Spin-Off Westminister

[willowoodstables]

Now maybe the horse/mini/pony judges out there should take a page out of Mr. Terrier (Mr. Green's) book. He dismissed 2 dogs (Airdale (sp) and Cairn Terrier's) due to conflict of interest with their handlers.

If the handler won't bow out or hand over the dog to someone else, than kudos to the judge for removing them. Much more fair for handlers, however a true shame for the dogs. PS I have Cairns and was upset not to see him show, quite a nice looking dog!

Kim

 

[Celtic Hill Farm]

i'm confused.

 

[LindaL]

I agreed with his decision as well, but can't understand why the handlers didn't hand their dogs off.....what a shame for the dogs!!

 

[uwharrie]

That must be a first for The Garden. Will be interested to see how it pans out. ( who were the handlers?)

The handlers were well aware going into the show who the judges would be.

The rule with the AKC is you can show 6 months after any "business" with a judge. But most folks know its just plain bad sport to show to a judge that you have had exensive dealing with no matter the time frame. ( not that it does not happen)

 

[hahler]

I agree with the judge but......

what i dont agree with is that the dogs were disqualified

How would YOU feel if your mini was kicked out of nationals or worlds because of that?

If i was the owner i would have done my own homework on this and chosen a different trainer/handler

IMHO anyway

dawn

 

[sfmini]

Of course we don't know the whole story, but based on the tiny bit of info we do have right now, I have to say if I was the owner of those dogs I would be furious. It costs a lot of money to get a dog to that show and for the handler to throw it away like that is unforgivable. They should have arranged for different handlers to take those dogs in to the group. Once they have been excused, it would be too late to hand the dogs off, damage was done as the handlers were associated with those dogs.

I have a friend who is an AKC judge and I will not enter dogs under her, it is not like we are close friends, and under the rules it would be legal to show under her, but I would never do it. I told her that and she thanked me.

 

[Reble]

I do not know the whole story, but did watch last night and was shocked.

We did go to a miniature show one year, and the Judge did sell horses to a certain person and not sure the time period but first, first, & first. and the stallion was showing more than he should of.

( you get the drift ) OK maybe he missed it.

So glad to see their are good Judges, I am impressed.

 

[sfmini]

According to a forum on the Westminster.org site, the airldale handler used to work for Peter, and he and the cairn handler had leased Peter's kennel. What a pair of idiots, I can just imagine how angry the owners were, not to mention the other dogs in the breeds who were denied representation in the group.

Good for Peter Green, but you know there would have been much anger had he judged those dogs because I am sure someone would have called him on it.

 

[anoki]

I was shocked at first...then VERY impressed with that judge! I'd show under him any day (even if he didn't like my dogs

)

The only thing I can say about the handlers side of it, aside from the fact that they were morons to attempt to show under that judge, *they* are the ones being paid to handle *that* particular dog. You don't know when these associations were....perhaps longer than the 6 months ago? So maybe the handler tried to pull it....after all *if* they won (or were placed) think of the extra $$$$ they would be able to rake in. I'm not saying they were right in trying it, I think they are both idiots...did they talk to the owners about it? Did the owners even know about it (though if they were terrier people, I don't know how they couldn't)? If I owned those dogs, they wouldn't be with those handlers anymore!

But I think that judge really made a GOOD statement!

I was at a show this past summer, where a pro handler wouldn't show the cardigans he had on a certain day because there was a conflict of interest with that judge....but it didn't seem to matter with the other breeds he was showing. I didn't get that, except he knew I would find out about it because of some people I knew, and ohhhh, that wouldn't be pretty!

My girls did pretty well that day too!

I forgot to say, after watching the video of the Cardigan breed ring, I was a bit disappointed with the choice.....

~kathryn

 

[gimp]

I was shocked at first...then VERY impressed with that judge! I'd show under him any day
But I think that judge really made a GOOD statement!

I forgot to say, after watching the video of the Cardigan breed ring, I was a bit disappointed with the choice.....

~kathryn

In a show this big it is hard to believe that any one thought they could pull a fast one, but that sure seems the case. I am hoping that we get to learn more about this and what happens with those handlers. There is really no way it could have slipped by. I have the utmost of respect for the judge.

(That cardigan didn't stand a chance for a group win...even my poor eye couldn't believe who was picked.

)

 

[funnybunny]

No, the handlers were not trying to pull a fast one.

They are good friends/former business partners etc. with Peter Green. They've handled those dogs just about all year.

The owners and handlers knew full well that Peter Green was judging the Group at Westminster. They showed at Westminster to try to win the Breed. They knew it would be a conflict if they were in the Group. They did win their respected Breeds. That is a special accomplishment. They knew they could not compete in the Group, but their breed could be "recognized" as being BOB in the Group.

In order to have their dogs seen on TV as having won BOB and given that recognition, they bought the dogs into the Group as an honor of winning their breed. They all knew they would be excused in this instance.

Trust me, everybody was well informed of what would happen if they won BOB.

There is a whole lot of "funny business" in showing dogs, but this case was not one of them.

 

[coopermini]

I have to say if the owners and handlers knew what would happen why on earth would they go in knowing they would get booted. They could have easlily found other handlers for those two dogs. If they wanted recognition for the breeds they surely could have done much better than that. They did get thier 15 seconds of fame but what idiots!

 

[funnybunny]

[SIZE=8pt]I have to say if the owners and handlers knew what would happen why on earth would they go in knowing they would get booted. Wouldn't you have wanted your dog/horse/whatever to have had the honor to have won the Breed at Westminster and to have been televised worldwide? [/SIZE]

They could have easlily found other handlers for those two dogs. No, most dog owners are loyal to their handlers and since the handler has worked with the dog all year, it would not be a good thing to put someone on the dog that didn't have that relationship. Plus, I'm sure Peter knows those dogs by sight and it would still be a conflict for anyone to have shown those particula dogs in the ring. Poor ethics. Poor sportsmanship.

If they wanted recognition for the breeds they surely could have done much better than that. They did get thier 15 seconds of fame but what idiots! Hey, idiots, I guess so. We are mini-idiots and dog-idiots. Idiots and their money are soon parted when showing animals.

 

[anoki]

No, the handlers were not trying to pull a fast one.
They are good friends/former business partners etc. with Peter Green. They've handled those dogs just about all year.

The owners and handlers knew full well that Peter Green was judging the Group at Westminster. They showed at Westminster to try to win the Breed. They knew it would be a conflict if they were in the Group. They did win their respected Breeds. That is a special accomplishment. They knew they could not compete in the Group, but their breed could be "recognized" as being BOB in the Group.

In order to have their dogs seen on TV as having won BOB and given that recognition, they bought the dogs into the Group as an honor of winning their breed. They all knew they would be excused in this instance.

Trust me, everybody was well informed of what would happen if they won BOB.

There is a whole lot of "funny business" in showing dogs, but this case was not one of them.

Thank you for posting that! I was hoping that those were the reasons why it was done that way!

I know the reasons why they didn't simply get another handler for the dog and fully understand it!

~kathryn

 

[lilstars]

at the beginning when peter excused ernesto(handler airedale) the narrator for the show said "the handler was aware of this conflict but they were asked to bring the dog in for its example, (due to the t.v. etc) made sense to me i agree with funnybunny everyone knew the situation....

 

[Boinky]

similar things happen in the mini world all the time from height measuring to conflicts with ammy status and judging.. sometimes it slides sometimes you get caught!! it's not only in dogs. I have no clue about this instance..but i've found in life there are those that have to cheat at everything. A win is no good unless it's won illegally it seems!

 

[minimomNC]

Even if the dogs were handed off to other handlers, they would still be from the same kennel, so same conflict. Also with all of the dogs in the breed ring, they were taking a chance to win the honor of BOB. Thank you funnybunny for information as to what really happened. Nice to see at least one association does follow its own rules.

 

[ruffian]

No, the handlers were not trying to pull a fast one.
They are good friends/former business partners etc. with Peter Green. They've handled those dogs just about all year.

The owners and handlers knew full well that Peter Green was judging the Group at Westminster. They showed at Westminster to try to win the Breed. They knew it would be a conflict if they were in the Group. They did win their respected Breeds. That is a special accomplishment. They knew they could not compete in the Group, but their breed could be "recognized" as being BOB in the Group.

In order to have their dogs seen on TV as having won BOB and given that recognition, they bought the dogs into the Group as an honor of winning their breed. They all knew they would be excused in this instance.

Trust me, everybody was well informed of what would happen if they won BOB.

There is a whole lot of "funny business" in showing dogs, but this case was not one of them.

I'm sorry, but that's just silly. Why spend all that time and money to be "excused" from Group? They knew for 2 years that this guy was judging group, and they couldn't find anybody else to show the dogs? Yes they got their 15 seconds of fame for winning BOB, but how much better to win group and then BOS? This explanation doesn't make sense to me, and if it were my dog I would be furious - especially after winning breed.

Plus it meant that their Breed was no longer being "Recognized" in Group - their breed wasn't there!

What would have happened if the handler had 2 dogs in the Group? He just wouldn't show one of them or hand one off to someone else?

Kudos to the judge for playing by the rules!!

 

[uwharrie]

actually they were not breaking any "written" rules. The rules state no "business" with a judge 6 months prior.

I really dont understand why the handlers did not "hand off" the dogs to another handler. ( it happens all the time) As long as the owners had not been clients of Peter, there would have been no conflict. I still suspect the handlers thought they could get by with it. But who knows. I certainly would NOT have wanted my dog to win the breed only to get excused from the group. If it were me and I knew it would happen the dog would not have shown in the group. no matter what the TV folks wanted.

And yes I have had dogs shown at the Garden, A few years back one of them won the breed and got a Group 4 ( I think only the 4th IG to place in the group there)

 

[sfmini]

Imagine how the owners of the Best Of Opposite Sex dogs felt.

I know I would have felt terrible, and a little cheated.

I do kind of have mixed feelings on the entire thing, I understand, but I don't.

As for handing off the dogs, those handlers usually are handing off to one of their employees so the dog knows who is handling it. In the greater picture, this is one dog show in a long line of dog shows in a dog's career, and at this one, especially, winning breed is such a huge honor as you are showing against the best of the best. The top dogs in each breed are invited, the remaining are finished champions who's owners luckily got their entries in. From what I understand, in the more popular breeds, you have to hire couriers to be on the spot hand delivering entries as they are first come first served.

I do admire Peter Green immensely for holding himself to such a high standard, there just isn't enough of that any more.

I do remember the year I got my invitation to show Frasier at that show as he had finished his championship that year. That alone was pretty exciting.