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Breeding a mare after foaling a dwarf

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windwalker

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I have a 27.50inch mare that has had foals without any problem..she is 8 years old and this year when she foaled she had a dwarf and it had to be cut out of her...Is this mare a mare that any of you would ever breed again???

The stallion she was bred to was 30 inches and foaled other foals out of this same stallion 2 other times and foaled just fine...She foaled 2 other foals but they didnt get out of the sac out of 2 different stallions...

My vet said she would be ok to breed again..

Any thoughts would be helpfull...

The mare is fine didnt have any problems after having the foal cut out ..never run a fever or got any infection...
 

disneyhorse

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No, I absolutely wouldn't breed the mare again. Sorry. The miniature horse industry sees too many dwarfs, locking stifles, and bad bites. It has to be genetic, since other breeds aren't plagued like the minis are...

Andrea
 

windwalker

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Thanks Andrea...I have her on my site to a NON BREEDING HOME ...But I have had people wanting her to breed her and take a chance ..I dont want her to ever go thru that agian ..I dont want to ever go thru that again...Irene
 

backwoodsnanny

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Personally I would never breed her again but that said I will tell you a story. We bought a mare in foal several years ago and when she had the foal it was a dwarf we lost him at 4 months old and we dont breed our mares every year so when it was time to breed again I was NOT going to breed this mare but let my vet talk me into it sort of his theory was that since it took two copies of the gene to create a dwarf that she shouldnt have another dwarf if bred to a different stallion and sure enough she didnt she had a beautiful well conformed palomino pinto filly just what we had been hoping for. We were estatic until we discovered the filly was blind.After much testing it was determined that the filly had been born with no eyes. She is coming 2 this year and she is a sweet girl but her mother will NEVER be bred again and neither will any mare here who produces a dwarf, never again.
 

windwalker

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Thank you so much for telling me about your mare..That is what my vet told me also is that bred to my stallion she wont have another dwarf..But to see what that little mare went through just to get the dwarf out I could bare to put her or me through that again...She is the sweetest little mare and would like to find a non breeding home for her...I Thank everyone that has contacted me..All of you helped me to confirm my thoughts about this ...Thanks again Irene

Thank you so much for telling me about your mare..That is what my vet told me also is that bred to my stallion she wont have another dwarf..But to see what that little mare went through just to get the dwarf out I couldnt bare to put her or me through that again...She is the sweetest little mare and would like to find a non breeding home for her...I Thank everyone that has contacted me..All of you helped me to confirm my thoughts about this ...Thanks again Irene
 

backwoodsnanny

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You are more than welcome and dont get me wrong Helen Keller has been an inspiration and has taught us so very much but I wont ever breed a mare who has had a dwarf again. Helen is perfect in every other way and it breaks my heart that she is blind but since she doesnt know shes blind she is still a miracle and her mother had no problems having her I too would consider a home for them where neither of them would be bred but it would have to be a very special home and so far they are still here for that reason. I found a home for them in Tennesee but the cost of transporting them there is prohibitive for us so they live here in a pen that really is too small but still better than somewhere where they wouldnt be taken care of.
 

Greystone

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I too had a dwarf this spring and will not breed Ebony again. I also am not breeding my stallion again. He went to a pet family; they are going to geld him and use him to drive. Remember it takes two.

I too had a dwarf this spring and will not breed Ebony again. I also am not breeding my stallion again. He went to a pet family; they are going to geld him and use him to drive. Remember it takes two.
 

windwalker

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It breaks my heart to see what these little ones can go through...Is this problem more in the smaller minis?

I wanted to breed for the smaller ones but now i'm going with 30 to 32 inch mares instead of 27 to 28..I'm sure it can happen with any of them but was just wondering if its in the smaller ones more...Do you ladies have websites? I would enjoy looking at your horses...Thanks Irene
 

Shaladar

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I had a dwarf born 10 years ago out of a 33" mare. He was obviously struggling to live, (couldn't really breath, jello legs, etc.) so he was sent on his way. The mare was given away to friends for a pet, and the sire was gelded and is one of my best show horses. If I really look at him, I can see slight dwarf characteristics. Same with the mare, she may of been 33", but now I can see the dwarfism. And actually, she had a foal by side when I bought her, and now when I look at pictures of him, I can see that he was a dwarf too....very minimally affected, but a dwarf non the less.

It is a individual decision whether or not to re-breed. A lot of people do, and never have another dwarf. And those same people hold their breath until that "normal" foal is born.

I also remember many years ago, someone on this forum (I don't remember who) had a mare who had had 8 or 9 "normal" very nice leggy ,long necked foals by the same stallion, and then a dwarf. So who knows.

Sue
 

backwoodsnanny

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I only know about the one mare that we have but she is 31 1/2 and I have no idea who the dwarfs father was since I dont think it was the stallion that the owner told us it was. The color of the dwarf was impossible if the stallion she listed as stallion was in fact the father I think she had dwarves before and they just didnt want to tell us they figured if they bred the mare it would make her easier to sell. Today I can see that conformationally she is not what is being bred today but I still dont see dwarf when I look at her if I did I wouldnt have taken vet advice and bred her back with a different stallion and Helen is definately NOT a dwarf so I didnt get another dwarf but I still will not breed mom ever again. In fact if we have any conformational problem with a baby the mare does not get bred the same way again. Just not worth it. We do have a website if you want to go look but Helen and her mom are not on it. Its Maineprideminiatures.com
 

FoRebel

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My mother and I co-own a mare who supposedly has had 3 foals, 2 colts and a filly. She's 29" and has some dwarf characteristics. According to what I know, the said mare's 2 colts were dwarfs and needed to be pulled by a vet but yet the filly was fine. I know that when we start talking about which mares are getting bred and to which stallion the mare that had the dwarfs gets left out of every conversation just because we have an understanding that she will never be bred again. We just don't want to take the chance of having a dwarf.

IMO, I wouldn't breed her again.
 

Katiean

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I am not an expert in genetics. But this is my opinion so no flames please. I am sure the miniature horse is just like the Mini Rex rabbit. You want them to carry 1 dwarf gene. That gives the desired traits for the small size looking just like the larger counterpart. In Breeding the Mini Rex you actually hope for a Double Dwarf. That proves that they both carry the gene. At the same time you don't really want a double dwarf because they do not grow normally, an 8 week old bunny if they get that old they can walk right through a 2"x4" wire. The teeth are never normal and they have digestion problems. 99% of the time they die by 4 days of age. Now I do not believe you can get the tiny perfection with out a dwarf gene in there somewhere. In the rabbits you have a 25% chance of the double gene, 50%chance of a single gene (most desireable) and 25% chance of no dwarf gene. That last 25% usually go over size. which may account for the miniature horses that go oversize when they have small parents. I would breed her one more time and if sh produces a dwarf the I would place her as a pet and get a new breeding mare. JMO
 

rabbitsfizz

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Rabbit genetics and Horse genetics are completely different, as is the inheritance of colour in Rabbits and Horses.

Dwarfs are not confined to the tinies...there have been a number of instances on this Forum where "B" Minis have had dwarfs.

Dwarfs are also found in Friesians.

So , No, small Minis do not, automatically carry one Dwarf gene, nor is it desirable for them to do so.

It is more than possible to breed small horses without resort to Dwarfism of any kind whatsoever.

Like the others, I would not breed this mare, nor would I allow her to go with her papers unless you write firmly"NOT for Breeding" across them as I did with one mare I sold.

It is not "legal" but at least it makes a point!!!
 

Contessa

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Odd that no one mentioned this but IMO the stallion she was bred to needs to be gelded since he obviously carries the dwarf gene also. How many more dwarves will he be allowed to put on the ground? Can you PM me and tell me who the stallion is and what lines he comes from? I can make an educated guess who is in his background but I would like to know for sure. I am still putting together my herd and any information of this type is greatly appreciated as I do not want the possiblity of a dwarf if I can help it.
 

horsehug

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For anyone who has not seen it, or for newbies to the forum, a few months ago John Eberth who has done the most research on dwarfism in minis, of anyone, gave a question and answer seminar right here on Lil Beginnnings. It has a wealth of information on dwarfism. Here is the link to that part of the forum.

http://www.miniaturehorsetalk.com/index.ph...amp;s=&f=15

Susan O.
 

iloveappys

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I was reading your post and went to your site to send you an e-mail regarding a "non- breeding home" for your little mare.So I went back to your site and
..she's gone !!! Were you able to place her? or did you decide to keep her after all?
 

HGFarm

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Thanks Susan O for posting the link to the page on the Dwarfism.... there are some excellent questions and answers there. I was going over some of it with a friend the other day who is not a Forum member, but she found it quite interesting.
 

Bunnylady

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The dwarfing gene in Dwarf rabbits is desirable, in horses it most decidedly is not. I don't breed horses, so I have no stake in this, perhaps I should keep my opinion to myself. But, here goes.

We all agree that this is a recessive trait, both parents must have this gene for a dwarf foal to be produced. If you breed the same pair together 10 times, and the 10th foal is a dwarf, then every other foal you got from this breeding has a better than 60 percent chance of being a carrier. If a mare produces a dwarf once in her productive lifetime, every one of her other "normal" foals has a 50% chance of being a carrier, no matter who she was bred to. The same applies to stallions. It isn't just a matter of how many dwarfs are produced by any particular animal. If you know an animal can produce a dwarf, don't breed it! Until there is a test for the dwarf gene, the best we can do is reduce the risk of passing the gene on, by not breeding known carriers, period!
 

windwalker

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Thanks for all of your thoughts and feelings on breeding a mare back that has foaled a dwarf...Not that I'm going to breed her back but if I did would I be a bad person...Look at all the foals out there that have bad conformation and uneven bites..People register them and send them on down the line...I have seen more bad conformation and uneven bites than dwarfs but people seem to think thats not so bad and it is ...Thats why the market is flooded with pet quality minis...I dont care if you have the best bloodlines in the world your horses somewhere down the line are going to produce some foals with not so good conformation or uneven bites...I dont look down on anyone out there that may want to take another chance on there mare after she has produced a dwarf...she maynot ever have another one...I think its a personal thing...I dont agree with line breeding or inbreeding but people do it..
 

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