Took our new mini to the indoor to see what he knows

[HavingFun]

I tried to repost this in the driving forum but I couldn't copy and paste it for some reason.


I have posted about the mini we bought for my 9
year old son who wants to drive. The gelding is 8 years old, has been driven but
not for years.

I took him to the indoor last week for my friends to see
what he knows. He ground drove wonderfully and has a very solid whoa so we were
going to see about hitching him. Well...he is TERRIFIED of the cart. Kind of
seems like maybe he has had an accident or something. I have actually noticed
the whole time we've had him that he's not to keen on things behind him. He
started freaking out as soon as he SAW the cart. He did get a bit calmer with
time but we didn't want to try hitching him and having him spaz.

He's a
good boy and really easy to work with..very willing. We found out he rides
beautifully. I bought him to drive though so I hope we can get him going again.
My friends are willing to help me and I can take him to them for
training.

As a Mom when he's spazzing about the cart I can't picture him
ever being calm enough for my son to drive but maybe it will come. The plan for
now is to keep working with him and keep my eyes open for a quieter stater
mini.

We have been leading him down the road while the kids walk a ways
behind and pull our little red radio flyer wagon. He hates it but I'm hoping it
will help him get used to having something behind him.

 

[rabbitsfizz]

I would advise you to take this whole problem over to the Driving Forum- if he has had an accident it is very unlikely that scaring him further with the kiddies cart is going to help at all, there is a good chance that he has never driven. of course, but you will get a much wider range of answers- and help- on the Driving Forum.

 

[Rhondaalaska]

They can help you there.

But you need to slow down with him and start with PVC poles and the tire drag before you ever hook up.

Let him get used to the cart by it being there still while you walk him around it and then later with someone pulling it as you walk.

Dont bring it any closer than he is comfortable with than slowly get closer. It will be awhile before you hook up.

But definatly repost this on the driving forum .

 

[HavingFun]

Thanks, I'll repost it there. We definetly aren't hitching him any time soon! My friends plan is to take him back to basics, dragging the poles, tires things like that. We don't want to hitch him to a cart until he is totally calm about the whole thing.

It's hard to explain things on here sometimes. He didn't like the kids wagon behind him and he kept an eye on it but he wasn't terrified of that like he was of the cart. He even ate carrots out of it. I actually had a hunch when we were doing it though that it wasn't a good idea so we only did it for a minute. As you said..don't want to scare him even more!

I have seen photos of him being driven. I believe he was started at Spring Valley Farm, that's where he is registered from and when I looked up the farm the man in the photos there look just like the man driving my horse in the photos I have. That and the way he ground drives so well is what makes me think he had a good foundation then an accident or something along the way.

I think maybe I'll just send him to my friends that way I don't mess him up more.

 

[JMS Miniatures]

I would advise taking him somewhere to get a better handle on this. Sounds like he had a bad accident in the cart.

What I've had great success on when it comes to hooking one up for the first time not only are they great at their ground work training both on the ground and in harness I then pony them in the cart just to get use to the look and sound of the cart right before I hook them up and then introduce them to the cart. But with yours I would introduce it to him first and what I mean introduce is to just not hook him up and go. Send him between you and the cart but first ask him to do this by sending him between you and a solid panel or fence just so he gets a concept of the lesson. Then go and do the same thing with the cart. You don't have to work him right up aginst it at first but walk closer to it each time. You want him to walk calmly thru and have his hindquarter swing around and him facing you. You want to be able to work closer to the cart but just take the time he needs. Do this on all the sides of the cart, front of the shafts, on each side, behind the cart, try backing him up between the shafts and let him relax and stand there. One you stand still and relax for at least 5 minutes and you can successfully send him between you and the cart calmy on all sides then start lounging him or move his feet away from the cart for like 10 min and let him stand by the cart to relax. Show him the cart is his best friend, thats the place where he can get some air and gain weight. Away from the cart he has to work and loose weight. I don't necessairly do this part but thats what I would try to do if I had one that had a bad accident in the cart. Then I would try and pony him to the cart if you have another driving horse.

I haven't had any accidents going thru this method and it goes well, however I haven't had one like yours. Doing what I'm telling you certaintly won't hurt him, and your not hooking him up, you just trying to show him that the cart won't hurt him, and like I said if you lounge him away from the cart and let him relax at the cart may help a lot.

 

[susanne]

Since you bought him with the idea of driving, I can see where you'd want very much still to hitch him. If it were for you or for another adult, I'd say to move go ahead but move slowly, but for your kids? Call me paranoid, but I'd have to see months, possibly years, of good, calm, bombproof driving to be confident this horse was safe for the kiddos. I would likely keep him as a riding mini and a beloved pet, but find another for your kids to drive.

I apologize if I sound negative, but I AM the designated worrier!

 

[HavingFun]

I would advise taking him somewhere to get a better handle on this. Sounds like he had a bad accident in the cart.

What I've had great success on when it comes to hooking one up for the first time not only are they great at their ground work training both on the ground and in harness I then pony them in the cart just to get use to the look and sound of the cart right before I hook them up and then introduce them to the cart. But with yours I would introduce it to him first and what I mean introduce is to just not hook him up and go. Send him between you and the cart but first ask him to do this by sending him between you and a solid panel or fence just so he gets a concept of the lesson. Then go and do the same thing with the cart. You don't have to work him right up aginst it at first but walk closer to it each time. You want him to walk calmly thru and have his hindquarter swing around and him facing you. You want to be able to work closer to the cart but just take the time he needs. Do this on all the sides of the cart, front of the shafts, on each side, behind the cart, try backing him up between the shafts and let him relax and stand there. One you stand still and relax for at least 5 minutes and you can successfully send him between you and the cart calmy on all sides then start lounging him or move his feet away from the cart for like 10 min and let him stand by the cart to relax. Show him the cart is his best friend, thats the place where he can get some air and gain weight. Away from the cart he has to work and loose weight. I don't necessairly do this part but thats what I would try to do if I had one that had a bad accident in the cart. Then I would try and pony him to the cart if you have another driving horse.

I haven't had any accidents going thru this method and it goes well, however I haven't had one like yours. Doing what I'm telling you certaintly won't hurt him, and your not hooking him up, you just trying to show him that the cart won't hurt him, and like I said if you lounge him away from the cart and let him relax at the cart may help a lot.

Thank you JMS Miniatures, I know exactly what you are talking about! Thank you for the video too. I actually used this method to get my full size mare to load onto the trailer.

I actually have the Clinton Anderson fundamentals videos and am planning on going through them with Oreo this summer. We have started but haven't gotten past round penning so far.

He's okay with the cart until he's about 3 feet from it, that's when he starts getting nervous.

 

[HavingFun]

That is kind of my plan Susanne. I am currently keeping my eyes open for a quiet beginner driving mini while still working with Oreo.

Since you bought him with the idea of driving, I can see where you'd want very much still to hitch him. If it were for you or for another adult, I'd say to move go ahead but move slowly, but for your kids? Call me paranoid, but I'd have to see months, possibly years, of good, calm, bombproof driving to be confident this horse was safe for the kiddos. I would likely keep him as a riding mini and a beloved pet, but find another for your kids to drive.

I apologize if I sound negative, but I AM the designated worrier!

 

[paintponylvr]

I wrote a pretty detailed reply to another poster's question about some things that can be done... but I haven't been able to find it. I'll keep looking - it had a lot of detail and pictures. It did include having a person play "horsey" and pull the cart around a pony or horse to accustom him to the vehicle. IF scared of the vehicle, we had them "chase" it - until they get over the fear... YES, this follows the Clinton Anderson Fundamentals program. Yes, it works but it also takes time and if this horse was in a serious accident it may take a VERY long time for him to come back. If he had that good foundation you described, you will eventually break thru the more recent problem - hopefully. Some may not be able to. Have you contacted the farm that you think started him? That may be the way to go - and having their assistance in "getting him back" can only help in your path to return him to driving.

Also, if you scroll back thru the forum, you'll find various training posts that willhelp you - one where a large group of us were tracking the training of the horses we were each working with at the time. Some of us also had pictures.

Welcome to the Driving Forum!!

 

[paintponylvr]

Also, sometimes, just because he was hitched and driving doesn't mean he was hitched to a variety of carts or carriages. Just changes in your harness may cause him concern...

I have one mare that literally HATES to be hooked to a metal EZ entry cart, but does GREAT when hitched to light, wooden jogging cart. Different sounds, different pull. She's even better hooked as a pair or as a 3 abreast hitch - where she is working with another pasturemate rather than by herself.

 

[paintponylvr]

Found my previous post - http://www.miniaturehorsetalk.com/index.php?showtopic=132171&page=1 Mine is post # 10 and I think several after that as well.

Also, how old/big are the kids you bought this horse for? While it may take a while to get him to the point of being driven again, you could enlist their help with him so he gets used to them and they stay interested. Who knows - you may have a little trainer on your hands!

 

[Marsha Cassada]

Something to try might be putting the cart near him while he is groomed or ground worked. Pretend like it's just part of the landscape. Don't pay any attention to him when you move it around. Don't even talk to him while you are moving it. Act as though it is none of his business. When he begins to see it as non threatening he might relax about it. He is a prey animal, and once he knows it is not "after" him, he might come around.

I sold a driving horse a few years ago. The inexperienced couple who bought him were amazed when they came to look at him that I actually let them drive the horse. I was the first person whose horse they queried that did that. The other owners said the hrose could drive, but didn't have a cart, harness, etc etc... Buyer beware of sellers who say they have a trained driving horse.

 

[JMS Miniatures]

Thank you JMS Miniatures, I know exactly what you are talking about! Thank you for the video too. I actually used this method to get my full size mare to load onto the trailer.

I actually have the Clinton Anderson fundamentals videos and am planning on going through them with Oreo this summer. We have started but haven't gotten past round penning so far.

He's okay with the cart until he's about 3 feet from it, that's when he starts getting nervous.

That's awesome! His method is basiclly my training program. I've taught 4 horses that I started training to drive with this method and just waiting too hook up the 5th one til our snow is gone. I taught the fundamentals first, then did some ground driving and basiclly what I described to you I pony them with the cart and then do the sending exercise with the cart and we hook up, no muss no fuss.

I'm not sure if you ever saw the NWC DVD of the Old Guard? They use horses and cart horses to carry the caskets of soliders to grave sites. So these horses have to be well behaved for something like that. They had one that was pretty disrespectful and fearful of the cart. He had kicked at it and didn't want to go near it. Basiclly Clinton did exactly what I told you and by the end of the lesson that horse was dragging the handler back to the cart, he craved it. Something I would for sure look into and right now its on ebay for $.99. Good Luck!

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Clinton-Andersons-Clinton-Helps-The-Old-Guard-/300868514682?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item460d29337a

 

[HavingFun]

Found my previous post - http://www.miniaturehorsetalk.com/index.php?showtopic=132171&page=1 Mine is post # 10 and I think several after that as well.

Also, how old/big are the kids you bought this horse for? While it may take a while to get him to the point of being driven again, you could enlist their help with him so he gets used to them and they stay interested. Who knows - you may have a little trainer on your hands!

Thank you, so much great info! I really appreciate everyones help.

I looked back at the photos I have of him driving and he is hitched to a metal ez entry cart just like the ones my friends have so I don't think that's the problem.

My kids are 13, 12, 9 (almost 10) and 6. My 9 year old son is the one who is REALLY interested in driving.

 

[HavingFun]

Something to try might be putting the cart near him while he is groomed or ground worked. Pretend like it's just part of the landscape. Don't pay any attention to him when you move it around. Don't even talk to him while you are moving it. Act as though it is none of his business. When he begins to see it as non threatening he might relax about it. He is a prey animal, and once he knows it is not "after" him, he might come around.

I sold a driving horse a few years ago. The inexperienced couple who bought him were amazed when they came to look at him that I actually let them drive the horse. I was the first person whose horse they queried that did that. The other owners said the hrose could drive, but didn't have a cart, harness, etc etc... Buyer beware of sellers who say they have a trained driving horse.

I will work on this, thank you. I think I'm going to order a cart today...we don't even have one here.

I keep finding minis that "were" driven. I have yet to find one around here who is actually driving right now. The ads all say things like "previous owner used to drive" "haven't driven in years" and more of the same. That is why I ended up taking a chance on this guy..he at least has a nice personality and was handled by kids. He is also the only one where I actually had pictures of him driving. There are pictures in an indoor, in an outside arena, and on the road..both fall and summer. However they are from 2007 and 2008...

 

[HavingFun]

That's awesome! His method is basiclly my training program. I've taught 4 horses that I started training to drive with this method and just waiting too hook up the 5th one til our snow is gone. I taught the fundamentals first, then did some ground driving and basiclly what I described to you I pony them with the cart and then do the sending exercise with the cart and we hook up, no muss no fuss.

I'm not sure if you ever saw the NWC DVD of the Old Guard? They use horses and cart horses to carry the caskets of soliders to grave sites. So these horses have to be well behaved for something like that. They had one that was pretty disrespectful and fearful of the cart. He had kicked at it and didn't want to go near it. Basiclly Clinton did exactly what I told you and by the end of the lesson that horse was dragging the handler back to the cart, he craved it. Something I would for sure look into and right now its on ebay for $.99. Good Luck!

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Clinton-Andersons-Clinton-Helps-The-Old-Guard-/300868514682?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item460d29337a

Thank you, I went and bid on this video. I have been a member of NWC for a while but I think joined after this date.

My plan with him at this point is to keep working with him and keep my eyes open for a more experienced driving mini for the kids. I had planned on sometime having 2 anyway.

 

[Rhondaalaska]

My mare was driven when she was three or four and then left in a pasture for 8 years. We had to go slow as well because she was afraid of everything at first.

Just take your time with him and build your bond . That is where your son can help.

We worked on making the cart not a scary thing for my mare before we hooked her up.

Now she doesn't care when it is dropped be hind her or beside her

. Because that was part of what we worked on once she wasnt as afraid of it anymore.

Take your time and ground drive a lot and when he feels comfortable with the cart staying still

Have one of the kids pull it as you ground drive home so he hears it moving.

Eventually have them pull it behind, beside, ( both sides) and in front at what ever distance he is comfortable at.

Getting closer as he lets you.

After my mare was good with this

I banged on the cart at a far distance and did all this again.

I did this so she wouldn't be afraid of the noises.

Build your bond and it will help you a lot.

I am still learning myself , lol

This is only what I have done with my mare who was scared of her cart at first.

 

[rabbitsfizz]

I have to say you were really, really lucky- of course your common sense was useful as well!!

I would not buy a driving/riding horse for kids without seeing it and driving it myself, it is just too risky I am afraid, you need a really good trial when it is a child's life you are potentially dicing with.

 

[HavingFun]

I have to say you were really, really lucky- of course your common sense was useful as well!!

I would not buy a driving/riding horse for kids without seeing it and driving it myself, it is just too risky I am afraid, you need a really good trial when it is a child's life you are potentially dicing with.

Messed this up when I edited..reply is in post below.

 

[HavingFun]

Oh there is no way I would have just bought him and put my kids in the cart. I had planned anyway on leaving him with my friends for a month to have him evaluated before I let him drive with the kids in the cart. That was if he seemed to be a quiet kids mini but I wanted someone to test him. After seeing his reaction and handling him...he just has a bit to much spunk for me to feel comfortable for a long time. Like..my friends work with him and I drive him for a long time first.

I have horse experience with larger horses and honestly the minis and driving make me a lot more nervous. At least riding I have the one rein stop! When we bought our mares (I bought them from the friends I that are helping me with the mini). I boarded them there for a month first and the kids took lessons twice a week with their own horses. That was a wonderful way to do it.

Also..my son is going to be taking driving lessons and of course he would never be driving alone.