Wild Horses

Miniature Horse Talk Forums

Help Support Miniature Horse Talk Forums:

This site may earn a commission from merchant affiliate links, including eBay, Amazon, and others.

miniwhinny

Well-Known Member
Joined
Jan 24, 2005
Messages
1,445
Reaction score
0
Recently there has been a number of posts relating to the keeping and breeding of stallions and appropriate ages of breeding mares and stallions. While I don’t claim to be an expert on these subjects I’d love to be able to share some of my experience studying the wild mustangs of South Eastern Oregon.

For the past 7 years I have spent many, many, many hours crouched behind juniper trees in some of Oregon’s wild horse HMA’s learning about the habits of horses under natural conditions. Knowing a little about how a horse behaves in the wild helps (IMO) to provide him/her with a captive life as close to a horses own needs and instincts as possible.

Living in teh wild is no cake walk don't get me wrong. This post is just highlighting a horses social life in a herd situation.

Weaning.

Wild horses are obviously not weaned at 4-6 months. In the wild a mare will still be nursing her previous years foal at a year old when the next baby is born. She will continue to nurse both the current years foal and the previous years foal right up to dropping a new baby. When this happens the older colt/filly– now 2 to 3 year old – will be pushed out. And on and on…Obviously the older foal is nursing more for comfort than for nurishment,

2/3 year olds

When the new foal crop is born most 2 year olds are then chased from the herds. The mares run their daughters off and the stallions chase off all young studs. Wild horses do this instinctively and very little inbreeding ever occurs.

Fillies

When a 2 year old filly is pushed out from the herd (the mare will chase her off) it takes no time (literally) for her to be rounded up by another stallion. She is open game for any stallion wishing to claim her. Unlike the movies wild horse herds do not consist of one mighty stallion running a herd of hundreds of mares. Wild horses live in fairly small bands (1 stud to 2 or 3 mares and offspring) more commonly than large herds consisting of 10-20 mares with a main herd sire and a couple of younger ‘lieutenant†studs. These secondary studs and the bachelor studs are constantly on the lookout for their own mares and quickly claim the young 2 year olds when they are kicked out. Many 2 year old fillies are bred.

Colts

When the 2 year old colts are kicked out of their family units their immediate instinct is to get back in a herd situation for comfort, company and safety. Horses are social animals. Because they are a threat to rival stallions they form bachelor bands of other young single studs. However, their driving instinct is to start their own harum of mares. The reason in the wild that very few 2 year old colts aren’t breeding isn’t their inability or lack or desire to do so, it’s because they lack the aggression and experience of a more mature stud and therefore find it hard (and dangerous) to “steal†a mare for themselves or to keep one they have found from being taken from them. Sometimes these younger boys join an established band as a “lieutenant†living just on the outside of the herd. Here they help the mature stallion defend the unit but also once in a while get to breed a mare themselves.

In captivity

In reproducing a life for our horses that enables them to thrive mentally as well as physically it’s important to know how they’d live given the freedom to choose their own life. ( I’m NOT saying life in the wild is prefect by any means) Domesticity brings many benefits including free meals and health care but it can also play havoc on a horses natural instincts, which despite eons of being domestic, still remain strong.

Remember…horses are herd creatures. To be kept alone is an unnatural state to a horse and even more so to a stallion whose needs to breed and have a herd outweigh every other need. Think of it this way…geldings wake in the morning- think “ oh what a lovely day†go grazing singing “dumb de dumb oh happy dayâ€. Mares wake and think “oh what a lovely day. I wonder what I’ll find to eat today and once in a while..I wonder if there are any handsome boys around hereâ€. A stallion wakes and thinks “mares, mares, mares and more mares oh yeah..food too…and more maresâ€. Stallions are pre-programmed to spend their days thinking “find a mare, find a mareâ€. Unless you really need your horse to remain a stud and can provide him with the life he deserves then gelding is the best option. This frustration is often the cause of stallions developing behavior issues. After owning mustang stallions and knowing dozens of mustang stallions I have yet to meet one who has aggression issues or bad habits when allowed to run with a mare band. An old Mustanger once gave me the advice that “if you allow your stallion to live and learn from his mares you’ll never have a bad horseâ€.

I personally took this to heart. I have a 2 year old stud who lives with his 3 year old “wifeâ€. After learning that you’re gonna get nailed if you charge at her like a bull in a china shop he has become THE most gentle boy. He sweet talks her for hours, grazes and sleeps at her side. Leaves her alone when she wants him to (just a slightly pinned ear is all she has to do now) Rounds up our pesky dogs and chases them off if they get too close to her. My farrier thought he was gelded because of his nature (until I laughed and told him to check the plumbing) He doesn’t bite, kick, strike or push into your space. I can tell he’s happy, well adjusted and frustration free.

I’m not on a soap box knocking anyone doing things differently. I know it’s hard to let your prize boy get a few life lessons during the first few months learning how to respect his mares. I also know that not all studs and mares get along. Just like in the wild some can’t stand each other. Sometimes even color is an important factor and some horses have their personal preferences. If it’s obvious a “relationship†isn’t going to work you have to make other plans.

I just want to share my experience and show how a horses wild instincts strongly control the little friends we share our lives with today.
 
Recently there has been a number of posts relating to the keeping and breeding of stallions and appropriate ages of breeding mares and stallions. While I don’t claim to be an expert on these subjects I’d love to be able to share some of my experience studying the wild mustangs of South Eastern Oregon.

For the past 7 years I have spent many, many, many hours crouched behind juniper trees in some of Oregon’s wild horse HMA’s learning about the habits of horses under natural conditions. Knowing a little about how a horse behaves in the wild helps (IMO) to provide him/her with a captive life as close to a horses own needs and instincts as possible.

Living in teh wild is no cake walk don't get me wrong. This post is just highlighting a horses social life in a herd situation.

Weaning.

Wild horses are obviously not weaned at 4-6 months. In the wild a mare will still be nursing her previous years foal at a year old when the next baby is born. She will continue to nurse both the current years foal and the previous years foal right up to dropping a new baby. When this happens the older colt/filly– now 2 to 3 year old – will be pushed out. And on and on…Obviously the older foal is nursing more for comfort than for nurishment,

2/3 year olds

When the new foal crop is born most 2 year olds are then chased from the herds. The mares run their daughters off and the stallions chase off all young studs. Wild horses do this instinctively and very little inbreeding ever occurs.

Fillies

When a 2 year old filly is pushed out from the herd (the mare will chase her off) it takes no time (literally) for her to be rounded up by another stallion. She is open game for any stallion wishing to claim her. Unlike the movies wild horse herds do not consist of one mighty stallion running a herd of hundreds of mares. Wild horses live in fairly small bands (1 stud to 2 or 3 mares and offspring) more commonly than large herds consisting of 10-20 mares with a main herd sire and a couple of younger ‘lieutenant†studs. These secondary studs and the bachelor studs are constantly on the lookout for their own mares and quickly claim the young 2 year olds when they are kicked out. Many 2 year old fillies are bred.

Colts

When the 2 year old colts are kicked out of their family units their immediate instinct is to get back in a herd situation for comfort, company and safety. Horses are social animals. Because they are a threat to rival stallions they form bachelor bands of other young single studs. However, their driving instinct is to start their own harum of mares. The reason in the wild that very few 2 year old colts aren’t breeding isn’t their inability or lack or desire to do so, it’s because they lack the aggression and experience of a more mature stud and therefore find it hard (and dangerous) to “steal†a mare for themselves or to keep one they have found from being taken from them. Sometimes these younger boys join an established band as a “lieutenant†living just on the outside of the herd. Here they help the mature stallion defend the unit but also once in a while get to breed a mare themselves.

In captivity

In reproducing a life for our horses that enables them to thrive mentally as well as physically it’s important to know how they’d live given the freedom to choose their own life. ( I’m NOT saying life in the wild is prefect by any means) Domesticity brings many benefits including free meals and health care but it can also play havoc on a horses natural instincts, which despite eons of being domestic, still remain strong.

Remember…horses are herd creatures. To be kept alone is an unnatural state to a horse and even more so to a stallion whose needs to breed and have a herd outweigh every other need. Think of it this way…geldings wake in the morning- think “ oh what a lovely day†go grazing singing “dumb de dumb oh happy dayâ€. Mares wake and think “oh what a lovely day. I wonder what I’ll find to eat today and once in a while..I wonder if there are any handsome boys around hereâ€. A stallion wakes and thinks “mares, mares, mares and more mares oh yeah..food too…and more maresâ€. Stallions are pre-programmed to spend their days thinking “find a mare, find a mareâ€. Unless you really need your horse to remain a stud and can provide him with the life he deserves then gelding is the best option. This frustration is often the cause of stallions developing behavior issues. After owning mustang stallions and knowing dozens of mustang stallions I have yet to meet one who has aggression issues or bad habits when allowed to run with a mare band. An old Mustanger once gave me the advice that “if you allow your stallion to live and learn from his mares you’ll never have a bad horseâ€.

I personally took this to heart. I have a 2 year old stud who lives with his 3 year old “wifeâ€. After learning that you’re gonna get nailed if you charge at her like a bull in a china shop he has become THE most gentle boy. He sweet talks her for hours, grazes and sleeps at her side. Leaves her alone when she wants him to (just a slightly pinned ear is all she has to do now) Rounds up our pesky dogs and chases them off if they get too close to her. My farrier thought he was gelded because of his nature (until I laughed and told him to check the plumbing) He doesn’t bite, kick, strike or push into your space. I can tell he’s happy, well adjusted and frustration free.

I’m not on a soap box knocking anyone doing things differently. I know it’s hard to let your prize boy get a few life lessons during the first few months learning how to respect his mares. I also know that not all studs and mares get along. Just like in the wild some can’t stand each other. Sometimes even color is an important factor and some horses have their personal preferences. If it’s obvious a “relationship†isn’t going to work you have to make other plans.

I just want to share my experience and show how a horses wild instincts strongly control the little friends we share our lives with today.


Sorry, a little off the subject, but was just wondering if you were the MiniWhinny Farm that had Mini Whinny Elayshun and Mini Whinny Little Fox? I have been trying to find a pic of Little Fox but can only find pics of Elayshun and mentions of his name here and there.
 
Sorry, a little off the subject, but was just wondering if you were the MiniWhinny Farm that had Mini Whinny Elayshun and Mini Whinny Little Fox? I have been trying to find a pic of Little Fox but can only find pics of Elayshun and mentions of his name here and there.

Sorry, I'm not...wish I could help. :no:
 
Sorry, a little off the subject, but was just wondering if you were the MiniWhinny Farm that had Mini Whinny Elayshun and Mini Whinny Little Fox? I have been trying to find a pic of Little Fox but can only find pics of Elayshun and mentions of his name here and there.

Sorry, I'm not...wish I could help. :no:

Oh Sorry, Anyway, some interesting info you have here and it is very cool that you live in an area where you get to observe the horses in the wild!!!! All we get to observe around our place is coyotes. What fun!
 
I enjoyed reading your post. It is most informative. And oh how I wish I had the chance to see and watch wild horses. I really envy you.
 
HI :saludando: I LOVED YOUR POST
default_yes.gif
:

i remember watching KELLY MARKS go into the wild and she set up a camp near the watering hole, and was able to bring a stallion ...untouched... into a ring and make friends with it, and ride it with in days, she thought it was a fluke until she done it again with another stallion, after a period she let them both go, you called one MUDDY WATERS it was so fasanating to watch the trust that an untouched horse has in a human when the have never known abuse by them.........truly fasanating
default_rolleyes.gif
:
 
Thanks, I'm glad you've enjoyed reading.

Another misconception that we have is concerning the stallions. I bet it comes from the movies where some magnificent black stallion leads a massive herd. In reality it's the boss mare who makes All the descisions. The boys do protect the herd but on every trip out to the HMA's bar none it's been the boss mare leading. On more than one occasion we've had the mare spot us (or smell us) take the herd and head out of Dodge leaving the stallion behind 'cus he was busy eating when the herd left. One time when a band came down to the watering hole in teh evening they got all the way down the hill before the "big guy" noticed. Boy did he run. I'm sure in his mind he was saying "oh I sure hope no one else noticed" LOL

There's a cool group in the Steens Mountain Pinto herd. This is a herd managed for pinto colors. There was a very dominant stallion there a number of years ago with a large band. There are a couple of roads through the are and one day/night (not sure) he was hit by a truck and killed. We found his old band a few years ago...this is cool...there are now 5 seperate bands. Each is led by a single stallion. I've been told by BLM people that these 5 studs are all brothers, sons of the old stallion. When we watched them they were all taking their mid day snooze in a small canyon. After watching (what we thought was one large herd) for perhaps an hour one of the boss mares spotted us and instantly the herd rose to their feet. All 5 bands were together! They took off seperatly, left the canyon and joined back as one band with all 5 studs on the edges and they galloped off. I've never seen this happen before and I'd bet it's pretty unusual.
 
Last edited by a moderator:
if you allow your stallion to live and learn from his mares youll never have a bad horse. :aktion033:

I agree 100% my husband and I hand breed and than if they have not taken, nature will do the rest. Our miniatures all run together.

default_yes.gif
: We have watched the stallion do more babysitting and teaching the young than the mare after they are around 1 month old.

Thanks for sharing I found this most interesting.
 
Last edited by a moderator:
An old Mustanger once gave me the advice that “if you allow your stallion to live and learn from his mares you’ll never have a bad horseâ€.

Good advice!
default_yes.gif
:
 
My husbands Uncle has shared this same information with us years ago and we have seen so much of what you say in the herd of horses we were blessed with. You describe everything so well. Thank you for taking the time to post and share your experience, you are so very lucky to be able to observe the wild horses!!!
 
Our stallions live with the mares about May-Sept. Then they are either given one for sure bred mare or another animal for companionship. Rarely are they ever alone.

Cant say I have came across a bad stallion yet, well except one we leased one year. He was just pure evil. But then again I suspect he was abused.
 
Excellent post and a really enjoyable read too. I totally agree with the concept of a young stallion needing to be socalized by a group of mares and/or older horses. For a few years when we first started with mini's we had two adult stallions each with a group of 4 - 7 mares that lived in the same 30 acre pasture with one watering hole. It was interesting to watch them rotate around the pasture with the mares to get to the water etc. They rarely fought, unless we added a new mare and then there was a very short period of adjustment and life went on. Additionally we never leave a stallion alone, as it really messes up the mind if you will. LOL Very cool oberservations, this is the type thing that keeps me coming back to forums like this. :aktion033: :aktion033: :aktion033:

:saludando:
 
I loved your post! Thanks so much for sharing it. I have saved it to read again in the future too.
default_yes.gif
:

geldings wake in the morning- think “ oh what a lovely day†go grazing singing “dumb de dumb oh happy dayâ€.

I am sorry, but I laughed SO hard at that. I can so see my gelding doing that! :new_shocked:
 
Thanks for sharing that - it's very interesting and how lucky for you to get to observe a true wild horse herd.

It's interesting to me about the weaning the babies. Last year, I retired a few of our older broodmares (all had daughters in 2005), so we didn't wean their daughters at 4-5 months as normal. Guess what - it's almost 2007 and they're still nursing them! I doubt much milk is coming out, all the horses (moms and daughters) are in excellent flesh if not a bit fat. I was actually wondering if/when they would wean, as I've had pregnant mares stop nursing foals at 9 months and deliver a healthy, full term foal.

We also had a few mares that were not bred back, that had their babies weaned, and they're nursing them again too.

As for stallions, all but one (he's new, B size and coming off an injury) of ours are kept in a bachelor herd in the off season, but we have 20 acres for them to roam on. They're not confined to a small paddock except for trimming/de-worming. There is a minimal of fighting - the mares actually act worse at feeding time! The actively breeding stallions are kept with their mares from April on. Studies have shown stallions in a bachelor herd, other than the one or two most dominant ones have about the same testosterone level as a gelding. The younger stallions (and geldings) all learn quite a bit about good manners from the older ones too.

Also meant to add - stallions (most at least) make excellent baby sitters for weanlings too. It can depend on the horse (I have mares that are horrible at this too), but in general the stallions are much more involved with the babies - playing, sharing food, and really don't discipline until the foals are 6-9 months, that is when we separate out any fillies (January 1st).
 
Last edited by a moderator:
I've always wanted to go over there and see them for myself. Where are you located?

Oh, your website link doesn't work...was wanting to go browsing and it keeps coming up 501 on me.

default_smile.png


(there is/was a nice article on Scott Creek's website about allowing stallions to run w/herds and it was very influential in my initial decision to turn my stallion out w/his mares. What a turnabout in his behavior!)

Liz M.
 
I've always wanted to go over there and see them for myself. Where are you located?

Oh, your website link doesn't work...was wanting to go browsing and it keeps coming up 501 on me.

default_smile.png


(there is/was a nice article on Scott Creek's website about allowing stallions to run w/herds and it was very influential in my initial decision to turn my stallion out w/his mares. What a turnabout in his behavior!)

Liz M.
Oh, I'm sorry about the web site link...it's not up yet I need to go and put "coming soon" Sorry me bad
default_sad.png


We're in Redmond about 2 hourse from Burns which is where the wild horse corrals are located. If you ever plan a trip to see the horses let me know. If I can get away I'll come show you the best "secret spots" to find them
default_yes.gif
:
 
Our little miniature horses also have the survival instinct of their wild cousins. Our little mare, Mundy, was attacked and killed by a black bear years ago. We had about 10 horses in the lower field, along with a foal. The herd made a circle around the filly. They were all facing out & the little foal was in the middle. (along with our pgymy goat) I was amazed when I saw this. They have not lost this natural instinct to protect their young.
 
:aktion033: [SIZE=10pt]GREAT READING ...... THANKS FOR SHARING !! [/SIZE] :aktion033:
What a fascinating post. Any possibility you'd provide "guide" service for a fee? Ohhh, what I'd give to crouch/lay down beneath a Juniper, watching horses for hours.....in complete silence. Talk about a chance of a lifetime!

Gonna copy your post and place it on a word processor document for future reading/reference. The subject of stallions running with a band of mares "in nature"..... then using the knowledge for domestic situation(s) is the most fascinating!

Again, thanks so much for sharing your passion and knowledge!

Cindy
 
I’d love to share one more story if people don’t mind. This one relates to the bond between stallions and mares that obviously goes way deeper than may of us imagine.

This is not a first hand experience but was told to me first hand by a dear and very honest friend. This person headed the Burns area BLM wild horse program and spearheaded getting one particular herd special status. There are a group of mustangs of mainly Spanish descent called the Kiger mustangs (named after the area where their HMA is). These horses were split into two groups and placed on two different HMA’s to prevent any natural disaster wiping them out. One HMA is called the Kiger and the other (20 miles away) is the Riddle HMA. Occasionally after round ups the horses are moved from one HMA to the other. One year – under great protest from our now retired friend – his favorite stallions mare band was split. He was put back on the Kiger with most of his band (he originally had about 15-20 mares !!!) and the other mares were placed on the on the far end of the HMA with different studs.

Our friend went to the area late summer/early fall where this stallion hung out and was heartbroken that his boss mare had also been removed. The family unit had been ripped apart.

Most of us would think “so what†he still has some mares and he’s only a horse….

Well…the following summer after the snows had cleared our friend went up to see his buddy the old stud and couldn’t believe what he was seeing. This stallion had jumped 3 fence lines, he had rounded up everyone of HIS missing mares one by one and had then driven them back to where his band hung out. Every one of his mares were back and not one other mare was added !!!!!

I have no reason to doubt this story as I had adopted a daughter from this stallion and his boss mare who was born on the Kiger but later adopted out from the Riddle HMA. It was when I was asking how come she came from Riddle if she was this stallions daughter that I learned about her and her dam (and the other mares) being moved. On one of our trips out not long after that we saw this mare leading her band on the Kiger. Pretty cool. Sorry if I’m boring or detracting from the subject of our mini’s. Stories like this sure make me see my little Ozy and Twoie with fresh eyes.

And for anyone wanting to see thw wild horses here in Oregon. If there is any way I can take you in I will. At the worst anyone is welcome here. You can come and see my MAGNIFICENT miniv stallion and mare
default_yes.gif
:
default_wub.png
: :bgrin :aktion033: and I'll draw you a map or two of where to go to see the wild horses.
default_smile.png
 
Last edited by a moderator:

Latest posts

Back
Top