How would you feel if you found out................

[Charlene]

if marty's post doesn't drive it home to him, nothing will. i see the effects of drunk driving almost every day in my work. i don't know where this person lives but here in illinois, his THIRD offense would have resulted in a felony and he would be doing hard time.

i sometimes think alcohol is even more addictive than drugs. i just don't know, maybe because it's easier to get and isn't illegal, in and of itself. but i just can't wrap my brain around the idea that a person can get stumbling drunk and get behind the wheel of a car OR on a motorcycle! i never realized how bad an addiction this can be until we had a client in here last year who was on his 4th DUI. even after spending time in a state prison and coming out dry, he went right back to his old ways. not only did he drink and drive, he drank and drove...you better be sitting down for this one...AFTER A LIVER TRANSPLANT!!! how, in God's name, can a person go through such a medical crisis and then put poison in his body, poison that will surely kill him???

this man is now sitting is prison. we hear from him almost weekly...complaining because he isn't getting his anti-rejection drugs on time and he's afraid he will die. i have absolutely NO sympathy for him. none! and i never will. :no:

 

[MountainMeadows]

Russ,

My heart aches for you, please re-read your last post, and relive the feelings that you have gone thru that have sent you down the path of asking for help here in the first place. Then reread my post, Lisa's & DangerRangers. This is way bigger than you, you cannot help your friend, he is not capable of being a friend while he is using. He may never get well, the journey to do so is a long, very difficult one and he has not taken even the first step. He will continue to manipulate, play games, justify, evade and whatever else it takes to "allow" himself to not look in the mirror. He will seek out those who are sympathetic & listen and suck their emotions dry, stomp them into the ground, and not look back - leaving those who cared in a wreck.

He needs help, and IF you are every going to truly help him -- YOU will need help also. Again, I am not suggesting that you abandon him, just realize that he is going to do whatever it takes to continue to use until he gets professional, ongoing help - it is available, he just doesn't want to go there because the people he will be working with & seeing have all been down the path before him and can see him clearly for what he is - as they have all done the same thing. I am sure that the need to turn to these people terrifies him to the point of anger, when in truth it is really insecurity.

I am sure that you can find an AA number locally, if you call them, they will be able to put you in touch with the groups that will help those who are "fallout" from addicts like your friend. It is so worth the time to make the call and go to a meeting, you will see just how many of us are really out there.

Stacy

 

[runamuk]

Russ,

Stacy put it quite well. I am going to post below part of a post from another thread. My oldest son is an addict and we have been dealing with the fallout for going on 4 years................addicts are selfish, manipulative, and use the fact that you care to their advantage. My post was addressing tough love but really it is the same regardless of if it is a friend or a relation.

I am dealing with alot of what you are except my son only just turned 16 (spent a birthday in treatment and he spent his 15th in jail) ....it gets to a point where enough is enough and you can NOT lose the rest of the family unit. My son has been gone for almost 4 months he spent 60 days in jail and has been in inpatient for 60 days and he is about to transfer to a recovery house which will last anywhere from 30 days to 6 months. It is up to him it is his recovery but he cannot come home until he is willing to follow all of our rules.
I do want to say they call it tough love for a reason....this has been very hard and still is but our family is slowly healing and growing closer. Every time I feel like I am going to cave I think of Marty and it hardens my resolve to do whatever it takes for my son to not be the cause of that kind of pain. I know the pain this causes me the ache in my soul is nothing compared to what it would be if my son were the one that took Marty's sons life. The path my son had chosen was heading that direction, and I can only hope he learns from this, and we aren't too late.

One of the hardest things has been understanding that we cannot fix him, we are parents we want to protect and solve problems. In trying to do that we created a huge gap in our family it divides us all and it is slow going to put us back together. Slowly we are getting there but even now there are times where the hubby and I stand on opposite sides of an issue related to our son, and that is when it gets hard. There is a fine line between helping and enabling...................I hope you can find some help for yourself, if not for your friend.

Rori

 

[nootka]

I am so sorry for what you're going through, Russ.

Many of us have alcoholism/addiction in our lives. My mother was an addict, and not even her own children's well-being mattered to her. I truly believe she would have sold us for what she needed/wanted, if it had come to that. She died at 51 after starting to use IV drugs at 49.

We also have a friend that is doing a "Leaving Las Vegas"....it's hard to watch, but sometimes that's what we're forced to do. I know they don't feel like it, but they are victimizing everyone.

All you can do is offer support and the observation of reality.

Myself, I would not enable, though. Do not loan money, do not bail out, do not look the other way when they get into their car. If you cannot stop them from driving, phone them in to the police.

My husband also had a DUI/accident four years ago nearly in 2003, while I was pregnant with our third son. Up to that point, I seriously thought he was more sensible than that (to drink and drive). We don't drink a LOT, but we do on occasion, and that was one of those occasions. The huge mistake was that he was upset and wanted to get home fast, and drove himself. He left the road going 95 mph and totalled our 2003 F250. The police were there rather quickly as he'd been seen driving previous to that and called in.

It seemed like a disaster at the time, but my friend who drives a tow truck quickly helped me see the good side of it, and it really was a "good" thing though it cost us hugely in legal fees, humiliation and the like.

The long and short of it is that if he had killed, maimed, or otherwise disturbed ANY living thing (this was happening at 3:30 p.m. on a dark, rainy Dec. night, the last school day before Christmas Break...school buses were ON THE ROAD!!!! our lives would have never been the same, and more importantly, someone completely innocent would have been drawn into this stupid choice, by no fault of their own.

He completed the counseling required by the courts, and so far is still "behaving" and he knows where I stand on it. I will not hesitate to turn him in if I saw him drinking and driving. I know far too well what could happen.

I think it's hard for that compassion and empathy to come through the haze of addiction, the self-centeredness that is at the core of addiction.

He has to get help, but you can't force it on him. You don't have to enable, but for your own sake, step back and I do think the counseling might help you to better deal with the pain of witnessing his fall.

I hope he does not kill or hurt anyone, and if he does, may it only be himself.

Meantime, again, I am sorry for the pain you are experiencing, I know it all too well. What an awful thing to do to friends.

Liz M.

 

[Russ]

Thank You to each and everyone who posted.....I really mean it......it does help to hear others experiences. Stacy/Lisa I am glad you posted the options to get help.

No more enabling......no more getting sucked in the web of deception.

Posting the link to Marty's son's(Micheal's) page below.....I hope HE reads it.

Micheal's Website

 

[MyBarakah]

Hi Russ......

Since I know who you are speaking of....... but knowing that person and the type of person they are AND I know from hands ON..... My X was and STILL is a alcholic and DRIVES while drinking (a HUGE part of the reason I'm divorced!!)...... and my dad is a alcholic..... I myself am fine if I never have a drink of any alcohol. I may have one about once every six months or something....... But with personally living with a alcholoic I SOOOOO know the behavior....... And my X one time while we were first married was picked up for DUI..... Guess who got blamed for that one!!!!!!!!! ME! And then was peeved that I didn't have the cash to bail him out of jail! I was at home with our first child, who was a baby at the time! I "almost" divorced him after that incodent and poured all the beer out of the house down the drain in front of him! He was peeved! But I was MORE peeved so he just watched! But I should of left then........he was "good" for a while....but eventually went back.....

The BIGGEST thing I can say is that unless they admit they have a problem....... They will NEVER get better and usually gets worse until they kill themselves or someone else! My X would blaim everyone else for problems besides the alcohol (and still does!)........ He has NEVER to this day thought he was to blame for that!

But That person DOESN'T want help Russ! They only know how to function ONE WAY! :no:

 

[PinkStalkings]

Because the situation is still a very sore topic for me, please bare with me while I try to explain my insites on this. And only because of a request to contribute.

Aside from my father being an alcoholic, I dated one. In 2004 I was 18 and running my own show. I worked full time, busted my rear end to pay bills for my horses and was helping a friend with her life problems. I walked right into my own. A few drinks here and there blinded me from the severe drinking issue that my partner had. He drank alot more than I liked and once I was pregnant and not a party animal I realized I really hate the situation we're in. I cried, and cried and cried. Begged and Begged and Begged. Lied to my family about his problems and Asked his family for help. In 2005 I had my son. 8 lbs. 12 oz. 21 1/2 inches long. Aside from delivery complications the first year of his life was pretty typical - That of a mom working hard to raise a baby at a young age living with an alcoholic. Other problems started to stem up. 2 weeks before my son's first birthday I knew I was leaving, but with a birthday party planned I made the choice to stick it out. 1 week afterwards we packed our stuff and moved out.

I was told by my son's father that he'd do anything to be back with me, and that his drinking was ended, he wasn't partyin' with the band and that he was working really hard to excell at work and wanted to make things work.

Blindsided

I hit a tough patch in my life and was blindsided by what will be the worst thing to ever happen to me in my life. 10 am Saturday Morning May 26th 2007 my mother calls and alerts me his dad and Jacob have been in an accident. My mother is hysterical - I'm two hours south of my family. Side by side with my best friend and my first response is to hang up in disbelief. I'm hysterical and I decide to call a close friend. Maybe if I say it.. it makes it real? I tell her and she asks me if Jacob's dad had our family's old truck. I say yes and she tells me to sit down and explains what was all over the news but that it wasn't an accident. The state patrol is suspecting that his father was highly intoxicated and that he was driving the wrong direction on I-90 going on a camping trip I had NO idea about.

I'm 20 at the time and I'm thinking about my 21st birthday and his upcoming 2nd birthday when I have to reroute all my train of thoughts and learn the process of funeral/burial planning because my first and only child has been stolen from me and will never return.

The facts started rolling in. Speculation ended.. Jacob's dad had a .27 Blood Alcohol level. Nearly 1/3 of the blood in his body was Liquior. The truck was littered with them. He'd bumped a girl's bumper on the interstate and fled. Decided to change his plans and drove for 5 miles the wrong direction, three of which a state trooper followed and tried his hardest to stop him. My son is not the only loss. Christina R. Grimsley passed on and Sean Heldt is in a comma and may never recover.

I'm 21.. I celebrated my son's second birthday in a cemetary.

Drinking and Driving is an act of stupidity - Whether you are an alcoholic or not. I will not lie. I'm 21 and I go out and have a drink. I WALK home and make sure my friends know they are coming with me if they have not gotten a sober driver or have chosen to drink.

Jacob's dad had NO DUI's. A DUI is a sign of a problem. Typically being that a driver who gets one does it on the regular or is not a first time offender. I strongly feel that four DUI's later there is an issue.

I can't offer assistance on how to figure out how to help your friend because if I could have fixed this type of issue I'd still have my son calling my name throughout the house, tossing his sippy cup at me for another refill and Whining that he just wants 5 more years with his beloved binky.

Hate is a strong strong word. But I tell you.. Friend or Not.. a Drunk Driver to me isn't anything but someone with a premeditated plan to murder. Its this time, next time or maybe the time after. Just a matter of time before the unlucky person comes along to be their victim and if they can't understand that, well it might be because they're drunk. I HATE DRUNK DRIVERS.

 

[Russ]

Pinkstalkings, I have read your post 3 times......my deepest sympathy on the lose of infant son Jacob. It is very sad to hear your young son is gone.

Sorry just isn't enough to say.....I am at a lose for words. I do want to thank you for telling us all what happened. I do believe in my heart that by reading this it helps people everywhere by hearing what alcohol does when you drive......how it kills people...... ruins families.....breaks hearts of those left behind and changes lives forever.

Is that your son in your avatar?

Pinkstalkings, my prayers to you......please take care and stay strong. Life sure isn't fare...... :no:

 

[PinkStalkings]

Russ -

The avatar image is my son before he was 1 yr and I appreciate your words of kindness.

Liz

 

[Miniv]

Russ,

I hope you don't feel you've opened a can of worms by starting this thread, but it's been an educational one for us all.....

I wasn't going to comment, but ........ You have a friend. You care for him. With his drinking and driving 4 times (that he was caught!) he is on self-destruct mode. And he's also set to kill others and not care if he does, that's what addicts do.

What it comes down to, unless he's willing to get help for his alcoholism, you are condoning his behavior and illness. My suggestion and advice would be to tell him that unless he gets professional help you can no longer be close to him. Period. And he needs to prove himself too. Plus, if you ever see him drinking and getting into a vehicle, I'd call the police on him. You just may be saving both his life and someone else's. He may hate you for it initially, but it will be worth it in the long run.

Larry and I have had a little bit of experience dealing with a loved one who was an addict, but I'm not going to post about it here. If you want to, you can PM. I will share privately.

Blessings to you with however you decide to handle the situation.

MA

 

[Marty]

These are final thoughts from Michael himself:

Michael took a public stand against drugs and alcohol. He felt that no one makes you do these things so if you are addicted, you did it to yourself. He had no problem telling people he would not participate with it and told them to get away from him if they did it. He encouraged them to go get help and if they refused, he considered them LOOSERS. He refused to become part of their lives and be friends with them. My kid was very brave. And here's my famous last words for you Russ "Take a stand and stay there"

 

[Lisa-Ruff N Tuff Minis]

Pink Stalkings I have to say it took me a day till I could even re read your post I read it 3 times the first time was to much and I skipped alot of parts then the 2nd time it seemed unreal i had to be reading wrong the 3rd time... reality of what you wrote set it. Same thing happened with Martys post before....

To be so very young and have to go thru what you did the fact that you made thru the other side strong and here to even write about it.

What happened to you was truly one of my worst fears for my own children and x husband- I dont even have the words to tell you how sorry I am for your pain, how awed I am at your strength and how your story has touched my heart.

 

[Matt73]

If all else has failed, stop being friends with this person. Eventually, hopefully, something will click before they kill someone; hopefully they'll look around soon and realize they have no one left in their life and put two and two together. Easier said, than done I know. I have seen the ravages of drugs and alcohol on people's lives; I dated a cocaine addict for ten months and didn't have a clue (ahhh youth LOL). I sure know the signs now

:

P.S. Tough love is all that works now (no, ..."keeping drumming it into his head"). Addicts are liers. They say what you want to hear so they can keep getting what they want.

 

[susanne]

Russ,

You are such a good person, and obviously a true friend. I hope this doesn't disillusion you or cause you to be cynical in the future.

My cousin, a recovering alcoholic, told that while he was drinking, he was so consumed with self-hatred that he thought anyone who believed in him had to be a loser...a total fool.

In other words, your friendship cannot be appreciated as support; rather, you are seen as a sucker who falls for his lies.

For your own sake, you need to know that you are not being disloyal by backing away, but that you are a friend who will be there waiting when this person returns to his true self. That is when he will need friends who are NOT part of his former, drinking life.

 

[Willow Glen]

I'm sorry but there is NO excuse to drink and drive I have never ever drunk after having a drink and dont listen to other peoples excuses for it without getting angry I have felt the loss of someone being taken away from me for no reason but somones stupit, uncaring, selfish dont care attitude and there thoughts "it wont happen to me" attitude, If that person has been caught 4 times how many other times have they not been caught and been indangering other peoples lives, You need to tell ya friend that you cant stand buy and support such a stupid act that dosent need to happen they are the ones who let themselves do it and dont care what others think, if they did care they wouldnt do it and untill they sort there stuff out they can just leave you out of it and once THEY DECIDE to sort it then you can be there for them, but sadly it sounds like they dont think they have a problem otherwise they wouldnt blame others for there actions. I'm sorry if I sound mean I'm not really but what they have been doing is so wrong and uncalled for, Kick them to the curve untill they sort there #@%~. :ugh:

 

[AppyLover2]

Russ, others have recommended it and I must repeat what they said. Please check out Al-anon. My first husband was a drunk...my second, an alcoholic. Al-anon helped me tremendously.

 

[Minimor]

I'm sorry but there is NO excuse to drink and drive I have never ever drunk after having a drink and dont listen to other peoples excuses for it without getting angry I have felt the loss of someone being taken away from me for no reason but somones stupit, uncaring, selfish dont care attitude and there thoughts "it wont happen to me" attitude, If that person has been caught 4 times how many other times have they not been caught and been indangering other peoples lives, You need to tell ya friend that you cant stand buy and support such a stupid act that dosent need to happen they are the ones who let themselves do it and dont care what others think, if they did care they wouldnt do it and untill they sort there stuff out they can just leave you out of it and once THEY DECIDE to sort it then you can be there for them, but sadly it sounds like they dont think they have a problem otherwise they wouldnt blame others for there actions. I'm sorry if I sound mean I'm not really but what they have been doing is so wrong and uncalled for, Kick them to the curve untill they sort there #@%~.

This pretty much sums up what I think of the situation too. You've tried to direct this person toward help; this person doesn't appear to want to get help there isn't much else to be done I'm afraid. He is an alcoholic, and a foolish one at that--I've known some alcoholics who at least had the sense to not drink and drive. Mind you, some of them had to lose their license once before they figured it out, but after the first time they figured it out & either call a taxi or call a friend for a ride home.

For the person who said that if you aren't a part of the solution then you are a part of the problem--I'm sorry, but IMO that phrase gets used to death. Sometimes those words are perfectly true, but not in a case like this. I'm very tired of everyone blaming their problems on someone else, and that is exactly what that phrase does. It shifts a portion of the blame onto the non-drinking friend in this case, and that friend is not to blame for any of these DUI charges.

I am not my brother's keeper, nor anyone else's keeper either. Unless I am supplying an alcoholic with booze, or encouraging him to go to the bar, or refusing to give him a ride home & telling him to drive himself, no matter how many drinks he's had, no, I am not a part of the problem. If I have suggest treatment & he has refused then the problem is his and not mine. I cannot drag him into the treatment facility. I will walk away and have no part of any of it. It is not my fault he is drinking, it is not my fault that he chooses to drive drunk.

Here in Manitoba we have some of the toughest drunk driving laws in the country. It's nothing to take lightly. If I were hosting a party & you got drunk & drove home & were in an accident, they can come after me for 1)supplying you with booze 2)allowing you to drive away from my home. If I were to drive you home & leave you at your house, and you then went back outside, got into your car & drove off & caused an accident--they could still come after me, because I took you home & left you there & didn't supervise you the rest of the night. I personally think that is taking it too far, but that's the way it works. So you know what? If you want to drink and do something stupid, like getting into a vehicle & driving, I want no part of it. You are not welcome to drink in my home, or even in my company--I do not want to be around you if you are drinking. I cannot stop you from drinking, but I can avoid having you drink in my presence. I can certainly avoid taking the blame for your stupidity. That's what I would have to say to this friend if he were my friend.

 

[HGFarm]

Russ,

I feel badly for you. You are obviously a caring person and your feelings of disgust and anger are certainly normal.

I was also married to an alcoholic. His mother and step dad were both alcoholics as are is sister and brother. One sister never did drink.

I will tell you from my own life experiences that NOTHING that you say or do is going to make this person straighten up, or realize they have a problem, or just up and quit. Just imagine. They have been CAUGHT four times, but I can tell you they have probably been lucky it has not been more than that, or that they have not already killed someone on the road. And it's a matter of time.

As much as you try, you cannot change someone else or make them see what is easy for you to see. You cannot be responsible for other people and what they do. Preaching, teaching or nagging will not do it.

Personally, this does not sound like a person I would 'hang out' with or want around to pull my life down. They are on a downward spiral and apparently have NOT learned a thing at all. I doubt that jail time would help them either. They are obviously pretty adept at lying and hiding things, and will just get better at it as time goes by.

I would go on about your life, as theirs does not sound like it is on a road to accomplishments or anything constructive. And some folks NEVER change- and things are always someone else's fault and there is a list of excuses longer than your arm. How many times have they lied to you now? Isn't a friendship built on trust? How would you ever believe them again?? They are not the type of person who is really a friend, or a responsible human being in any way, and it will not end on a good note.

For the others who have lost family or friends here due to drunk drivers, I cannot imagine what you are going through at all, but the anger, pain and absolutely broken hearts is just overwhelming. I am so sorry, and wish that things were different.

Making your friend read Michaels page or this post will not matter. That will never happen to THEM, and they will feel you are preaching at what? They have no problem, after all!! They dont care, and they wont change. It is not nice, but it is reality. I would just break it off- sounds like a one sided friendship to me as friends dont lie to another like you have been lied to.