Nationals

[stormy]

Sorry, this constant belittlement of the miniature horse as a breed just burns me every time. The american shetland also origionated from those long bodied, short legged, posty moving european shetlands, however, selective breeding and infusion of other breeds has changed the shetland and the miniature horse into two distinct types. It is a crime shetland can be dividied into foundation, classic and modern 'cause they can not decide what they want to be but Miniature breeders are forced to accept the modern type shetland as the standard for the miniature breed because most judges also own and raise the pony type horse. It has never helped a breed to "heat it up" historically. The shetland itself has remained a minor breed while the miniature horse grows in popularity so why should all be forced by a minority run registry to change to what many of us sure do not consider an improvement to the breed, by breeding miniature shetland ponies! There are a tremendous number of quality miniature horses out there, not posty moving, of excellent conformation and quality...the modern pony look is a change is direction, not an improvement to the breed.

It is also not a height registry when only certain breeds can be hardshipped in, not all who measure under 38".

That said horses hitting the wall, throwing drivers out of the cart, hitting other drivers horses, showing lame and still placing is a sham and sure does not make the registry or the breed look good. Perhaps knowing the world is watching will at least stop this kind of stuff.

 

[Leeana]

stormy Posted Today, 10:41 AM Sorry, this constant belittlement of the miniature horse as a breed just burns me every time. The american shetland also origionated from those long bodied, short legged, posty moving european shetlands, however, selective breeding and infusion of other breeds has changed the shetland and the miniature horse into two distinct types. It is a crime shetland can be dividied into foundation, classic and modern 'cause they can not decide what they want to be but Miniature breeders are forced to accept the modern type shetland as the standard for the miniature breed because most judges also own and raise the pony type horse. It has never helped a breed to "heat it up" historically. The shetland itself has remained a minor breed while the miniature horse grows in popularity so why should all be forced by a minority run registry to change to what many of us sure do not consider an improvement to the breed, by breeding miniature shetland ponies!

It is also not a height registry when only certain breeds can be hardshipped in, not all who measure under 38".

That said horses hitting the wall, throwing drivers out of the cart, hitting other drivers horses, showing lame and still placing is a sham and sure does not make the registry or the breed look good. Perhaps knowing the world is watching will at least stop this kind of stuff.

Your constant belittlement of the shetland breed burns me every time too. The miniature horse is the breed for EVERYBODY..there is no reason why the shetlands should not carry and show AMHR papers, im sorry that just because YOU do not like them is not a good enough reason. I believe the shetland blood is responsible for where the miniatures are today and for back when they really started getting refined..necky..leggy. Instead of being in denial about where and how our miniatures got to where they are today...how about we open up our minds and put our pride aside and be thankful for the REAL reason our miniatures look like they do today and look to the future to what our miniatures can look like in the future with just a little more shetland influence. If you breed a draft horse to a draft horse...you will not get an arabian

. There has to be a little something else in there...

There are a tremendous number of quality miniature horses out there, not posty moving, of excellent conformation and quality...the modern pony look is a change is direction, not an improvement to the breed.

Yes, there is a tremendous number of 'shetland bred back in the pedigree' miniature horses out there...you are free to breed them and own them as you or i or anyone wishes to.

 

[stormy]

Ahh but you are mistaken, I do like them. I raised Shetlands at one time, enjoyed them and working with them as shetlands. Losing what the miniature horse has become is a tragedy. Both breeds have their place just as Standardbreds and Morgans who have the same roots. Their is enough refinement and beauty in the Miniature horse without returning to the Shetland. Keep the Shetland and the Miniature horse as diverse and seperate breeds as they have become, or judge both types on a level playing field, or heaven forbid, class them by type as the Shetlands do.

I do not dislike the Shetland at all, I dislike losing the Miniature horse.

 

[Echo Acres]

I have to say I am not totally one way or another. But do have some feelings about the shetlands winning everything at nationals. Again this is just my opinion, doesn't make it right or wrong. 3 years ago at nationals it seemed the real pony looking horses were winning everything even one that was real hackney looking. It really burned me because this was not pony nationals. Even people that are raising double registered horses weren't happy. The last couple years, yes I see pony type horses winning, but not as much as that year. I am one that would like to see them stay a little more seperate, just personal preference.

My feelings on the ponies at nationals...I don't really think unless they are real miniature looking that they belong. They have shetland pony congress and I feel that is where they should shine. Leave the miniature horse nationals to the miniatures. Or seperate them out. We have a 2 year old filly who measures 36" we have had the hardest time winning with her. Everyone including many top trainers and breeders say they like her so much, yet she doesn't place at the top. Why because at her age she is competing with the ponies. It is really frustrating.

 

[Ashley]

The pony thing gets me to. Ponies are minis if they measure under, if they do they deserve every right to be at nationals. I have two ponies now, if either measures in next year they will be brought over to AMHR, and should I ever so you bet they will be out there.

As for a horse not winning because its up against ponies, BS the best horse will win. My suggestion is to step back and take a good look at your horse and make sure you really are not just being barn blind.

I would much rather watch and see ponies, they are alot more fun to watch and see then the minis. Alot of the issues people complain about are the reasons I have pretty much lost intrest in showing AMHR and the minis in general. But if I ever get out there again and bold enough it will be with the Shetlands.

 

[Jill]

For those of you who think the shetland-minis have an edge in the show ring, and you want to do well in the show ring -- I guess you've identified an opportunity to improve your showstring and the chances of getting the good ribbons

I admire the look of many of the shetland-minis and am sure I will be incorporating this into what we have going on at some point

 

[disneyhorse]

Just out of curiosity... can someone post some pictures of horses that they think are "mini only" but are just as nice as a Shetland? Personally I don't see a difference between the two. some you really can't tell. But I don't see what people get so defensive about "protecting the TRUE mini... can you post a picture of a TRUE mini please so I can see what some of you are striving for?

Thanks,

Andrea

 

[mininik]

I'm confused. So, where do Miniature Horses with say, Rowdy lines fall into all of this? And I guess Arenosa bred Miniatures are out? Where exactly would all of you like to draw the line on "Miniature Shetlands" and what exactly is a true Miniature Horse based on bloodlines, temperment and appearance?

 

[Boinky]

lol andrea... that was my thinking when i was reading these posts too.. what exactly DEFINES a 'true" mini. What exact standards do you define a 'true" mini by..other than perhaps there is no acknowlegement of "registered shetlands" in the lines (although we know many lines have shetlands that just werne't acknowledged as such quite close up... (buckeroo for one.....)? i don't see a HUGE difference in apperance either except some shetlands usually have better conformation and proportions but overall pretty much the same. i'm personally a very competitive person overall and i want to do well.. I bought myself some shetlands. Even if it wans't to be "competitive" i probably would have started incorporating them intomy proram even if they weren't nessarily as hot as they are now BECAUSE they have better conformation and that will help improve my breeding and conformation animals.

 

[Katiean]

I have shown several kinds of animals. Rabbits, sheep, dogs and yes horses (big and small). I have heard "My rabbit didn't win breed because the judge doesn't like me" and one of our Jr does took Best of Verity and the next show she was DQ'ed because she was a HE. Mistakes are made. In Dogs' I think they are the worst. My Keeshound and another always placed 1st and 2nd no matter how big the class was. One at one time and the other another time . His owners and I were friends and we knew our dogs. Then comes Mr Big Name Trainer/Haneder. He brings a dog that looks like he has been chaned under someones porch, was matted and he was skin and bones under all that hair (I did work my hand down through the mats). He took the breed that day.

However on the flip side. I was at the Reno AMHA show and there was a Mr Big Time Trainer that last year everything he took in the ring took 1st. This year same big trainer got nowhere and I am told he is very careful on choosing the horses he takes in so he will win. He even had a horse flip over in more than one driving class and let the others in the ring right his horse he didn't even get out of the cart. Even though most of the time this trainer gets the work done sometimes these trainers do get distracted.

. I was only at Regonals for a short time because I had just gotten out of the hospital after almost 3 weeks and almost dying. I still went to the show to take care of some business from the previous show and Mr Big Name Trainer was still in that slump.

I am not talking Nationals or World Shows. I have never been to one of those but I have seen less politics in AMHA then in the other animals I have shown. There are those that Try to make themselves "Important". But, when I go home do they affect my life? NO! So, I say take your horse out and do your best and have fun doing it. If you are not having fun at the shows you should not be going. I would not put my horse with a Big Name Trainer just to get that BIG WIN. I want my horses to win on his/her own marret. Not who is at the end of the lead or driving my horse.

 

[kathey]

This is one of my miniature stallions that is 30" and when placed up against a shetland cross, especially one that is taller, he looses every time. WHY?

This guy is AMHA/AMHR through and through. So why can't he place? I finally retired him from showing because of this.

 

[ckmini]

I love what the ASPC/AMHR horses are doing to improve (and yes I see it as improvement) to the minis.

BUT what I have a hard time with is a full-fledged modern shetland (whose shoes I'm sure were pulled right before they left for nationals) competeting in pleasure and roadster classes. To me these horses can and do have a place in the AMHR show ring, but in the park harness class!

Straight from the AMHR rulebook:

Park Trot: Extremely animated, cadenced trot, with

impulsion and power. The trot is bold and brilliant

with knees and hocks snapping high in expansive

and dramatic style, creating an illusion of lightness

with high-stepping action.

I know, my post raises the question of where you draw the line as to pleasure/park. I don't have the answer.

(note this is in reference to 1 such mare that was shown at Nationals, she was stunning and I would love to own her, but I feel she was shown in the wrong classes)

 

[Katiean]

Hey, my 11yr old then 10 year old neice trained her own horse to drive and only had 6 weeks to do it in. She showed against kids that had formal training and the horses were trained by MR Big Time Trainer and she placed 2nd and 3rd. She was thrilled because that shows SHE did her best. I would not quit showing just because I didn't take first. IMO, if you are so concerned about the Champions you are in it for the money and not the fun. When you quit having fun why show?

 

[disneyhorse]

Kathey... your buckskin stallion is pretty darn cute from that picture! However, if the class is not divided down, a taller horse usually places because they generally have a lot more leg, and thus are more "horselike" (most riding horses don't have short legs compared to their bodies, and that is what we are going for in the minis). It's hard to tell from the angle of that picture though.

And I DO have to say... not ALL of the horses that placed National Grand Champion in halter and driving were "Shetlands." It's not like you HAD to have a "Shetland" to do well at Nationals! Plenty of "true minis" (or at least AMHR only ones) did just fine. Perhaps I will have to check out the percentages. But plenty of "Shetlands" got the gate, after all the judges CANNOT see the papers of the horse!

A 35" gelding named "Buck Ons Jedi Knight Star" I trained and sold (out of AMHA/AMHR stallion Little Kings Buck On Broadway) was the National Grand Champion Pleasure Driving Over 34-36" this year. Yep, a good ole' "true mini." I KNOW there were SHETLANDS in the classes against him! And somehow he pulled it off! So you see, judges DO judge on the horse, not the papers... so I don't really see what the big deal is. The Shetlands just "tend" to have more extreme, correct conformation and bone as well as more motion... but not always.

Andrea

 

[disneyhorse]

CKMini... I think that Park Harness minis can cross enter into Roadster. And if the pony did compete at Congress as a Modern, they can cross enter from Harness to Roadster as well.

As to Park versus Pleasure... it depends on how the horse is going. A Park Horse is far more slow (in forward motion) and extreme (in knee action) than a Pleasure horse... so if they were really letting it move out I don't see that a lot of motion in Pleasure is a bad thing.

Andrea

 

[wpsellwood]

Ok Im adding my 2 cents because these posts are cracking me up. All I have heard for years and I mean years here on the forum is that miniatures are bred down shetlands. So its seems to me that shetlands are just beating shetlands and vice versa

 

[Jill]

Erica and my Destiny stallion is "just" a mini and he got Reserve National Grand Champion, Western Country Pleasure Driving, 32"-34", Saturday night... I'm still just a little proud

Destiny's also always shown very well in halter with his Hall of Fame in it and was National Champion last year in Ammy Halter Sr. Stallion, Under

If he's got any shetland in him, it's way on back and attributable to what is said of Buckeroo...

 

[wpsellwood]

Erica and my Destiny stallion is "just" a mini and he got Reserve National Grand Champion, Western Country Pleasure Driving, 32"-34", Saturday night... I'm still just a little proud
Destiny's also always shown very well in halter with his Hall of Fame in it and was National Champion last year in Ammy Halter Sr. Stallion, Under

And he is beautiful!

 

[MiniHunterHorseFan]

At the Nationals I saw some horses that totally bolted in the ring and galloped when they were trotting and some that reared when they should have been backing. But the judges placed those horses in the top five over horses that didn't do that. Now to me that wouldn't be fair. And I saw one horse I know had to be a high stepping shetland who tracked with his head pointed to the outside of the ring and didn't back smoothly but still placed 1st because of his high step. How is that fair? I think judges should drop horses like that who are high steppers with problems under horses who don't step as high but drive quite well.

 

[uwharrie]

I come from the dog show world. ( showed horses as a kid 30 odd years ago). Politics are in any aspect of showing, regardless of the species.

I usually show my IGs myself and for the most part do well. However with my second breed Dobermans I always use a handler. ( It is a political breed )

A GOOD handler be it dog or horse will make sure they always bring quality animals to the judges. Judges in turn know that. At least with dogs many judges were handlers once, so they understand the work involved.

After watching the AMHR nationals online I noticed one trainer/handler doing a lot of winning. I was told they will only take on National Caliber horses ( and their fees reflect that) So it stands to reason they will do their fair share of winning.

With the horses I plan to take the same course I have with dogs, show myself when I can and if I have an animal who I think is truely National caliber I will send them with a handler if I really want the win, otherwise will show myself and be happy with what I get.

And when you beat the big names or the politics it is even a sweeter victory!

BTW with IGs I have produced top winning dogs, and have owned top winning dogs, both owner handled and some professional handled.