Predator Proofing - What Do You Do?

[Bunnylady]

Last night, I heard a sound. It was a sound I had never heard before. Something was moving in the woods behind the house, and it cried out as it went. The cries were about a second long, somewhat high-pitched, and repeated every few seconds. The cries were hoarse, rather like a crow's ca-a-w-w, but a little higher and longer. As I stood out there on the porch, I heard the cries answered by another voice, faintly distant in the cool night air. I shivered, not just from the cold, and gladly returned to the light and warmth of my kitchen!

Now, I know we have both red and grey foxes around here. I have lost many chickens and ducks to them. I have taken measures to keep them out, but every once in a while, my defenses get breached, and another massacre takes place. I've heard foxes bark, and they didn't sound anything like this. I've seen enough nature programs to know the yip-and-yodel of a coyote, and it didn't sound like that either. I hear that the coyotes we have here in the eastern part of the country are likely crossed with wolves and/or dogs, so it would follow that their voices would be different. Does that sound like a coyote to you?

These calls are longer, but similar

Illinois howl

At any rate, it sounds like a bigger problem than the foxes and bobcats that I've had to deal with in the past. This thing, whatever it is (or things, there are apparently at least two of them) sounds big enough to be a threat to my goats and minis, too. While he's in town today, my husband is going to buy a fence charger with more zap than the one we've been using, it will be used to beef up the wire that runs outside the fence to keep the foxes from digging in. I'll probably put a loop around the rabbitry as well, I've seen what dogs can do in there, and it isn't pretty. Any other suggestions? What do you do to keep the little ones safe?

 

[SSMFarm]

I am in SC and have heard the same cries that you speak of. I have donkeys. Not miniatures, regular size donkeys. I could not sleep at night if my donkeys were not in the pastures. I have all jennys with my minis. I keep my jack in the pasture with the "big" horses. The donkeys have killed more snakes than I care to count. They are absolutely wonderful, loving animals. When foals are introduced to the pasture, the donkeys all take their turn smelling of him/her. It is like they are saying Welcome and don't you worry I won't let anything hurt you. Dogs...don't worry about those. I have told my few neighbors that if their dogs enter the pastures they will not come out alive. I had a family who visited the farm and they were fine with the mom and kids petting the horses but the dad had a horse and was trying to lead it out of the gate and I had to take the lead as the donkeys lined up in front of the gate and wouldn't let him leave with the horse. I would bet a whole lot that if someone unknown came into my pasture especially a male and tried to "steal" a horse he would have a job dealing with the donkeys. I also had a young buck to jump the fence and my donkey better known as "Granny" was on him and pawing him before I could get in the gate. He came very close to not making it out. She grunted and snorted the entire time I was getting him out of the pasture. The donkeys know the horses. They know who/what is allowed in the pastures. To me they are priceless! They are also very very affectionate towards those that feed them LOL. They meet me at the gates to get their big ol ears rubbed on. If you don't have a guard animal consider a donkey. I know some folks use llamas but I know NOTHING about those.

 

[JWC sr.]

Sounds to me like you heard coyotes hunting, they do not howl like you hear on the TV when they are hunting. They yip, grunt and mutter if that makes any sense. It is is exactly what you describe as they stay in contact with each other and move thru the underbrush.

With that said we use a combination of Jennies and guard dogs as our problem here is bob cats, the occasioanl cougar and lots of coyotes. The dogs are Anatolians/Pyranees and do a good job. They are awesome by themselves removing anything on the property that does not live here including neighbors stray dogs, skunks, coyotes etc. etc. But with the aid of the jennies they form a really double layer of protection that so far has not been breeched.

Good Luck

 

[Magic]

First we installed five foot high woven mesh fence around the entire perimeter, with mesh gates. That helps keep out smaller potential predators, like most dogs. Then we got first one, then another Livestock Guardian Dog. One is an Anatolian Shepherd and the other is an Anatolian Shepherd/Great Pyrenees mix. The dogs were raised with the horses and they hang out with them, are affectionate to them, and are "on guard" at all times, but especially at night. When dogs come around, my LGD's are right there to warn them off, and there is no doubt that if the dogs tried to dig under or go over the fence my LGD's would tear them apart. There are also a LOT of mountain lions here, and we are just half a mile or so from Wilderness-Protected mountains, but no cougar in its right mind would try to take on two large LGD's in order to get a meal.

Before we moved here 3 1/2 years ago I was very worried about the safety of my horses, but our LGD's are a perfect deterrent and protection.

Did you know that there is a program operating in Africa where Anatolian Shepherd Dogs are being donated to flock-keepers to protect their flocks from Cheetahs and Leopards? In this way, the flock-keepers don't have losses, and they then do not kill the Cheetahs and Leopards. Win/Win!

 

[TheCaseFamily00]

If your chickens are loose you might want to put them up.The chickens will possibly draw the coyotes in. I had a coyote in my minis lot a couple months ago,I was mowing very close by,i'm sure he was after my chickens. I haven't seen the coyote since I put the chickens up.It was very creepy to has him care so little that I was there,he was evidently very hungry.

 

[Gini]

Sounds like the coyote's we have on our acreage hunting.... It is an erie sound!

 

[mdegner]

Though we don't live in your part of the country, we've had both llamas and a donkey (jennie). There are plenty of coyotes here and we've found dead predators in the pasture. Jennie would take off after anything that didn't belong in the pasture including dogs, cats, etc. Never had a horse attacked by anything.....

 

[Shari]

I live in an area with a very active and aggressive predator base, cougar, bobcat, bear, packs of coyotes, few wolves and so on.

Just to let you know.. my B sized Jenny was Attack by a Bobcat last year.. ripped open her face and left claw marks on her flanks. Can barely see where the stitches were on her face thank goodness.Is the reason we put the Night pasture Fence up.

So please don't assume your Donkey or Llama will keep a hungry predator at bay. What will happen,, is that they will be the predators first meal. Can tell you a number of folks where their "Guard" donkey was attacked and eaten by Cougar or Bears.

Best and first defence is a good fence.

This is our night pasture fencing. Its a Combo fence and I feel it works best against a lot of different kind of predators. The Hot wire itself is the most heavy duty on the market and the charger we use is rated for Predators such as cougar.

The top of the caps is 8' tall and in the sloping areas make the fence about a foot taller than that.

Gates tend to be a weak link so here is what we do. The whole 2acre night pasture fenced like this cost us $2,500... there abouts. Well worth the peace of mind.

My animals are would be fine with just one line of Electric tape but this fence is not so much to keep my animals in, than to keep the predators out.

Radios, noise and lights don't do a thing to keep predators at bay around here.

I originally had Maggie and Theia in a predator safe giant stall (20' by 18')at night but Maggie really stresses in stalls no matter how big. They are much happier in the night pasture.

Our poultry is kept in at night because not only do I have the above issues but skunks, possums, Racoons and so on at night. They have a concret floor..easier to keep clean than one would think and the inside of the hen house is totally lined with heavy duty 1/2" by 1/2" metal hardware cloth, which also keeps, mice, rats and so on out of their hen house at night.

Predators come after livestock because it is easier to catch. If you were hungry and had a choice of hunting your normal pray which could possibly hurt you and make you travel miles to catch it or would you go to fast food like Burger King(your livestock)... simple, fast, contained in a small place and very rarely any danger to yourself? Animals like people, tend to like the easy way of doing things.

 

[osu_barrelracer]

We are getting a very brave and growing number of coyotes out here. The dogs sure let us know when their around, but they will come right up to the house. We had a pack of them get a baby lama a few days ago, since then, I have been on a coyote hunting spree. We are one by one fixing that problem. I've run down and shoot a couple, and am going to put some live traps out in the back 40 acre hay field towards the more brushy areas. A coyote around here is as good as dead!

We don't have problems with much else. The ocasional rattlesnake, which tends to get ran over or shot...several times

lol.

I remember several years back at my familys place in MO we had problems with mountain lions. Some old man illeagaly had them cagged on his property. Before he died he let them loose on about 100 acres of horribly overgrown land. It was the crazyest thing. But when they got hungry cattle started dissapearing. I never saw them at the farm, but the horses would always get spooked. Our neighbor down the road a mile had a really nice 16h black Freckels Playboy rope horse I sold them earlier that year that got attacked by some kind of big cat. Ripped him all up down his flanks.

 

[Dona]

I highly recommend Great Pyrenees dogs. I wouldn't be without mine!

 

[Joanne]

It could also be fox mating season calls.

Ours have not started here in California yet. But they only use them when they are trying to find their mates.

 

[Minimor]

I would guess that what you heard was a fox screaming--the red fox's scream does sound much like what you described.

Supposedly they make this sound only during mating season, but I can tell you for sure that the fact is they do it any time, all year round, I am not sure why. Sometimes one will pass here, screaming every couple of minutes...sometimes they are quiet until something startles them or annoys them, they they will start screaming...set a dog on one just as it has grabbed its prey, so that the fox must drop that prey and run for its life, and then it's mad and will really scream!!

One got hit on the road near here a number of years ago, and it was lying in the middle of the road screaming...louder than normal...I presume that one was trying to make himself heard to his mate, who would have been back at the den with the kits, almost a mile from where he got hit. I had a personal grudge against that particular fox so didn't feel sorry for him--I went out to finish him off but a neighbor got there first in his vehicle & scared the fox off of the road into the ditch. Unable to finish him off there I had to go and find another neighbor with a gun.

Different foxes have different screams--some are very shrill, some are very hoarse, some sound very young...if you aren't familiar with them all sound really creepy!!

 

[~Dan]

Weve got quite a few coyotes around our place and the only I can do is put them in at night, i always hear them howling screaming never bothers the horses but boy does it spook the dog, maybe is because she was attacked last year, who knows, I would just the minis up at night just to be safe and reinforse your fence with wire mesh. Be safe.

Dan

 

[georgiegirl]

It sounds like coyotes to me. They each have a different call. I like to listen to them but dont want them in my yard.

The best money we ever spent was on chain link fence clear around our property. I run a hot wire on top of that. It keeps the dogs and wild things where they belong.

My horses are all shut in the barn at night. In the day, when we leave home, I make sure that the front gate is shut so that nothing can get in here.

 

[Bunnylady]

Thank you, all, for your suggestions. Shari, that's one heck of a fence you've got there!

Hubby said I have the go-ahead for acquiring a "dog-hating Percheron!"

I'd like to believe that what I heard was only a fox. Problem is, I've heard foxes before, and they always sounded shriller. I particularly remember being in the rabbitry at 3 a.m, getting ready to go to a rabbit show, and listening to a fox shrieking about 50 feet away. I also remember accidentally getting between a vixen and her dingbat cub, and hearing what she had to say about it. They do have surprisingly big voices!

I have a welded wire fence around my dry lot and pasture, with a hot wire at the top, and a one a few inches off the ground outside to discourage anything from trying to dig under. My chickens and ducks free range in the pasture, and one of the ducks has a very big mouth! No self-respecting predator could pass that up without at least checking things out. A few years ago, my (now deceased) FIL offered to pay for a chain-link fence surrounding our place. I've sometimes wished we had taken him up on it. Since our lot is more than 7 acres in size, that was a generous offer!

Whether fox or coyote, this critter has me looking over my shoulder more if I have to be out after dark. We've had a cluster of several confirmed rabies cases (foxes and raccoons) about 2 miles from here, just knowing that we have such a quick-moving predator on our doorstep makes me watch my step!

 

[kayla221444]

I have to say I am very thankful, to not have many preditors around in my area! Sounds like your problem is coyotes. We have coyotes around here but no-one has ever had an incident with them, except last year during the day I was out with the horses, when I heard our neighbor yelling very loudly, I looked across the road, and what looked to be a stray dog attacking his dog tied up to the dog zip line, was a coyote attacking his dog!!!! He luckily managed to beat it off with a broom, it must have been rabied or very hungry

to be out during the day! I was nervous about letting the minis out, but he never came back, and thats the only one I have ever seen, I hear them a lot though, they have a very chilling sound

. But like I said I am very thankful to not have to worrie about, cougars, bobcats, wolfs, and not many bears around in my area either!

Hopefully you can figure out something, so none of your babies get hurt!!

I also never knew Donkies were good protectors!

 

[horse_apples]

Someone else had mentioned that Coyotes make a range of sounds, not always like you hear on nature shows. This is absolutely true. Here in the Ohio Valley we have a waxing/waning Coyote population meaning that some years we hear/see them everywhere, some years go by without a peep. I know exactly the call you are describing and they usually make that sound at night when they are seeking each other out or communicating about hunting. I put my horses in the barn at night just to be safe. We live on 10 acres that borders a 500 acre wildlife area. Although the Dept of Natural Resources and Wildlife swears there are no big cats in Ohio, we had two dogs killed by a mountian lion a few years ago (a few miles from where we live now). Many neighbors lost cattle and pets. My husband and I used to keep our dogs in a big fenced in yard with a SIX FOOT chainlink fence day after day with no troubles at all. While at work one day, something jumped in and attacked them, then jumped back out. One of our dogs was still alive when we found them and we took him to the emergency vet who told us blatantly to call the Wildlife Division right away as only a Puma (mountian lion) could make wounds like our dog had. We had him put down because his injuries were inoperable

he was just a little weiner dog. The Ohio DNR comes out and demands the name of the vet, swears to us it was just coyotes jumping into the fence to teach each other how to fight (yeah right!) and there are no big cats in ohio. A few days later the vet calls and bedrugingly tells us she was wrong and it must have been coyotes who attacked the dogs, because there are no big cats in ohio. Sounds to me like she got bullied and told off by the state. HMPF!!!!!