Yippee --- Bob is hitched!!

[Bluerocket]

Just had to brag and post a picture. I have been working with one of our minis - Gotta Go -- aka Bob -- getting him started in driving. We have 8 minis and only one was a driving horse up until now. My husband indicated he would enjoy going to the driving related things if only we had a 2nd horse to drive so he could drive too!!! soooo we purchased a Frontier easy entry for our 2nd cart -- and I have been training one of our geldings to drive -- we have been long lining for a while -- and this yesterday(I was out on vacation) we put him to the cart -- led him around -- and I rode in the cart for a couple of minutes -- then today I actually "drove" him ---

Here is one picture of Bob -- he is a very good boy -- the ground is slightly rolling/hilly - and it was a bit slippery too. The cart shoved him around a little on the hills - so we did not drive very long.

This horse was bred by Roger Harald and I believe his sire is Hemlock Brooks Prancing Prince. Gotta Go (aka Bob) is a 1999 model. He is wearing a long version of winter woolies -- he has lovely conformation and is not fat (but sure looks it here). I have clipped a band around his middle for the saddle/girth (so the hair would not get pinched or rubbed the wrong way) and he has a clipped bridle path.

Will post more over the winter in the photo section -- as we progress. I am hoping to compete him some this year at CT and maybe a CDE by Labor Day. Will still be driving Platinum as Hubby will most likely not drive enough to keep him in shape.

JJay

 

[Alex]

Woohoo! Go Bob!!!

Hes purdy!!

Nice helmet.

 

[Lucky-C-Acres-Minis]

Yay! Looks like fun! Can't wait to get our guy driving this spring!

 

[MiLo Minis]

Way to go! Congratulations and not just on getting him driving but for taking good safety precautions such as wearing a helmet and using a kicking strap. I think probably part of the problem on the hills is that he doesn't have the strength or experience yet to help hold the cart but it also appears that your breeching is just a bit too low and is likely taking his legs out from under him. I would raise it up one hole. He looks like a nice wee guy and it looks like you have done a great job getting him going. Lucky you to have a hubby that wants to join you!

 

[REO]

Wheee!

Looking good! He's coming right along!

 

[Marty]

Cheers for you and BOB

He looks like a really nice horse too.

 

[hobbyhorse23]

I got to meet Bob when I stayed at JJay's for the National Drive in October and Bob has the most amazing trot. He's going to be awesome.

I agree the breeching is a little low but the cart is also a little high with those 24" wheels and that's making it worse.

Keep it up JJay, you're doing great!

Leia

 

[Bluerocket]

Will try adjusting the britching up a notch -- I have tried it down and up -- (higher/lower) -- and could not make up my mind.

Leia -- what do you mean about the wheels being 24"? and the cart too high? My other cart has 26" wheels.

I just am not sure what you are referring to as the problem and why and the rational --- could you explain?

Thanks for all the comments and the help.

JJay

 

[hobbyhorse23]

Leia -- what do you mean about the wheels being 24"? and the cart too high? My other cart has 26" wheels.

Well, on your wooden cart the 26" wheels work because they are attached higher on the "body" of the cart so the shafts still sit at the right height. On a Frontier with the axle being the lowest point using a larger wheel (24" instead of 20") raises the cart up by about 2" over where it's designed to be for smaller minis. It's borderline but okay on Platinum as he's a little larger but for Bob the shafts really are sitting just a little too high. It's a well-balanced cart and you have it harnessed right so there's not the danger of it trying to ride up over the shoulder on sharp turns that you might see with some "too large" carts, but where you'll run into problems is in attaching the breeching in an effective horizontal line and making the traces run level. The higher the shaft, the more the front of the breeching tips up and the back goes down and BOOM- scoopage.

Your wooden cart and the Frontier both have the singletree set on top of the shafts so to get a good angle for pulling it's important that the cart sit low enough that the singletree is level with the breastcollar instead of running uphill. That usually means the front of the shafts tip up a bit like a show cart instead of being completely horizontal.

YOUR CART IS OKAY, don't get me wrong.

But that extra height is part of the reason you're having trouble with the breeching and is probably making turning slightly more awkward for him than it would be with a lower cart. An experienced horse would know how to handle it but Bob doesn't yet. You'll notice all those marathon carriages have shafts that slope down sharply- that's because the horse can turn and stop better with that arrangement and the low singletree makes it easier to accelerate quickly because they get more power out of their pulling. You want the bulk of the shaft at or below the horse's center of mass as it's easier for them to shoulder it over that way. Yours is slightly above.

It's always a fine line between getting larger wheels to make the cart roll easier and raising it up too high. For Platinum I'd say you're okay, for Bob I'm not sure but I'd lean towards smaller wheels unless you found you really didn't like how they rode. Lowering the singletree could also help but doesn't fix the breeching.

Bah, I'm babbling. Let me know if I didn't explain anything clearly enough! I think most of my brain got washed away in this monumental storm we're having right now...water over the roadways everywhere!

Leia

 

[Bluerocket]

Thanks for the explanation Leia -- I am still a bit confused (thought I understood it) --

Here are a couple of pics of the wooden cart -- it also has the axel as the lowest part -- and as you point out has the swingletree set up on top. I can see (on Platinum) that the traces go up instead of being parallel on his body (but I am using the normal breast plate, not the freedom collar in these photos) -- this wooden cart has 26" wheels. It does have a "smaller basket" -- e.g. the floor is closer to the bottom of the seat -- set up for short legged people like me.

With the Frontier -- and Bob -- I do have to have the tugs up high to make the shafts even on his sides (I believe I can set them down one more notch and have it a little better -- with me in the cart it is up a bit). The traces seem to me to go straight to the swingletree from the Freedom collar -- not like the other cart (and other harness) and Platinum. We did try, but due to the way the frontier is made, we could not install the swingletree on the underside -- had to go on top. --- also going to try the traces one more hole longer -- I had them longer the first day driving --- and shortened them for this time -- I think the traces are just a bit short here.

Sooooo --- looking at these pictures -- is the wooden cart really that different? I thought I understood - but now I am even more confused.

On another note:

The good news is that the new cart is really intended for Kim to use with Platinum -- and the other larger minis. It just makes less noise than the wooden cart (and has a smoother ride for that matter).

So -- when I finally get to try driving him again (weather, daylight and assistant permitting) I will try him with the wooden cart and let you know if I can tell anything different (other than being bounced around more stiffly).

I got the 24" wheels because I just personally don't like 20" ones -- tooo bumpy cross country for me --- and this cart fits Kim's leg length (for a more comfortable ride) mugh better than it does mine -- too long to the floor for me.

Learn something new everyday.

JJay

 

[MiniHGal]

JJay, I personally much prefer the larger wheels over the smaller, but I do think this setup is a bit tall for Bob--who is a VERY cute boy! He looks like he is really trying hard for you. Awesome CDE prospect!

If you were going to use this cart for him, I would move the axle so that it sits 'above' the cart...the two pieces where it is sitting under now, can be moved so that the axle is on top of them (or rather you move the axle, but anyway). This will lower the cart a couple inches, and I think it might be just right for him. Its just like reversing the bolts and way of attaching the cart and axle, not hard at all.

And I want to ask, because I'm neurotic (Leia can affirm this!), whip? *grins* Whip commands should be part of his learning, by now, so it can be used to help him figure out how to bend when hitched.

 

[ClickMini]

JJay, have nothing to add to the great comments here except I think Bob is so cool! He looks terrific hitched up and does appear to have a great gait. And I love, love, LOVE your wood cart/with your russet harness. It is just beautiful with that horse.

 

[Bluerocket]

MiniHgal:

I will try relocating the axle -- that can be done for sure. Its not that I am not listening to you guys --- nor that I object to what you are saying -- I am just trying to understand it.

No whip the first times because there is no whip holder and only one "assistant". Both of us (assistant and I) lead him for a while first --- prior to my getting in the cart. No way to hold the whip, lead the mini and get in etc... He is a little spooked by the whip - so we are working on getting over that in the barn and stall.

Next outing should have whip in hand. :-D

Amy -- thanks for the compliments about Platinum and the cart/harness. I think its a nice combination as well -- and for the compliments about Bob too. Both minis are "hardworkers" and very willing to please.

Leia -- I have not watched the news/weather in while - was surprised this morning to see the heavy wind and all the rain you have been experiencing. Hope you (and yours) are all ok.

JJay

 

[hobbyhorse23]

Thanks for the explanation Leia -- I am still a bit confused (thought I understood it) --

Here are a couple of pics of the wooden cart -- it also has the axel as the lowest part -- and as you point out has the swingletree set up on top. I can see (on Platinum) that the traces go up instead of being parallel on his body (but I am using the normal breast plate, not the freedom collar in these photos) -- this wooden cart has 26" wheels. It does have a "smaller basket" -- e.g. the floor is closer to the bottom of the seat -- set up for short legged people like me.

You're right that your Pequea(sp?) is built superficially like the Frontier and I'd forgotten that. I was thinking more of show carts where the axle runs under the seat and the basket is a separate thing in front of and below the axle. I can't pinpoint how the Frontier and your wood cart are different in construction from the pictures you've provided or my faulty memory (darn my lack of mechanical smarts!) but I know they must be as they feel very different to sit in. Different basket shapes, different suspension, different amounts of leg room, different seat depths, different seat back heights....you get the idea. Somewhere in there must be the secret to why one sits lower with 26" wooden wheels than the other with 24" pneumatics!

With the Frontier -- and Bob -- I do have to have the tugs up high to make the shafts even on his sides (I believe I can set them down one more notch and have it a little better -- with me in the cart it is up a bit). The traces seem to me to go straight to the swingletree from the Freedom collar -- not like the other cart (and other harness) and Platinum. We did try, but due to the way the frontier is made, we could not install the swingletree on the underside -- had to go on top. --- also going to try the traces one more hole longer -- I had them longer the first day driving --- and shortened them for this time -- I think the traces are just a bit short here.

DON'T drop the tugs.

That isn't going to change anything except to make the cart unbalanced and cause it to want to bounce on his back when he gets going. You have it set correctly now, it's the fact that you have to set the tugs high to make the shafts level that indicates the cart is sitting too high. Sometimes you'll have to do that with curved shafts and it doesn't mean there's a problem, but for a straight-shaft vehicle it means it's too tall for the horse. I think your traces are fine but it's hard to see on a black horse. I personally wouldn't change them unless there's something you can see driving that we can't in the pictures.

The Freedom Collar does sometimes make the line of the traces level to a raised singletree but it's still not an ideal setup as the line of draft is likely to be above the horse's center of mass and that makes pulling harder. Imagine a human trying to pull something heavy on the ground from a shoulder harness- if you try to do it while standing completely upright you'll have trouble moving the load and want to keel over backwards. If you lean forward you lower the line of pull to closer to your center of gravity/mass/whatever and you can lean forward into the load and move it more easily. It's the same for your horse. You want to give them a setup where the load will rest comfortably on the broad upper slope of their shoulders and they can lean forward and up into the load using their neck as a lever. They really can't do that with a straight breastcollar and especially not with a high singletree. It's not as big a deal for the show ring or flat road driving because it's limited pulling on a flat surface, but for heavy loads and small horses out in hilly country...well, it matters.

This cart is okay for Bob, JJay, let me repeat that. It's just that the higher the cart and shafts relative to the horse and the higher the line of draft, the more unwieldy it is for the animal. I think if you can flip the axle like Breanna mentioned that might be enough to do it. Frontiers are designed to be perfect for A minis with the standard 20" wheels and that's all there is to it; tweak that and you've got to tweak other things! LOL. It's not the end of the world.

Leia

P.S.- Check the Back Porch for the NW Storm Report. There's some nasty damage but at least in my area things have dried out remarkably quickly and so far we're all hanging in there. It was even briefly sunny this morning! Raining again now though.

 

[Bluerocket]

A slight updated:

In case anyone is interested ---- I spoke with my husband about moving the axle to above the basket rather than below -- it is neither possible nor would the cart be structurally sound if you did so. What would happen is the entire cart and person would be held up by the bolts that attach the axle to the cart -- not a good idea. Also the Frontier Cart has the Square seat supports welded on the frame - and the axle would have to be above that.

We will be measuring and comparing the two carts -- and trying them on both horses for size etc..

We suspect the only option for our situation and horses (although it only lowers the cart 2 inches) is the 20" wheels. Don't have any idea what someone with a 30" or smaller does as these carts would be too tall for them as well.

Will post our results and decisions -- in case anyone cares.

JJay

PS. Leia -- glad you came through the rain storm and flooding ok.