I Got A Big Time Biter?? How Do I Make Him Stop??

[New2Minis]

I posted a couple of days ago about getting a new coming 2 year old Colt. He is a rearer and a biter! So far he has done very good after a few corrections about not rearing but he wants to bite NON STOP.......What do I do about this, I have never had one that wants to BITE constantly????

 

[Jean_B]

Sounds like you have a seriously spoiled one on your hands. This is sooooo dangerous and not as easy to fix. But it must be stopped immediately before he latches on to your....or a kid's face!

Again, 3 second rule. He even tries to bite severely reprimanded immediately. He is exhibiting typical stallion behavior as the "alpha" -- you need to take that position back. Yell, hit, kick, anything that puts you at the top of the pecking order. Possibly carry a whiffle bat and every time he tries to nip, immediately give him a hard whack. It won't hurt him but it will startle him and make him think twice next time.

Another tactic to be used as a last resort....get a VERY heavy leather glove. Put SHARP nails firmly between your fingers - a couple between each, protruding about 1/2 inch. This takes a total lack of fear on your part because you have to become the aggressor. Let him try to bite your hand and when he does - shove that fist of nails into his lips but WATCH OUT -- he will come unglued and possibly flip over. And a couple of bloody lips on his part is better than losing part of yours!!

And as has been mentioned before - if you don't plan on using him as a stallion - snip snip would definitely be in order here.

But just so you don't think I advocate beating a horse - he needs to be rewarded for good behavior. If he's standing quietly, give him an extra scratch. And NEVER NEVER NEVER give him any treats out of your hands as this encourages nipping. He already has too many bad habits.

 

[New2Minis]

He is a smart little cookie! After we went round and round over the rearing a couple of times, he has been giving me my space when I go in the stall with him. All it took was for me to see a hoof in front of my face to come unglued on him!!! It is just hard because me and my kids enjoy so much loving on our Mini's and it is hard when you have when that wants to bite you as soon as you reach to pet him or blanket him or anything! I guess it will just take time. I just need to kowo what all to do to get him to stop, if anybody has dfferent tricks for me to try............

 

[ChrystalPaths]

Now forgive me Jean but that is no way to teach a "mini" stallion manners.

Now you have a new guy in the barn and he is gonna try to see just what you are made of. YOU are the mare. Keep in mind in a horse herd "mares" are in charge NOT the stallion. He opens that mouth and you get HUGE and LOUD. Arms over your head, move fast to him and yell QUIT! then step aside and turn your butt to him and if he reacts well, then be nice. This will take time and patience not nails.

 

[DunPainted]

[SIZE=12pt]DITTO..... [/SIZE] what Jean said! ........ On so many levels!

As one of my most respected mini mentors.....Jean's warning regarding this EXTREMELY DANGEROUS SITUATION should not go unheeded.

When we purchased our first few miniatures, a drop-dead-gorgeous young stallion couldn't be passed up. Understand, I have very limited experience with horses.....which makes for lack of gray matter altogether. Well, we brought the "sweet boy" home and BAM, he transformed into a Tasmanian Devil. Why? Our utter lacking in knowledge of stallion behavior, etc. which, quite literally, became downright deadly.

I don't know much, but my observation is there's not many colts worthy of remaining intact ... by virtue of their conformation, breeding and TEMPERMENT. Even in experienced hands, stallions can/will present an unpredicable, dangeous situation.

Please forgive me, but I firmly believe the vast majority of colts/stallions should get the SNIP SNIP.

Like their larger counterparts, Geldings make wonderful, reliable companions. Without saying, regardless of gender (stallion/mare/gelding) owners must be vigilant to require their horses to "mind your manners"!

Just sayin is all....

 

[KrazyHorses]

My little guy has been that way since the day he was born...rearing and nipping. He will be three months on Dec 26th. I've been reprimanding him and he complies, but the minute you aren't looking he tries to sneak a nip.

His mom lets him jump all over her and lets him nip her all over. Her winter coat is gone. I had to buy her a blanket this year, but he bites it off of her. IMO, she is not keeping him in check and lets him get away w/ murder. Then, he thinks he can do the same w/ me. I'm keeping consistent and may have to step it up a notch.

Any suggestions for training a young colt not to nip all the time are greatly appreciated!!

 

[rabbitsfizz]

It is totally beyond me why people would want to meet play with aggression.

This colt is attempting to use you as another horse- my two colts fight constantly, they bicker, and rear and bite one another quite hard when they are loose together- which is all the time except feed time.

When I go in, very, very occasionally they will attempt a bit of "over the top" behaviour with me and all it takes is a VERY hard look and a foot stamp to send them scurrying.

This is a TWO year old- he is NOT a stallion he is a COLT he is a baby trying to find out where the borders are and, so far, no one has told him.

Use force and he will fight you.

Use passive resistance and he will learn to respect you.Beating something/someone up will make them obey, it will never gain respect.

It is up to you, you can take the short "fix" if you want but the aggression will come back, in spades, later on.

Or you can teach the horse where the boundaries are and he will stay told for the rest of his life.

Why someone would assume a horse knows it is not supposed to jump on a human is totally beyond me.

I constantly get this with people with puppies "he bites me" Yes, well, stop playing with him in a way that encourages him then, simple, he does not understand he is not supposed to do it, neither does your colt.

So teach him.

Have a halter on him whenever you deal with him, and a lead rope.

With as little force as possible just flick the lead when he tries to bite and stamp your foot and raise your head and make eye contact.

That is really all it should take.

Giving him another horse to play with and getting him gelded will round it all off.

CONSISTENCY.

Short fix will stop him but will not teach him.

Long haul teaching will cure the problem.

 

[Jill]

He really needs to be dealt with FIRMLY!

If he were mine, I'd have a crop and I would wack the you know what out of him (shoulders, not face) as soon as he made to bite me. I would just light into him hard. I'd carry the crop and let him have it any time he tried to bite until he stopped.

I don't mean a little slap at all and not just one. I mean make him HURT for it because it's a serious situation. There's a member here who actually had a stallion bite her lip OFF.

 

[rabbitsfizz]

As I have said, you can take the short, aggressive, "fix" or you can teach him not to do it, it is up to you.

Aggression breeds aggression, force is met with force.

If you hit him and, instead of running away he turns round and starts kicking you, or rears up and slaps at you, he is reacting as any young stallion, faced with another one fighting him, would do.

So, if this happens, what do you do then??

Use even more force??

Punish him even more severely for acting as a normal high spirited youngster??

Or teach him firmly and quietly that this is not how you wish him to behave???

 

[Jill]

Well, Jane, it's not as if those of us recommending physical correction never dealt with a horse or two before. I can tell you, I have no current biters or rearers. I've done as I suggest and I have some very well behaved horses.

 

[New2Minis]

It is totally beyond me why people would want to meet play with aggression.

This colt is attempting to use you as another horse- my two colts fight constantly, they bicker, and rear and bite one another quite hard when they are loose together- which is all the time except feed time.

When I go in, very, very occasionally they will attempt a bit of "over the top" behaviour with me and all it takes is a VERY hard look and a foot stamp to send them scurrying.

This is a TWO year old- he is NOT a stallion he is a COLT he is a baby trying to find out where the borders are and, so far, no one has told him.

Use force and he will fight you.

Use passive resistance and he will learn to respect you.Beating something/someone up will make them obey, it will never gain respect.

It is up to you, you can take the short "fix" if you want but the aggression will come back, in spades, later on.

Or you can teach the horse where the boundaries are and he will stay told for the rest of his life.

Why someone would assume a horse knows it is not supposed to jump on a human is totally beyond me.

I constantly get this with people with puppies "he bites me" Yes, well, stop playing with him in a way that encourages him then, simple, he does not understand he is not supposed to do it, neither does your colt.

So teach him.

Have a halter on him whenever you deal with him, and a lead rope.

With as little force as possible just flick the lead when he tries to bite and stamp your foot and raise your head and make eye contact.

That is really all it should take.

Giving him another horse to play with and getting him gelded will round it all off.

CONSISTENCY.

Short fix will stop him but will not teach him.

Long haul teaching will cure the problem.

That is why I wrote COLT in my question.....I am perfectly aware he is still a baby and playful. I KNOW ALL young horses nip being playful but he is doing it CONSTANTLY....he even bites the halter when you go to put it on him. The person that had him before did not mess with him much and she was timid around him. Just fed him over the fence but rarely went in him paddock with him because she was afraid of his behavior. I was asking for advice or any tricks to help try and get him to stop.

 

[ChrystalPaths]

Ok, last response...let us keep in mind this "colt" is in a new home...new everything. Here is a young horse in his teenage hormonal stage. I find 2 yr old colts to be "the" challenge of the stallion years. I stand by my belief that you being the mare will bring this behavior to a close.

When you said he opens his mouth to be haltered I got it. My Glow used to do this. Now mind, I raised him from a weanling. But at 2 he was "Da MAN". Many here will criticize this, but what I did was when haltering this boy soon as he opened his mouth I'd pop in a cookie. Boy was he confused. I didn't offer the cookie, I put it in his mouth then haltered him and we got down to business. If he swung his head to me as we walked I'd walk into him.

Now as for using a crop....I use them to keep personal space. As I walked with him I'd keep it pointed towards him and if he crowded I'd poke. This is a child horse..say a 14 yr old. Pain in the a@@ for sure but I equate overly aggressive tactics with slapping that child around for being...a difficult child. Get in his head, always tell him what you are doing and what you expect from him. Direct eye contact is a must, he'll look away. Being loud and in "his space" is what a mare would do. YELL Quit, stomp, move in fast....don't hurt him. If you don't need a stallion..give him a gift and geld him.

 

[MiLo Minis]

The answer is in watching your herd interact with each other. When 2 COLTS are playing they nip and duck and whirl and kick at each other. When a colt goes up to an alpha mare (which should be our position in the herd whether we are male or female) and tries to play she will tell him firmly and in no uncertain words, with a swing of her head and pinned ears, that he is not to play with her. If he misunderstands and comes back for more she will give him a loud squeal, firm bite or solid kick. Yes this is aggression but it is to teach an important lesson that he needs to learn so that no one in the herd gets hurt. If you have already tried the "head swinging and pinned ears" approach as Rabbit suggests then it is time to use a little more aggressive tactics such as Jean suggests. Horses meet violence with violence all the time in their daily lives and as we are part of their herd we need to speak to them in the language they understand. We are weaker than them and will never be able to hit or kick them as hard as another horse could and biting them gets us a mouthful of hair. The nails in the hand are a good replacement for "teeth" and as you are carrying them and he essentially runs into them himself and gets an instant punishment for his behaviour they work rather well. Trying to hit or kick a horse can turn into a game of duck and play which is exactly what we are trying to discourage. Gelding may or may not stop this type of behaviour if he has already learned he can get away with it. As Jill already mentioned they can do quite a lot of damage with their teeth. I have seen cheeks bitten off and chunks taken out of arms and legs requiring plastic surgery to repair. I seldom advocate aggression when dealing with a horse but this is one of those exceptions.

 

[New2Minis]

Ok, last response...let us keep in mind this "colt" is in a new home...new everything. Here is a young horse in his teenage hormonal stage. I find 2 yr old colts to be "the" challenge of the stallion years. I stand by my belief that you being the mare will bring this behavior to a close.

When you said he opens his mouth to be haltered I got it. My Glow used to do this. Now mind, I raised him from a weanling. But at 2 he was "Da MAN". Many here will criticize this, but what I did was when haltering this boy soon as he opened his mouth I'd pop in a cookie. Boy was he confused. I didn't offer the cookie, I put it in his mouth then haltered him and we got down to business. If he swung his head to me as we walked I'd walk into him.

Now as for using a crop....I use them to keep personal space. As I walked with him I'd keep it pointed towards him and if he crowded I'd poke. This is a child horse..say a 14 yr old. Pain in the a@@ for sure but I equate overly aggressive tactics with slapping that child around for being...a difficult child. Get in his head, always tell him what you are doing and what you expect from him. Direct eye contact is a must, he'll look away. Being loud and in "his space" is what a mare would do. YELL Quit, stomp, move in fast....don't hurt him. If you don't need a stallion..give him a gift and geld him.

Thanks for your response Dimi, I agree with what you are saying. I also use the crop to inforce my space. He has been a quick learner so far and is leading great without the rearing. I have a 2 year old "big" colt so i know they are like annoying teenagers at this age. I just have never seen one want to bite constantly, just to even pet him while he is at the stall door he is ready to chomp. I can not turn my back at him for a second!! And yes he is going to be my stallion and that is why I am wanting to get him under control now!

 

[Charlotte]

Hi new2minis

Everyone is offering suggestions which I am sure have worked for them at some time or another. Because we have young stallions coming in here every year for training we have more experience with 'agressive play' in young stallions than I would like to have.

Here we do as Rabbitsfizz suggested. we always have a halter and lead on the horse anytime we will be interacting with him. Then we give him a job. We engage his mind in learning something different. We walk to the round pen, but never in a straight line........we zig, we zag, go in circles ........all to keep his attention on what that crazy human is doing rather than on what horse wants to do.

we free lunge (with halter left on) in the round pen. Changing directions frequently in order to establish ourselves as leader of the herd. We lunge until horse is beginning to tire as evidenced by licking of lips and wanting to stop. Once horse is wanting to stop we have him go a few more laps before allowing stop. Then we zig zag like a drunk to the walker where horse walks for 30-45 minutes to cool down. (Don't have a walker to cool down? then you will hand walk to cool horse....any acting up? zig zag) Once horse is sufficiently cooled and while tired have a good grooming session paying particular attention to LOTS of rubbing on the head and mouth and ears. Then if at all possible turn him out with another horse to play with in order to keep his energy worked off.

It took this colt 2 years to learn this behavior. It could very well take 4 years to unlearn it, but CONSISTENT training/handling should eventually accomplish this. Plan to go from round pen training to obstacle training etc......to keep him learning something new all the time.

Bottom line is.....if you don't have the time to devote to this project don't keep him! And next time you look for a stallion make disposition and training your primary criteria.

Good luck with this one!

Charlotte

 

[DunPainted]

:aktion033: [SIZE=10pt]YEAH.... Charlotte's Back !![/SIZE]

:

How's Frank, my friend?!

This advice is going into my "PROPER THINGS TO DO WITH MINIS" document!

I guess it's just like a kid, get the little begger occupied with physical activity AND learning something new. When a child is left to his own devices without parental guidance, it's a safe bet trouble follows. The longer the trouble, the more creative/sneaky.

Generally, a second posting is not Dunpainted's usual habit. However, taking the time to share advice from a vast knowledge and hands-on technique to bring out the best in such "fellas", is certainly appreciated.

HERE....HERE.... Charlotte!

Of the few things I know, GENETIC temperment is passed on to a stallion's get. Thus, based on what you've written -- training a genetically sassy "male" seems to be an enormous, time-consuming, perhaps fruitless effort.

AGAIN, I firmly believe stallion owners have a responsibility to take their stallion's temperment into consideration, prior to breeding. Logic dictates that a breed's gene pool shouldn't be contaminated by less-than-suitable character defects.

Frankly, in five years of assisting in AI breeding with two Friesian stallions on the same farm, you couldn't PAY ME to have a get of one of their stallions. From a tempermental standpoint, he's a knot-head (his only attribute is carrying the homozygous black gene). As such, his subborn snottiness gets passed down to his get.

Conversely, the other stallion is a downright puppy. His foals are calm, friendly and easily trainable. This fact I've observed from the 25+ mares bred on their farm each year, AND handling the foals as they develop.

 

[Charlotte]

Hey Cindy! How are you doing? Did you make the birthday party????

I'm so in hopes this 2 year old comes around for new2minis. She wouldn't have bought him if he didn't have lots of good qualities she liked....right new2minis???

: Hoping the best for you new2minis!

Charlotte

 

[Relic]

l think thats the big key to stallions not CONSTANT wacking and yelling. You know like some peoples handshakes are just downright wishy washy while others are firm and confident..will l really believe when someone needs to correct a stallion for whatever reason... they feel about the punishment the way l do the wishy washy handshake.

 

[New2Minis]

Hey Cindy! How are you doing? Did you make the birthday party????

I'm so in hopes this 2 year old comes around for new2minis. She wouldn't have bought him if he didn't have lots of good qualities she liked....right new2minis???

: Hoping the best for you new2minis!

Charlotte

You are right , Charlotte!! He was owned by a friend of mine and i fell in love with his sassyness! She definately could not handle him and should not own a stallion. I know he is trying to be the boss but it is not working for him now, my son says he is probably thinkin "oh crap, my vacation is over!" He is NOT aggressive in his biting , like he doesnt lunge at you bearing his teeth......he just tries to take a chomp out of you every change he gets but that kind of play hurts!!! we had a reall good morning exercise this mroning, still nippey but he was listening........I love and enjoy all the advice, I know you all have dealt with this before for it is neat to find out different techniques!

:

:

 

[Sandee]

I will tell you from experience that if you pick a fight with your little colt all you'll get back is more fight. That's the way it has worked here.

We bought a little colt just 18 mo. old and he reared which we worked it out (pulling him off balance when he's up in the air makes him rethink the advicesability of getting the front feet off the ground).

He started nipping which we have dealt with by using the rope end of the halter to smack his little chops and yelling very loud. However the one time that he actually kicked at me and I hit back - started to snowball into a real fight. I've learned since, that he's not really "mean". He wasn't feeling well and I tried to take his temperature. He kicked out breaking the thermometer and I smacked his rear which started him bucking and kicking and I backed off. If I had thought about the reason that he kicked out, I probably wouldn't have picked a fight. I had to regain his trust later when he was well again. Sometimes it's better to stop and try to figure out why something's happening.

Please notice I did say we correct him when he nips. I'm not saying let him "get away with murder".