When an AMHR-B measures over 38" - - then what?

[Baptism]

What happens when an AMHR - B measures over the 38" max? Are papers no good then? Can ofspring still be registered? Can a person apply to the Shetland Pony Registry?

Thanks in advance!

 

[midnight star stables]

What happens when an AMHR - B measures over the 38" max? Are papers no good then? Can ofspring still be registered? You would think....Can a person apply to the Shetland Pony Registry? No. ASPC is a BREED. Some miniatures are AMHR/ASPC. Thanks in advance!

If you have a AMHR only mini, who is over 38", then yes, it is now "unregistered". However, as long as the horse is never shown, then you can use them in your breeding program to cross with smaller to get "minis" BUT this is not really legal, although many do do it.

 

[disneyhorse]

Ethically, your 38+ inch tall pony is now not eligible for Miniature Horse papers because the papers are STRICTLY for height, not bloodlines.

Some people do keep the papers, breed on, and just be "hush hush" about it. Just depends on your outlook on life and how you view the situation.

No, you can NOT register it as an ASPC Shetland, because unlike the miniature horse, it is a BREED and can only have ASPC registered parents to get an ASPC registered foal.

It's a hot debate, but do what you will with it.

Andrea

 

[~Lisa~]

What happens when an AMHR - B measures over the 38" max?

You are SOL pretty much. Your AMHR horse becomes a grade mini however that does not mean they are useless. I personally would turn in papers but they can still be used for driving, open shows, 4-H, parades- ADS

 

[Baptism]

Thank you very much. That's what I thought. Didn't mean to insult the Shetland Pony breed but I had to ask the question in case there was some division of some sort.

Guess I've just become the owner of one heck of a beautiful black and white "grade" mare with very nice bloodlines. The honest thing will be done. There are enough dishonest ones already.

Thanks

 

[~Amanda~]

It is wonderful of you to be honest. It seems a shame though. Could you register her as a Pinto maybe?

 

[susanne]

If she is only slightly over by your measurement, I'd want to get a second opinion -- an official measurement by a steward or judge.

It can be difficult to get an accurate measurement if your stick doesn't have a level or if your ground isn't level. In addition, a horse can measure quite differently when nervous or cold. Not such a big deal with a 35" horse, but if the horse measures close to or at 38" a slight difference can mean a great deal.

I'm not in any way suggesting you push the limit, but if she is close, I'd want to be sure.

 

[Jill]

I used to own a gorgeous bay leopard mare who was really nice and correct. Only problem, she went over her AMHR papers. I ended up selling her to a home where she does pony rides and pony camp and she loves it. I'd have loved to have her as an unusual (for us) broodmare, but couldn't do it and feel "right" about the choice...

 

[wildoak]

If she's pinto you should be able to get PtHA papers on her - since it's a color based breed size does not matter.

Jan

 

[midnight star stables]

Now, doesn't anyone feel that this is wrong? Can't we do something to let AMHR bred horses have only "breeding stock" papers or something?

I just wouldn't want to see it allowed for hard shipped horses.... We'd have soo many 42" shetlands...

But you could have "over" gelding classes maybe..? Help add to where there is currently nothing.. ??

 

[~Lisa~]

While not really what it was intended for she can also qualify for the NSPR division of ASPC/AMHR

 

[ruffian]

" Now, doesn't anyone feel that this is wrong? Can't we do something to let AMHR bred horses have only "breeding stock" papers or something?

I just wouldn't want to see it allowed for hard shipped horses.... We'd have soo many 42" shetlands... wacko.gif

But you could have "over" gelding classes maybe..? Help add to where there is currently nothing.. ??"

No, I absolutely do not feel that is "Wrong"

If AMHA and AMHR are going to be "height" breeds, than we need to stick to the original rules. In your case, you will have a beautiful grade horse. If we allow 39, then why not 40. If you allow 40, why not 42? IF that's the case why have a registry or association at all?

Many of the gorgeous stallions on the AMHR sweepstakes program are 38". IMO the chances of them producing under 38 are 50% at best. And the risks involved in breeding them to a 34" or smaller mare, again IMO, are too great to try to keep the foals under 38 at maturity. If we create a "Breeding Stock only" category for these horses, isn't that only going to continue the problem of oversize horses? Is that fair to the industry?

I have 3 B horses. In EVERY case the paperwork shows nothing over 34". All are by national champion stallions. None will go over 38, but they are all out of their AMHA papers.

I also have 20 other horses that are under 34", and every foal I've had from my original herd has been under 34". That was when AMHA and AMHR were just starting, and people were being honest about heights and vigilant about keeping under size.

I was at a friends farm and noticed a really big mare. I asked "how tall is she?" and the answer was "she's not 5 yet, I don't have to measure her" ????? THIS IS THE WRONG ANSWER!!!

We need to start cracking down on people breeding horses that don't match the size on their papers. If it takes a rule that EVERY breeding horse needs to be measured by an official to keep people honest, we might have to resort to that. There are some breeds that do that, and there is no question of the quality of the horses being bred.

 

[Leeana]

Your over, your over. Period. I do not feel we should allow an "over" over division...just does not seem right to say "They must be under 38"...except.....". For sure would be agianst a class for those over horses and breeding stock as well...shouldn't your breeding stock horses represent what the standard is which is under 38".

 

[Minimor]

If AMHA and AMHR are going to be "height" breeds,

But what if they aren't going to be just height breeds any more, then what? Some people believe the Minis should become "real" breeds and--like the Shetlands for instance--keep their papers no matter what size they grow to.

people were being honest about heights and vigilant about keeping under size.

Sorry, but if people were truly being honest about heights they would have measured at the withers rather than at the last mane hair! And being vigilant about keeping under size would have been more impressive if they wouldn't have been attempting to achieve their goal by breeding dwarves in so many cases.

 

[midnight star stables]

I find your post interesting, weren't you one of the ones who felt that the miniature horse is/should be a breed?

Well how do you make a breed a breed? 1) Close the registry. 2) Allow for "out crops".

Same thing goes for AMHA.

There was a colt that I nearly bought in 2007, but bought his 1/2 brother instead. That colt is now over 38". I think it is VERY unfair that that colt is now a grade horse. He has great breeding, conformation and sold for a descent price an a weanling!

What about Paint stock?? Breeding dogs?

If I invest a lot of money in a young horse that does go over, especially if it is one of exceptional quality, I don't think I'd turn in the papers as I don't think it is right. I would never lie about a horses' height, nor try to change/force/alter it. But if I had a 2 or 3 time National Champion(ex. showing as a weanling, yearling and 2year old, etc), that ended up an honest 38.50-38.75", I'm sorry, but I would not be sending in my papers.

Please note, all my horses are well under the limits, my tallest being an honest 36"

However I feel that we need to consider adding a breeding stock availability. Too many that are over anyways and to many that become grade. I just don't see how it is fair.

But hey, JMHO.

 

[~Amanda~]

Perhaps the "Overs" could be given Breeding Papers on the basis if they can produce foals within the standards? I know that some breeds have something similar. If a mare or stallion is "borderline" acceptable, they allow them a breeding season and then inspect the foals. If the resulting foals are good quality and meet the standards, the mare or stallion is allowed to have "Breeding Papers" to produce registered offspring.

 

[midnight star stables]

Perhaps the "Overs" could be given Breeding Papers on the basis if they can produce foals within the standards? I know that some breeds have something similar. If a mare or stallion is "borderline" acceptable, they allow them a breeding season and then inspect the foals. If the resulting foals are good quality and meet the standards, the mare or stallion is allowed to have "Breeding Papers" to produce registered offspring.

The only problem with this, as we are a "height" breed, you'd have to wait 4 years

 

[muffntuf]

If a Shetland Classic, Modern Pleasure or Modern measures over 46", they are over height as well. They still are shetland, but couldn't be shown.

I second the notion that you should have someone carded (steward) measure your mini on a warm day, and right after trimming its hooves. I had a 38" mare and she was 38" truly, but on a cold day or if she was nervous, she would have her shoulders pulled up.

Otherwise there is the NSPR division.

 

[RallyZ]

I could see having a breeding division of horses that went over 38" if they were not allowed to show and their TRUE height was on their papers so that anyone buying future stock from them would not be unaware that there were taller horses in their pedigree. I really think this would be better than having all those "38 inch" horses OR the "34 inch" A size horses that are being kept on the farm and used now. At least then you would have the opportunity to NOT purchase a horse that stands a good chance of going over without you realizing it.

 

[ruffian]

"Sorry, but if people were truly being honest about heights they would have measured at the withers rather than at the last mane hair! And being vigilant about keeping under size would have been more impressive if they wouldn't have been attempting to achieve their goal by breeding dwarves in so many cases."

I also agree with this. Measure at the withers. In this case, adjust the CURRENT measurement standards to make up the difference. IMO approx 2". Should have been at the withers from the beginning.

The registries are trying to weed out the dwarfs by not allowing them to be registered. So that is going in the right direction.