AMHR Futurity Payback

[Ashley]

I cant figure out why people would even cash checks they got if there horses never even placed in the futurity?

 

[lyn_j]

[SIZE=14pt]That is a good point Ashley makes..... If my horse didnt place at all even make the cut in order to have won that much money, all the horses would have had to be disqualified and mine moved to first. Even with the 4th and 5th placings I got, the sheet said first only got 600 or so.... I think I would have been too wary to cash a check without bringing a ribbon home from the show.[/SIZE]

Lyn

 

[Minimor]

I've been thinking the same thing as Ashley.

Even though there is a note saying that the horse(s) moved up because another horse was DQ'd--to go from no placings at all to $1800 in payback would seem to mean there had to be an awful lot of horses DQ'd. Since to me that would seem very unlikely I wouldn't have been cashing the check & spending the money right away.

 

[Magic]

I cant figure out why people would even cash checks they got if there horses never even placed in the futurity?

I sure did NOT cash mine!! I knew something was "off", which is why I contacted my Director. She was super in finding out asap what was going on, and letting me know.

 

[kaykay]

i get what you ladies are saying and i probably would have investigated before i cashed the check.

But the thing to keep in mind is AMHR screwed up not the poster.

Amhr should be more careful about keeping the futurity money straight and not issuing checks to the wrong people.

I know i have gotten congress checks and cashed them right away. I could never tell you if the amount was right as i would have no clue

 

[Minimor]

I agree Kay that AMHR did mess up--this did start out as their error & as such they should allow some payback time. However, if someone receives a check that they have to suspect they aren't entitled to (and going from nothing to $1800 has to be very questionable IMO) & immediately cash & spend that money, that only adds to the initial problem. The problem the OP ends up with is not ALL the fault of AMHR.

I grant that if you received some placings in the classes and knew you had some prize money coming, you wouldn't necessarily know how much you were entitled to. But when you didn't place at all it's a little different.

Sometimes it does pay to look a gift horse in the mouth!

 

[ajesse78]

[SIZE=10pt] [/SIZE]I think it's funny how some of you changed your tune after you found out the amount that was cashed. Point is the AMHR screwed up and now they are trying to cover their tracks by demanding the money back, which they shouldn't ask for it back at all, in such a relatively short amount of time. The AMHR needs to be more careful about this because this would be an outstanding lawsuit in which they could lose more money then they already have. All this is is someone trying to cover their tracks for their screw up. Apparently you didn't read how the AMHR sent the owner notification that their horses had moved up in the placings due to another horse(s) disqualification. From what I understand two officials have to sign off on that, so why didn't someone catch it? From the legal stand point, the money doesn't have to be returned and the owner is trying to return it. I'm sure that Kuel (cute name) aren't the only ones that have checks that AMHR issued out when they shouldn't have; they're just the only ones owning up to it.

 

[Cathy_H]

One solution to part of the problem would be that AMHR verify that the person/horse showing should have been in the class to begin with? If an exhibitor knew from the get go that they were not supposed to be in a class, you know cashing the check is not going to bother them! .............. Do they not verify that each person/horse is suppose to be in the class to begin with?.............. Not saying that is what happened here but referencing someone that knew they had not sustained their horse.

 

[Minimor]

speaking for myself, I didn't overlook the note regarding horse(s) being DQ'd & other horse(s) moving up in placings. I do, however, question how many horses do you think would have to be DQ'd in order for an exhibitor to move up from zippo to $1800?? $200 maybe, but $1800? I know I sure wouldn't have cashed any check without contacting the registry to find out exactly what my "new" placings were after the other horses were DQ'd.

I think AMHR's lawyer's might argue that cashing a check which you know you aren't entitled to could be constituted as 'fraud' so I'm not sure that the registry would lose a legal battle. As for losing registry privileges, I'm quite sure there is a clause in the rule book about registry privileges being suspended for any member that owes money to the registry--haven't checked, but I know every other registry I've been a member of has that wording in their rules.

Covering tracks? They're trying to fix a mistake. Correct an error. Heck, I could name several people that have had this happen with the Canadian government--they get overpaid on unemployment insurance, family allowance or whatever; recipients cash the cheques in good faith because honestly, who does know what amount they are entitled to with some of these payments. Sooner or later the government discovers the error & demands the money back. The individuals must pay it back--it is the law. No cover up. Just a mistake that must be corrected.

 

[ajesse78]

Cover up, correcting a mistake, same difference. Either way, Kuel would could not be found for fraud since it is in black and white from the desk of AMHR that she is entitled to that money. Two officials signed off on it. Again, why did they not catch it? And if they are not covering up why the urgency to have the money returned? And why were they so rude to Kuel on the phone and telling them that they needed to get another credit card to pay it off? Face it, the blame is square on AMHR. Regardless of the amount of DQ's there were, AMHR failed to keep appropriate records of participants and winnings. I do believe Kuel did consult an attorney and stated that they were very pleased with what the attorney had to say. I wonder what the attorney said myself, but I do know that, after working in the county jail and knowing tons of officers and two state attorneys myself, that Kuel cannot be gotten for fraud seeing how AMHR screwed up and sent them a letter telling them the money was theirs. I'm not trying to be rude, but this kind of thing ticks me off that such negligence on the part of a registry is going unchecked. I wonder how much money has been lost due to the people in charge. It's safe to say that someone is liable to lose their position over their stupidity. What should have happened at this point is AMHR should have sent out notices stating the "mistake" and ask the people they discovered not to be the rightful winners to not cash the checks and send them back or destroy them and the ones that have cashed them keep the money or if nothing else, give them more time to pay it off.

 

[Nathan Luszcz]

The government doesn't play by the same rules corperations do

They ARE the law... I agree that the orginization made the mistake and sent a letter explaining the mistake along with the check. If I got that letter I would have cashed the check, and since I have CC debt like 99% of people out there, that money would have paid off my cards. Then they demand the money back, and its already spent. Not like I went out and bought a car, it would have paid back money I spent weeks or months ago. I actually DID have this happen to me just last month with student loans. They issued me my loans, I paid my CC that night, and the next day they revised my status and demanded $1000 back. I no longer had the money, and had to take a cash advance on the payment I made the day before. I was furious, but there was nothing I could do since I had asked for the revision, I just didn't realize that it would chance my status so dramatically. But that's another story... if I had recieved a check from this group I wouldn't have gone through tons of hoops to verify it unless it was WAY out of wack (like, $100,000 instead of $10,000). And I'm shocked that the futurity checks are so large... now I know why people show in them!

 

[kuelqhs]

Ok people we have to get a few things straight because this is getting out of hand.

1. The $1,800 was not for one horse it was for MORE THAN ONE. The places that they put my horses in were for the correct classes. The AMHR said the placing were correct.

2. I never said anything about a lawsuit, all I said was I spoke with an attorney about my rights on the topic.. I was told that as long as I'm sending payments they can't do anything to me. I don't even have to send the money back BUT then the AMHR would stand the right to suspend me.

3. As far as suspending me from the registry on the 5th. I have read the rulebook, they can not do that, YES they can suspend me but NOT BY THE 5th, there are to many steps they have to follow. There is no was it can go through that fast. Also if I read the rulebook right they will not do anything as long as I'm sending payments.

4. This topic was started to ask a question of did anyone else receive checks, and then get told to send them back? It however was NOT started to jump on me.

 

[dinno28]

[SIZE=12pt] We're still waiting for our futurity checks. We did have horses place well. The screw up in question is major and I could sure use that money right now. I know Joe's working on it as fast as he can, but I'm interested to find out how so MANY mistakes were made. :no:[/SIZE]

 

[dinno28]

If your horses did not place in the futurity and you received a check .... wouldn't you call the national office and verify the results before you spent the money? Just seems like common sense...

jill i have heard amounts anywhere from 300-1000 per horse. I know the sweepstakes class was worth 4000.00 pretty big chunk of change!

how in the world did they mess the checks up this badly??

Thats really not right of them to do that to Kuelgh. Its their mistake so they should give you time to pay it back.

 

[dinno28]

The stallion service sweepstakes paid back very well. Our colts Mccarthy's Padron won 3073.22 for first place place and Mccarthy's Hopalong Cassidy won 2242.62 for second place ... I also won 2768.75 as owner of the winning entry's sire (Mccarthy's Kryptonite). It would have been nice to see the program continue...

as far as the futurity payouts they ranged from 125. for a top ten in the weanling class to 839.59 for first in the yearling filly class with Michigan's Little Sharp Image ...

jill i have heard amounts anywhere from 300-1000 per horse. I know the sweepstakes class was worth 4000.00 pretty big chunk of change!

how in the world did they mess the checks up this badly??

Thats really not right of them to do that to Kuelgh. Its their mistake so they should give you time to pay it back.

 

[Lisa-Ruff N Tuff Minis]

If your horses did not place in the futurity and you received a check .... wouldn't you call the national office and verify the results before you spent the money? Just seems like common sense...

[

I am not jumping on you at all in fact no one would have known about the 1800 and your situation had you yourself not posted.

I am curious though you said that none of your horses had placed and they all moved up?(according to the letter AMHR sent) Were they all in the same class? Dont you have to place 5th and above to get money? I dont know and am going off what I have heard in the past not sure how correct that is

Hopefully you will be able to work it out with AMHR

 

[lyn_j]

[SIZE=14pt]Only the top 5 placings get paid if there are less than 26 horses in the class. If there are 27 or more then 6th thru 10th get all the same payout of about 100 dollars give or take. As Eddie pointed out even getting a first with Image he only won 800 and change, The Sweepstakes is where the big money used to be but unfortunately that Stallion service auction and Sweepstakes class was discontinued..... wonder if it will ever start up again. I would certainly want to participate if it was opened up again.[/SIZE]

Lyn

 

[Lisa-Ruff N Tuff Minis]

Thanks lyn that clears up lots of confusion for me

 

[kuelqhs]

The only reason I said the amount is because someone asked the queston

If it is not too personal or rude, I am curious how much can the futurity winnings add up to?

If I wasn't trying to be nice and answer a question I would have never said the about that my checks added up to.

My horses were all in difrent classes of 75 plus horses so I didn't know how far down money was paid in a class of that size.

Now Please for now on live me out of this topic

 

[willowoodstables]

Oh for gosh sakes you people!! No wonder the forum gets such a bad rep.

Keul NEVER stated half of what you guys keep quoting. What to do when reading these threads, is start with the OP..Original Poster, read all the replies and then go back and RE-READ the OP...then formulate a reply..you guys have all the posts mixed up into Keul's....geeesh

Anyways,

Keul..the AMHR screwed up, not you. If you had not paid your nominations ahead of time and then tried to show in the Futurity I am darnED sure the AMHR would have stopped you dead at the gate.

The AMHR has had NOTHING but on-going problems since I joined. The "arbitrary" rules that apply to some and not others, the so-called web site that is NEVER up dated, the emails that never go answered, the wishy washy intrepretation of the rule book/measuring etc etc and now this???

Dear AMHR MEMBERSHIP....is this what we pay our money for???? Lets try to send representatives to the Convention that will...

1. STAND UP AND BE HEARD

2. MAKE SURE THEY ARE REALLY HEARD

3. TAKE OUR CONCERNS DIRECTLY OFF THIS BOARD AND HAND THEM OUT

4. MAKE OUR DIRECTORS MORE ACCOUNTABLE

5. GET THE AMHR ON BETTER FOOTING AS AN ORGANIZATION THAT IS BENEFITING ME THE MEMBER

and last but not least

6. TAKE OUT A FULL PAGE AD IN THE JOURNAL OH GREAT HEAD OFFICE OF THE AMHR AND MAKE AN darn APOLOGY FOR THE MULTI and ON-GOING SCREW UPS..WE THE PEOPLE WOULD APPRECIATE IT.

Thank heavens for the Directors that do post here, however, the info has never ever been given to me officially by the AMHR...

If there are more people required in the office, so be it, have a real life job competition/interview comittee. But in all honesty, these screw-ups keep reminding me of why the AMHR has to drag the $$ out of me for my membership, as in so far I have nothing to show for my $$, except some registration papers (oh yeah there are other registries) and an AMHR H.O.F....yipee...it makes it all worth while...NOT

Stick to your guns Keul...and my attorney agrees with yours I'm sure :bgrin

Kim