Barren Mare?

[andrea loves minis]

Hi everyone,

I have a 4 year old maiden mare in which we have tried to breed twice unsuccessfully. When do you consider them barren? We have tried to breed with 2 different proven stallions. She stood for both but never concieved. I would reallly appriciate any advice. Thank you!

 

[WhiteTailsMinis]

Do not give up - repeat - do NOT give up!

We purchased a mare that was supposed to have been bred - no foal at age 3. We bred her to our own stallion and no foal at age 4. We bred her again to different stallion and no foal at 5. Imagine our feelings at what we purchased!!!! We were beside ourselves as we bought her to be a broodmare.

So we then put her on an older stallion and tried once more - and THANK GOODNESS WE KEPT TRYING as this year at age 6 she has produced the most fabulous little buckskin filly ever! And after all the years getting her pregnant, we sure are keeping this little girl.

So .... don't give up. Whether its maturity or body condition (April was always a pig and always FAT and hardy) .......... just keep trying and mother nature will do the rest. We actually had April cultured and everything came back clean and the vet so no reason in his examination that she wouldn't or couldn't conceive. Guess she just wasn't ready yet but so glad we kept her and held out becuase if she keeps producing these awesome babies then she was definitely worth the wait!

Good luck to you - you may want to have a culture done and an exam by your vet - see what comes of that. If the culture comes back dirty - there are ways to treat it and then better chance to conceive.

I re-read your post again and wanted to add something:

It sounds like you are hand-breeding? Just because they stand for the stallion doesn't mean that breeding was on the "correct day" to settle the mare. If you stopped breeding because she stood there and accepted him you may have missed the "right day" altogether and she never took in the first place. I would hand breed every other day until she no longer accepts him. Its my understanding they are most fertile, or perhaps its that the egg releases - at the end of their cycle (so I've been told anyway and maybe I'm not wording it exactly right).

We hand breed also but then we turn the mares to the stallions in the pasture for couple of months for "clean up". If they didn't settle on their hand breed date, then he'll get them anyway when they cycle again in 28 days without us having to determine when that exact date should be.

Others can chime in and correct me but I just wanted to throw this out there for you to consider -

 

[andrea loves minis]

Do not give up - repeat - do NOT give up!

We purchased a mare that was supposed to have been bred - no foal at age 3. We bred her to our own stallion and no foal at age 4. We bred her again to different stallion and no foal at 5. Imagine our feelings at what we purchased!!!! We were beside ourselves as we bought her to be a broodmare.

So we then put her on an older stallion and tried once more - and THANK GOODNESS WE KEPT TRYING as this year at age 6 she has produced the most fabulous little buckskin filly ever! And after all the years getting her pregnant, we sure are keeping this little girl.

So .... don't give up. Whether its maturity or body condition (April was always a pig and always FAT and hardy) .......... just keep trying and mother nature will do the rest. We actually had April cultured and everything came back clean and the vet so no reason in his examination that she wouldn't or couldn't conceive. Guess she just wasn't ready yet but so glad we kept her and held out becuase if she keeps producing these awesome babies then she was definitely worth the wait!

Good luck to you - you may want to have a culture done and an exam by your vet - see what comes of that. If the culture comes back dirty - there are ways to treat it and then better chance to conceive.

Thanks so much for the encouragement! She is my favorite and I think she would produce the sweetest babies. She is very overweight maybe that's the problem? We thought she may have caught this time but she is just over weight

 

[WhiteTailsMinis]

Thanks so much for the encouragement! She is my favorite and I think she would produce the sweetest babies. She is very overweight maybe that's the problem? We thought she may have caught this time but she is just over weight

You're most welcome - wish you all the best. We were actually contacting the seller with our dismay over her not conceiving each year - and certainly could not sell her as a broodmare and try to explain why at 5 or 6 she had no foals ... she was way more than a pet priced horse - so we held out and it paid off. I hope it does for you also.

You may have replied before seeing my edit ... so will copy it here:

I re-read your post again and wanted to add something:

 

It sounds like you are hand-breeding? Just because they stand for the stallion doesn't mean that breeding was on the "correct day" to settle the mare. If you stopped breeding because she stood there and accepted him you may have missed the "right day" altogether and she never took in the first place. I would hand breed every other day until she no longer accepts him. Its my understanding they are most fertile, or perhaps its that the egg releases - at the end of their cycle (so I've been told anyway and maybe I'm not wording it exactly right).

We hand breed also but then we turn the mares to the stallions in the pasture for couple of months for "clean up". If they didn't settle on their hand breed date, then he'll get them anyway when they cycle again in 28 days without us having to determine when that exact date should be.

Others can chime in and correct me but I just wanted to throw this out there for you to consider -

 

[ohmt]

May I ask what your breeding regime is? How many days does she stand for the stallion? Some mares are a bit harder to get in foal. We had a mare we could not get in foal for years and last year as a 9 year old I put her in the pasture with one of my stallions for a companion and this year she gave me a beautiful little filly as a 10 year old maiden. Anyway, some of my mares will not take for a year or two after I breed them for the first time as 3-5 year olds and I don't mind as it gives them longer to mature.

 

[andrea loves minis]

Do not give up - repeat - do NOT give up!

We purchased a mare that was supposed to have been bred - no foal at age 3. We bred her to our own stallion and no foal at age 4. We bred her again to different stallion and no foal at 5. Imagine our feelings at what we purchased!!!! We were beside ourselves as we bought her to be a broodmare.

So we then put her on an older stallion and tried once more - and THANK GOODNESS WE KEPT TRYING as this year at age 6 she has produced the most fabulous little buckskin filly ever! And after all the years getting her pregnant, we sure are keeping this little girl.

So .... don't give up. Whether its maturity or body condition (April was always a pig and always FAT and hardy) .......... just keep trying and mother nature will do the rest. We actually had April cultured and everything came back clean and the vet so no reason in his examination that she wouldn't or couldn't conceive. Guess she just wasn't ready yet but so glad we kept her and held out becuase if she keeps producing these awesome babies then she was definitely worth the wait!

Good luck to you - you may want to have a culture done and an exam by your vet - see what comes of that. If the culture comes back dirty - there are ways to treat it and then better chance to conceive.

I re-read your post again and wanted to add something:

It sounds like you are hand-breeding? Just because they stand for the stallion doesn't mean that breeding was on the "correct day" to settle the mare. If you stopped breeding because she stood there and accepted him you may have missed the "right day" altogether and she never took in the first place. I would hand breed every other day until she no longer accepts him. Its my understanding they are most fertile, or perhaps its that the egg releases - at the end of their cycle (so I've been told anyway and maybe I'm not wording it exactly right).

We hand breed also but then we turn the mares to the stallions in the pasture for couple of months for "clean up". If they didn't settle on their hand breed date, then he'll get them anyway when they cycle again in 28 days without us having to determine when that exact date should be.

Others can chime in and correct me but I just wanted to throw this out there for you to consider -

We put them in a pen together and witnessed the breeding. We left them in together for 5 weeks and towards the end they didn't have any interest in each other so we assumed she was bred? Should we have left them longer? Thanks again

 

[ohmt]

Wanted to say also after reading your last post that if she is overweight then that is most likely the culprit! My overweight mares are much harder to get in foal so I would say don't bother trying to breed her until she is at a good weight.

 

[drmatthewtaylor]

Hi everyone,

I have a 4 year old maiden mare in which we have tried to breed twice unsuccessfully. When do you consider them barren? We have tried to breed with 2 different proven stallions. She stood for both but never concieved. I would reallly appriciate any advice. Thank you!

Never declared one 'barren' as if she will never get pregnant. Some are just less likely to get pregnant than others. Barren describes a mare who was attempted to be bred and did not settle, it does not describe the future.

I would encourage a reproductive exam and include a uterine culture and biopsy.

Dr Taylor

 

[andrea loves minis]

May I ask what your breeding regime is? How many days does she stand for the stallion? Some mares are a bit harder to get in foal. We had a mare we could not get in foal for years and last year as a 9 year old I put her in the pasture with one of my stallions for a companion and this year she gave me a beautiful little filly as a 10 year old maiden. Anyway, some of my mares will not take for a year or two after I breed them for the first time as 3-5 year olds and I don't mind as it gives them longer to mature.

Where we took Daisy they put them into a big round pen for a few days and then out to pasture until they aren't interested in each other anymore. Maybe she's one that needs longer. Thanks!

 

[andrea loves minis]

Never declared one 'barren' as if she will never get pregnant. Some are just less likely to get pregnant than others. Barren describes a mare who was attempted to be bred and did not settle, it does not describe the future.

I would encourage a reproductive exam and include a uterine culture and biopsy.

Dr Taylor

Thanks for the advice Dr. Taylor

 

[Tremor]

We had a mare that was bred from 2005-2008. She finally foaled in 2008. She was not a maiden though.

This mare was overweight and foundered which we believe caused her not to concieve. After we slimmed her down and trimmed her hooves god she foaled 2008, 2009, and 2011.

You may want to look at your mare and see what could be telling her body that she needs a break.

 

[ohmt]

Well my mares usually only stay in heat for 5-12 days so leaving them together for a couple of weeks is probably best. I personally like to hand breed best because it's easier to know exactly when the mare comes in and exactly when they go out and exactly when they were covered. For hand breeding my maiden mares I breed every other day up until 3 days before their heat ends and then breed every day. That will almost always work. If they're overweight though, depending on how overweight, I will not even attempt until they are back at a healthy weight as it is just a waste of the stallion. How overweight is your mare? Do you have a picture you can share? My broodmares are usually a bit 'fluffy' but still healthy. I have one who is very overweight and is on a diet at the moment as it is definitely unhealthy.

 

[andrea loves minis]

Well my mares usually only stay in heat for 5-12 days so leaving them together for a couple of weeks is probably best. I personally like to hand breed best because it's easier to know exactly when the mare comes in and exactly when they go out and exactly when they were covered. For hand breeding my maiden mares I breed every other day up until 3 days before their heat ends and then breed every day. That will almost always work. If they're overweight though, depending on how overweight, I will not even attempt until they are back at a healthy weight as it is just a waste of the stallion. How overweight is your mare? Do you have a picture you can share? My broodmares are usually a bit 'fluffy' but still healthy. I have one who is very overweight and is on a diet at the moment as it is definitely unhealthy.

I will try to get a more recent pic of her today (if it will stop raining) Thanks

 

[andrea loves minis]

I will try to get a more recent pic of her today (if it will stop raining) Thanks

Here are some pics of Daisy. She could def benefit from a diet

 

[AnnaC]

Nice mare! Yes she is a bit overweight but I certainly wouldn't call her gross. I suggest that you get your vet to give her a check over and take some tests before you try breeding from her again.

Good luck!

Anna

 

[andrea loves minis]

Nice mare! Yes she is a bit overweight but I certainly wouldn't call her gross. I suggest that you get your vet to give her a check over and take some tests before you try breeding from her again.

Good luck!

Anna

Thanks for the advice! Will do

 

[lil hoofbeats]

I agree with what everyone else says, the last breeding seminar i went to said the conception for pasture breeding was 90%, hand breeding 80%, AI dropped to 60%, and that was dependent on the knowledge of the person doing it, sooooo.... that kinda tells me Mother Nature does her job better than we do.

HOWEVER, if you have a mare that has a hard time clearing the debree after breeding( as you know this is not a sterile act) pasture breeding is NOT the way to go. Breeding creates an inflammatory response that takes about 24 hours to clear, so breeding more often that once 24 hours, the stallion may as well ejaculate on the ground because that breeding is useless.

I have used a flush that Dr. Blackwelder at the Statesville equine and Bovine center in Statesville NC told me to use, and he is kinda known as the repo man. It is 5 ml of PCN 300,000 units per ML, and Amikacin 2 ml in 100 to 150 ml of sterile water if the mare is under 10 years old infuse one time wait 48 hours and if the mare is still in heat breed her. If the mare is OVER 10 years old infuse her with this medicine 3 days in a row wait 48 hours, and IF the mare is still in heat, breed her.

i ask Dr. Blackwelder if i should culture/biopsy her, and he said well.... you can.... if you have alot of extra money burning a hole in your pocket, but even if we did the culture and biopsy he is STILL going to flush her with these meds in this fashion, and Dr. Blackwelder said "if this flush does NOT cure the problem, you dont want the mare!!

I have used this for several "problem" mares and my friends have used this flush and have had EXCELLENT results

By the way flushing is EASY,a nd was much easier for me to learn than reading ultrasounds. WASH the mare well, find the cervix which is the only thing up in the vagina, and when the mare is in heat you can easily stick your finger in it to guide the sterile pipet, EASY just too EASY , completely IDIOT proof ANYONE and i mean ANYONE can do this once shown. EASY, EASY, EASY

If anyone wants Dr. B's phone number 1-704-873-1743

 

[Riverrose28]

I agree with all the others on having a culture done. I feel that the best time for mares to conceive is between April and June, but I have one mare that likes to conceive in the early winter months, only. Very frustrating as she delivers in Nov. or Dec. She's a champion and gives us very nice fillies no colts ever. She's just picky. I don't think your mare is obese but could stand to lose just a little.

 

[drmatthewtaylor]

I agree with what everyone else says, the last breeding seminar i went to said the conception for pasture breeding was 90%, hand breeding 80%, AI dropped to 60%, and that was dependent on the knowledge of the person doing it, sooooo.... that kinda tells me Mother Nature does her job better than we do.

HOWEVER, if you have a mare that has a hard time clearing the debree after breeding( as you know this is not a sterile act) pasture breeding is NOT the way to go. Breeding creates an inflammatory response that takes about 24 hours to clear, so breeding more often that once 24 hours, the stallion may as well ejaculate on the ground because that breeding is useless.

I have used a flush that Dr. Blackwelder at the Statesville equine and Bovine center in Statesville NC told me to use, and he is kinda known as the repo man. It is 5 ml of PCN 300,000 units per ML, and Amikacin 2 ml in 100 to 150 ml of sterile water if the mare is under 10 years old infuse one time wait 48 hours and if the mare is still in heat breed her. If the mare is OVER 10 years old infuse her with this medicine 3 days in a row wait 48 hours, and IF the mare is still in heat, breed her.

i ask Dr. Blackwelder if i should culture/biopsy her, and he said well.... you can.... if you have alot of extra money burning a hole in your pocket, but even if we did the culture and biopsy he is STILL going to flush her with these meds in this fashion, and Dr. Blackwelder said "if this flush does NOT cure the problem, you dont want the mare!!

I have used this for several "problem" mares and my friends have used this flush and have had EXCELLENT results

By the way flushing is EASY,a nd was much easier for me to learn than reading ultrasounds. WASH the mare well, find the cervix which is the only thing up in the vagina, and when the mare is in heat you can easily stick your finger in it to guide the sterile pipet, EASY just too EASY , completely IDIOT proof ANYONE and i mean ANYONE can do this once shown. EASY, EASY, EASY

If anyone wants Dr. B's phone number 1-704-873-1743

Although there are many things here I don't agree with, I will concede that these things are opinions and Dr. Blackwelder is certainly entitled to his.

I would encourage you to check again with him about using water as the flush solution. Saline or Lactated Ringers is generally regarded as far less inflammatory than water would be. I would be hesitant to use water unless breeding was not going to be imminent (I only use water on mares that have retained placentas).

Dr Taylor

 

[Michelle@wescofarms]

Definitely agree, I wouldn't give up. I would rule out underlying infections, internal conformation problems, etc., but it may just have been bad timing.

I'm in agreement on the pasture breeding too. Especially with an experienced stallion, he'll know the proper time to cover her.

White Tail made the comment about selling a 5 year old with no foaling history. Personally, we do NOT breed 2 year olds, rarely a 3 yr old. Most of our herd is 4-5-6 before they're bred the first time. I want them mentally and physically ready. I've had alot less foaling problems since I started holding off another year or so.

I did the breed them young on bad advice when I got into Minis, and dealing with immature mares (mentally) - well I feel its like a teen girl can get pregnant but should she thing?, I've also had older mares that were bred for 12-15 years in a row from the age of 2 on (12-16 foals by the age of 20) and personally I won't do it. I don't have the 'this is your cash cow' mentality, so keep them bred I guess.

Sorry for hijacking your thread.