Why do none of the NW AMHR shows offer package deals?

[hobbyhorse23]

...due to budget concerns and a change in my work schedule which would have required far more vacation time per show than in the past.

It was very important to me to try and support all three AMHR shows in Washington this year despite some scheduling issues with a couple of shows moving their dates but when I looked at the weather and the entry fees I had to admit it simply wasn't worth it to attend the one in two weeks. They aren't offering a single non-rated fun class, entry fees for the ammy classes are the same as the open ones (which is far more expensive than ammy classes at the other two shows), and by the time I got done it would have cost me almost four hundred dollars to get there and show two horses in seven classes total. Add that to all the work getting ready and the lack of entries in my last show and that is WAY too much money for a couple of 5 cent ribbons that don't even mean anything because there was no competition.

The economy and gas prices being what they are, why on earth aren't the clubs doing more to entice showers?? I don't want to skip the other two shows because they've got non-rated fun classes, opportunities for pairs, chariots and green horses, discounts for amateurs, after-show activities and other fun stuff but this one really had nothing except a potluck exhibitor dinner.

I'm looking at next year with two driving horses and have no idea how I'm going to be able to afford to show. It would be a tremendous help to small showers like me if our clubs would offer package deals like so many other parts of the country are doing. Unlimited classes for $xx would ease the burden on the attendees and generate far more entries in each class at the same time, improving things for everyone.

I know I currently skip Showmanship, Obstacle, Hunter, Jumper and anything Open simply because I can't afford the additional entry dollars but if I had a flat entry rate I'd enter all of those with at least one horse, probably two, and in both divisions. More entries = more points and more meaningful wins = happier exhibitors who want to come back next year.

It's getting to the point where it doesn't feel worth it to go as most of the classes are so small. We can fix that!

Leia

 

[Flyin G Farm]

I think it’s important to look at the big picture here. Without knowing what the costs are for shows back East, it’s hard to judge what the NW clubs can/can’t do. Before we started having to put on shows, I had NO idea what it cost to put on a 3 day, 3 judge show, and I can tell you now it’s EXPENSIVE here. The clubs do not make money, we are fortunate if we break even. To cover our costs, we have to charge what we charge, so we can continue to even offer shows year after year, and offer all of the “extras” that people want and expect. Judges fees go up, facility fees go up, cost of ribbons go up, and in this economy, sponsorships can be hard to come by too. And as far as classes, if we offered all of the classes people want, we would be up showing at 1 a.m., and the people requesting all of these classes aren’t the ones having to take all of the complaints when the show goes into the wee hours of the morning. Our club offers a lot of classes and we do our best to make sure there is something for everyone, but we can’t put in every class that everyone wants. I’m very sorry you can’t afford to make it to the next show, it’s not uncommon at all for people to have to pick and choose what shows they can/can’t make it to, but please do not be too hard on the clubs. We do the best we can with what we have to work with, and I assure you, we’re not looking to turn a profit, we’re looking to make sure future shows are feasible.

Just my two cents worth. I think people sometimes forgot to think about what exactly goes into putting on a show. It is a lot of hard work and there are a lot of costs involved, and I feel bad for the clubs and people running the shows who never seem to get the appreciation that is deserved.

Flame suit on

 

[Candi]

Ironically, I've recently chatted w/some AMHR show managers from the midwest and Eastern US about this very thing.

We put on 3-4 shows a year at our show barn... and I'm on 3 breed-show committees... This year especially we've looked at LOWERING and REDUCING fees to entice exhibitors. Whether it's all-day fees, or severely reduced class fees.

I have NOT seen that at most of the AMHR/ASPC shows in the NW. Comparing premiums for the last 2-3 years - prices are going UP?!

Now I KNOW it's NOT more $ to rent facilities for minis - the AMHR judges I know are LESS than we're paying for APHA, ApHC, etc... so I agree 100% why aren't the costs LOWER?

 

[hobbyhorse23]

Thank you for your input, Tracy. I know you guys work long and thankless hours to put on the shows and I do sincerely appreciate all the hard work. That's why I feel so bad not being able to attend!

I was not looking to knock your club specifically nor say anyone is trying to turn a profit at the showers' expense. I'm just concerned that if we continue in the current model of how (not how much, but how) to price the shows clubs will not be able to break even anyway because people are going to decide it isn't worth it for such small numbers of entrants and stop attending. They are already picking and choosing their classes, I know many people who are only entering their driving horses in one or two classes when in former years they would have hit every single one they were eligible for. Wouldn't the shows be better off and make more money in the end with individual exhibitors paying about the same amount of money they are now but far more of them and each one entering many more classes?

I completely understand about class lists and that was not my main focus. (Stall costs break the bank for me but I didn't even mention those as I know often that's dictated by the facility.) I just want to know why our clubs are not trying to entice more people to come by whatever means necessary. Obviously show-holders in other parts of the country are.

Leia

 

[Katiean]

Today winds up the 4th day of 2 shows (AMHA) in Reno, NV. I have Never seen the shows soooooo small. I am willing to bet that they actually LOST money on this show. I think the barn shed row is about 10 stalls long. On the first barn there was 1 or 2 stalls used. The other side was full. There were only 4 barns with 2 sides each that were used and none but the first couple were full. But that included tack stalls. What I am trying to say is it was a very small show. They did not offer showing off of the trailer and if you are not a club member they double the entry fee. The stall alone was $100. They had better make some changes or there won't be a show next year. I am 5 miles away from the show grounds and if I could show off my trailer and not pay double the fee because I am not a member of the club (I only attend this show so being a club member is not cost effictive for me) to show I would have been able to show in Country Pleasure and maybe tried the Hunter class. But, when you are making choices on new water heater or show, I will bet that everyone will take new water heater first.

 

[LindaL]

I understand totally what Leia is saying about having to "pick and choose" having been from the NW and showing there. I also gave up showing AMHA, because I could not afford to attend both registry's shows, especially when they were 2 weekends in a row (or even every other weekend).

Now that I am living in Florida, I like how they run their shows. They combine weekends for BOTH registries...usually Saturday is AMHR and Sunday is AMHA, a few are Friday/Saturday AM for AMHR and saturday PM/Sunday for AMHA. This allows people who show both registries to do so in one weekend.

There is a show coming up in June that is a flat fee show (I think that is where you thought to ask about it Leia...seeing it advertised on the saleboard?) and actually unless you have a horse that shows more than halter (or even 2 horses that do), it doesn't pay. This is for people who have all-around horses or more than 2 horses to show per registry. For us to show our 2 in halter only it will be $240 ($60 less than the flat fee of $300).

It is meant as an incentive for trainers and people who want more competition to come show, so I do think it is a good idea.

 

[Field-of-Dreams]

I think it’s important to look at the big picture here. Without knowing what the costs are for shows back East, it’s hard to judge what the NW clubs can/can’t do. Before we started having to put on shows, I had NO idea what it cost to put on a 3 day, 3 judge show, and I can tell you now it’s EXPENSIVE here. The clubs do not make money, we are fortunate if we break even. To cover our costs, we have to charge what we charge, so we can continue to even offer shows year after year, and offer all of the “extras” that people want and expect. Judges fees go up, facility fees go up, cost of ribbons go up, and in this economy, sponsorships can be hard to come by too. And as far as classes, if we offered all of the classes people want, we would be up showing at 1 a.m., and the people requesting all of these classes aren’t the ones having to take all of the complaints when the show goes into the wee hours of the morning. Our club offers a lot of classes and we do our best to make sure there is something for everyone, but we can’t put in every class that everyone wants. I’m very sorry you can’t afford to make it to the next show, it’s not uncommon at all for people to have to pick and choose what shows they can/can’t make it to, but please do not be too hard on the clubs. We do the best we can with what we have to work with, and I assure you, we’re not looking to turn a profit, we’re looking to make sure future shows are feasible.
Just my two cents worth. I think people sometimes forgot to think about what exactly goes into putting on a show. It is a lot of hard work and there are a lot of costs involved, and I feel bad for the clubs and people running the shows who never seem to get the appreciation that is deserved.

But wouldn't it be better if Leia would pay her flat fee and show at all three shows, instead of having to pick and choose which show she goes to, meaning NOT going to one at all??? And if several people did this, the show is LOSING $$ instead of gaining $$$.

 

[gvpalominominis]

Ironically, I've recently chatted w/some AMHR show managers from the midwest and Eastern US about this very thing.

We put on 3-4 shows a year at our show barn... and I'm on 3 breed-show committees... This year especially we've looked at LOWERING and REDUCING fees to entice exhibitors. Whether it's all-day fees, or severely reduced class fees.

I have NOT seen that at most of the AMHR/ASPC shows in the NW. Comparing premiums for the last 2-3 years - prices are going UP?!

Now I KNOW it's NOT more $ to rent facilities for minis - the AMHR judges I know are LESS than we're paying for APHA, ApHC, etc... so I agree 100% why aren't the costs LOWER?

This is not aimed at any particular person... just info.

I HAVE been to shows in other parts of the country and the NW has the most expensive facility charges and stall charges comparatively for its local shows. For instance, due to better weather ie: rain, many shows can held in outside arenas... I'm not sure what the cost is for an outside arena, but I'll bet it is not $12,000 for the weekend. The stalls at an Ohio show I went to were only $15 to the exhibitor for the weekend, NOT $50-$60 cost to the club. We have to fly in most judges and hotel costs here are outrageous too est. cost per judge per show $2,000. So if there are to be comparisons... they'd need to be apples to apples.

AND YES... sometimes the facilites DO charge more for Miniature Horse clubs because most only have 1 show a year instead of several... in fact we even get bumped from our dates so the facilities can accommodate the clubs who put on more shows... ie: Pintos, Arabs etc. and those new dates to choose from are not always the most advantageous for getting more exhibitors.

Pacifc Crown Club - the show referred to in two weeks in this thread, IS looking into flat fee classes etc. But we needed more research on the subject and couldn't do it unfortunately for this year. Some facts we need to know for instance, did the reduced class fees and show charges actually bring in more exhibitors or did about the same amount enter and the club just made less money by offering that? Show us the facts and figures.... please. Prove that it works "better". We put on shows for the exhibitors and members NOT to make money. But we can't lose money at every show and survive.... so what do you want?

Last year, we had a great show and good entries... the "show" actually still lost money, but because of our sponsorships and additional memberships gained... we did okay for the year overall.

I've personally worked on several clubs EXTENSIVELY donating many many many many hours of my time and money by soliciting for sponsorships for awards for the exhibitors(try this sometime... it's not easy!), providing low cost advertising by donating the time and supplies for the exhibitors, providing show programs FOR the exhibitors and to to be honest, the lack of support for clubs from its general membership overall really does determine what a club can and can't do and have to charge.... even its survival in general. WHAT have you guys done for your clubs lately? Even just your time? We all work too.

Pheew! Sorry... guess this subject hit a nerve.... LOL LOL

 

[gvpalominominis]

But wouldn't it be better if Leia would pay her flat fee and show at all three shows, instead of having to pick and choose which show she goes to, meaning NOT going to one at all??? And if several people did this, the show is LOSING $$ instead of gaining $$$.

We DO want Leia and other one to two horse owners to be able to show at all the shows... but not at the expense of having to close down the club because it went bankrupt. You just can't give everything away or under cost. My suggestion is for exhibitors do what I try to do, make extra money on the off season and tuck it away to be able to show your horse(s). Do something to support the expense of your hobby... please don't put the burden of the economy on your local clubs, they won't survive if you do.

 

[ClickMini]

One thing to look at is the REASONS that Leia is choosing the other shows. I haven't looked at the premium myself, but if the ammy classes are the same cost as the open, that is out of sync with the rest of the shows, for sure.

I will be showing AMHA when I can for the time being, because they have youth divisions for age 7 & under. Interestingly, there were 5 youths in this age group at the Sea-Tac show. That's a fair amount of kids in that bracket, if you ask me. Especially since it was a very small show.

The absolute BIGGEST issue this year for the AMHR shows is the scheduling. NO WAY can someone like me attend shows with this kind of scheduling, I would HAVE to pick and choose. I typically bring 3 to 4 horses to a show. Have a few like me not show up, and it starts to hurt pretty badly. I was looking at my checkbook the other day from a past year, and one of the first checks I saw was to a show and it was $740. I would say that is not an insignificant #.

 

[MountainMeadows]

As has been mentioned, it is VERY expensive to put on a show here in the Pacific NW. Easily $20,000 for a 3 judge show with ribbons and modest trophies. It is imperative that we get support not only in entry fees, but also in sponsorships for these shows to break even. The local clubs that are putting on AMHR/ASPC shows are listing over 300 classes to be availble to show in - just buying ribbons is a huge undertaking since we all know that many of the classes won't have horses in them - but we need to make sure that we DO have enough ribbons for MOST of the classes. If you figure that at an ASPC/AMHR show that you will purchase ribbons for 120 classes that means that if your total cost for the show is about $20,000+ then EACH class needs to have $166 in entry money - or 7 entries - I can assure you that many of the classes will NOT have 7 entries, so the burden shifts to other classes in HOPES that there will be enough entries to break even at the end. Obviously if you purchase for more than 120 classes your costs of the show will go up and you will need to bring in even more.

In years past the NWMHC did try an AMHA/AMHR show that was on one weekend - it was at a crappy time of year ( tail end of August and only a couple of weeks before most were heading out to the AMHR National show) and the show lost money so trying this kind of show hasn't been popular ever since then. Our local clubs are "aligned" with EITHER AMHR or AMHA so having a show that includes both registries kind of goes against the grain of some of the members of the clubs -- (personally I believe it is the best way to put on a show these days and have expressed my opinion on many occassions but this is not the popular vote)

I am not sure what we would have to charge to cover our expenses for a "flat fee" show, but it you consider that entries are down all across the nation due the economy and high gas prices I can easily see that we would need to charge approx $200 to cover the cost of such a show (based on about 115 entries and a cost of $20,000+) - I am not sure that would work out well for a lot of people since a lot of folks only enter 1 or 2 classes and their cost for 1 horse at a show would therefore be only around $100 (including stalls). Would there be enough folks who bought the flat fee option to make up the difference? - Not sure, but I doubt it since in order for that to pencil out you would need to enter your horse in 6 classes - and that is quite a few for one horse to go into unless it is being shown in Youth, Ammy, Open and a bunch of Performance classes - in that case I could totally understand wanting a flat fee per horse and perhaps that is something that we should look into - any suggestions on how to propose such a fee structure would gladly be looked at by the clubs -- it is always in the Club's interest to improve participation at the shows and any way to do so would be welcomed.

It must be understood that the Clubs have a lot of hidden expenses to just "existing" - ie there is insurance, newsletters, gifts for outgoing officers, cost of reserving rooms for meetings, etc, all those expenses need to be covered and rarely are covered by the cost of your Membership fee - therefore the shows need to at least break even, to lose money means that eventually the club will go bankrupt and then there won't be a show at all, let alone all the other things that the clubs offer to a miniature horse enthusiast.

There is no magic formula that will make everyone happy all the time - but in tough times like we are facing today, ANY monetary support that can be given to the clubs will help with the bottom line and hopefully ensure the the clubs will be able to survive -

Thanks for letting me "rant"

Stacy

 

[gvpalominominis]

One thing to look at is the REASONS that Leia is choosing the other shows. I haven't looked at the premium myself, but if the ammy classes are the same cost as the open, that is out of sync with the rest of the shows, for sure.

I will be showing AMHA when I can for the time being, because they have youth divisions for age 7 & under. Interestingly, there were 5 youths in this age group at the Sea-Tac show. That's a fair amount of kids in that bracket, if you ask me. Especially since it was a very small show.

The absolute BIGGEST issue this year for the AMHR shows is the scheduling. NO WAY can someone like me attend shows with this kind of scheduling, I would HAVE to pick and choose. I typically bring 3 to 4 horses to a show. Have a few like me not show up, and it starts to hurt pretty badly. I was looking at my checkbook the other day from a past year, and one of the first checks I saw was to a show and it was $740. I would say that is not an insignificant #.

No-one and no exhibitor is insignificant and that was NEVER said, nor implied Amy. = ) The scheduling which was explained early was due to the moving of Congress and availability of facilities! Showing IS just plain expensive, and again... things must be compared apples to apples. The club that is offering the lowest class prices is the show that their ribbons and certain other expenses are being subsidized by AMHR because they are the National Area Show one of the perks of being the Area show AND they only have the expense of ONE judge. If exhibitors don't care about nice and/or special awards for all their hard work when they win, and just want lower class fees instead and that's all... clubs can do that. = )

Historically, we have not had the youth turnout as such. Did the AMHA local club lower their fees this year? Anyone is welcome to ask for classes and if there is sufficient warrant for the class... it can be added. But not less than two weeks before the show. If only there was a crystal ball available. LOL LOL

Oh and by the way, THANK YOU ALL for sharing your ideas. We not only absolutely LOVE having everyone's entry support, but will listen to your input. How can you all help more? Become members, give a little bit of your time to the club, come to the meetings to share your ideas about class lists and such and don't leave it all up to a just a few members. Get involved so you can understand the WHY's to financial decision making. = )

 

[Candi]

This is not aimed at any particular person... just info.

I HAVE been to shows in other parts of the country and the NW has the most expensive facility charges and stall charges comparatively for its local shows. For instance, due to better weather ie: rain, many shows can held in outside arenas... I'm not sure what the cost is for an outside arena, but I'll bet it is not $12,000 for the weekend. The stalls at an Ohio show I went to were only $15 to the exhibitor for the weekend, NOT $50-$60 cost to the club. We have to fly in most judges and hotel costs here are outrageous too est. cost per judge per show $2,000. So if there are to be comparisons... they'd need to be apples to apples.

AND YES... sometimes the facilites DO charge more for Miniature Horse clubs because most only have 1 show a year instead of several... in fact we even get bumped from our dates so the facilities can accommodate the clubs who put on more shows... ie: Pintos, Arabs etc. and those new dates to choose from are not always the most advantageous for getting more exhibitors.

Pacifc Crown Club - the show referred to in two weeks in this thread, IS looking into flat fee classes etc. But we needed more research on the subject and couldn't do it unfortunately for this year. Some facts we need to know for instance, did the reduced class fees and show charges actually bring in more exhibitors or did about the same amount enter and the club just made less money by offering that? Show us the facts and figures.... please. Prove that it works "better". We put on shows for the exhibitors and members NOT to make money. But we can't lose money at every show and survive.... so what do you want?

Last year, we had a great show and good entries... the "show" actually still lost money, but because of our sponsorships and additional memberships gained... we did okay for the year overall.

I've personally worked on several clubs EXTENSIVELY donating many many many many hours of my time and money by soliciting for sponsorships for awards for the exhibitors(try this sometime... it's not easy!), providing low cost advertising by donating the time and supplies for the exhibitors, providing show programs FOR the exhibitors and to to be honest, the lack of support for clubs from its general membership overall really does determine what a club can and can't do and have to charge.... even its survival in general. WHAT have you guys done for your clubs lately? Even just your time? We all work too.

Pheew! Sorry... guess this subject hit a nerve.... LOL LOL

Responding as my post was "quoted" to respond to...

 

I can tell you that for Central and Eastern WA it's not $12,000 to rent the fairgrounds for 3 days! That's using 2 indoor arenas and 2 outdoor arenas, and stalls. We can put an entire APHA or ApHC BREED SHOW on for 200 participants for about that price- TOTAL. And, when I go to shows that are held at the SAME place (fairgrounds, etc) and I see stalls costs range from $20/night to $75/night - that's just CRAZY! I know that it's always been a big $$ raiser to charge high fees for stalls- but it's killing exhibitors.

I am/was not referring to any show in particular - but I will say we would have been at the PacCrown show if we didn't already have a large Dressage show we have to attend.

"WHAT have you guys done for your clubs lately?" Well as I stated above - I'm ON several show committees - and as a judge I can tell you that I SEE what goes into running shows at many levels. NOT denying that here

But, I am NOT active in any AMHR clubs- not from lack-of-interest, but because there AREN'T ANY active clubs over here. To which I find disturbing given the # of miniature horses and shetland pony breeders, and owners in this area...

 

[gvpalominominis]

Forgot to mention that the Pacific Crown Club offers NECK RIBBONS for their amateur halter winners AND have Amateur High Point special awards - halter & performance. What are the other clubs offering for their amateurs? = )

I don't know about other amateurs, but I like receiving something special for my wins and all my effort.

 

[gvpalominominis]

Responding as my post was "quoted" to respond to...

 

I can tell you that for Central and Eastern WA it's not $12,000 to rent the fairgrounds for 3 days! That's using 2 indoor arenas and 2 outdoor arenas, and stalls. We can put an entire APHA or ApHC BREED SHOW on for 200 participants for about that price- TOTAL. And, when I go to shows that are held at the SAME place (fairgrounds, etc) and I see stalls costs range from $20/night to $75/night - that's just CRAZY! I know that it's always been a big $$ raiser to charge high fees for stalls- but it's killing exhibitors.

I am/was not referring to any show in particular - but I will say we would have been at the PacCrown show if we didn't already have a large Dressage show we have to attend.

"WHAT have you guys done for your clubs lately?" Well as I stated above - I'm ON several show committees - and as a judge I can tell you that I SEE what goes into running shows at many levels. NOT denying that here

But, I am NOT active in any AMHR clubs- not from lack-of-interest, but because there AREN'T ANY active clubs over here. To which I find disturbing given the # of miniature horses and shetland pony breeders, and owners in this area...

Thanks Candi! (quoted earlier just for reference point) Figures that are nice to be able to example/refer to. Not sure where you are located... but it could be that the clubs are not big enough to finacially be able to put on a show. Glad you are a supporter! Cutos!

FYI... the "what have you done for your clubs lately"... is a general statement/question... you know like the saying what have you done for me lately?

 

[Candi]

Thanks Candi! (quoted earlier just for reference point) Figures that are nice to be able to example/refer to. Not sure where you are located... but it could be that the clubs are not big enough to finacially be able to put on a show. Glad you are a supporter! Cutos!

FYI... the "what have you done for your clubs lately"... is a general statement/question... you know the saying what have you done for me lately?

LOL I figured, but *had* to reply

We're in E WA - Spokane. Not only are there SEVERAL breeders of AMHR and ASPC horses here - there are also SEVERAL "mini" trainers. I'd have thought that there would be a club (active one) and SHOWS here. There are NUMEROUS equestrian centers suitable for hosting shows (which many breeds utilize) and yet NO AMHR/ASPC shows here?!

Closest shows we have are the Kalispell (which DANG IT is same weekend as our big ApHC show) and then Belgrade, MT (which we're going to!)

 

[gvpalominominis]

LOL I figured, but *had* to reply

We're in E WA - Spokane. Not only are there SEVERAL breeders of AMHR and ASPC horses here - there are also SEVERAL "mini" trainers. I'd have thought that there would be a club (active one) and SHOWS here. There are NUMEROUS equestrian centers suitable for hosting shows (which many breeds utilize) and yet NO AMHR/ASPC shows here?!

Closest shows we have are the Kalispell (which DANG IT is same weekend as our big ApHC show) and then Belgrade, MT (which we're going to!)

Isn't there the Central Washington Miniature Horse Club? and I thought there was another club on the other side of the mountains too. = ) I think they use to have a show... but wasn't enough exhibitor support... but don't quote me on that one... I don't know for sure. I knew there was one or more shows in MT or ID.

Maybe you should start one then. Actually, you don't have to be a club to put on a sanctioned show... go for it.

 

[Candi]

Isn't there the Central Washington Miniature Horse Club? and I thought there was another club on the other side of the mountains too. = ) I think they use to have a show... but wasn't enough exhibitor support... but don't quote me on that one... I don't know for sure. I knew there was one or more shows in MT or ID.

Maybe you should start one then. Actually, you don't have to be a club to put on a sanctioned show... go for it.

LOL now that's just harsh

We hardly know each other and you're already trying to KILL ME

Joking aside- like most - I have NO time to start clubs or start new shows... being a fulltime trainer of a busy show barn (of 5 breeds and 6 disciplines) - and being a PT (soon-to-be NO time) Judge - and Coaching and Refereeing volleyball 9 months of the year- I'm lucky I know my own name and where the heck I am!

 

[chessyboom]

I live in Spokane WA area as well. Our local club didn't have enough people attending the shows like Joanne said. However, we do have a small fun show type club that is growing in the area. It is very reasonable to attend. Just you do not get AMHR points. Still very fun and you get to show your minis locally. I personally just attend a few AMHR sanctioned ones to get qualified for nationals and the rest of the time I'm attending these small open fun shows. They are only $4.00 a class for members and only $5 a class non-members. Great group of people, and you can show out of your trailer or get a stall for the day at a very reasonable fee.

this is the club website. http://spokanesasha.webs.com/

We actually have a show this coming saturday May 14th in Mead WA which is maybe 10min north of spokane.

 

[gvpalominominis]

LOL now that's just harsh

We hardly know each other and you're already trying to KILL ME

Joking aside- like most - I have NO time to start clubs or start new shows... being a fulltime trainer of a busy show barn (of 5 breeds and 6 disciplines) - and being a PT (soon-to-be NO time) Judge - and Coaching and Refereeing volleyball 9 months of the year- I'm lucky I know my own name and where the heck I am!

I hear and feel for ya girl! I maintain/manage my own 20+ horse breeding & show barn, work/train my 3-4 show horses myself (attempt anyway), self monitor foaling mares, work several new start up businesses from my home office - (gotta pay the bills somehow and just recently changed businesses), take special interest classes at the college, take care of my elderly father who now lives with us, try to go to grandkids sporting events when I can AND volunteer as much as I can to now only 1 club... I have no down time... My office looks like a hoarder lives in it... with all the projects I have going on. Oh and I have a husband... LOL LOL Needless to say, it will have to be cut back again for next year. = ) I know... whaa whaa