Anderson or Parelli

[shalakominiatureshowhorses]

Clinton Anderson is my role model

I love watching him on his show on RFD TV and i so badly want to go watch his walkabout tours! I have never seen Parelli, going to go watch him now on Youtube......

 

[lucky seven]

I would really like to watch Clinton Anderson also. It was strange re-reading these posts from last year. I thought I had solved the food aggression problems but they are back. I had so much trouble grooming him today that my hubby said it's finally time to find him a new home. He suggested that I find a safe, sane older riding horse but I think I'm going to stay mini but take my time and find a suitable match. I didn't do my homework when I picked out seven, had never been around a mini before and thought he was darn cute.

 

[lilnickers]

I suggest you start from scratch. If you have a round pen or small paddock, free lunge him, keeping him away from you. Keep him moving. Have a lunge whip or buggy whip maybe with a plastic bag tied on the end. Only raise it when he tries to stop or crowd you. This is teaching him to listen to you. It may take 15-20 min.or more, but eventually he will drop his head and "lick his lips". This means you have his attention....and he is understanding that you are speaking horse language. When he displays this, stop, drop the whip/line and turn slightly away. If he understands...he will stop and come to you. Then you pet his forehead and take a step...he should follow you. I have done this with several horses and it is simply AMAZING. It is actually horse language

From this point you will receive more respect as your horse will see you as his leader and protector.

If he does not come to you.....send him back out free lunging and wait again for the signs. Good luck with Seven.

By the way, this method is called "Join-up" from Monty Roberts. He has a few books and DVDs. I have read his books, watched his tape and he appears on the Horse Racing Channel sometimes doing clinics. You would enjoy Monty and his methods, which are probably similar to CA.

 

[Knottymare]

I suggest you start from scratch. If you have a round pen or small paddock, free lunge him, keeping him away from you. Keep him moving. Have a lunge whip or buggy whip maybe with a plastic bag tied on the end. Only raise it when he tries to stop or crowd you. This is teaching him to listen to you. It may take 15-20 min.or more, but eventually he will drop his head and "lick his lips". This means you have his attention....and he is understanding that you are speaking horse language. When he displays this, stop, drop the whip/line and turn slightly away. If he understands...he will stop and come to you. Then you pet his forehead and take a step...he should follow you. I have done this with several horses and it is simply AMAZING. It is actually horse language

From this point you will receive more respect as your horse will see you as his leader and protector.

If he does not come to you.....send him back out free lunging and wait again for the signs. Good luck with Seven.

By the way, this method is called "Join-up" from Monty Roberts. He has a few books and DVDs. I have read his books, watched his tape and he appears on the Horse Racing Channel sometimes doing clinics. You would enjoy Monty and his methods, which are probably similar to CA.

We have a lot of good old hands like Monty Roberts and Tom Dorrance to thank for what we now refer to as "natural" horsemanship. It's mostly common sense unless you don't speak horse. HAHAHAHA. That's right. we has humans don't naturally speak horse. some of us come by it more naturally than others. Some of those happen to be gifted with the talent to teach as well.

There are a few things that I think PP has done a good job with. Laugh if you want but the concept of horsenalities (putting horse personalities into quadrants based on reactivity and curiosity, energy levels and the way they think) was brilliant. For a person learning to speak the language of horses, understanding not only your horses natural way of thinking and being but also the appropriate way to respond to THAT particular horse can mean the difference between success and failure.

It also helps to know that some horses do not click with some people and vice versa. A true trainer knows how to adapt and adjust to each horse but the average backyard horse owner/breeder who also works a full time job often times goes about their activities with their horses with nothing more than their busy schedule in mind.

It does each of us good to slow down, remember that each of our horses is unique and every interaction with them IS a training opportunity. What you do with it is up to you. Make it positive!

 

[lucky seven]

I really like seven, but agree that maybe we are not a match made in heaven. He probably would shine with someone else. That's why I haven't gone the "trainer" route. He would be great for someone else, then back to the same old for me. Total lack of respect. You either have it or don't. With another mini I know I wouldn't make the same mistakes as I see Seven as a learning experience. But with winter coming on, he will be staying with me. I don't want to have to worry if he has proper shelter and feed and is cold or hungry. He is so smart that I read in some other posts that clicker training is good to keep the mind active. That is something I will work with him over the winter and see what happens. That's why I call myself "Lucky Seven" because I feel lucky to have him. I love Monte Roberts, his join up really works. Since the others receive more media space, its easy to forget that he was a leader in the NH methods.

 

[chandab]

I know you've been at this awhile, but I still say, don't give up hope.

It took my stallion 18 months to stop thinking I was a pony-eating monster, while he's still always on, he respects me.

 

[wingnut]

A true trainer knows how to adapt and adjust to each horse but the average backyard horse owner/breeder who also works a full time job often times goes about their activities with their horses with nothing more than their busy schedule in mind.

This is definitely something I struggle with as a complete beginner when it comes to training a horse. I also have to work really hard to be patient. My husband, on the other hand, is amazingly patient and gets faster/better results. And he "doesn't like" horses. Hah!

As a Clinton Anderson fan, I really think its important to recognize he KNOWS he didn't come up with his techniques on his own. He completely admits that he is using the methods that he was taught by his mentors in Australia and still others when he came to the States. He just found a way to teach it well to others, especially those of us who aren't well versed in the horse area but want to get there. He is a masterful marketer and salesman. It helps that he's cute to some of us, has a wicked sense of humor and speaks a language that most "get" without having to try too hard. I will also say that I haven't studied any of the other popular trainers out there to any great extent because I truly "get" what CA is teaching and think it works for me and my horses. In the end, that's what you have to strive for.

 

[WashingtonCowgirl]

lucky seven, I know what you are going through. My full sized mare was 9 months when my parents bought her for me (I had just turned 8). She is by one of the most aggressive studs in the area, and she got her daddies temperament Talk about being thrown into the world of horse training head first! When I was about 16, at this point sick of trying EVERYTHING anyone could think of (like trying to join up for literally 2 hours with no success), I "threw" her, had my knee on her neck so she couldn't get up and just rubbed her everywhere. I kept her down for about 15 minutes or so, let her up and was able to join up in about 15 minutes. She has been relatively easy to train since, though she has her moments. She is now 12 and ridable. I wouldn't throw a beginner on her but she is a great horse now. I'm glad I didn't give in when I wanted too.

Some just need a come to Jesus moment, and it might take more for some horses to get that message.

 

[Knottymare]

lucky seven, I know what you are going through. My full sized mare was 9 months when my parents bought her for me (I had just turned 8). She is by one of the most aggressive studs in the area, and she got her daddies temperament Talk about being thrown into the world of horse training head first! When I was about 16, at this point sick of trying EVERYTHING anyone could think of (like trying to join up for literally 2 hours with no success), I "threw" her, had my knee on her neck so she couldn't get up and just rubber her everywhere. I kept her down for about 15 minutes or so, let her up and was able to join up in about 15 minutes. She has been relatively easy to train since, though she has her moments. She is now 12 and ridable. I wouldn't throw a beginner on her but she is a great horse now. I'm glad I didn't give in when I wanted too.

Some just need a come to Jesus moment, and it might take more for some horses to get that message.

Michelle, it's hard for me to imagine you throwing a full sized horse on the ground but I believe you, after all, I did see you drive a Ford Taurus with a large bale of hay, 2 large dogs and a small stallion all happily inside.

I've seen this work. I think we talked about it on the beach trip. I used to work for a little gal who used to toss every foal on the place as a matter of course. Then, as adults, they never forgot she could throw them on the ground but meanwhile, she was a kind and benevolent leader and her horses were all very respectful and affectionate.

In the "old days", throwing the horse on the ground and doing exactly what you did was a "horse whisperers" first course of action. They didn't violently throw them, but had a way with ropes and such to gently drop them on the ground and then sit on them, much to the wows of the cowboys who used to ride the fight out of them. First time I saw it I was horrified but for some horses, it is the right course. I had a filly (full sized) like that and my vet, finally exasperated with her antics, tossed her. Took three of us sitting on her but after that, we never had a problem with shots or worming where before, EVERYTHING was a nightmare... and she was thoroughly handled and shaped at birth and was regularly handled and prepared for everything she would encounter. Just goes to show, there are many different horses. In fact, to complicate things, for each horse, you really have 2 horses. The rights side horse and the left side horse and everything has to be taught to both. And that horse can be very different from hour to day to week... but understanding their base personality and their trends in how they react is very helpful to know and really can only come from keen observation and patience.

I have found that personally, I do not do particularly well the horse that moves it's feet before it's brain. Reactive horses usually get me spun up which is the opposite of what needs to happen, usually. I prefer a horse that moves it's brain first. Those horses can be really frustrating for other people that need to see movement to think anything is happening...

All so interesting!

 

[WashingtonCowgirl]

Lol! Yup I had her haltered and our training saddle on her, tied her leg up, dallied it around the saddle horn and bent her head till she was down.

If I'm buying a horse to train myself, I like as clean of a slate as possible (actually, in a full sized horse I prefer literally untouched and having lived in a herd setting all its life thus far). And I'm one who prefers reactive horses. When I first got Spanky he actually made me a bit nervous. I thought he would be fine one day and then blow up in a second. I've put him through quite a bit though, so I'm pretty much over that thinking lol

 

[Knottymare]

Lol! Yup I had her haltered and our training saddle on her, tied her leg up, dallied it around the saddle horn and bent her head till she was down.

If I'm buying a horse to train myself, I like as clean of a slate as possible (actually, in a full sized horse I prefer literally untouched and having lived in a herd setting all its life thus far). And I'm one who prefers reactive horses. When I first got Spanky he actually made me a bit nervous. I thought he would be fine one day and then blow up in a second. I've put him through quite a bit though, so I'm pretty much over that thinking lol

- that's just the way I've seen it done...
Well, I guess ALL horses are reactive. It's just where the threshold is. Like Dolly... she's got a long fuse. She'll usually shut down rather than blow up. If I'm smart and paying attention, I don't have to see the blow up. In fact, the only time I've ever seen her lose it was at the beach. And if I'd have listened to her, I'd have noticed her fussing and fretting and letting me know she was outside her comfort zone. But my linear thinking was on a mission to be on the beach while it was still low tide. Sort of a come heck or high water situation. That is the mistake that most of us make with horses whether it be heading out on a ride or entering the show ring. We often get our head in a place where we are on a mission and nothing will cause us to deviate. Thankfully, horses are largely quite compliant and go with our flow but if pushed far enough, hard enough, we all know how ugly it can get.

Following any training method really requires us more than anything to learn to listen to our horses and understand what it is that they are trying to tell us.

 

[WashingtonCowgirl]

I agree. Jazz is very very short fused and there is no warning time when you near the end. And she would have made an awesome bronco lol. Spanky, well, I have yet to come to the end of his fuse, if one even exists

Somewhere I read "If you have an hour, it will take all day and if you have all day it will take an hour" or something like that. I don't remember exactly the context it was in but it definitely pertains to horse training

 

[Blackwater Farm]

My grandfather used to "throw" horses on the ground. I have seen it work wonders! I'm sure it's not applicable to every horse/situation but I have seen it done and work. I am a huge Clinton supporter. I have used his method on several horses, minis and full size and it has never let me down. It's his method that works and I have done it without having to buy all the "tools". I do have a handy stick that I used on my big horses but dont really like to use it with the minis. Nor do I have the halter and lead for the minis. I still apply the method and still get great results. I also like Chris Cox and Craig Cameron.

 

[WashingtonCowgirl]

If you ever get the chance to see Craig Cameron live, do it. He is great, and wonderful to talk to.

 

[paintponylvr]

I like CA's website. His is very imformative. I am trying to use a little parelli and ca mixed together. I wish the videos weren't so expensive. Also you have to buy the halters, sticks and leads. Wish they would simplify the equipment to keep costs down.

I decided I needed to add my 2 cents worth here... Who says you need to purchase their equipment?

I made my own tie halters - CA's "mini" halter (foal) doesn't have all the knots, so any tie halter that is a "copy" will work if it properly fits your horse. The rope?? Lowes, Home Depot, Tractor Supply Co, many other hardware stores AND other Natural Horse supply stores have the rope. Marine rope is also sold by Marine stores and several have stores online. Personally, I REALLY like MCR (Mountain Climbing Rope) which comes in different metric sizes - so that you can size it to your hands. I've made my own lead ropes, lounge lines, cross ties, trailer ties and halters for years. Now, I have a lot more ponies/minis and find I end up buying more now... YEP, you can get the rope for less than what CA and PP and some others sell theirs for - but then you have to be crafty enuf to make the lead (s). It's not difficult and it IS much cheaper - if that is a concern. I made several no hardware, tie halters out of braided haystring (already paid for from my horse's hay!) - both 4 strand and 6 strand. It comes off of the round bales - the short, cut strings from small square bales doesn't work. You can also make it from paracord - several suppliers out there that have it in different colors (ooooo - you can make them in your barn/farm or your individual horses' color - I LOVE THAT) AND nowadays it comes in different weights (not just 550 cord anymore that started for the soldiers' parachutes). There are several different videos out on YouTube that show how to "tie" the no hardware halters. I purchased my directions from UBraidIt dot com. I also purchased the basic braiding book and then adjusted the sizing to suit - I've even braided breast collar training harness that works for training LOTS of young shetland/minis to drive... Cheap and holds up well. Gives your hands something to do while you are holed up over the winter while watching the DVDs you are going to get...

The 2nd one is braided from 4 strands of haystring. The next one was made by my farrier out of paracord and this is a Shetland filly that will be about 40 - 42" at maturity.

The "carrot stick" - well our feed store carries a "copy" that works well enough. And when I purchased my first one - it was only $15 vs the $50 that some of the others charge for the name. Is it the same? NO, it's not. It's heavier and not balanced anywhere near the same. Also, my copy isn't short enough (to me) to work with the smaller shetlands. Fixed that - used a lounge whip that had broken - and made a tip (duct tape & leather), then attached the "string". I DO like CA's equipment - to be honest. It's weighted different than the rope I can get for much less and make my own. BUT the cost does add up. I'd love to have the children's stick - it's now only 2 ft long vs the 4 ft long one and it's "ergonomic" - it feels great in the hands that are starting to have issues (early stages of arthritis? YIKES), but right now, the cost is something I'd rather put into some other things (like sending a couple of my mini/shetlands to trainers and to Congress and Nationals). There are other stores on line now that carry "carrot sticks" for less than either PP or CA's. (I think Natural Horse Supply is one... I know there are others but don't have the links on this computer, so can't tell you what they are. NHS also has a bunch of short articles on the different training techniques that you can print out and make your own book...)

Last - our own miniature horse stores cary tied rope halters and DVDs on training minis by a trainer that uses NH type techniques. Ozark Mtn Mini horse Tack, Star Lake Farm, Mini Express - etc... Check them out. They don't have the longer lead/lounge lines or the "carrot sticks", tho, LOL.

Over the last 20 years or more, I've gathered a nice library of books from the different trainers - even have a couple from british trainers that are a "twist" on the PP and CA stuff.. Neat to see what they do! The book on bombproofing is also a GREAT one. AND don't discount the training by Linda Tellington Jones - who also has books w/ pictures showing their "style" with ponies and mini's (& they use flat nylon halters w/ stud chains on the lead ropes). John Richard Young put out a book 30 + yrs ago - called "Training the Young Rider" - and it's a big pictorial w/ his daughter and a "wild" pony they purchased. I remember it as being AWESOME and applied a lot of his techniques to my training too (Loved the articles that he used to write for the "Horseman" magazine before it went out of production). I currently don't have a copy of that one and need to get it again. I've been fortunate to be able to go to many clinics - though only a couple by the "big names". Some techniques work for me - others are harder for me to grasp. I sometimes have a tendency to be too aggresive - but even with that, my ponies/minis adjust.

There is a PONY TRAINER on the West Coast (can't remember what state) that uses NH techniques (think mostly PP, but can't remember). She has now written at least one book and also has several YouTube vids up. I think she's PonyPro (s)? Can't remember, sorry. But liked her stuff and was wishing I could send one of my 1/2 arab/shetland ponies to her for riding training - may still evenutally do so, not sure!

Lots of advice from a lot of different people here - I was VERY surprised, myself. Even found a couple names I'd not heard before and will be looking them up!

 

[Knottymare]

"If you have an hour, it will take all day and if you have all day it will take an hour" or something like that. I don't remember exactly the context it was in but it definitely pertains to horse training

That sounds like something Tom Dorrance would have said. Maybe he did!

He did say this:

"The best thing I try to do for myself is to try to listen to the horse. I don't mean let him take over. I listen to how he's operating: what he's understanding or what he doesn't understand: what's bothering him and what isn't bothering him. I try to feel what the horse is feeling and operate from where the horse is." - TD

​

 

[Knottymare]

We used to have a local gal that made tied rope halters and leads exactly like the Parelli stuff. I LOVE it. the rope has such a nice feel to it. It communicates your movements so much better than the crappy acrylic leads that I use for grooming time or when I want to have them on a pretty lead. I wish I could find the clasp in a lighter weight for the minis because they are so safe. If anything happens, the clasp is the thing that will fail, saving your horse and your rope

 

[WashingtonCowgirl]

I just bought a rope halter, it was crazy cheap and I'm hoping that it will be quality when I get it I guess we will see when it gets here lol

 

[islandminis]

Interesting topic - I have had the Parelli CDs and switched to Anderson. They both had good points and information. I also found a fellow here in BC - Jonathan Fields and really like his approach, I learned something from all of them but the best thing I ever did was to go to a Natural Horsemanship trainer for hands on learning. There is nothing like a horse who knows how to respond to what's being asked IF you are asking the right way. This horse taught me that I was not communicating in "horse" and when I finally figured it out (with the help of the horse and the instructor) it was a revelation. Ever since I have been much better at being clear about what I am asking the horse to do, something hours of of watching could not do. The cd's were a good start, had to have the ideas in there, but hands on with a horse that "knows it's stuff" really gets it clear. It's sort of reverse learning - The second I did it right the horse would reward ME by doing what I wanted.

 

[MountainWoman]

I think CA and Parelli and all the other trainers have great things to offer and I'll throw in Julie Goodnight as well because I haven't seen her name mentioned. I followed CA for a couple of years with my riding horse and then moved on to clicker training following Alexandra Kurland's program. I got farther along with my horse in one month with the clicker than I did in a couple of years with CA. BUT and this is a big BUT clicker training is not about grabbing a bag of treats and rewarding your horse constantly and I think many people don't know what they are doing with clicker training and they end up accidentally reinforcing pushy behavior.

The reason professional rainers are wonderful is that they have developed impeccable timing, they know what they are doing and they've spent years perfecting their training. Some methods and trainer's styles will be more in tune with you and others won't. I don't think there is one "One Size Fits All" trainer because we all have different training personalities.

I think many of the failures with non professionals with any training system at least with full size horses is that newbies (usually older like me) know nothing about horses and then expect to be out there riding the trails alone after following a certain program. Some of these people have already purchased a horse that they shouldn't have because they liked it's color, breed, etc.

The best thing you can do is to watch RFDTV and get your hands on as many videos as possible. I'd also try to visit a local riding stable and find an instructor you admire and perhaps have them help you as well. Training a horse is a journey and it will have highs and lows. You just have to keep on going until you find what works best for you and your horse.