why. why.

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In their defense I think most people take "up to date on everything" to mean vaccinations, hoof care and deworming, not anything to do with paperwork. And it's not really a lie to say the horse is registered if indeed it is registered, even if the papers have not been put into the name of the current owner. Very often it's quite possible and even quite easy to get the papers into the current name--person may have all the necessary transfers, properly signed, or even one signed, blank transfer so that the horse can be transferred directly to the next buyer--that's something I check into if I don't know the seller & know I can trust that seller to provide valid paperwork. I heard enough horror stories from others who got stung buying Morgans whose papers were not in order to have learned this even before I got into Minis!

Since paperwork is important to you and since this seems to be a common issue you've encountered while horse shopping I would suggest that you should specifically ASK the seller before you waste time going to look. It's easier to ask on the phone or via e-mail "Is the horse registered and are the papers in your name?" then to drive any distance to look at the horse and then find out that the paperwork is still in the name of someone 3 transfers back. It's also easy to check that out on line through the stud book of whichever registry.
 
I have been reading these posts/threads and can now really see both sides. My main concern is the bloodline records. I have a mare that has had 3 or 4 babies. She is nicely bred going back to Circle S Bill Baily on the top and Jandts Cheeri Deeri on the bottom. I consider myself fortunate to have bought her and have learned alot on this forum. At this time my mare only has one registered filly.....and she was sold to someone last year, and they have not transferred the papers.

I understand that life happens and 'we weren't showing she is only a pet'.....but life changes and a horse with papers may end up in a better home or situation. I have had registered and non registered all my life and they have all been loved and cared for til their deaths.

At this time I am sort of looking around for a 2nd mini.....auctions, private sale, even Craigslist. I don't care what the asking price is I would still like to know what you know about a mini you have for sale.....registered, not registered, training background, height etc....there are just as many sellers out there that will answer those questions as those that will not. I really like the idea of a seller filling out paperwork, taking pics and handling for the buyer.....or making it part of the sales agreement/pricing negotiation. So many times there is little or no communication...the seller thinks you will drive a good distance before you see a decent pic and get more information. It is a two way street....if you want to sell the horse and I know there are alot of folks that really need to downsize at least put a little effort into the sale.

I hope that I do find my mares filly some day as she is almost a carbon copy of her......great matched pair. But if I don't I will still look for a 2nd mini cause as the say you can't have just one......I did not believe that in the beginning but it is very true.....they just get into your heart. But I know that if I ever have to sell my girl her paperwork is in order and she is also double registered a and r now. Yes it took some work to get it done but nothing that I would not do again.

For every person on this forum we all have different opinions but the last couple of threads on this subject have been very good and informative.
 
I "own" many Minis that don't even live here....
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I can see that people who don't show wouldn't want to transfer. We do it for people who aren't members and don't want to join, and just have the paperwork sent to the new people. *shrugs* Not hard!

Lucy
 
Its been years since I have bred Miniatures, but at the time of sale, I supplied the photos necessary to transfer them, have the new owner fill out the paperwork, give me a check for the paperwork transfer & sent in the registration papers myself. I started doing this when I noticed that some of the people I sold horses too did not transfer them out of my name. I did not pay for the transfer fees, I helped the new owner fill out the necessary paperwork to join the registry or do the paperwork as a non member. I also registered all my foals & sold them with registration papers to make sure my mares/ stallions foals were showing up. Some breeders do not register foals & sell them making the new owner do all the registration I dont even know if you can still do it without joining, or what has changed as far as all of this in the 8 year I have been out of minis. I did sell some horses without papers. If they changed with minds & wanted papers later, they would have to pay the difference between registered & non registered, but at time of sale, I told them they had a 6 month time limit to do this. ( some got bitten by the show bug & wanted to do a few local shows) I didnt figure this out until about my second year of breeding, but it seemed to work ok. Frankly, sometimes people were a bit shocked to find out how much more it would cost them to join the registry & all this transfer fees etc involved with a sale if they were new to minis. Now if it was to another breeder, someone I knew, I didnt require this. I also bought some horses that the papers were signed over with a blank transfer slip & not dated, but the owner would be 2 sales ago.

Having learned the hard way as far as buying also, if a horse I was interested in did not have its paperwork up to date & correct so that I can simply transfer it into my name, I required the new owner to do this ( bringing perm, etc) before I bought it. I always asked to see the papers if I was interested to make sure they were correct, some sellers had no idea that horses needed to be brought perm or that if they did not have transfer slips or copies of papers that it would be a problem. I was at a auction one time when they were giving copies of registration papers & no signed transfer on horses that a lady had died & the kids had just dumped them at the auction The lady had been in ill health for years & never registered the foals, brought horses perm, & the kids had no idea where the papers were, they only found copies. People were getting great deals on what they thought were registered horses only to find out they wouldnt be able to get papers on them. Also before you buy a registered horse at some auction, make sure you see all the paperwork to make sure you are getting the correct registry you want. It could be registered with the "Pattys spotted horse registry" or "Dun horses of America" & be considered a "registered" horse.

I gave every new owner a little 99c notebook with this paperwork, shot/worming records copy of any health papers ( coggins, sonogram reports, stud certificates etc), pictures of them taken as they matured ( if they were homebred), farrier & feeding records, contact information for AMHA & AMHR, & local mini clubs & helpful information such as the address to this website, phone number to my mini farrier, & veterinarian ( we all know how hard the mini speciality ones are to find) & a bit of information as regards to their temperment, likes likes/dislikes ( carrots, sugar cubes). People loved those, especially newbies & I had a lot of repeat buyers because of the time I would spend with the owners, followup & the personal touch that alot of other people didnt offer. I provided those on pet or horses I sold for alot of money, it only costs me a few dollars.

This is kinda off subject & I will post it to the back porch, but it reminds me of something else regarding transfers. Do you know in some states if you sell a trailer or auto without making sure the new owners transfer it out of your name, you can be held responsible for tickets, or accidents as the "owner of record" on the car or trailer, even years later? It is very important that you make sure that the trailer or auto is legally transfered into the buyers name. If you are not able to go to the courthouse or wherever your state requires to transfer in person, then you can get a change of ownership form to send in notifying the licensing bureau that you have sold the auto & who to. I found this out when a car I sold was in an accident two years later. It was a MESS! I had to go through all my records to find my sales receipt to prove I had sold it from 2 years prior. I was so glad I found it or I could have been in a huge legal mess & out tens of thousands of dollars in liablity! Check with your states license bureau to find our your local laws. But in Texas, it is very important that you take care of this!

Debbie
 
If you are not a member of AMHR, it is $65 for membership, $15 to transfer and $10 stallion to gelding with photos. Not pocket change. For those that have a decent digital camera, printer and current membership to AMHR then yes, it does seem like a small bit of money to do it for $15. It is the "current adult membership required for registry work" that I remember being opposed to. Right after I purchased my boy I remember the membership going up to the $65. Are you all saying I can only pay $15 and without having a current membership to AMHR and get a horse transferred into my own name only using the transfer paper filled out by the breeder? The customer work order looks pretty clear to me on "membership required" clause but maybe I am missing something and need not have paid for the membership to AMHR to transfer my boy?

Mind this was a couple of years ago and I do have an over 50 brain,,,
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. I remember my breeder offering to help me with the transfer to save $ since she was a current member, but I thought I would try the membership and do it by myself the first time. After my one year of membership and getting the journal in the mail, I really would not choose to pay the membership fee to transfer my next mini into my own name. Looking at field of dreams post, it looks like I still would have to get my breeder to do the transfer if I don't want to join AMHR again.
 
Whitestar brought up the auction angle again--before leaving an auction with a horse, make sure the papers match the horse, including the transfer form.
This whole scenario makes me even leery of buying an AMHR bred mare at auction. Which I have done in the past. One could end up with an unregistered foal if the breeder isn't a current member. I've been lucky in the past, I guess. But maybe not so lucky in the future. I'd have to think twice about purchasing that way again.
 
This whole scenario makes me even leery of buying an AMHR bred mare at auction. Which I have done in the past. One could end up with an unregistered foal if the breeder isn't a current member. I've been lucky in the past, I guess. But maybe not so lucky in the future. I'd have to think twice about purchasing that way again.
Becky, it's not the breeder, it's the owner of the mare at time of foaling--may or may not be the same as the breeder. So, if you buy a bred mare at a sale (or anywhere) and get a signed transfer that is dated prior to date of foaling, you are the original owner and it's only your membership that is required.
I think people are using the word 'breeder' here because in many cases the foal is purchased on application from the breeder...breeder and original owner of foal being one & the same...it is the 'original owner' that must have a membership.
 
Becky, it's not the breeder, it's the owner of the mare at time of foaling--may or may not be the same as the breeder. So, if you buy a bred mare at a sale (or anywhere) and get a signed transfer that is dated prior to date of foaling, you are the original owner and it's only your membership that is required.
Ok, I must be confused.
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(which isn't surprising!) According to the other thread it says that the 'breeder' has to be a paid member in order for a foal to be registered. I would take that to mean that if you purchase a bred mare, transfer her into your name and she has a live foal, that the breeder still must be a paid member in order for the foal to be registered. Not so? I would certainly hope that's not the case, but......
 
Well, if a person must be a member to do any business with the registry, that would include filing a stallion report also. Therefore, the breeder must be a member to file the report. Without the report, the foal is unable to be registered.
 
As far as I understand it Minimor is correct with AMHR breeder is the person who OWNS THE DAM AT TIME OF FOALING not who owned the mare at time of service
 
As far as I understand it Minimor is correct with AMHR breeder is the person who OWNS THE DAM AT TIME OF FOALING not who owned the mare at time of service
Ok, I guess that's where I was confused. In other registries, the 'breeder' is the person who owns the dam at time of breeding, not the time of foaling. That clears a lot of things up for me.
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l always thought the breeder of a foal was the person who filed a stallion report and owned the mare at time of service. lf she got sold she just had a new owner but it didn't make them the breeder of the coming foal..l've bred and then right away sold mares but am still the breeder on the registration even though the owner named the foal they still didn't show up as the breeder...at least in the AMHA.
 
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l always thought the breeder of a foal was the person who filed a stallion report and owned the mare at time of service. lf she got sold she just had a new owner but it didn't make them the breeder of the coming foal..l've bred and then right away sold mares but am still the breeder on the registration even though the owner named the foal they still didn't show up as the breeder...at least in the AMHA.
That's what I thought too, but I guess in AMHR, it is the owner of the foal at the time of birth who is considered the breeder. I just checked the AMHR papers on a yearling colt I have. I bought the dam in foal and the colt was born here. I had nothing to do with the actual breeding, but, there I am listed as the breeder on his papers. My opinion is that concept should be changed in AMHR.
 
I agree with you Becky.

I didn't know that about AMHR (I've only been a member for 17 yrs LOL)

So now I know that's why I'm listed as the breeder when I'm not or why the buyer of a mare I bred before selling is listed as the foal's breeder when they're not.

I've got a headache
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Im really confused on the whole breeder thing. Did it change?? Im looking back through old papers. I bought a bred mare from Linda Rodriquez years ago. She foaled and produced Baxters Tiny Rocket Dancer (unfortunately she is now deceased) I looked up her AMHR papers and it lists Linda Rodriquez as the breeder even though I owned the dam at the time of foaling and registered the foal.

So then I looked at Baxters Just Teasin Ya. She is a daughter of a mare that I bought bred from Getitia. But on that one I am listed as the breeder.

So it must have changed??

I always thought all these years that whoever bred the mare was listed as the foals breeder
 
So the question is, did AMHR change the rule as to who the breeder is, or is somebody in the office making a mistake when issuing papers?? I think it's a slap in the face to the person(s) who actually bred a mare and stallion together and filed a stallion report, to not be listed as the breeder.
 
This did not change with AMHR.....the breeder is supposed to be the owner of the mare at the time she was bred. HOWEVER - the data base has difficulty keeping track of effective dates. I raised holy you know what with the office once because I sold a bred mare - checked the studbook - and it listed the new owner of the mare as the breeder of the resulting foal. I was LIVID!! Not because I cared that much about this one particular foal, but because it is indicative of just how poor the data quality is. Think about it.....Breeder of the Year is awarded based on Hall of Fame points awarded to horses that were bred by a particular breeder. If the data base can't get it right....who is to say that the Breeder of the Year award isn't totally mucked up????????????????????????????????????????????????
 
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Will AMHR correct the papers on a horse whose breeder is listed as somebody who isn't?

I'd be more than happy to send the papers in to AMHR on my particular colt so the actual breeder can be listed. I'd love to take the credit for breeding such a great little horse (he just went Top 10 at AMHA World
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), but feel that's unfair to the person who actually did the mating to produce him. I just checked the registration papers on every horse I own and the yearling colt is the only one that is incorrect.
 
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