those who are sticks in the mud about what makes someone else happy simply don't need to click and read the news -- RIGHT?
 
i quit doing critiques way back in 2003. Just not worth the flames. I dont put my own horses up for critiques because i know every flaw in every horse i own. I feel that if i didnt know what flaws they have and know what good conformation is i have no business breeding horses. It doesnt matter if i am a judge or not. I am a breeder so i have to be knowlegeable!! I did try to start a website last year on miniature horse conformation because i felt there were so many new people that had no one to help them to see what it is. But i could not get anyone to send me pictures of faults. I had plenty of offers for pics for correct conformation LOL

Ive said this a million times but ill say it again
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Good conformation is NOT JUST FOR SHOWING. It is to ensure a horse has a healthy quality of life. In our rescues i have seen 4 generations of horses in one herd all with the exact same leg deformity. None of them can walk correctly and all of them are in various stages of pain as they age. Considering that a horse can live 30 yrs i want to give the ones i breed the best chance of living a long healthy life. .
 
lyn_j said:
[SIZE=14pt]Are you really asking for a true critique?? Can I just say that in my opinion he is NOT stallion material. If you want the details of why I say that let me know. I have gotten some pretty nasty emails for stating my opinions that are not favorable but I will if you say that I should. IF you would rather have a pm thats ok too.Added... Even with more wt I dont see him as show quality either.[/SIZE]Lyn

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Lyn, I for one am sorry that you receive nasty e-mails for posting your opinion, but in all honesty it is people like you who state the truth that are honestly answering posts such as this one! I admire that you speak your mind truthfully, your answers...as harsh as they could be...are what we are really looking for when we have these questions! BRAVO to you and everyone who speaks their minds so truthfully!

Not saying a little sugar coating is bad though... =)
 

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