For discussion: AMHR: Ponies being

[Buckskin gal]

Exactly! So are the miniature horses being judged fairly and can we really breed for the typiness of a certain breed and win with the most correct of that breed or are will breeders just going to continue to breed for what a judge likes if they want to win? KNow you don't have the answer it is just something to consider. Mary

I sure agree that a miniature horse can represent any large breed of horse and therefore a miniature horse judge would need to know the breed standards of many different breeds...and yet there is a standard of perfection for a miniature horse which is in the rule book on page 240.

Yes true BUT Just how many Judges are card caring Breed cards?? I know my friend ans his X wife is but they are also very exspensive...You get a Judge for a one day show for 250 dollars I can just bet you they only have miniature cards and no other BREED cards....And that is what you have to find out when showing just which judges KNOW what to look for and how many care about getting knowledge of other breeds as well...

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[horsefeather]

Shoot! I hit the wrong button!! Anyway, we are aware that it is a Height Division. However, the truth is that the Miniatures are carrying the Shetlands at the shows! Now that said, I want to state that I, too, like the more refined look of the Classic Shetland! (Sorry, but the Moderns..ugh!) I was very upset that our registry chose to quit giving our queens, ambassadors and youth money. My gosh, ANYONE will tell you the youth is our future! Where in the world is their minds?? And turn around and offer to give away $10,000 to shetland!! Sorry, folks, that just AIN'T right! And as far as hoping to get more 'movement' by breeding the hackney in so chains, etc. won't be needed. That's a laugh. Humans will NEVER be satisfied with a natural anything! There will always be those who will 'do whatever it takes' to win, regardless of the method or feelings of the horse! I know, I've seen it with my own eyes. And just so you know that I am capable of entering this conversation, we have raised, trained and shown minis for the past 12+ years and have seen the change, as have the others. (We also have shetlands)

One thing no one has mentioned, which is the MOST important complaint to me is the temperment! Now I know (as I've talked to some of you and read other's comments) that some will say their 'pony is the sweetest, most gentle' horse they have ever had. Well, I'm sure there are a FEW of those out there....but the majority I have seen (will admit, have only seen most at shows, but lots and lots of shows) DO NOT have the sweet, gentle, loving disposition of minis. You put that hot blood in there, you're going to lose the most important thing about minis. In the 2005 rulebook, on page 240 under Standard of Perfection it says...."The disposition should be eager and friendly, not skittish." Whoops, sure doesn't fit most shetlands I've seen!!

I also feel that our registry has gone the extra step adding the new class of horses because some 'big, important' shetland breeders are having their shetlands go over the shetland height, so the answer was to 'put in yet another registry.' What's next, when those go over, guess they'll just add another class for them.

If you have read all the way down to here, I will close by adding that I am glad to see a LITTLE refinement in our minis, but I'm afraid it will go overboard.

Pam

 

[susanne]

Margo...I was sloppy when I wrote that...my thought is that recent developmentssuch as fascilitating the double-registry of Shetlands, have been wise...and actually, I'd have to give breeders, exhibitors, and the marketplace more of the credit than the registry. I didn't mean to suggest that AMHR had this in mind when starting the registry.

 

[Buckskin gal]

Very well said. My minis sell well because they do have wonderful temperments...easily trainable, intelligence and trusting. No way would I want to bring in the hot blood which does not make for a good all around mini....too often I have seen it is the sweet dispositions of our minis that draw people into them. Not saying there aren't Shetlands that aren't sweet or that there are minis that aren't high strung..... Mary

Shoot!  I hit the wrong button!!  Anyway, we are aware that it is a Height Division.  However, the truth is that the Miniatures are carrying the Shetlands at the shows!  Now that said, I want to state that I, too, like the more refined look of the Classic Shetland! (Sorry, but the Moderns..ugh!)  I was very upset that our registry chose to quit giving our queens, ambassadors and youth money.  My gosh, ANYONE will tell you the youth is our future!  Where in the world is their minds??  And turn around and offer to give away $10,000 to shetland!!  Sorry, folks, that just AIN'T right!  And as far as hoping to get more 'movement' by breeding the hackney in so chains, etc. won't be needed.  That's a laugh.  Humans will NEVER be satisfied with a natural anything!  There will always be those who will 'do whatever it takes' to win, regardless of the method or feelings of the horse!  I know, I've seen it with my own eyes.  And just so you know that I am capable of entering this conversation, we have raised, trained and shown minis for the past 12+ years and have seen the change, as have the others.  (We also have shetlands)One thing no one has mentioned, which is the MOST important complaint to me is the temperment!  Now I know (as I've talked to some of you and read other's comments) that some will say their 'pony is the sweetest, most gentle' horse they have ever had.  Well, I'm sure there are a FEW of those out there....but the majority I have seen (will admit, have only seen most at shows, but lots and lots of shows) DO NOT have the sweet, gentle, loving disposition of minis.  You put that hot blood in there, you're going to lose the most important thing about minis.  In the 2005 rulebook, on page 240 under Standard of Perfection it says...."The disposition should be eager and friendly, not skittish."  Whoops, sure doesn't fit most shetlands I've seen!!

I also feel that our registry has gone the extra step adding the new class of horses because some 'big, important' shetland breeders are having their shetlands go over the shetland height, so the answer was to 'put in yet another registry.'  What's next, when those go over, guess they'll just add another class for them.

If you have read all the way down to here, I will close by adding that I am glad to see a LITTLE refinement in our minis, but I'm afraid it will go overboard.

Pam

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[jdhand]

Well we have had the same thing happen while showing the larger miniatures. Many people are showing the Arenosa Shetlands in AMHR and they are truly beautiful animals. We still show against them and have even considered breeding some of our broodmares with an arenosa shetland. I think we will see this breeding more and more and the result will be more refined miniature horses. For me I don't have a problem because I like the B size miniatures. It will be interesting to see what happens at Nationals. We get beat by the shetlands too, but I can't say anything because they are truly exceptional, or at least the ones that have beat us are.

Dinda Hand

Morning Mist Minis

www.morningmistminis.com

 

[hhpminis]

As far as being able to show both ASPC and AMHR and yes some AMHA.

Most of my shetlands are under 36". If you have watched pony classes it would not take long to realize that a 36" pony would have a tough time competing with a 42" pony. It would be like trying to show your 28" mini against a 34". It is very hard to compete.

This is really no different than a mini registering into the Pinto registry and showing at their shows.

We can debate this until we all are blue in the face. As many have said, it is a height registry and if I wanted to show a Clydesdale that could measure in I could.

Why is no one arguing that the now popular miniature Overo should not be able to show against the other minis? Or the Appaloosa?

Bottom line is, if you are getting beat in the ring, either stick with what you have because you believe in it, or change your breeding program.

 

[runamuk]

Good grief now all shetlands are "hot" bloods? Puleez most shetlands still make wonderful childrens show animals and I am sorry I have seen some pretty "hot" if not downright high strung "straight" miniatures that no way would I want to own.........

Regardless of what motives are behind the ASPC/AMHR/ASPR/NSPR and all of their divisions (I assume based on the quantity of registries they have created money is the ultimate goal) I do not see how outside blood will be the downfall of miniature horses?...The blood is already in there so even if the registry closed good breeders who pay attention to type and take risks with intensive inbreeding could and would still create the look and there would still be the ability to create whole families of hot blooded flighty horses........I am sorry but you cannot blame the Shetlands for what breeders choose to breed and what judges choose to pin..........if you don't like what is winning then don't breed for that or just don't show the breed circuit show CDE or open or 4h or ffa or any number of other show circuits...........

And if we are supposed to be showing for the "sheer" pleasure and fun of it why the heck would it matter what is winning

I mean your saying your there for the FUN not to win

 

[horsehug]

Good post, Runamuk

I am happy to know my minis have Shetland blood in them from the Gold Melody lines in my Buckeroo bred ones, to the King Larigo lines in my Bar Bar E ones and others too I am sure!

As a matter of fact, one of the stallions at the farm where I bought most of my original minis and often have gone back to, had a triple registered horse ..... AMHA/AMHR/ASPC back 17 years ago when I first got into minis. His was not for show purposes but so he could breed this little guy to his AMHA mares and his AMHR mares and his Shetland mares. I am sad that when this farm got their horses bred down to mini size they did not continue their shetland papers. It was not because they were ashamed like some were, but because it was expensive to keep them in so many registries. But I know that some of my horses could be registered all three ways if the papers had been kept up.

And I would love it if they were all three. I know they are genetically

Susan O.

 

[Dona]

Shoot!  I hit the wrong button!!  Anyway, we are aware that it is a Height Division.  However, the truth is that the Miniatures are carrying the Shetlands at the shows!  Now that said, I want to state that I, too, like the more refined look of the Classic Shetland! (Sorry, but the Moderns..ugh!)  I was very upset that our registry chose to quit giving our queens, ambassadors and youth money.  My gosh, ANYONE will tell you the youth is our future!  Where in the world is their minds??  And turn around and offer to give away $10,000 to shetland!!  Sorry, folks, that just AIN'T right!  And as far as hoping to get more 'movement' by breeding the hackney in so chains, etc. won't be needed.  That's a laugh.  Humans will NEVER be satisfied with a natural anything!  There will always be those who will 'do whatever it takes' to win, regardless of the method or feelings of the horse!  I know, I've seen it with my own eyes.  And just so you know that I am capable of entering this conversation, we have raised, trained and shown minis for the past 12+ years and have seen the change, as have the others.  (We also have shetlands)One thing no one has mentioned, which is the MOST important complaint to me is the temperment!  Now I know (as I've talked to some of you and read other's comments) that some will say their 'pony is the sweetest, most gentle' horse they have ever had.  Well, I'm sure there are a FEW of those out there....but the majority I have seen (will admit, have only seen most at shows, but lots and lots of shows) DO NOT have the sweet, gentle, loving disposition of minis.  You put that hot blood in there, you're going to lose the most important thing about minis.  In the 2005 rulebook, on page 240 under Standard of Perfection it says...."The disposition should be eager and friendly, not skittish."  Whoops, sure doesn't fit most shetlands I've seen!!

I also feel that our registry has gone the extra step adding the new class of horses because some 'big, important' shetland breeders are having their shetlands go over the shetland height, so the answer was to 'put in yet another registry.'  What's next, when those go over, guess they'll just add another class for them.

If you have read all the way down to here, I will close by adding that I am glad to see a LITTLE refinement in our minis, but I'm afraid it will go overboard.

Pam

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[Tapestry Minis]

Well not that I believe in this but if someone were to argue that humans came from apes then should we just call ourselves APES?

Edited to add: Yes I know some people still act like them but that's beside the point

Yes minis have evolved from shetlands but you get so many degrees of separation then it evolves into it's own being. No longer that of what it came from. The genes from the decendants become diluted.

IMO, unfortunately, the only way you'll get that to be written in stone and have minis become their own "pedigreed breed" is if there is a registry started that requires horses that are from XXX amount degrees of separation from XXX blood and determine which lines are that of "Miniature Horses". As I'm sure it is with shetlands (although I have no experience with them) I'm sure there are certain stipulations to register a horse as a shetland. The minis would have to do the same. Then you might get your seperation....but who knows if that'll ever happen.

 

[Belinda]

  I was very upset that our registry chose to quit giving our queens, ambassadors and youth money.  My gosh, ANYONE will tell you the youth is our future!  Where in the world is their minds??  And turn around and offer to give away $10,000 to shetland!!

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Pam,

First let me say that I know they cut back on the funds for the Jr.Ambassador and the princess.. But the Ambassador and the Queen still are recieving their funds from ASPC/AMHR...

Now may I address the $10,000 issue, Actually that was done WAY before the cut back on the Royality program. And the main reason for that was to promote more riding of the Shetland Pony and another market to go to , It does not always have to be about OUR shows.. And you know what else ,, NO ONE has won it yet. So therefore we have NOT Given anything away...

Ok now for all those that think the Shetlands have bad Dispositions and are wild and crazy and so on ,, Please I have a barn full and they act the same as all the mini's in my barn.. You can spook the gentlest horse of any breed , after all they are a flight animal . Not a Puppy..

Next for the comment about the Over Division and why it was formed !! Believe me it was not so that Shetland breeders would have a place to put there small Shetlands .. !!!! It was formed so that the MINI breeders would have a place to put their BIG MINI'S... And I do know this for a fact as I was there when MR. Huston and My Father discussed what people were going to do with their oversize mini's !!!! And then the B divison was born.. I still have the letter that Bob sent to My Dad on the subject..

And I can also shed a different light on why the bottom fell out back in the 60's and it not the reasons given in previous post, but to involved and off subject to go into here..

But I will say if we all don't stop the bickering back and forth on who and what supports this or that and how many of one or the other show at shows vs. who doesn't , You all will sure find out why the Market fell out !!!

You know most people I meet have the Mini's and /or Shetlands for the pure enjoyment of owning a small equine, and all this

Starts making it not fun anymore, and then you start loosing people because they will find something else to do..

I hate to tell you all but the Shetlands have been showing as Mini's for many many years, it is just lately that people have starting saying the dreaded S word as it use to be called..

People would be surprised as to how many AMHA and AMHR National Champions were Shetlands or at least 1/2 shetland many many years ago..

Mr. Vern Brewer was a very very big Shetland breeder back in the Hayday and had some of the Top Shetlands in the Country as he did with his mini's .. Do you think one day he just loaded up all his shetland mares and sent them away and bought MIN"s ???

Thanks for letting me vent just a little .. I love my Shetlands and I love all 100 + Mini's I have so this is not written to beat down one or the other..

Belinda

JMHO

 

[Frankie]

My original thread was speaking of those horses that are double registered. I was not specific enough and thank you to those who picked up on the fact, that was what I was trying to say. My fault for not saying exactly that.

I am curious, to those who breed and show shetlands. If they are registered both, why do you show AMHR shows? I do understand they have every right in the world to do so, I am just curious. Honest, sincere question.

Is AMHR more competitive? More horses in shows? Closer to where you live? Cheaper? Or????? Just wondering.

I would also like to say that there have been some wonderful points of view added to this thread, in both directions and I think it is a good learning experience. I have learned a number of things about shetlands I had no idea about. Thanks for giving your thoughts!

 

[keeperofthehorses]

This thread immediately brought to mind something I read in "Our Shetland Heritage" by Scott Uzzel. I hope he doesn't mind me quoting the book; this is in the chapter regarding Curtiss-Frisco Pete:

"1956 saw Pete take his third straight Congress crown and at an American Shetland Pony Club directors meeting, one dour soul proposed that the club bar Frisco Pete from further competition at the Shetland Congress, after his third straight grand championship.

"(ASPC President Harry) Kilkelly had suffered the defeat of his own leading show stallion in that victory by 'Pete; but he instantly rejected such chicanery. 'You don't legislate a champion off his throne; he snorted to the 'cry baby! You try to beat him the next time!'"

I have other thoughts, but this pretty much sums it up. I will say that I think that some of the comments made about Shetlands, Moderns in particular, come across as quite unsportsmanlike.

Suzanne

(I don't own any minis, I own Foundation Shetlands)

 

[kaykay]

for me i am more experienced (if you can call it that LOL) at showing miniatures then i am shetlands. Some people dont realize how hard it is for a newer handler to show both pony and mini. We have done it for a couple years with Kyles pony patches showing shetland and then showing the minis at the same show. It can get very confusing as they are not shown the same way. Especially a modern pleasure pony.

Also ill be brutually honest. There are not in this area many ponies showing up at the shows. At least there werent in Patches division. Its no fun to show and only have one or two other horses in the class. And youth?? ugh kyle rarely had competition in youth with his pony. He quit showing showmanship with her as there were NEVER ANY other entries. Yeah he always got the blue ribbon but so what?? The most fun we had was showing her liberty because that class actually had alot of entries

So for us we would rather show in the over division. I love the 34-38" horses wether they are shetland, mini or a mix of both!

 

[shminifancier]

Is AMHR more competitive? More horses in shows? Closer to where you live? Cheaper? Or????? Just wondering.

Well if it weren't for the AMHR and its registry of WAY more minis then Shetlands.. My idea would be that if they couldn't show they might as well shut done the Shetland registry part Because it is that AMHR Registry that is holding up the low end of the Shetland registry and keeping it afloat.. I would like to see ALL of them Pull there own weight and in there own registry not affiliated with the AMHR but that will never happen because the show ponies and Shetland division would fold up...

 

[Lisa-Ruff N Tuff Minis]

  I was very upset that our registry chose to quit giving our queens, ambassadors and youth money.  My gosh, ANYONE will tell you the youth is our future!  Where in the world is their minds??  And turn around and offer to give away $10,000 to shetland!!

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Pam,

First let me say that I know they cut back on the funds for the Jr.Ambassador and the princess.. But the Ambassador and the Queen still are recieving their funds from ASPC/AMHR...

Now may I address the $10,000 issue, Actually that was done WAY before the cut back on the Royality program. And the main reason for that was to promote more riding of the Shetland Pony and another market to go to , It does not always have to be about OUR shows.. And you know what else ,, NO ONE has won it yet. So therefore we have NOT Given anything away...

Ok now for all those that think the Shetlands have bad Dispositions and are wild and crazy and so on ,, Please I have a barn full and they act the same as all the mini's in my barn.. You can spook the gentlest horse of any breed , after all they are a flight animal . Not a Puppy..

Next for the comment about the Over Division and why it was formed !! Believe me it was not so that Shetland breeders would have a place to put there small Shetlands .. !!!! It was formed so that the MINI breeders would have a place to put their BIG MINI'S... And I do know this for a fact as I was there when MR. Huston and My Father discussed what people were going to do with their oversize mini's !!!! And then the B divison was born.. I still have the letter that Bob sent to My Dad on the subject..

And I can also shed a different light on why the bottom fell out back in the 60's and it not the reasons given in previous post, but to involved and off subject to go into here..

But I will say if we all don't stop the bickering back and forth on who and what supports this or that and how many of one or the other show at shows vs. who doesn't , You all will sure find out why the Market fell out !!!

You know most people I meet have the Mini's and /or Shetlands for the pure enjoyment of owning a small equine, and all this

Starts making it not fun anymore, and then you start loosing people because they will find something else to do..

I hate to tell you all but the Shetlands have been showing as Mini's for many many years, it is just lately that people have starting saying the dreaded S word as it use to be called..

People would be surprised as to how many AMHA and AMHR National Champions were Shetlands or at least 1/2 shetland many many years ago..

Mr. Vern Brewer was a very very big Shetland breeder back in the Hayday and had some of the Top Shetlands in the Country as he did with his mini's .. Do you think one day he just loaded up all his shetland mares and sent them away and bought MIN"s ???

Thanks for letting me vent just a little .. I love my Shetlands and I love all 100 + Mini's I have so this is not written to beat down one or the other..

Belinda

JMHO

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Thank you belinda for your insight and logic!

 

[dannigirl]

We started with minis and love showing and working with them. We now also have foundation shetlands. Most are also amhr registered and we love showing and working with them also. At this time, we only have one gelding that we show as both a foundation and a mini. We took him took Congress and he did very well--in fact he took grand in his division. We have every intention of taking him to the mini Nationals and have hopes that he will do well in the over division gelding classes out there. There have been people all through the years that have given up the shetland papers for one reason or another. I heard about some that did it because they did not want to have a shetland on the place. Only minis. Out of site--out of mind? I don't understand. Why do I show a single animal in both aspc & amhr? Mostly because there are many divisions in amhr and he fits in one that we have no mini in right now and we do not have a lot of young shetlands to choose from at the moment. We hope to have him driving next year and then he may not show in halter anymore. We may show him enough to get him into the hall of fame in foundation and he already has halter hall of fame in amhr. Why would we want to do both. For the same reason many people do things--because we can if we want to. Oh, and I have a couple of minis in my barn that I will not show against him, mostly because they just may beat him. They are both amhr national champions and in halter hall of fame and both in driving hall of fame. I do not think that a mini cannot beat a pony, by any stretch of the imagination. All things being equal, it is still what a judge prefers--but then, that could also be color or height or many things that make that little difference.

Angie

 

[Getitia]

I am curious, to those who breed and show shetlands. If they are registered both, why do you show AMHR shows? I do understand they have every right in the world to do so, I am just curious. Honest, sincere question.Is AMHR more competitive? More horses in shows? Closer to where you live? Cheaper? Or????? Just wondering.

Remember the chestnut stallion in my previous post - he was amhr only -an oversize amha horse. We had two offspring by him out of AMHR B division mares who went over 38 - (he had offspring that stayed under 34 as well).

As we know, whenever you are breeding for 36 to 38 inch miniatures - just like when you breed for 33 to 34 inch miniatures, well Mother nature often dictates they will not stay within those ranges - either high or low. Many have written to discuss what happens when an AMHR mini exceeds 38 - well it seemed a shame to me to suddenly have a "grade pony". The ASPC aspect allows a place to show and maintain registration should the horse outgrow his amhr papers. Almost the same reason so many AMHA people like AMHR - it gives them a place to show their oversize AMHA horses

Another important thing to add - just because someone says it is a shetland, does not automatically mean it is good or desirable from a breeding perspective.

 

[Buckskin gal]

Lisa, I really am trying to understand what you have said below but yet having a problem with some of it. Perhaps if you have some time, you could explain so I can understand. From what Frankie said, I understood that she thinks a Shetland and a Miniature are different but I undersatnd you to say that they are one and the same because you say you disagree with her. Now, granted, you may have meant something else, not sure, but I too believe a

Shetland and a Miniature are not one and the same thing. There are Miniatures that are Shetlands but not every Miniature is a Shetland...not one and the same. A Miniature can be a Shetland but not all Miniatures are Shetlands. [having a little Shetland blood in them is not enought to make them Shetlands. The analogy of the poodles is foggy to me also because we aren't dealing with purebreds with either Miniatures or American Shetlands...they have mixed breeding in them.

True any horse under a certain size is considered a pony but not every Miniature is a Shetland and can be far different from a Shetland. Maybe the American Shetland and some MIniature horses both oiginated from Shetlands but if we look at it with open eyes we know neither are pure Shetland and are definitely not one and the same.

And to others:

I think these discussions are very worthwhile because they can clarify things for people. I don't see these discussions as fights or anything negative because something good can come out of them if we allow it. Just because there are different opinions doesn't make it a fight ...discussions will not destroy a breed of horses even if it is only a height breed. And any one who feels a discussion is not for them, they have the choice to not become a part of them.

I think any person knows that each person can breed or have which they like best, be it Shetland, Miniature/Morgans Miniature/ Arabians, Miniature/Draft, Miniature Shetlands or what ever. As long as they are bred to a standard of perfection, they each should stand a chance at winning in the ring if the judge uses a standard of perfection to judge by instead of merely choosing what he/she likes best. The BEST should be the one that comes closest to the Standard of Perfection for the type it represents and our /standard of perfection does refer to "type" of horse represented. I say this only because that is what I see it as and yet understand that others see it differently and that is fine too. Mary

I don't think there is any disagreement, a pony/Shetland is different than an actual miniature horse.

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well here I think you are wrong. There is sure disagreement with me

A pony and a mini are the same thing first off any horse under 14.2 no matter what they breed is a pony

second.. if i took a say purebred poodles and decided they weren't selling well so i would market them under a new name and called them tables...

well it wouldn't matter if those purebred poodles were then bred to smaller poodles and i still called them tables and had 6 generations heck 20 generations of my papers saying they were purebred tables.. while that may be fact it doesn't change the fact that bottom line they are purebred poodles.

Minis or midget ponies which then became miniature horses were a brilliant marketing plan in a pony market that was bombing.

I hear often they are different they were started with minis but somehow even though being bred to each other with there pony blood they lost that along the way

OK now that said.. a good horse will win period I think personally not to be harsh but here goes (take the fact i haven't slept into consideration here)

But I have seen some horses without pony papers win and some with pony papers win and in most cases bottom line in that moment when the judge was looking the horse that won was better then the ones that didn't

JMO anyway

and really all I can say is for those who now say they dont want to show against papered ponies.. well all i can say is start a new registry- as there are papered ponies in both AMHA and AMHR and they meet the height requirement of our HEIGHT ONLY breed- and bottom line is if they are in height they will be at our shows period and have every right to be shown there- they will be there they have been there for years as well.

it is one more excuse for people to say they aren't winning and one more place to put the blame

A judge cant see papers as the horse walks into the ring... some may or may not have "pony" papers

A shetland is shown very different at halter then a mini is - and bottom line to me is if your (my) horses are being consistently beat then It is time for me anyway to take a good hard long look at my own breeding program and see what it is lacking

But I have seen some horses without pony papers win and some with pony papers win and in most cases bottom line in that moment when the judge was looking the horse that won was better then the ones that didn't

JMO anyway

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[Frankie]

For those who show and breed shetlands, I for one appreciate your comments and offering a different thought to the thread. May not agree with all said, but I surely appreciate your adding comments on the breed, things we do not know. Thank you

Help me to understand.

Outgrow AMHA, you go to AMHR, if registered.

Outgrow AMHR, go to ?????? if registered?????

If not registered, AMHR is done?????