Appy Question

[Maple Hollow Farm]

I am just curious about the difference between frosted appies and spotty ones. I have a appy mare that is the frosted type and just has the roaning throughout her coat but no spots that I can find but extremely modeled skin. My question is can she produce a foal with actual spots or will they always just have the roaning if any? I only have solid or pinto stallions so she wouldnt be bred to an appy with spots to produce spots and I am just wondering if it is possible to get spotty babies out of her without breeding to an appy. Thanks in advance!

 

[Lucky-C-Acres-Minis]

Appy patterns are such a crapshoot lol You never know what you're going to end up with

And just when you *think* you know, you end up with something entirely different then what you were expecting..

There's a big appy breeder that I've been following their program for a while and this year's foals have been quite the surprise.. They bred a bay roan spotted hip mare to a chestnut spotted blanket stallion and ended up with a bay leopard colt.. They bred a chocolate chestnut (darker chestnut than your typical bright red) to the same stallion above and got a VIVID, put on your sunglasses, bright chestnut near leopard colt with HUGE spots.. Then they bred to chestnut leopards together and ended up with a snowcap colt, a leopard with the chestnut spotted blanket stallion and got a blanketed colt, and finally a frosted blanket red roan mare to the chestnut spotted blanket and got a chestnut filly with some white "thumbprints" on her hips..

Only "guarantee" you have with apps is that if you use a few-spot or snowcap you're gonna get a colored foal or a foal with characteristics that will color out later..

Now for your mare, I would doubt she'd produce spots, especially with solid or pinto, but who knows for sure

More than likely she'll produce the same roaning/frosting.. BUT that being said, last year I had a colt born, sire is my black near leopard + splash +varnish roan stallion and dam is a black tobiano + splash mare.. Colt was born solid black with just characteristics (mottling, and striping on hooves), come clipping around a month old he had a few white hairs coming in on his hips.. By 2-3 months old he had even more and what looked like tiny spots (about the size of a pencil eraser), by weaning even more white hairs, in his winter coat you could tell he was getting white hairs through out his body as the lower part of his coat looked white but the tips still black giving him a frosted look, so was expecting frosting or for him to have gone white due to the varnish roan since the "spots" he had were so tiny, well just took the clippers to his hips and "unwrapped" an area to find he is indeed spotted with frosting

No doubt there's spots there now, and since the white looks to go up to his shoulders I wouldn't be surprised to find spots all the way up there as well

Course I'm ecstatic that there's spots, but definitely not what I was expecting at first!

 

[rabbitsfizz]

You are right about the "crapshoot" bit, it's exactly the same as a Pinto pattern, you can cross two minimals or even one minimal on a solid, and get a loud patterned foal....I had a characteristics only no spots, no roaning really not much at all, mare, and crossed to a definite not - appy stallion she produced the loudest patterned colt I have seen for a long time, I mean strike up the band and march to the tune of it LOUD!!!!

So, really, until we have some sort of testing to help these things along, your mare could produce any pattern at all, under the sun, up to and including a few Pinto patterns as well.....any white on her face???

 

[Maple Hollow Farm]

Thanks for the replies. I am breeding some appies some pinto and some pintaloosas so I am just trying to determine what color patterns she could throw. This year she is bred for a July foal to our buckskin pinto son of Alvadars Double Destiny so I was wondering if I could hope for some real spots. She had a nice pintaloosa filly last year that is the same dark chestnut as she is and when she was a baby you could see the roaning around her tobiano markings so I am hoping they are still there when I clip her. Here is a pic of the appy mare in question and yes she has a almost perfectly straight stripe on her face and her filly has the exact same one too.

 

[Knighthawke]

I know personally I bred at black frosted mare to a black snowflake got a sorrel colt with a large blanket.

Barb

 

[Maple Hollow Farm]

I know personally I bred at black frosted mare to a black snowflake got a sorrel colt with a large blanket.Barb

So your saying I have a slight chance?

 

[ontherisefarm]

I used to raise big appys. My mare was a snowflake/roan. I I bred her to mostly solid colored quarter horses and ended up with the prettiest blanketed foals out of her. She only gave me one solid foal and he had characteristics..So you gotta shot...

 

[Bethany]

Awesome topic!!!

I was wondering the same thing

Also I just had a colt born the other day (you can see pics of him inc hooves on the thread "its a colt") who was born black but has very! stripey hooves and the tiniest bit of mottling on his sheath you can only see it if he "hangs" it out lol his mum is non appy and dad has appy roaning over his rump and back and a few small spots that have appeared. How dod I know if this colt will get roaning to???

Is it guarenteed because of his characteristics??

Thanks

 

[Maple Hollow Farm]

Awesome topic!!!I was wondering the same thing

Also I just had a colt born the other day (you can see pics of him inc hooves on the thread "its a colt") who was born black but has very! stripey hooves and the tiniest bit of mottling on his sheath you can only see it if he "hangs" it out lol his mum is non appy and dad has appy roaning over his rump and back and a few small spots that have appeared. How dod I know if this colt will get roaning to???

Is it guarenteed because of his characteristics??

Thanks

Its possible, there was another thread that talked about the roaning and how late to expect it and it seems to vary a lot with different horses but one thing I notice is every time I clip a horse that has the roaning it seems to show more each time. I have a yearling dun filly that as far as I know has no appy parentage but she has striped hooves so does that mean she is a appy too and her parents just arent recognized as appies on their papers?

 

[Lucky-C-Acres-Minis]

Bethany your colt sounds exactly like the colt I'm talking about! Mare is non-appy (tobiano and splash pinto), sire is near leopard, varnish and splash.. Ours was born jet black, had striping to his hooves, at first thought dang no coloring or much characteristics and he didn't have mottling around his muzzle etc so didn't expect for him to color out, until he pee'd for the first time and yep, mottled boy part!

lol

As time went on he started getting frosting on his hips:

Last decent picture before heavy winter coat:

And just clipped this a few days ago, yep, those are true spots, the ones more on the side are bigger, have a feeling they'll be clear up to his withers, will see.. Going to make a fleece blanket for him to go under the turn-out blanket I have so I can clip on his body more:

 

[Bethany]

WOW

thats what I have my fingers crossd for lol hes so white in the last pic!!

My mare is similar to yours too. Shes black with tobiano, splash and most likely sabino.

Very similar face markings too

I might clip his rump in a month or 2 and see if there is any white!! If not at least he has funky coloured hooves haha

Will do a search for the roaning thread aswell will be a good read.

Is there lots of appys with characteristics that dont colour out???

 

[Bunnylady]

Its possible, there was another thread that talked about the roaning and how late to expect it and it seems to vary a lot with different horses but one thing I notice is every time I clip a horse that has the roaning it seems to show more each time. I have a yearling dun filly that as far as I know has no appy parentage but she has striped hooves so does that mean she is a appy too and her parents just arent recognized as appies on their papers?

While striped hooves are one of the Appy characteristics (along with mottled skin and visible sclera on the eyes,) striped hooves alone do not an Appy make!

There are other colors and patterns that can also show striped hooves.

 

[Maple Hollow Farm]

Its possible, there was another thread that talked about the roaning and how late to expect it and it seems to vary a lot with different horses but one thing I notice is every time I clip a horse that has the roaning it seems to show more each time. I have a yearling dun filly that as far as I know has no appy parentage but she has striped hooves so does that mean she is a appy too and her parents just arent recognized as appies on their papers?

While striped hooves are one of the Appy characteristics (along with mottled skin and visible sclera on the eyes,) striped hooves alone do not an Appy make!

There are other colors and patterns that can also show striped hooves.

I know that and the other possibility is that she has some sort of pinto gene but there were two horses in her pedigree on the studbook that were possible appies, I can't remember why on one of them but the other one mentioned a few white spots or something on its hips so I don't know and probably wont know unless I have her tested for the genes. When they are born they should come out with a sheet that says "Hi, I am this color and carry these genes!".

 

[Bunnylady]

That would be nice! Or, failing that, it would also be nice if genotype (what the horse's genes code for) always had one unique phenotype (what the animal actually looks like) to go with it. This color/pattern = this gene! Oh, well. I can dream, can't I?

 

[ontherisefarm]

Just some info on mottling..Spotting on the actual penis does not count as mottling. I have seen solid stallions with no appy parentage have pink patches on there. It only counts on the anus and actual outside sheath not the penis itself so hanging out wouldnt show the right mottling. I used to raise appies ( big ones for several years ) Just some information I picked up over the years...

 

[Bethany]

Thats good to know, thanks! No doubt ill be watching him like a hawk for any sign of mottling etc lol

Also does anyone have any close up photos of the white sclera. This is my first appy (even if just characteristics) so dont really know what im looking at re: the eyes I know its white around the iris like a human eye but would love to see some pics

 

[Maple Hollow Farm]

Thats good to know, thanks! No doubt ill be watching him like a hawk for any sign of mottling etc lol
Also does anyone have any close up photos of the white sclera. This is my first appy (even if just characteristics) so dont really know what im looking at re: the eyes I know its white around the iris like a human eye but would love to see some pics

Here is one of my appy mares. Just a head shot but it shows her moddling on her muzzle and the whites of her eyes. You can see a lot more in the summer when she is shed out I just dont have pictures then I have only owned her for a little less than a year.

 

[Bethany]

Thanks for the photo!

Great reference