I would like to ask a religous ?

[rabbitsfizz]

Karla having a humble spirit has NOTHING to do with accepting Jesus, I can assure you!!

I know you are not an arrogant person, I truly do, but thats SUCH an arrogant thing to say!!

You have to see that there are SO many truly good, truly kind ,REAL, people out there who are not Christian and never will be.

Who are "saved" in every meaning of the word.

Who will pass untouched through the fires of death and go straight to God praising him.

And are NOT Christian, nor ever will be, nor ever wanted to be.

Believe me, I am missing nothing.

Yo see me as missing out because you see things form a different perspective.

I know I am not as I see things from mine!!

Do not grieve for me- give you pity and help to someone who needs it , I assure you I do not

Windstorm, I have always understood that Judas was told to betray Christ- most probably by Christ himself.

Nowhere does it ever mention that he was not a good Disciple and nowhere is any jealousy ever spoken of or even hinted at- do you not think that, had it existed, human nature would have prevailed and we would have heard all about it form the gospels- they were written by men, after all, who were only human.

Peters lack of faith was chronicled in every detail, yet Judas road to his ultimate betrayal was not??

Why??

Because it did not exist.

He was not suddenly "got at" by satan, he was told to do it by someone he trusted.

Poor guy, he has paid the price down through the ages, his was the ultimate sacrifice, the Disciple who loved and trusted his leader more than any of his colleagues.

 

[Windstorm Minis]

[SIZE=10pt]There is a lot of info on N. Geographic about the findings of the Gospel of Judas.....very interesting....[/SIZE]

Scholars are also able to date ancient manuscripts by analyzing their content and linguistic style.

Three leading scholars examined these aspects of the Gospel of Judas and compared them with other manuscripts from the same period.

Historian Rodolphe Kasser is a former University of Geneva professor and a leading translator of the ancient manuscripts found at Nag 'Hammadi, Egypt, in 1945. Bible scholar Marvin Meyer of Chapman University in Orange, California, and Stephen Emmel, professor of Coptic (Egyptian Christian) studies at Germany's University of Munster joined Kasser in evaluating and translating the documents.

The scholars agree that the codex's theological concepts and linguistic structure are similar to those of the Nag 'Hammadi manuscripts. That large collection of texts dates to the same time period as the Judas documents.

The Nag 'Hammadi texts also contain Gnostic writings similar to those found in the Judas codex. Gnostic writings are early Christian texts deemed heretical by Christian leaders of the first centuries A.D.

Emmel explains that the Judas manuscript, like the Nag 'Hammadi texts, contains a second-century Gnostic thought process that would be very difficult to falsify.

To fabricate such a document, "you would have to reflect a world that is totally foreign to any world we know today," Emmel said. "A world that is 1,500 years old … is very difficult for scholars—even who spend their lives studying these things—to understand, let alone to 'create' for other people.

"It would take a real genius to produce an artifact like this and personally I don't think it possible."

"I have no doubt whatsoever that this codex is a genuine artifact of late antique Egypt and that it contains evidence for genuine works of ancient Christian apocryphal literature," Emmel added.

 

[Buckskin gal]

Isn't it being very niave to think that someone else is missing joy becaue they do not have the same beliefs as you? How do you know that a person does not experience as much joy as you just because they have different beliefs? And is it not possible that not all people find joy in the same things?

It seems you are sadly making judgements of another person , and it is not our place to judge...we are to accept others as we want to be accepted. I feel sorry for anyone who believes that only their way is the right way and judges others accordingly.

I find it very interesting how people are really asking and wanting to know more but each person has to take responsibility for what they are teaching ...if it turns toward judging another then what is taught but being judgemental.? Mary

"To rabbit, I say "okay." We'll never agree with the other's beliefs, for you think Christian beliefs are

naive and ridiculous.

and

I trust in myself to find the way.

and

I do not believe Jesus Christ is my saviour.

It takes a humble spirit to confess our sins and accept Jesus, rather than to feel we can take on the world ourselves. However, I do feel sad for you, for in my heart I know what joy you're missing. I do, however, completely respect your decision. As you do mine.

:
Oh MA would you tell me where that quote is in the Bible? I'm not familiar with it and wanted to read all around it.

 

[looney2n]

This thread becomes a little tense at times but that is not always a bad thing. Emotions are what are involved and God gave us those emotions. Each person has thier own beliefs in many things. But to think that we are correct just because they are our beliefs is being shallow. Now don't get all carried away with saying that was a judgemental statement. I am just referring to that type of thinking in general. Each of us got our beliefs from somewhere. As I stated in an earlier post, I was brought up believing so strongly in what my pastor had taught and I stood firmly by those beliefs. Finally, thank GOD, I was questioned about my beliefs, so I went to the source, my pastor, and he admitted to me, "well, that isnt actually how the Bible states it but that is how our religion believes". I was devistated to say the least. The issues that I had been standing firm on were, in fact, lies because I was told they were in the Bible. This effected me so much that I had to stand back and take a look at what I had been believing as truth for my whole life! It was one of the biggest, most humbling moments in my life. But I am thankful that it happened because if it had'nt, It is very probable that I would still be there. I now seek to understand God and what HIS will is for my life. That means that I have to keep my mind open to the Holy Spirit, and remain teachable through His word and leaders that base thier teachings from the word. IN MY OPINION, there is nothing else to go by? If we hold tight to believing something because the opposite may be a bit uncomfortable, then we are considered unteachable. Of course everyperson will have a different view of things but that is where the Holy Spirit comes into play. He will lead us as He did the people who wrote the LIVING word of God. Again, just my 2 cents,

: Looney2n

 

[Buckskin gal]

But it still comes down to you saying you are right because your beliefs are the only ones that are correct so others are wrong. Just because I am a Christian does not make it right for me to tell another that their beliefs are wrong or they aren't happy because they don't believe as I do. As I said before, even Christians don't interpret the Bible in the same way because it is ambiguous. I feel sorry for anyone who thinks God will only give them a place in heaven if they believe as you do......I do believe that God is much more generous and loving then what you may begiving him credit for. I can't believe that there is a God who would not allow his creations all the same rights. God is love and love forgives. Mary

Mary, I guess as each of us embraces our beliefs, and listens to, but does not make a change to another's faith, it could be seen as judgmental.

As a Christian I would just like to see everyone get to heaven. Do I think folks will get there by simply being a good person? That is not what my Bible teaches, so I'd be denying my faith if I agreed that would happen. I think stating one's beliefs and not accepting another's is not judgmental. It's just stating one's beliefs and not accepting another's.

How do you know that a person does not experience as much joy as you just because they have different beliefs?

I can honestly say I have never met more joy filled people than Christians. Lately it seems every especially joyful person comes from two different churches each about 30 minutes away. Sure makes me want to go there and get what they have.

: That's what I want to do for others.
I have been called naive before, okay, many times :lol: but never pertaining to my faith.

 

[Ashley]

Well I guess according to this I am going to heck then.......................im glad to know at least I wont be alone there!

:

 

[susanne]

If indeed heaven only accepts those of one belief (and a narrow one at that) and rejects those who live a life of goodness and kindness but who ascribe to different beliefs, then that is not heaven at all, at least not a heaven I would want to visit, let alone spend eternity.

I need only to witness an abused animal's ability to forgive and love to know that goodness and light is not the sole privilege of the churched. I find god in nature and in the creatures of the world. We are not born sinners, we are born good, kind and loving. We stray from this due to fear, but we can always find our way back through love. Some need help finding their way, and I am happy that we are each free to choose. Whatever helps you find love and goodness is a wonderful thing, and we need to respect each others' way.

Life is not about easy, comforting answers...it is a challenge. Those who seek simple answers often fall prey to cults (which exist amongst the fringes of all religions of the world). I admire those who approach their religious beliefs with a keen, intellectual curiosity rather than accepting someone else's teachings as a matter of blind faith. While I do not consider myself a Christian, but rather a pantheist, I enjoy and admire Karla's thorough knowledge upon which her belief is based.

 

[rabbitsfizz]

Susanne very well put!!

I say again, and shall say to my grave, I am NOT a Christian, I do NOT believe Jesus is my saviour, I shall NOT go to h-ell for it, I shall NOT be denied heaven for it.

My beliefs are as true and as valid as any Christians beliefs.

My heart is as full of joy.

I do not believe either the bible or the Q'ran are the living word of God, I know that they are not and I do believe it is naive to believe that they are.

The men that flew those aircraft into the twin towers, the men that blew up and murdered and maimed God alone knows how many people last year on July 7th- they had read the "living word of God" as interpreted by their mullah- it told them they would go straight to heaven as Martyrs and God would welcome them with open arms as true believers.

Do you think this is correct, because it says so in the "living word of God"??

Or is there just the one "living word of God"??

And it is the Christian one and all others are false, because that is EXACTLY what the Muslims are saying, about their"living word of God" as well!!!!

Do we all have to be Christians to enter heaven??

The very idea is preposterous!!

Ashley not only will you not be alone you will have some very good and interesting company- some of the deepest thinkers of all time were not Christians- Schweitzer, Plato, Aristotle, Hippocrates, Socrates- the list goes on and on and on.

This is an argument that cannot be resolved, Christians have always been a very closed minded faith, it was the very exclusiveness of the faith that got it started in the first place, when you get a faith, as mine, that allows all people to believe whatever they want so long as it does no harm to anyone, well, what's the point, a lot would ask.

If God loves us all why should I bother believing in a particular thing??

The thing at the very base of exclusive religions, that holds everyone to them, is the fear that they will go to h-ell if they do not.

I assure you all, not only do I not have this fear, I KNOW with a deep and truly joyful knowledge, that it is not true that God does not think that way.

Do no harm to anyone, live your life as well as you can.

By all means read the bible or the Q'ran if you want, they have some beautiful texts and some very useful adages, but do not allow them to rule your lives.

Live you lives according to your own beliefs, God's welcome will be just as real.

 

[lyn_j]

[SIZE=14pt]I think that the thread has become now an argument back and forth about who is right and who isnt. We are not saying that because you dont believe what we do you are a bad person.God is the final judge of that. We were told by God to share what we believe is our truth which we have done. God will hold each of us, accountable for His word, some for sharing it and others for how they chose to receive it. When Jesus sent the deciples out two by two to spread the Gospel they were hesitant too. They asked him "Lord what should we do if the people dont receive us?" and He told them "Shake the dust off your feet and move on" I am not able to pinpoint the verses for you like Karla and I am thankful that she came to this forum with all this knowledge. I have shared from my heart what has transpired in my life and how I feel about it. That is all God required me to do. How you, any of you, live and believe is between you and God.Seeds of faith have been planted here, We have watered them but God will give the increase.[/SIZE]

Lyn

 

[rabbitsfizz]

[SIZE=18pt]Lyn you will get no argument from me, or from any other non-Christian on here about who is right or wrong.[/SIZE]

My beliefs have room for everyone.

It is only the Christians who have so far put forward any sort of intimation that anyone is right or wrong.

The suggestion that only Christians can enter Heaven is offensive in the extreme.

That is basically all I have to say

 

[Gena]

I am just wondering if you have ever lost or waivered in your faith? If you have, how did you get it back? I am feeling a little lost and uncertain at the moment when it comes to God. Nothing major has happened to make me feel this way, I do not know know why I feel this way.

I can share with you what what my beliefs are: When I start to feel that I am waivering its usually because I am not spending enough time with God. I believe I should put God first in my life but admit I don't usually do that with the rat race of life. When I do however make time for my relationship with God my life is more peaceful. God is my strength. I know in my heart He is patient with me, forgiving, loving, and kind. I have been through so much in my life and don't know how I would have made it without feeling God was there watching over me. I believe God is the same before, now, and forever. I believe that He made us in His own image and gives us the feedom of choice. I can't imagine my children loving me because they would have to, I believe God feels the same way. I believe He is the creator of everything. I do believe that Jesus is the son of God. I do believe that He is my savior. I believe He came to earth to give us everlasting life in heaven. The time we have here on earth is so itty bitty compared to the time we will have in eternity. Of course I have questions for God like most people do but I have the faith of a child. I do not judge others that believe differently, it is not our place to judge. I believe God and God alone knows each and every one of our hearts.

 

[mrgizzmoe]

the bottom line is what ever keeps you going and keeps you going thur life in a good way cant be a bad thing. i may not have the faith that most of you all have but being religous is not always for everyone. the biggest thing some people seem to forget is that we all need to agree to disagree if that is the case.

i am overy opened minded . i cant buy into anyone thorey of god or anything. there could be nothing or there could be everything. all i can do is try to be the best person i can be daily...my faith is in me more than anything.

 

[Windstorm Minis]

I have to say that overall I think this is one of the best discussions on religion that I have been somewhat a part of - everyone has been allowed to express their beliefs/opinions without being visciously attacked - all of you are to be commened on that - especially on such a passionate topic!!

I am still interested in what folks think of the findings of the Gospel of Judas, especially with this wonderful diverse group

:

Because of some negative experiences in church, I don't have a really high opinion of "organized" religion. I don't believe that you have to go to church to have faith or believe in God or Jesus or pray or any of that.

Up until my Dad passed away suddenly in 1995, I really did not think much about any of it and frankly did not even care about any kind of religion. Since then I have thought more about it, as in I hope there is something after we die - I hope one day I do get to see my Dad again and others that have passed on. It gives me comfort to believe that I will.

I have decided to actually read the entire Bible and see what conclusions I come to and write down questions that I have.

I want to know what it says about Judas versus what his writings say. Rabbit - did you say that it doesn't say anything about his "betrayal" of Jesus in the Bible?

What I want to know is who said what about Judas? Maybe this is not the right starting point, but I found it very intriguing, as I had always heard that Judas was "condemmed" as the betrayer of Jesus and yet now his writings say that he was told to do that, which is a huge, huge difference.

I just read a book that John Hagee wrote - have any of you read any of his publishings?

I found the book, Jeruselem Countdown, facinating and very scary. It is about Isreal and the Jews and the Bible and what all is going on now over there. The very interesting thing is he wrote this over a year ago and everything he stated that would happen this year - has happened.

Sorry if I have made no sense at all.

:

 

[Buckskin gal]

What is God but love???If we feel we are not spending enough time with God then perhaps we are not spending enought time in giving love. God asks nothing else from us but to love. If we replace the word "God" with "Love" we will actually get further ahead in living the life we were given in a positive manner than not. It is how the Bible has been interpreted that makes it a problem....such as God being depicted by the writers in two different ways. One, a kind loving, compassionate, forgiving god and another as a revengeful, punitive, god that went so far as to zap a woman into a pillar of salt because she looked back! I want no part of a god who would do some of the things that men have written him to be!! I can forgive a person for doing wrong but how can I be expected to forgive a god who would do horrible things? Forget all the different religions and we would be better off in just believing that our bodies are the temple of God and if we believe this we will alwayshave him near and dear to us.

I love the writings of Kahill Gibran because he puts into words so much of what I feelIn his book "The Prophet" he states:

"Is not religion all deeds and all reflection......?

Who can separate his faith from his actions, or his belief from his occupations? Who can spread his hours before him, saying, This is for God and this is for myself; This for my soul, and this other for my body?

And he to whom worshipping is a window, to open but also to shut, has not yet visiterd the house of his soul whose windows are from dawn to dawn.

Your daily life is your temple and your religion."

Being a Christian, some Christians say, is a very tough life but it doesn't have to be tough if you have love and respect for all people. JMHO Mary

I am just wondering if you have ever lost or waivered in your faith? If you have, how did you get it back? I am feeling a little lost and uncertain at the moment when it comes to God. Nothing major has happened to make me feel this way, I do not know know why I feel this way.

I can share with you what what my beliefs are: When I start to feel that I am waivering its usually because I am not spending enough time with God. I believe I should put God first in my life but admit I don't usually do that with the rat race of life. When I do however make time for my relationship with God my life is more peaceful. God is my strength. I know in my heart He is patient with me, forgiving, loving, and kind. I have been through so much in my life and don't know how I would have made it without feeling God was there watching over me. I believe God is the same before, now, and forever. I believe that He made us in His own image and gives us the feedom of choice. I can't imagine my children loving me because they would have to, I believe God feels the same way. I believe He is the creator of everything. I do believe that Jesus is the son of God. I do believe that He is my savior. I believe He came to earth to give us everlasting life in heaven. The time we have here on earth is so itty bitty compared to the time we will have in eternity. Of course I have questions for God like most people do but I have the faith of a child. I do not judge others that believe differently, it is not our place to judge. I believe God and God alone knows each and every one of our hearts.

 

[Ojai Minis]

What is God but love???If we feel we are not spending enough time with God then perhaps we are not spending enought time in giving love. God asks nothing else from us but to love. If we replace the word "God" with "Love" we will actually get further ahead in living the life we were given in a positive manner than not. It is how the Bible has been interpreted that makes it a problem....such as God being depicted by the writers in two different ways. One, a kind loving, compassionate, forgiving god and another as a revengeful, punitive, god that went so far as to zap a woman into a pillar of salt because she looked back! I want no part of a god who would do some of the things that men have written him to be!! I can forgive a person for doing wrong but how can I be expected to forgive a god who would do horrible things? Forget all the different religions and we would be better off in just believing that our bodies are the temple of God and if we believe this we will alwayshave him near and dear to us.

I love the writings of Kahill Gibran because he puts into words so much of what I feelIn his book "The Prophet" he states:

"Is not religion all deeds and all reflection......?

Who can separate his faith from his actions, or his belief from his occupations? Who can spread his hours before him, saying, This is for God and this is for myself; This for my soul, and this other for my body?

And he to whom worshipping is a window, to open but also to shut, has not yet visiterd the house of his soul whose windows are from dawn to dawn.

Your daily life is your temple and your religion."

Being a Christian, some Christians say, is a very tough life but it doesn't have to be tough if you have love and respect for all people. JMHO Mary

Mary,

I am really enjoying your posts. This is exactly how I feel. I am not good at expressing my feelings, so thank you! One of my BIGGEST lessons I am learning is Life does not have to be hard

It's all about my attitude. Forgivness of my self is also another big lesson for me. I am continually working on adding love to all that I do and say and feel. But I am a work in progress and am not perfect

:

Liz V.

 

[Gena]

What is God but love???If we feel we are not spending enough time with God then perhaps we are not spending enought time in giving love. God asks nothing else from us but to love. If we replace the word "God" with "Love" we will actually get further ahead in living the life we were given in a positive manner than not. It is how the Bible has been interpreted that makes it a problem....such as God being depicted by the writers in two different ways. One, a kind loving, compassionate, forgiving god and another as a revengeful, punitive, god that went so far as to zap a woman into a pillar of salt because she looked back! I want no part of a god who would do some of the things that men have written him to be!! I can forgive a person for doing wrong but how can I be expected to forgive a god who would do horrible things? Forget all the different religions and we would be better off in just believing that our bodies are the temple of God and if we believe this we will alwayshave him near and dear to us.

I love the writings of Kahill Gibran because he puts into words so much of what I feelIn his book "The Prophet" he states:

"Is not religion all deeds and all reflection......?

Who can separate his faith from his actions, or his belief from his occupations? Who can spread his hours before him, saying, This is for God and this is for myself; This for my soul, and this other for my body?

And he to whom worshipping is a window, to open but also to shut, has not yet visiterd the house of his soul whose windows are from dawn to dawn.

Your daily life is your temple and your religion."

Being a Christian, some Christians say, is a very tough life but it doesn't have to be tough if you have love and respect for all people. JMHO Mary

I am just wondering if you have ever lost or waivered in your faith? If you have, how did you get it back? I am feeling a little lost and uncertain at the moment when it comes to God. Nothing major has happened to make me feel this way, I do not know know why I feel this way.

I can share with you what what my beliefs are: When I start to feel that I am waivering its usually because I am not spending enough time with God. I believe I should put God first in my life but admit I don't usually do that with the rat race of life. When I do however make time for my relationship with God my life is more peaceful. God is my strength. I know in my heart He is patient with me, forgiving, loving, and kind. I have been through so much in my life and don't know how I would have made it without feeling God was there watching over me. I believe God is the same before, now, and forever. I believe that He made us in His own image and gives us the feedom of choice. I can't imagine my children loving me because they would have to, I believe God feels the same way. I believe He is the creator of everything. I do believe that Jesus is the son of God. I do believe that He is my savior. I believe He came to earth to give us everlasting life in heaven. The time we have here on earth is so itty bitty compared to the time we will have in eternity. Of course I have questions for God like most people do but I have the faith of a child. I do not judge others that believe differently, it is not our place to judge. I believe God and God alone knows each and every one of our hearts.

I believe God is love, it is Gods wonderful perfect love that I cherish in my life. I will be the first to humbly admit I am not perfect, and is why I am honest and share I don't always spend time with God the way I would like to nor do I always love perfectly. For me to have a close, growing relationship with anyone I need to spend some valuable, quality time with them. Life is busy and I try very hard to use my time and share my love in the way I feel God would want me to. I believe for me to stay on the right path God needs to be first in my life not just once in a while but all the time. I believe its because we are not perfect that God sent his son Jesus so that our sins are forgiven and we can spend eternity in heaven with Him. I am so greatful that God is the one and only true judge for even though I am not perfect and never will be, He forgives me through Jesus, loves me, and knows my heart

 

[Buckskin gal]

Thank you Liz. So very true for many of us....Life doesn't have to be difficult because we so often make it what it is. I have learned to appreciate life so much more as I have grown older. Forgiveness of ourselves can be a difficult thing if we have been raised to believe the wrong things. After the teachings of religion I had as a child, I did not feel worthy of anything and had to learn that Iam a creation of thel oving God and if I was not capable of forgiving myself I was not capable of forgiving others. We are all a work in progress and we all strive to do the best we can with what we have. I have confidence now. in human nature and believe all have worth. Each individual has something to learn and each has something to teach.....so much to learn from all points of view. I think we make a big mistake in expecting perfection from ourselves and others, in all we do. After all what is perfection? Hugs, Mary

I am really enjoying your posts. This is exactly how I feel. I am not good at expressing my feelings, so thank you! One of my BIGGEST lessons I am learning is Life does not have to be hard

It's all about my attitude. Forgivness of my self is also another big lesson for me. I am continually working on adding love to all that I do and say and feel. But I am a work in progress and am not perfect

:

Liz V.

 

[user 488]

Mary,

I am really enjoying your posts. This is exactly how I feel. I am not good at expressing my feelings, so thank you! One of my BIGGEST lessons I am learning is Life does not have to be hard

It's all about my attitude. Forgivness of my self is also another big lesson for me. I am continually working on adding love to all that I do and say and feel. But I am a work in progress and am not perfect

:

Liz V.

I agree! I have really enjoyed your posts! Thank you Mary!

Carol

 

[capall beag]

Excellent Buckskin Gal!

Really well put!!

 

[looney2n]

Someone referenced the Harsh way that God punished people in the Bible. I just want to point out that in those days (the Old Testement), people who wanted to repent had to offer sacrifices of lambs and such for forgiveness of thier sins. (Can you imagine if we had to do that today!? I would be outside 24/7, roasting marshmellows as I offer up all of those sacrifices! :no: ) But then God brought Jesus into the picture (the New Testement). Jesus suffered unbelievably for EVERY man so that we may have the priveledge of simply going to our Father in humility and remorse for the sins we commit and ask for forgiveness. Once we do that, He is faithful to forgive us. Jesus was the ultimate sacrifice so we can not only have our sins forgiven but through that sacrifice, see the perfect love that God has for His children, to have His precious son die FOR US.

I have re-read so many posts on here and it is really quite an interesting group. It is awesome to see so many different people with varying beliefs but the majority just simple want to please God. I think that God is reading it all too and just smiling REALLY BIG at all of us right now with a twinkle in His eye!. I love that picture!

looney2n