World Mag

[LaVern]

Check out page 120. 2009 AMHA Rule Book Changes

Article XL, Section 6. Can it be so? I was beginning to think I would not live long enough to see it. Renee

 

[Jill]

I don't have my magazine yet. What does it say?

 

[Leeana]

I no longer get the magizine....i also want to know what it says.

 

[LaVern]

They are talking about what happens in 2013 when it closes.

Section 6, Breed Name and Size

Horses registered by The American Miniature Horse Association,Inc., shall be a breed of horse known as the American Miniature Horse.

 

[bingo]

Well we all know for either registry it will take more then closing hardshipping to rightfully be able to call it a breed.

 

[LaVern]

What does it take? Do you have to fill out a form? Do you have to pay a bunch of money to a breed starter up place? Does it have to be approved by someone or a group? How did the other Breeds become breeds? Does anyone know?

Or can a organization just say Okay today or in 2013 we are a breed? No one seems to know.

 

[Leeana]

...to me the miniature horse has always been a breed......if the registry closes or stays open.

 

[My-Lil-Pony]

In the AKC a purebred dog is still considered and registered as such even if it outgrows the show height requirements. Pedigree should not be discounted and thrown out due to something such as a inch of growth. When that happens I think we will be considered a breed.

 

[maestoso]

What will it take to become a breed? Here are a few things . . . . .

Allowing horses to retain papers no matter their height, as long as they are the offspring of 2 registered horses. YES!!! That means, if two 32" inch AMHA horses produce a 46" horse it SHOULD STILL be considered a miniature horse, because it is the offspring of such.

That's not to say that we should let the 46" horse show, but why not let it be bred? It might be able to produce under 34" offspring. NO OTHER REAL REGISTRY PULLS PAPERS BECAUSE OF HEIGHT, NONE!!!!!!!

AMHA needs to decide weather they want to be a breed registry or a height registry. If they want to stay a height registry, than fine, what we have is fine. If they want to really be considered and respected as a breed, they need to make the necessary changes. Breeds do not pull papers because of height.

For the record, I am OK with being a height registry, and have no problem with our height restrictions, other than the fact that I wish we had breeding stock papers for the taller horses, but that is a whole other thread that has already been hashed a million times.

 

[LaVern]

It says in our 2009 By Laws that we will be a breed in 2013. Plain and simple. How did they do it? It says that it is a done deal. How did they do it? It is in the the official pages of the World Magazine. It says that it is a done. No more-- I feel this or I feel that , they say it is a done deal.

I am happy as a pig in mud, but I just want to know how they did it.

Please someone must know how the other breeds became breeds.

 

[My-Lil-Pony]

There is no magic potion they did it due to the fact they said so.

Large horse breeds and registries do seem to be a lot more simple to follow and understand.

 

[Katiean]

In rabbit BREEDS you can have a mini rex that well exceeds the 4 1/2 pound size. It is still a mini rex on the pedigree. However, that 6 pound Mini Rex can not be registered or shown with the ARBA. They can still be bred and produce show quality and grand champion quality mini rex. They are a breed. So, my point is, if they (AMHA) want to be a Breed Registry, don't pull the papers on oversize horses. Still allow oversize to be bred. Though I personally would not breed a grosely oversize horse. I might get a super foal that is oversize and boob because I can't show it. With the mini rex when we quit showing we had top stock that in our colors no one could touch on the table. We never bred oversize. So, that would be up to the breeder. BREED=DON'T PULL PAPERS (they just can't show)

 

[maestoso]

AMHA telling us that miniature horses are now a breed doesnt make them a breed anymore than me telling myself I can fly, makes me fly

Sorry for the sarcasm I just find it really funny that all of a sudden because they decide to make it a little harder to register horses, now they "decide" we are a breed. It takes a lot more than that!

 

[Reignmaker Miniatures]

Seems to me that going oversize is no different than having a conformation fault. If I have a foal with cow hocks or that toes out I consider it pet quality but I still register it. If I had a foal go oversize it may not be show/breeding quality but it is still the offspring of registered horses so why should it not be papered?

Sorry, I know thats not the original topic here but I agree that to be a true 'breed' we need to make the breeding matter for ALL the foals of registered horses.

 

[LaVern]

I am thinking because no one has ever told me differently and I can't seem to find out otherwise , that for example the Shetland Pony breed was just started by a bunch of people that got together one day and said, "today The American Shetland pony is a breed and will start registering horses."

I am thinking that a bunch of guys got together one day and said," we are going to start a Quarter Horse Breed and register Quarter Horses."

If anyone knows how they did it and if I am wrong, please let me know.

I think they became a breed simply because some one said they were one. And now the AMHA has said that they will be a breed in 2013- so I guess it is so.

Whoopie- I will no longer have a bunch of grade short horses registered with AMHA. Of course the majority of my horses are still single registered AMHR grade high breds.

 

[kaykay]

My guess would be that before that goes into effect they will have to address horses that go over 34" Because as we all know from other breeds lawsuits once you become a breed you cannot kick a horse out of 2 registered parents. My guess is they will come up with a breeding stock only set of papers. (woohoo its about time!)

Will be interesting for sure.

 

[Boinky]

i'm not a lawyer but amha will be opening themselves up for lawsuits once they become a breed. every other breed that i know of that has excluded offspring (ie. QH's being one for too much white) have lost their battle. By making themselves a breed I think they are taking away their own right to dictate to size alone... i could be completely wrong but it seems precedence with breeds is in effect, where the courts seem to think that if it's from registerd stock it must be eligible. .... and i bet you'll see as tightly as they've held onto ousting anything over 34" will come to an end. they will be forced to at least have a breeding stock division. Sounds like it could be good news for people that work so hard to breed and accidently get oversized horses.

 

[Humhill]

I agree with keeping oversized horses registered. You would think that with as many people that show minis that came from showing dogs, someone would've done something about it by now.

I've always considered the minis a "breed."

But, this brings up a question. What will AMHR registered horses be? WHat qualifies the AMHA horses to be a "breed" but not AMHR? My understanding is that AMHR started registering minis first.

PS-NOT trying to make this a "who's better" fight, just want facts.

 

[HGFarm]

My X father in law lived in the midwest when the QH registry was conceived in 1940 and this is what he told me. Horses that met their criteria and requirements qualified as a QH, based on conformation and sometimes bloodlines. Many did not have registered parents, or only one of a traceable line, however, many of the horses used in QH breeding programs such as Old Fred and Joe Reed were suspected of being pinto- Old Fred had high whites up to his belly... Joe Reed had four socks.

Then there was Joker B, one of the foundation Appaloosa sires. His dam, Blue Vitriol, came from Coke Roberds breeding program of Quarter horses. Blue Vitriol was supposedly sired by Brown Dick. Blue was out of a mare that was supposed to be sired by Old Fred, named 'Leopard'. (you would have thought that might have been a dead give away?) But Leopard's dams dam was sired by a horse named Arab, who was an Appy. Shocked that the foal had spots and was not born a QH, he gave the colt to his wife, who sold him for $250 and promptly went out and bought her self a vacuum cleaner!

In 1949, though he was registered with the ApHC since 1946, he became registered with the AQHA Racing Association, based on his pedigree and rodeo history. He was sold the fall before his death in 1966 for $25,000.

By the way, Blue Vitriol has several offspring- five that I was able to find and four are Appaloosa and one is QH!!!! It is a mare named Dickey Duce, who produced several horses labeled as QH's and ONE Appaloosa!! The offspring can be followed from the Appy lines, but they are labeled as QH's knowing that there is Appy in the pedigree. Hmmmm.

Decades later, AQHA still gets sometimes LOUD outcrosses from two "QH" parents!!! Many of the pedgrees on QH's go back to horses that say 'Roberds mare' or something of that nature. Since they were not papered, and some purchased elsewhere, many had unknown backgrounds or were allegedly a great granddaughter somehow of another known horse, but how would anyone know for sure? They were registered and picked from a mish-mash of horses that the creators of the registery said looked like what they wanted as a QH. Many had 'mustang' backgrounds... so what were those? Nobody could know for sure.

So I agree with Matt D- WHAT is making this a breed simply by closing the registry? The QH were still allowing to breed to JC.. so how can a horse that is 15/16ths JC be a QH??? Because they 'earn' the right to be one, according to the registry.

To me, that makes ANY offspring of two registered AMHA horses, an AMHA horse, regardless of how big it is or what it looks like!!! It is NO LONGER a height breed only.

And I agree, somebody with a good attorney is going to get after that......

 

[ruffian]

The founding members of AMHA decreed that a miniature horse is under 34". They worked long and hard to make this a breed that just happens to be under 34".

So if the registry or association is to recognize ANYTHING over 34 or 38" if it has "Registered" parents, why not just CALL THEM PONIES??? It's not a conformational fault. It's a breed disqualification.

Because most Miniature Horses that are not small hackneys or moderns don't have extreme action, and have better temperments. Go ahead, I have my flame proof suit on. They have a different look from ponies. So let them be a breed of their own!!!

There's a reason that miniature shows have more entries and more animals. Because they are easier to handle and more fun to show.

This may have changed, but the POA association would not recognize animals over 56". Does that make them a height breed? Appaloosa's can't be under 56". Do you see a pattern here? (No pun intended!!)

The ApHC used to require color on their show horses. A few people complained that because THEIR horses, out of registered stock, didn't have color. So instead of refining their breeding programs, they *itched and complained and got the rule changed. So look at that "Breed" today and you will find many appaloosa's that you cannot tell from Quarter Horses because they have lost the ONE thing that differentiated them - COLOR! My friend used to raise appys, and her stallion - who was a 3 time ApHC state champion - was blanketed, beautiful, and 3/4 Quarter Horse.

Are we going to allow the same thing to happen to the miniature horse breed????