Selling my stallion, having second thoughts

[Bealsbarnyard]

I have 2 stallions and because of the economy I've been selling down alot and do not need 2 boys. I plan on keeping only 2 mares and will breed them both to the same stallion next year. Both boys are AMHA/AMHR, the stallion I intend to keep is already permanent AMHA and AMHR the stallion I want to sell is permanent AMHR but is just coming 4 next spring so will not be able to go permanent AMHA for another year. If I sell my boy and the new owners do not bring him permanent at 5 I will have several babies I will not be able to bring permanent when the time comes. I know most people would go ahead with all paperwork but I have come across so many that do not for one reason or another keep papers current especially when it cost so much to bring an "A" stallion permanent, Do I take the risk? What would you do, Keep him until he's 5 and do the paperwork yourself or sell him now?

Kathy

UPDATE ON PAGE #3 CALLED AMHA TODAY!

 

[Annabellarose]

Ack! What a cluster-you know what. I guess what you have to do is weigh the "what ifs". I do not envy you in this. If you sell the stallion now and can't process the paperwork on your foals, is it worth not being able to process the paperwork on your foals for the money that you will get out of him? If you don't sell the stallion now and can process the paperwork on your foals, is it worth the expense and work of keeping/having kept him? I guess that's what you have to decide.

 

[esty]

As long as your foals are registered before your stallion needs to be perm, there is no reason why they cant be brought perm when thier time comes.

 

[Reble]

I do believe if they do not change his transfer papers, & is still in your name, you can pay for his permanent papers?

If they do transfer him, cannot see why they would not also put him permant.

Call amha and see what they have to say.

See if he sells first, never know who the new owners might be?

You can pick and choose who buys him.

 

[Bealsbarnyard]

My foals do have their AMHA papers and he is bred to 3 mares for 2009 foals but I was under the impression that if the mare and or stallion was not brought permanent then the resulting foals could not be brought permanent or is it they can not be registered? I do not have the AMHA rule book, does anyone know?

Reble- didn't think of that I will call AMHA-thanks

 

[attwoode]

Can't you add this into the sales contract? You could have a condition that his registration will be maintained current and permanent by a stated date. Although difficult to enforce, if there is enough of a penalty it might make the buyer be sure to get it done.

 

[esty]

Can't you add this into the sales contract? You could have a condition that his registration will be maintained current and permanent by a stated date. Although difficult to enforce, if there is enough of a penalty it might make the buyer be sure to get it done.

as long as you have registered them, they then can be brought perm. They need to have thier papers before the stallion turns 5.

 

[Bealsbarnyard]

esty- Thank you that makes me feel a lot better about selling my boy. I have the 3 mares due in 2009 and I always get my paperwork done right away. I do not plan on using him in 2009 anyway so any foals of his that I have bred will have their papers before he's 5.

 

[Katiean]

It doesn't cost that much more to have 4 horses then 3. I would keep him even though I didn't "need" him. I mean do any of us really NEED our horses? Ok, we do. But what you are saying is you can't use him. How would you use him if he were a gelding? I would keep him.

 

[attwoode]

Sounds like you will be ok if all foals are registered before he turns 5. I don't think there will be any problem with transferring or making his foals permanant once they are registered.

 

[stormy]

Unless you have complete confidence in the buyer DON"T DO IT!! I have a very handsome boy here, hoped to use as a stud, but i was unable to get his permanent papers for A as his sire was never made permanent, and yes he did have his temporary papers before his sire reached 5 yrs of age. So now this beautiful boy is an AMHR only gelding.

 

[esty]

I may be wrong, correct me if i am but I have never had that happen. What if your stallion were to die before coming perm, does that then mean none of his foals would be able to be turned perm?

 

[Katiean]

I may not be well informed. But, Why if when the foal was conceved the stud was registered and did not lose his papers because he was over size he just was not brought perm, why would the foal not beable to be brought perm on his own merrit?I mean they have hardshipping and you know this foals parentagewhy should the foal owner have to pay any extra because someone else didn't take care of their business. To me it is like saying "Joe Shmoe didn't change the horse into his name so everything that horse has produced is no longer registered". It makes no sence and is bad business for the registery.

 

[Annabellarose]

Oh boy, I will be watching this thread closely. I am new to the breed and I have a 6 month old colt and 2 pregnant mares that I bought at a sale recently and I don't know anything about the colt's sire's paperwork (other than I do know that he is registered and that his DNA is on file, but I don't know if he is permanent) and I don't know anything at all about the other sires/stallions. Ack!

 

[Songcatcher]

I may not be well informed. But, Why if when the foal was conceved the stud was registered and did not lose his papers because he was over size he just was not brought perm, why would the foal not beable to be brought perm on his own merrit?I mean they have hardshipping and you know this foals parentagewhy should the foal owner have to pay any extra because someone else didn't take care of their business. To me it is like saying "Joe Shmoe didn't change the horse into his name so everything that horse has produced is no longer registered". It makes no sence and is bad business for the registery.

First of all, a foal will not be denied permanent status simply because the sire was not brought permanent. If a horse is denied permanent status, there is some other reason than its parents not being brought permanent. I know there are some who are very bitter and feel their horse was denied permanent status because the sire/dam was not brought permanent, but I can go through the Studbook and find a number of horses who are permanent that their parents were not.

Now, if the sire is not brought permanent before the foal is registered, how is the registry to know that he did not go oversize and the owner failed to report it? Not many people are going to go to the trouble to turn in papers on an oversize horse. They simply will not take it permanent.

There are a lot of people breeding here who simply do not know the rules.

 

[Annabellarose]

There are a lot of people breeding here who simply do not know the rules.

I just wanted to clarify that I am new to Miniature Horses and that I am not a breeder or breeding. I just happened to buy 2 pregnant mares (at a sale) and I actually wish that neither of them were bred as I don't feel that one of them should have ever been bred due to her overall lack of quality and that the other is bred to a poor-quality stallion, in my opinion. I will still register the foals as I believe that it is important for a horse to have an identity and a pedigree (we can use them as examples of how not to breed in the future).

 

[Songcatcher]

There are a lot of people breeding here who simply do not know the rules.

I just wanted to clarify that I am new to Miniature Horses and that I am not a breeder or breeding. I just happened to buy 2 pregnant mares (at a sale) and I actually wish that neither of them were bred as I don't feel that one of them should have ever been bred due to her overall lack of quality and that the other is bred to a poor-quality stallion, in my opinion. I will still register the foals as I believe that it is important for a horse to have an identity and a pedigree (we can use them as examples of how not to breed in the future).

My comment was a generalized statement and not meant to be pointing at any one individual. You have reinforced my point regarding the mares you bought bred. It was not my intention to offend anyone, but to point out that lots of breeding is going on by people who should not. The registering of these inferior animals perpetuates the problem (IMO) because somewhere down the line, someone will buy it and say, "I have a registered horse. I think I'll breed."

 

[Bealsbarnyard]

Thank you all for your input, I have no problem keeping my guy until he's 5 if there is any chance of a problem with his foals. I guess the best thing is to call AMHA to be 100% sure.

Songcatcher- I agree I cannot see how a foal that is registered can be denied permanent status just because it's parents were not brought permanent but I'm not familiar with all the AMHA rules on this.

 

[stormy]

All I can tell you is when I went to permanent register my stud at 5, I already had temp papers, DNA, everything, I was told by the registry that he could not be permanent registered as his sire had not been brought permanent. This foal was out of a mare I bought bred. He is very handsome, 32" tall and even my vet though I was crazy to geld him but without papers...which the registry did not return, I could not use him as a stallion.

 

[Maple Hollow Farm]

You say you want to sell him because of the economy and there are lots of people saying that too. The only thing is if it is a difference of only one horse then it isn't too much to keep him. You are more likely to sell him for more reasonable money if you hold on to him. The market can't get too much worse than it is now and I believe that it will get better in the next couple of years. I would keep him until he is five and hopefully the market will get better by then too. As for not using him, you could just show him or if he is of good quality then offer him at stud for others to use if you want to concentrate on only breeding your mares to a different stallion.