Hopefully an interesting and informative post,

[BannerBrat]

[SIZE=12pt]Hi everyone, I got this idea from Myrna (RhineStone) on the current kicking strap post. I thought it would be interesting to post whatever pictures we have that help show how the horse moves/carries himself/etc, and then say ourselves what we are doing as far as schooling/training, and our future plans. Also I personally am open to any training ideas to help further benifet my horse and I. If more people decided to put their horses & themselves in this (which I hope they do!) just try to make it clear what you are replying to. [/SIZE]

Okay, I'll start.

Background Info: This is my six year old 36" grade mini gelding Banner. I've done all his training, starting from a nothing long yearling to now. He is a real challenge for me, but I love him to death and really appreciate him because he teaches me a ton. He has shown me a million tricks, evasions, and other quirks that he thinks up. As far as personality goes he's quite the bully with other horses, he's very dominant and seems to get more so with age. I think part of that is that up til a month before I got him he was kept with a herd of stallions. To work with he can be great, but he can also be horrible. Probably 75% of the time he's pretty good. He wants to be worked 7 days a week, even if it's just a 1/2 hr of something. He's okay with doing nothing some days now that he's turned out for 8 hours a day in a huge pasture with two other mini's. He seems to love driving and working overall.

Here's some pictures...

Here's May 2008, longlining/ground driving. (was hitched and driving at this point.)

going slightly uphill

going slightly downhill.

Driving August 2008;

Here's some pictures from april 2009, we were just starting lunging with a cavesson.

Here's two pictures of him playing in the pasture, not being chased by anyone except my Mom's gelding. Early Summer 2009. June.

Here's a basic conformation picture. taken summer 2009. July.

Driving Summer 09

With his normal myler comfort snaffle.

With a butterfly french link bit. didn't like it at all.

So there are the pictures.

As far as training I try to incorporate dressage into my training. As far as what are the various things I do when working him are: lunging with cavason, jumping, in hand dressage work, longlining/ground driving, driving, sledding. I'm sure there is some more, but after writing all of this I'm a bit lost, haha.

As far a goals, I'd like to compete in anything like CDE's. Hopefully there will be some stuff like that in this area. Either way though I like to progress through dressage, and so that's a very long term goal; dressage in hand, longlines, and driving.

Our current problem is contact and relaxion at a trot. He loves to keep his head up, being held up with the underside of his neck, rather then correctly through the top of his neck. We have made a ton of progress at the walk and there isn't much I have to complain with that at all. Trot has always been an iffy point for us, but I think that in time we will keep progressing.

Some of the major things in our training regimen are transitions, developing our half halts, and when in doubt go forward.

Feel free to critic in any way you'd like, if you'd like tell me what you'd do with this horse, etc.

Have fun! I'm open to any and all ideas.

P.S. please let me know if anything is unclear or doesn't make sense!

 

[RhineStone]

[SIZE=12pt][/SIZE]Here's some pictures from april 2009, we were just starting lunging with a cavesson.

Our current problem is contact and relaxion at a trot. He loves to keep his head up, being held up with the underside of his neck, rather then correctly through the top of his neck. We have made a ton of progress at the walk and there isn't much I have to complain with that at all. Trot has always been an iffy point for us, but I think that in time we will keep progressing.

Some of the major things in our training regimen are transitions, developing our half halts, and when in doubt go forward.

Wow, Ashley! I'm impressed! I'm glad that you started this thread!

The first thing I would say is that your horse has great bending ability. Look at that top photo with his inside hind leg tracking up underneath himself. A horse can't bend properly if they can't get that done. I had a mare who physically couldn't do it, and therefore in order to turn, she would throw her leg out and then pull the rest of her body over it. The turn was more like 90 degrees instead of a nice bend. (Sold her, she wasn't going to make an ADS horse.) Banner has a nice bend in his spine, and he doesn't look like he is being "pulled" to get it. Great!

I would agree with you that he could use some relaxation. Being relatively new to the cart, he may still be "pulling" rather than "pushing" the cart. It usually takes driving horses a year or more to figure out that it is easier to push the cart with his big hind end muscles than to pull it with his front legs and chest. Gradual hill work may help with that. It "forces" them to use their butt. Once he is using his rear end, the front end lightens. Think about it like a motor boat. What happens when you really give a motor boat gas? The hind end drops and the front comes up. That is what your horse should do eventually, but it takes time.

I would also see if you can move your saddle back away from his withers. It's not bad, but I wonder if that would help your relaxation issues.

When you say he has contact issues, are you saying he is too light or too heavy? In the above photo, it looks like he isn't taking up any contact at all. I think that it is harder to deal with a horse that won't take up contact than one that is too heavy. JMHO. A heavy horse usually lightens in the mouth once they figure out how to hold themselves up without you doing it for them.

Anyone else? I need to find some good photos to post here, especially some of 2008 to 2009. You wouldn't believe the difference in my gelding!

Thanks Ashley. I too hope that lots of people get some good ideas here.

Myrna

 

[BannerBrat]

Wow, Ashley! I'm impressed! I'm glad that you started this thread!
The first thing I would say is that your horse has great bending ability. Look at that top photo with his inside hind leg tracking up underneath himself. A horse can't bend properly if they can't get that done. I had a mare who physically couldn't do it, and therefore in order to turn, she would throw her leg out and then pull the rest of her body over it. The turn was more like 90 degrees instead of a nice bend. (Sold her, she wasn't going to make an ADS horse.) Banner has a nice bend in his spine, and he doesn't look like he is being "pulled" to get it. Great!

I would agree with you that he could use some relaxation. Being relatively new to the cart, he may still be "pulling" rather than "pushing" the cart. It usually takes driving horses a year or more to figure out that it is easier to push the cart with his big hind end muscles than to pull it with his front legs and chest. Gradual hill work may help with that. It "forces" them to use their butt. Once he is using his rear end, the front end lightens. Think about it like a motor boat. What happens when you really give a motor boat gas? The hind end drops and the front comes up. That is what your horse should do eventually, but it takes time.

I would also see if you can move your saddle back away from his withers. It's not bad, but I wonder if that would help your relaxation issues.

When you say he has contact issues, are you saying he is too light or too heavy? In the above photo, it looks like he isn't taking up any contact at all. I think that it is harder to deal with a horse that won't take up contact than one that is too heavy. JMHO. A heavy horse usually lightens in the mouth once they figure out how to hold themselves up without you doing it for them.

Anyone else? I need to find some good photos to post here, especially some of 2008 to 2009. You wouldn't believe the difference in my gelding!

Thanks Ashley. I too hope that lots of people get some good ideas here.

Myrna

[SIZE=12pt]Hi Myrna, I'll try to answer everything as best as I can.[/SIZE]

First off, I am happy about what you said as far as bending ability. I totally agree and I think it's one of his finer points. He is incredibly athletic if it's his idea. Funny thing about that is he's not lazy at all, he just wants to be a part of the decision.

There are times when I can see, and feel, him drop his hind end & really work, but those times are few & far between, mainly on tough hills or on occasion when I'm taking my brother for a ride with me. But I have faith that we'll get it. He's kept in pretty steady work year-round and I'd like to think that he's starting to get muscle in the right places. The motor boat analogy is a great one!

I will move my saddle back, never thought of that, it does look a bit forward. Hmmm. haha maybe it will make a difference, either way I'll move it back.

He takes awesome contact when you use really light reins (as in not bulky at all, like really light rope) and follow his mouth every step of the way. But he does get offended if you bump his mouth and he knows it wasn't his fault. He's really good about giving to the bit most of the time, but there are times when he fights it; nothing specific & never for the same thing. It's just sometimes he wants to fight. (Or so it seems.) I am working on geting him to step into that contact better. Also he never really avoids contact, doesn't go behind the bit hardly ever. (one evasion he doesn't try, haha.) It's kind of hard to explain. But overall I think he has a soft finicky mouth, but he loves his myler... I think.

I would love to see your pictures Myrna! And thank you for taking the time to respond.

 

[jegray21]

I would say that to start out in the longe work if he has his head up and is tight then he will def be the same in harness. He needs to build the top line more. Try some side reigns to teach him where to go. Horses really to find being round and through is more comfortable than high and tight but they do need guidance. Also the strength to stay there.

 

[susanne]

I'm officially throwing down the gauntlet to myself -- now I HAVE to get new photos of Mingus showing our progress to date.

First, a couple of photos of him longeing. This first shot was taken before we had ever driven. I see that he was very heavy on the front end. (no I'm not that tiny...just a wierd perspective)

This one was taken after a summer's conditioning for our first (and only, so far) schooling CDE.

For good and for bad, these next photos show how Mingus wants to move when harnessed (or at least how he did in September, 2008). He loves harness racing, in case you can't tell.

A bit more engaged in the hindquarters...

State of the cart: Currently, Mingus is closer to being on the bit, and after warming up on our last trail drive, he settled into a gorgeous, relaxed road trot that felt like he could go on forever.

Mingus, sadly, is severely handicapped by his people -- I've never studied dressage and am learning along with him, whereas Keith thinks his horse can do no wrong So please, for the sake of our long-suffering horse, give me your honest thoughts and critiques.

[Photo credits go to Daryl Anderson for the first image, and Leia Gibson for the rest]

 

[susanne]

Ashley, I love your description of Banner! Sounds like a certain egocentric gelding that I know... I tend to think these traits make a great driving and show horse.

Between what you've said and the photos, I would love to drive Banner. You can tell he thinks he's pretty special, yet his ears are on you. I think you have a great driving partner!

 

[BannerBrat]

I would say that to start out in the longe work if he has his head up and is tight then he will def be the same in harness. He needs to build the top line more. Try some side reigns to teach him where to go. Horses really to find being round and through is more comfortable than high and tight but they do need guidance. Also the strength to stay there.

[SIZE=12pt]Hi![/SIZE]

When I have the time I do start out by lunging him first until he's thoroughly warmed up and stretching. However I don't notice a difference in him. I suppose if I did it everytime before maybe I would though...

Respectively, I'm not really a fan of side reins and I don't think he'd benifet from it, but could you please elaborate more on what you mean if you have the time. And yes I definently agree with the last two sentences.

I'm officially throwing down the gauntlet to myself -- now I HAVE to get new photos of Mingus showing our progress to date.
First, a couple of photos of him longeing. This first shot was taken before we had ever driven. I see that he was very heavy on the front end. (no I'm not that tiny...just a wierd perspective)

This one was taken after a summer's conditioning for our first (and only, so far) schooling CDE.

For good and for bad, these next photos show how Mingus wants to move when harnessed (or at least how he did in September, 2008). He loves harness racing, in case you can't tell.

A bit more engaged in the hindquarters...

State of the cart: Currently, Mingus is closer to being on the bit, and after warming up on our last trail drive, he settled into a gorgeous, relaxed road trot that felt like he could go on forever.

Mingus, sadly, is severely handicapped by his people -- I've never studied dressage and am learning along with him, whereas Keith thinks his horse can do no wrong So please, for the sake of our long-suffering horse, give me your honest thoughts and critiques.

[Photo credits go to Daryl Anderson for the first image, and Leia Gibson for the rest]

[SIZE=12pt]Hi Susanne![/SIZE]

If you don't mind I'll put in my thoughts on the handsome Mingus.

I would think that lunging with a cavesson may help Mingus learn to balance and carry himself on a bend. Also it would warm him up better then lunging with a halter. (I'm not against lunging with the halter though.) When lunging with the cavesson you'd want him to stetch down and to your hand, similar to how you want him to with the bit.

Just from the pictures, it looks like he carries some tension through his topline muscles. It kind of looks like it originates from his mouth, I think that as he accepts contact more that will go away. You may also want to look at his bit/teeth. (Not saying you haven't, just thoughts running through my head.)

Does his give to the bit well? If so you could ask him to pick himself up more. (Kind of pushing him up into the bit.) But before that You might want to try to keep better contact and encourage him to stretch down & relax. (especially the underside of his neck.)

I love your pictures, I think Mingus has quite a bit of talent to carry himself quite impressively (and correctly), though he looks very nice as he is.

And thank you! I'll let the little monster know, I think that in time he will just get better and better in time. He certainly is a character to live with.

 

[susanne]

Thank you, Ashley! Your comments really show insight into Mingus. I neglected to mention that normally we do longe with a surcingle (actually the harness saddle and crupper), bridle and sliding side reins. I need to do this more, as each time he relaxes and carries himself much better.

He was new to this particular bit (French link butterfly) at the time of these photos and was most definitely avoiding contact. He now loves it , but at the time he was not used to it and was resisting. In addition, I had not previously been asking for the contact, and being Mingus, he resented my taking charge.

He has improved greatly in accepting contact, but still has a ways to go. I definitely need coaching on increasing contact and in guiding Mingus where he needs to go. I'd say it's a case of the blind leading the blind, but that's a bit too apt in my case, lol.

 

[ClickMini]

Ashley, your horse is lovely. And Suzanne, you know how I feel about that gorgeous hunk of horse, Mingus! He is so amazing. I hope we see you at some more CDEs this summer.

I have a question for you both, about your carts. I am starting three horses this year (CRAZY! Especially when you find out that I am also starting two of my finished horses as a pair!), and all of them are in the 35-37" range. I am thinking that the standard sized Frontier will not be big enough for these guys. I notice that both of you have the 24" wheels on yours, do you also have the 55" shafts?

Thanks for any info.

 

[susanne]

Hi Amy,

Ours is a CTM cart with 54" shafts and a lift kit.

CTM sells each individual part separately, and are very helpful in customizing your cart to suit your horse. (I think Frontier does this as well, but they don't list parts on their site.)

For Mingus, at 38 inches, they recommended either the mini-sized cart with lift kit or pony-sized cart without lift kit. I would think that for your 35-37 inch kids you'd want the mini cart with 24 inch wheels, no lift kit, and 54 inch shafts (esp if they're big movers), but it sure wouldn't hurt to run it past them.

Now that they have upgraded their wheels to a wider hub, their cart is virtually indistinguishable from the Frontier. I just wish they offered something other than the ubiquitous rose/white/black seat.

Thanks for the compliments on the Ming-Man! Hopefully we will get out this year. Will you be at Oregon Gold (whatever it's name is now).

 

[ClickMini]

Thanks for the info Susanne. No OG for me this year. I am starting new driving horses and working Esprit and Flirt toward a pair. Doing all the CDEs I can, including Happs, Inavale, Beavercreek, and Happs DT-T. I also will probably do the TREC and the Happ's Schooling weekend, and whatever activities Equestrians Institute has in store for us this year.

 

[jegray21]

[SIZE=12pt]Hi![/SIZE]

When I have the time I do start out by lunging him first until he's thoroughly warmed up and stretching. However I don't notice a difference in him. I suppose if I did it everytime before maybe I would though...

Respectively, I'm not really a fan of side reins and I don't think he'd benifet from it, but could you please elaborate more on what you mean if you have the time. And yes I definitely agree with the last two sentences.

The side reins in lounging can be used in a positive way. If the horse does not know how to move through the back on the lounge line it is difficult to get them to understand the concept in the long lines. If used properly the side reigns will teach by releasing pressure when the horse finds the correct frame. It is imperative to use the correct length and correct driving pressure with the whip so you do not teach the horse to rear. It helps to build the topline mussel so that when you use the long lines the horse starts to understand how to move up to the bit over his back and pushing from behind. I never use them in a way to restrict the horse only to help him understand what I am asking. The long-lines and driving is very similar to riding just that the whip is the driving aid instead of the leg. I would say that if the horse can not carry himself in the correct frame on the longe line it is unfair to ask him to do the same in front of a cart. I spend time on the lounge to teach and condition...ground drive to focus on teaching half halts and contact...then the cart to build the strength to do the same in the ground driving as he can in the long lines. One comes before the other. Not sure if this makes sense.

 

[jegray21]

this ace in side reigns here he is still a little tight in the neck...

http://photos-snc3.fbcdn.net/hs213.snc3/22043_632942017193_23202112_37590976_7144324_n.jpg

Here he is trying to carry himself a bit more up and to the bit but more relaxed so his stride is starting to open up. Ideally he needs to be more open in the throat latch but that this is still early and I am glad he is off his under neck

this is my 2 1/2 year old...she has loose contact and loose side reigns just to encourage her to reach to the bit...if she wanted to she could put her head up above the bit just not all the way like a para scope sp?.. You can see her lower back is up and throat latch is open...

K critic away!

 

[jegray21]

ok now the pics match mare is grey ace is the other one and here is another pic of ace

 

[jegray21]

State of the cart: Currently, Mingus is closer to being on the bit, and after warming up on our last trail drive, he settled into a gorgeous, relaxed road trot that felt like he could go on forever.

he looks very happy here...

 

[BannerBrat]

Thank you, Ashley! Your comments really show insight into Mingus. I neglected to mention that normally we do longe with a surcingle (actually the harness saddle and crupper), bridle and sliding side reins. I need to do this more, as each time he relaxes and carries himself much better.
He was new to this particular bit (French link butterfly) at the time of these photos and was most definitely avoiding contact. He now loves it , but at the time he was not used to it and was resisting. In addition, I had not previously been asking for the contact, and being Mingus, he resented my taking charge.

He has improved greatly in accepting contact, but still has a ways to go. I definitely need coaching on increasing contact and in guiding Mingus where he needs to go. I'd say it's a case of the blind leading the blind, but that's a bit too apt in my case, lol.

[SIZE=12pt]No problem Susanne, I've heard (& seen!)great things about sliding side reins but haven't gotten great results myself when I use them with Banner. He used to not tolerate them at all, but now he does but he really really doesn't like them. I've slacked off using them because I don't think I need to use them. I do think they are a good training tool, I just don't think they are a good choice for Banner. We'll see though...[/SIZE]

Haha, I know exactly what you mean with your second paragraph!

I think that as long as you are willing to learn and try (as much as your health allows!

) you a on the right track.

If you haven't already checked them out, the webinars (there a post on them on this forum) are great too. especially the ones with Jeff Morse.

Here's a link of some various interesting articles of carriage driving by Jeff Morse: Articles

Ashley, your horse is lovely. And Suzanne, you know how I feel about that gorgeous hunk of horse, Mingus! He is so amazing. I hope we see you at some more CDEs this summer.
I have a question for you both, about your carts. I am starting three horses this year (CRAZY! Especially when you find out that I am also starting two of my finished horses as a pair!), and all of them are in the 35-37" range. I am thinking that the standard sized Frontier will not be big enough for these guys. I notice that both of you have the 24" wheels on yours, do you also have the 55" shafts?

Thanks for any info.

[SIZE=12pt]Thank you, Amy.[/SIZE]

My cart is a Frontier mini cart with 24" wheels and 55" shafts, I, like Susanne would suggest the 55" shafts if your horses are big movers. The cart in my first driving picture is 48' shafts & 20" wheels and that was a tight squeeze for Banner. Do-able, but not ideal.

I can't wait to hear about your progress with your guys this year!

[SIZE=12pt]Hi![/SIZE]When I have the time I do start out by lunging him first until he's thoroughly warmed up and stretching. However I don't notice a difference in him. I suppose if I did it everytime before maybe I would though...

Respectively, I'm not really a fan of side reins and I don't think he'd benifet from it, but could you please elaborate more on what you mean if you have the time. And yes I definitely agree with the last two sentences.

The side reins in lounging can be used in a positive way. If the horse does not know how to move through the back on the lounge line it is difficult to get them to understand the concept in the long lines. If used properly the side reigns will teach by releasing pressure when the horse finds the correct frame. It is imperative to use the correct length and correct driving pressure with the whip so you do not teach the horse to rear. It helps to build the topline mussel so that when you use the long lines the horse starts to understand how to move up to the bit over his back and pushing from behind. I never use them in a way to restrict the horse only to help him understand what I am asking. The long-lines and driving is very similar to riding just that the whip is the driving aid instead of the leg. I would say that if the horse can not carry himself in the correct frame on the longe line it is unfair to ask him to do the same in front of a cart. I spend time on the lounge to teach and condition...ground drive to focus on teaching half halts and contact...then the cart to build the strength to do the same in the ground driving as he can in the long lines. One comes before the other. Not sure if this makes sense.

[SIZE=12pt] It does make sense, and thank you for taking time to explain more. If you don't mind I have a few more questions about it. I do understand what you mean about pushing into the side reins though. [/SIZE]

Do you adjust the side reins for the different bend of the circle? And change them for when you reverse? I'm guessing you use two side reins, is that how you start them out? Or just with one? Banner is in really good condition, and I'm thinking now we can really start making progress with retraining the right muscles.

Thank you again for your time, I really appreciate it.

this ace in side reigns here he is still a little tight in the neck...

http://photos-snc3.fbcdn.net/hs213.snc3/22043_632942017193_23202112_37590976_7144324_n.jpg

Here he is trying to carry himself a bit more up and to the bit but more relaxed so his stride is starting to open up. Ideally he needs to be more open in the throat latch but that this is still early and I am glad he is off his under neck

this is my 2 1/2 year old...she has loose contact and loose side reigns just to encourage her to reach to the bit...if she wanted to she could put her head up above the bit just not all the way like a para scope sp?.. You can see her lower back is up and throat latch is open...

K critic away!

[SIZE=12pt] The two pictures that show up for me, are of the same horse I think... unless you have two that are marked very closely!

I think Ace (I think that's the one in the pictures that are showing up) is moving very well & seems to be working very well into the bridle. In the cart, if he can do the same thing I would bet he looks really good. [/SIZE]

Just a wondering, do you have any problems with the bit being pulled through his mouth lunging like that? I haven't lunged that way because I worry that if whoever I was working was to spook they would pull the bit through their mouth and worsen the problem. But if it works for you then that's great.

Just a question for anyone who feels like answering....

How do you halt halt?

I try to 'pulse' one of the reins slightly, being as light as I think I can be. Sometimes I have to use 'pulses' harder then I'd care for though. and after these 'pulses' I carry on driving or then usually I half halt whenever we're going to do something other then going straight at the same pace, or when he feels like he neds to pay attention a little more.

 

[hobbyhorse23]

I'm not a great fan of fixed side reins as I feel they lack the sensitivity and give of a rider's hands but I do feel it's important to show the horse what we want in small steps before asking them for it in the cart. I frequently lunge my horses without any equipment to let them blow off steam and will sometimes use a lunge cavesson by itself to encourage the horse to tip his nose to the inside instead of getting resistant through his jaw, but I don't expect the horse will magically learn to stretch that way. Something has to show him the way to the ground and without long-lines of some sort attached that must be an auxillary rein such as a side rein or sliding side rein. Kody spent a lot of time with his nose to the ground naturally as he lunged but his weight was still on his forehand and he wasn't moving correctly despite the flexure of his neck. The addition of sliding side reins helped him learn to work through his back and find his balance a bit higher up. I have some photos of that show it well but unfortunately can't find them online at the moment. This is the closest I've got at the moment:

Both Mingus and Banner show good natural engagement and a talent for stepping up under themselves but neither horse (as pictured on this thread, not judging their current progress which of course we can't see

) is getting off his forehand or using his neck. Jegrays' horses are doing so beautifully although as she comments they are a little tense through the neck and jaw as to be expected of 2 and 3 year olds just being introduced to such work. I would personally prefer to use sliding side reins at that stage so the horse can move his head around and find out for himself where his most comfortable posture is and how to balance but side reins definitely have their place. I would not hesitate to use one side rein at a time on the inside of the circle to help a young horse understand (in combination with a strong driving aid from the handler) how to give to the bit and begin bending. After that however I prefer the sliding side reins in combination with a lunging cavesson to show the horse how to use his whole body. That lovely vertical head position should come naturally as a result of the horse moving from back to front...to force them into that posture without the correct foundation often leads to foreshortening of the neck and lots of tension from jaw to lower back which defeats the purpose.

Mingus is quite capable of lovely correct round movement, I've seen him do it and I think he was just excited at the beach. All he needed was a firm work session with frequent soft transitions and a lot of bending and I think he would have come right back down and focused. Banner sounds a lot like both Mingus and Kody as far as his temperment and that type of horse does take a delicate hand and lots of creativity and patience to bring to full flower. It's worth it though! I agree that he could benefit from limited use of sliding side reins just long enough to show him how to use his topline. He's a thinking horse just like our other boys...he'll take it as a puzzle and soon figure it out without ever getting annoyed at his driver as he can see clearly that you're standing there in the middle of the circle not doing a thing.

He's come a long way in his driving and is developing a powerful (and handsome!) musculature but he has not yet figured out how to truly work through his topline.

I promise I'll post some photos of my horse for critique in a separate thread and pick him absolutely to pieces for you guys.

It'll also be fun over the next two years to see if I can "walk the walk" as my almost-two year old naturally trails his hindquarters at a trot and tends to lock into an upheaded position and stay there. I'm looking forward to working with him and posting pictures as he hopefully learns to seek the bit and engage through the topline. We'll see!

Leia

 

[hobbyhorse23]

Sorry, was typing over time and missed the newest replies! Ashley, do you have any photos or video of exactly how Banner reacts when you use sliding side reins? Now I'm curious.

[SIZE=12pt] Do you adjust the side reins for the different bend of the circle? And change them for when you reverse? I'm guessing you use two side reins, is that how you start them out? Or just with one? Banner is in really good condition, and I'm thinking now we can really start making progress with retraining the right muscles. [/SIZE]

Patty Cloke's videos have the horse started out with one loose siderein on the inside, then adding a second rein on the outside and slowly tightening them over time. Yes, the inside rein is always at least one hole tighter than the outside to keep the horse bending. You do have to switch or adjust the reins when you switch directions.

[SIZE=12pt] Just a wondering, do you have any problems with the bit being pulled through his mouth lunging like that? I haven't lunged that way because I worry that if whoever I was working was to spook they would pull the bit through their mouth and worsen the problem. [/SIZE]

That's what the little "spoons" on a half-cheek bit are for.

A full-cheek bit is also a good choice for such work as it not only can't be pulled through the mouth but applies gentle pressure to the outside that helps the horse understand what you're asking for.

Leia

 

[jegray21]

You would want to adjust them based on the goal you are trying to achieve with the side reigns. If the horse is stiff to one side and he tends to face out then lengthen the outside side reign and shorten A LITTLE the inside..

In ace's case the side reigns are elastic and give him the give he needs..they are not there to HOLD the head down..just to be clear...I agree that they do not give as much as the reigns but will still argue that in the beginning a steady contact is helpful as long as they are not too short.

In the moment of the pic he is leaning on the bit and yes it is pulled through his mouth most of the time it sits right.

the half halt is a moment of POSITIVE tension the tells the horse yes go forward but up ward...I hold a fist and release...timing is everything in a half halt if you hold to long it will tighten the horse in mouth and neck..if it is not long enough the horse will consider it meaningless pulling on his bit. the other important point would be to be sure to keep the horse going forward through the half halt so they do not get short behind. That's how I was taught and so far it has worked.

not sure its the pic of my grey mare that I think showed up not sure...sorry for confusion on images...that shows how I transition them from just side reigns to steady reign contact...when she is solid in the contact of the reigns the side reins go away and she is steady and through pretty much all the time during her work...

 

[jegray21]

Full cheeks are great! I agree