Do You Think EINSTEIN Is A Dwarf?

[denny10012]

NO WAY IS HE A DWARF......IMO AND BY THE LOOKS OF IT MOST OTHER PEOPLES TOO..

 

[alphahorses]

I voted yes.

And frankly, it's astonishing to me that some people whom I considered knowledgable breeders say they don't see it.

Took the words out of my mouth... though the word "distrubing" came to mind as well as astonishing.

And as for Jill's question. Not "rude" in my opinion. Just asking what others think. Jill did not put this little dear out there for the public's consumption. His owners did. If they want the perks of flights around the country, hotel stays, notoriety (sp?), then they should be prepared for the other side of the coin. That's part of anyone's 15 minutes of fame.

Normally I would agree that it is rude to offer an unsolicited opinion on a horse. But, as StarRidgeAcres puts it, publicizing the horse as they have opens them up to public opinion. And I think it would be irresponsible of people who know and love miniature horses not to make the public aware that, while cute and deserving of love, this is something we should be striving NOT to reproduce.

 

[sfmini]

I voted yes, no question about it.

If I was called upon to hardship inspect a horse like him, I would not pass him and would recommend rejection of the application. Should they ever take his papers permanent, my guess is his papers will be revoked by AMHA.

I will see if I can get a soft copy of a presentation I attended on dwarfism when I was at an AMHA annual meeting, it was excellent. The person who gave the presentation is no longer active in the organization but I am sure someone will have it.

 

[jegray21]

My comment about rudeness was from a post on another thread. I don't think his owners are holding him up as "the standard," just that he is one cute little fella. I also don't feel that he should be bred, and I really don't think that is what they have in mind. MANY minis can't be gelded until they are well past age one. Will they geld him later? I would bet so. For now they are having fun with his uniqueness and I think that is fine. To each their own. I won't say anything more about this, I just really hate the judgement on individuals when they aren't doing anything to you. I love sharing my own minis, and if I had the opportunity to share them with the world, I think I would!

 

[jegray21]

OK, folks. I would love to see some gorgeous miniature horse out there being promoted to the general public as well. Just how would you go about doing it, eh? What makes a horse "marketable" to the television stations, magazines, news media, etc? I don't think anyone has truly figured out how to bring a beautifully conformed miniature horse into the public eye, but it might behoove us all to figure it out!

lol very true. I was thinking that he is not any different (besides the bad conformation) than many of the ones we get to see born on here. I still don't think he is the smallest one..have they said how tall he is. There has to be someone on here with one that is the same size with great conformation. We can call GMA for an interview

 

[targetsmom]

To get your well-conformed mini in the public eye, hire him/her an agent! I am not being sarcastic, I know someone (a forum member) who has done that and her gorgeous mini has been on the cover of magazines such as Vogue and bridal mags. Maybe she will post more details.

 

[gatorbait4sure]

My understanding is that these people have an agent, a book deal and are working ( or have been working )with Disney on a movie.

And Yes, I think he has dwarf characteristics.

What I'd like to know is how tall is he as a yearling.......I'll bet he measures as just a small mini.

My Prince filly is STILL 27" at three years....

............wonder if they'll share Disney's phone # with me......

 

[Molly's Run Minis]

Will they geld him later? I would bet so.

i would bet not. i highly doubt they will geld him. he's being marketed as 'Worlds Smallest Stallion'. i highly doubt they will change that because then he wouldnt be as popular to the press. theres no title for 'worlds smallest gelding'. besides the terrible confo and the possibility that he is a dwarf, i see nothing unique about him. my mare Honey was born pretty darn small, but did i call the press about it??

 

[Molly's Run Minis]

My understanding is that these people have an agent, a book deal and are working ( or have been working )with Disney on a movie.

And Yes, I think he has dwarf characteristics.

What I'd like to know is how tall is he as a yearling.......I'll bet he measures as just a small mini.

My Prince filly is STILL 27" at three years....

............wonder if they'll share Disney's phone # with me......

are you serious about Disney???

thats insane! poor Einstein, i still think they only bought him for the publicity and attention

ETA: Einstein was 14" at birth, thats nothing unique, many mini foals, including my Honey, are born that tall. aproaching his 1st b-day he's 20". my honey was 22". he could also very well have a growth spurt. over winter my honey went from 22" to 27"!

here's an article: Einstein Article it also mentions who his parents are, i can tell you i wont be buying any of their offspring any time soon!

 

[maestoso]

Good Grief!

A poll for fun or to educate is one thing. A poll that is simply to spite or to prove another wrong is a little ridiculous.

Jill, in many ways I agree with what you say about Einstein. However, it's not my horse, I'm not in charge of his publicity nor can I do anything about it, so I don't really care.

This poll is a little ridiculous.

 

[Jill]

Good Grief!

A poll for fun or to educate is one thing. A poll that is simply to spite or to prove another wrong is a little ridiculous.

Jill, in many ways I agree with what you say about Einstein. However, it's not my horse, I'm not in charge of his publicity nor can I do anything about it, so I don't really care.

This poll is a little ridiculous.

Matt --

You're welcome to find it ridiculous or not, and it's nice you found the time to participate in the thread even though you deem it silly. In that the thread and poll have received quite a bit of participation and comment, it must not be but so ridiculous.

While Einstein is not my horse and has no connection to my horses, he is being used as a representation to the public of what a miniature horse is and for that reason, I do think it's well worth commenting about. I'm not sorry to have done so.

Jill

 

[shelia]

I do not know if Einstein is a dwarf or not, but I do see some things that would make me wonder. His nostrils are to high on his nose. His roach back does not show up in the recent pictures or video. i believe he was born Premature and that was the reason for his weight. It could also be a reason for his back problem, if he still has it. His legs seem to be a good length and his joints don't seem to be overly large. His head looks a little big in some pics, but that could just be the pictures. His neck is long enough.

I don't condem the owners for promoting him. Okay, he is not show quality, but many people have therapy horses, 4h horses and horses in parades that are not show quality. Just because your mini isn't perfect is no reason to hide him away.

For those of you who say he is an obvious dwarf. Please educate us. What exactly are you seeing? Don't say bad conformation. That is just too broad.

I say the nostrils are too high and that makes me suspect he is a minimal dwarf.

 

[targetsmom]

Actually, I do find this poll quite educational. What I find interesting is that among the forum members who presumably know a lot about miniatures and something about dwarfs, the vote is pretty even for "dwarf" vs. "not dwarf". What does this say about "our" ability to recognize a dwarf in our own herds? I guess I would like to know what particular traits are suggesting to people that he is or isn't a dwarf?? I believe John Eberth mentioned on the dwarfism forum that bad conformation is not the same as dwarfism (although of course they can be related).

So what exactly screams "dwarf"?? Also, I thought (someone will correct me if I am wrong) that a mini had to have 2 or more of a certain list of characteristics to be a dwarf, but I can't find the list.

 

[horsehug]

Actually to be a dwarf, the horse has to have two copies of the same dwarf gene as I understand it.

If they only have one copy they are just a carrier of a dwarf gene, but not a dwarf.

I will be so glad when the tests are available. Then we will be able to completely avoid this guesswork (at least on our own horses).

Susan O.

 

[sfmini]

As I understand it, there is more than one type of dwarf, and they have not isolated the genes to be able to create a test. That said, I can't agree on the statement about each of the two parents having to have a copy of the gene when we don't know what the gene is and can't test for it.

The person in the know on this topic is John Eberth who is studying dwarfism scientifically. There is an old forum here where he discussed that topic.

I haven't read the entire dwarf forum, so I may be misinformed, but simply relying on logic.

 

[ohmt]

Yes they have isolated the genes and the horse must be homozygous recessive for any of the types to be a dwarf.

Also, I would like to say once again that there is no such thing as a minimal dwarf.

 

[CheyAut]

OK, folks. I would love to see some gorgeous miniature horse out there being promoted to the general public as well. Just how would you go about doing it, eh? What makes a horse "marketable" to the television stations, magazines, news media, etc? I don't think anyone has truly figured out how to bring a beautifully conformed miniature horse into the public eye, but it might behoove us all to figure it out!

Well, my drill team brought 10 of our team's horses to the World Equestrian Games, where we performed our drill routine every day for 8 days, as well as daily "meet and greet" where we brought our horses down to a place where the public could come meet them, pet them, ask questions. TONS of kids came through in school trips as well as adults! Doesn't get a whole lot bigger than the World Equestrian Games, although too bad not televised! We are doing our best to promote the American Miniature Horse

We've also been in the Rose Bowl Parade three times (hoping to get back in this coming year), the Calgary Stampede, Night of the Horse at Del Mar, horse festivals here, and we perform for schools, pet fairs, ect.

http://www.minimystique.org/weg.htm

This is my previous drill team horse, who went with us... (TCM Midnight Blues)

That horse is now my husband's drill team (and CDE) horse, and my new drill team horse is: (Timberview High Stakes Gambler)

 

[rabbitsfizz]

I think there are minimal dwarfs in exactly the same way that there are minimal pintos- it stands to reason, as far as I can see, and I think we have argued that one to a standstill on another thread!

As far as I know the genes have not been isolated- if they had been surely we would have a test?

 

[kaykay]

I think if people would say minimal "expression" dwarf or pinto then it makes more sense. A horse is a dwarf or not but it may only express it minimally. Same thing for a pinto. It is a pinto but only visually expresses it minimally.

 

[Katiean]

Ok, I am going to try this again. I think when a person says that the horse in a minimal dwarf it is the same as saying a horse is a minimal pinto. There may be a small spot on the pinto that is maybe even hidden under the mane. He is still a pinto. Just because a dwarf is not sevearly crippled by the dwarf gene but shows signs as everyone has pointed out it is still a dwarf even though it does not look like oh, say, Thumbalina. Everyone knows that she is a dwarf. Is she minimal? No. However, Einstine has a roach back and his neck IS too short. These charicteristics would be minimal. Let me ask this question of all of you that say he is not a dwarf. IF YOU WERE GIVEN THE OPERTUNITY TO BREED A MARE TO EINSTINE.....WOULD YOU? AND WHY OR WHY NOT?