Why do none of the NW AMHR shows offer package deals?

[Candi]

I live in Spokane WA area as well. Our local club didn't have enough people attending the shows like Joanne said. However, we do have a small fun show type club that is growing in the area. It is very reasonable to attend. Just you do not get AMHR points. Still very fun and you get to show your minis locally. I personally just attend a few AMHR sanctioned ones to get qualified for nationals and the rest of the time I'm attending these small open fun shows. They are only $4.00 a class for members and only $5 a class non-members. Great group of people, and you can show out of your trailer or get a stall for the day at a very reasonable fee.

this is the club website. http://spokanesasha.webs.com/

We actually have a show this coming saturday May 14th in Mead WA which is maybe 10min north of spokane.

There are TONS of shows to simply "show" our minis for fun - and most are USEF and/or WSH approved. We certainly don't have time for many (if any) "fun" shows... but would LOVE to have some actual AMHR/ASPC shows in this area.

Something "old timers" in each area need to realize that the horse industry (like most industries) is a fluctuating beast. Meaning that what was/wasn't popular some years ago - might be all the rage now.

Meaning that - just because shows were tried and unsuccessful before - doesn't mean that's the case now. Look between Annette and Lori's barns alone - how many potential exhibitors there are? Add to that the folks that show WSH that would LOVE to have AMHR shows local. There's 30-40 participants.

And, the "small fun show type club" has been around for 12 years... Their numbers stay fairly close to 20+/- at each show. Great for little kids or rank beginners, but doesn't help those that want more real shows.

 

[Candi]

I hear and feel for ya girl! I maintain/manage my own 20+ horse breeding & show barn, work/train my 3-4 show horses myself (attempt anyway), self monitor foaling mares, work several new start up businesses from my home office - (gotta pay the bills somehow and just recently changed businesses), take special interest classes at the college, take care of my elderly father who now lives with us, try to go to grandkids sporting events when I can AND volunteer as much as I can to now only 1 club... I have no down time... My office looks like a hoarder lives in it... with all the projects I have going on. Oh and I have a husband... LOL LOL Needless to say, it will have to be cut back again for next year. = ) I know... whaa whaa

OMG - see already I've lost it. I guess I'm a PT wife as well. I say PT only as my hubby is lucky I remember where HOME and FAMILY is

Poor men!

 

[chessyboom]

LOL. I just checked out your site and see that I know you anyway I emailed you and you are welcome to carpool with me if you want to save on that part of the showing. That is how I make it more affordable for myself is carpooling. But you are closer to Annette so you could even talk to her about it

I know nothing about putting a show on but if there was a sanctioned show in spokane area I'd be entering it as well which I have gone to all the spokane area ones in the past. I was a memeber of the local AMHR club while it was in place. Actually the last show that was put on by the club a memeber funded it herself but there was such a low amount of entrants that she barely broke even.

 

[MountainMeadows]

For those in the Spokane-ish are the lowest cost way to put on a show is to ask to put on a Hardship show (both AMHR and AMHA offer those) and to throw in with one of the fairs so that your cost of putting on the show is really only the price of the judge/s and ribbons/trophies. This is how the NWMHC used to put on shows and we did it that way for many, many years - until we outgrew the amount of stalls the the amount of time that the fair could allow. But, I will say that it was probably THE best venue to showcase your horses at - that was what helped the NWMHC grow to become one of the largest clubs in the country and which also spurred off into several other clubs. Back then we had volunteers doing all the announcing and ring steward & ribbons, etc and it was really a lot of fun - hard works for sure, but fun none-the-less and it was really rewarding to introduce the minis to new people. As it stands now, the only "public" appearance that the minis make in the NW is at the Oregon State Fair and I know that they are always a big hit there.

If someone in the Spokane area has the drive to make a few phone calls, I would bet that you would be able to find several opportunities to show the horses. The hardship class list is really pretty basic.

Stacy

 

[Candi]

For those in the Spokane-ish are the lowest cost way to put on a show is to ask to put on a Hardship show (both AMHR and AMHA offer those) and to throw in with one of the fairs so that your cost of putting on the show is really only the price of the judge/s and ribbons/trophies. This is how the NWMHC used to put on shows and we did it that way for many, many years - until we outgrew the amount of stalls the the amount of time that the fair could allow. But, I will say that it was probably THE best venue to showcase your horses at - that was what helped the NWMHC grow to become one of the largest clubs in the country and which also spurred off into several other clubs. Back then we had volunteers doing all the announcing and ring steward & ribbons, etc and it was really a lot of fun - hard works for sure, but fun none-the-less and it was really rewarding to introduce the minis to new people. As it stands now, the only "public" appearance that the minis make in the NW is at the Oregon State Fair and I know that they are always a big hit there.

If someone in the Spokane area has the drive to make a few phone calls, I would bet that you would be able to find several opportunities to show the horses. The hardship class list is really pretty basic.

Stacy

Humm... sounds interesting! I will for SURE be checking into this! While the Spokane Interstate Fair is a BUGGAR to deal with... there are "other" fairs to which we could use. The Deer Park/Clayton Fair has a nice arena/grandstand to use - though there aren't any stalls. I wonder if folks would come to a super inexpensive AMHR show if there were no stalls, but could stall in trailer overnight?! I KNOW I could get things rolling there quite easily.

 

[Candi]

LOL. I just checked out your site and see that I know you anyway I emailed you and you are welcome to carpool with me if you want to save on that part of the showing. That is how I make it more affordable for myself is carpooling. But you are closer to Annette so you could even talk to her about it

I know nothing about putting a show on but if there was a sanctioned show in spokane area I'd be entering it as well which I have gone to all the spokane area ones in the past. I was a memeber of the local AMHR club while it was in place. Actually the last show that was put on by the club a memeber funded it herself but there was such a low amount of entrants that she barely broke even.

Is this Jes?

If so, then yes I know you already - though not very well

I'm going to look into the "hardship" show idea from below - whatcha think?

Also - are you going to Belgrade? I can't make it to Kalispell though I'd LOVE to!

 

[chessyboom]

Is this Jes?

If so, then yes I know you already - though not very well

I'm going to look into the "hardship" show idea from below - whatcha think?

Also - are you going to Belgrade? I can't make it to Kalispell though I'd LOVE to!

Yup it's me Jes

that hardship thing is cool. I never knew about it. I'd attend any AMHR or AMHA sanctioned show in the spokane area

never heard of Belgrade. I'm going to Kalispell/Deer Lodge MT, Blackfoot and possibly Caldwell ID, Evergreen show in June for Spanaway WA. Plus all 3 SASHA shows, and AMHR Nationals.

 

[chessyboom]

the CDA fair is in August and there are no AMHR sanctioned shows that I can think of close by that month, so that is a good place to maybe try and get a show going there too

 

[MountainMeadows]

Might try looking into the Draft Horse Extravaganza in Sandpoint,ID if it is still going on - I know that is a big draw. The NWMHC used to show at the AppleCup in Wenatchee and also at a couple of the other fairs over in Eastern WA. I know that we worked really hard to get into the Spokane fair, but at the time they were talking about "benching" us so that we were there everyday for nearly 3 weeks and it just wasn't possible to take that much time off - A lot of the fairs/expos are also happy to let you come in and do kins of a "showcase" type of quickie exhibition to get people interested -- trust me, we did a lot of that sort of thing back in the 1980's!

 

[chessyboom]

Thanks Stacy those are some awesome ideas. Now we just gotta get the Spokane area people to get together and see what we can figure out

 

[Candi]

the CDA fair is in August and there are no AMHR sanctioned shows that I can think of close by that month, so that is a good place to maybe try and get a show going there too

That might be a good one - though I have 3 shows in August that we HAVE to attend that might prohibit it. Have to check when the DeerPark/Clayton Fair is...

 

[MountainMeadows]

I feel like I need to inject a thought into those who are looking at a Hardship show - I know that I was the one who turned on that lightbulb - and I still believe it is a great way to get the horses to qualfying shows with less expense --- BUT BUT BUT - let's also remember the Clubs that already are trying to make ends meet - and if at all possibly PLEASE support them with a donation if you are not able to attend -- it truly is what makes it or breaks it for a lot of these little clubs - and again, the clubs offer so much to all of us it would be a shame to see any of them flounder. Every little bit helps ! ! !

Thanks folks ! ! !

Stacy

 

[Minimor]

What is a hardship show in terms of AMHR? I've been through the required class lists multiple times the last couple years and have never seen anything about an AMHR hardship show. There are performance shows I think, and regular AMHR shows and fair shows and of course ASPC has several different ratings for their shows, each rating has a different number of required classes.

The fair show is a great thing--it takes less money to put on the show, because you get triple points but only have to hire one judge.

Here the shows do offer two entry fees--the regular class fee for a single class and the unlimited fee. Single classes are $15 and unlimited is $45. Youth classes are $7, while Ammy classes are the same $15 as open classes. I don't know if the unlimited fee brings in that many more entries. I don't think a lot of people use the unlimited fee, but some do. In most cases people don't enter more than 3 or 4 classes per horse anyway. The shows here general have 3 or 4 judges; the fair show of course has just 1 judge but offers triple points.

Costs add up very quickly when a show has 3 or 4 judges. Judges generally charge $250 to $350 per day for their services. They may have some additional expenses that they expect to have reimbursed, or they may not--it depends. Then of course there is airfare, and hotel accomodations. Same expenses for the steward. Then tehre is the facility rental and extras such as insurance, sometimes equipment/sound rental...meals for officials during the show...

Maybe a large show with $100+ horses can pay expenses without having sponsorships for the show, and maybe in some areas exhibitors will pay high enough entry fees that the shows don't need sponsorships. Here, we do have to have sponsorships in order to make the shows break even--if the entry fees were high enough that expenses would be covered without sponsorships to help out...at least some of the exhibitors that come out to these shows could not afford to show...and so expenses would still far exceed revenue!

 

[PaintedValleyMiniatures]

I don't normally post here (mostly use the sale board) but I've been thinking about this topic a lot lately.

Here in East Central Kansas, the closest AMHR show is 3 1/2 hours away (either Lyons, Lincoln, Columbia or Tulsa). I graduated from college in 2009 and have been working full time ever since but with the other expenses in life and trying to save some serious money for a house down payment, I'm not going to be able to show in AMHR this year. I'm getting married in September 2012 so I probably won't be able to swing it next year either.

I don't know what entry fees are like other places but we are looking at either $20 a class or a $75 flat fee. Add $45 for stalls (which I think is pretty reasonable-and I understand the facility dictates this cost) and fuel and it's hard to make it work. Plus the trailer needs new tires if we are going to travel over an hour away...it just adds up.

We are going to an ADS show instead this year (did the same thing last year) and while we don't get any AMHR points, they do offer payback and prizes somehow. AND the show is an hour away. Of course if there was an AMHR show that same weekend that was an hour away I would find a way to make it work.

Though it devastates me to miss another year of AMHR (my oldest gelding is this close to his HOF) it really took a lot of stress off of me when I decided to go the ADS route. I'm a very financially minded person and know that I won't regret saving the money when we have a big piece of land one day

My hope is that once we buy a house and the wedding is over we will get the opportunity to show in AMHR again, but until then, I will remember to just enjoy my horses, AMHR show or not!

 

[hobbyhorse23]

Thank you all so much for all this input!! I truly did not mean this thread to be a complaint but rather an honest inquiry as to WHY nothing had changed with our local shows and a lot of great organizers are kicking in here with comments. Thank you!

There is a show coming up in June that is a flat fee show (I think that is where you thought to ask about it Leia...seeing it advertised on the saleboard?)

Nope, I've just seen a lot of people on LB talking about such things and been jealous.

and actually unless you have a horse that shows more than halter (or even 2 horses that do), it doesn't pay. This is for people who have all-around horses or more than 2 horses to show per registry. For us to show our 2 in halter only it will be $240 ($60 less than the flat fee of $300). It is meant as an incentive for trainers and people who want more competition to come show, so I do think it is a good idea.

Would there be enough folks who bought the flat fee option to make up the difference? - Not sure, but I doubt it since in order for that to pencil out you would need to enter your horse in 6 classes - and that is quite a few for one horse to go into unless it is being shown in Youth, Ammy, Open and a bunch of Performance classes - in that case I could totally understand wanting a flat fee per horse and perhaps that is something that we should look into - any suggestions on how to propose such a fee structure would gladly be looked at by the clubs -- it is always in the Club's interest to improve participation at the shows and any way to do so would be welcomed.

Absolutely. When I made the suggestion I had expected that it would be an option people could select for their all-around horses, not a set flat fee for each exhibitor no matter what they were entering. I come from a 4-H background where every horse was an all-arounder and most of us went in 13 classes a day!

When I first showed Kody he entered Open, Ammy, and Ladies driving, Open and Ammy Jumper, Open and Ammy Obstacle and Obstacle Driving, Liberty, and any fun classes that might be offered like Disciplined Rail Driving. We were also training for Versatility. That's what, at least ten classes a show? Turbo will be able to do all the same classes plus Hunter and Halter classes (both Open and Ammy) so he's looking at 12-14 classes a show. At $24 a class times even 10 classes that's $240 PER HORSE, plus a $60 stall per horse...we're looking at at least $600 per show which let me tell you ain't in my budget no matter how many extra hours I work!

Especially when those shows are crammed in two or three per month early in the year.

I want those high points. I want those all-around amateur titles. But it isn't going to happen unless I either go back to only showing one horse (which most mini people don't) or the clubs start offering a package deal where you get eight classes for the cost of five or something. Even an "All-Around Amateur Package" would be helpful- maybe any four amateur classes (I figure there's amateur Obstacle, Obstacle Driving, Jumper, Hunter, Driving, Showmanship and Halter) and maybe two open classes (Liberty and Versatility, whatever they chose) for a package price? That's probably getting too specific but you know what I mean. Something that opens it up for people to go in more performance classes than they can currently afford.

You already have to buy the ribbons and offer the classes. You already have to pay the judges for all those classes regardless of entry numbers in them. You need a set amount of money to break even. Totally understood. With a package deal the performance exhibitors would be spending the same amount of money they are now or a little more but going in many more classes without (as far as I can see) costing the club anything more and suddenly there's actually some competition and people are earning some points and having a good time like we used to.

I don't make these comments with the intention of putting our individual economic woes onto the clubs; more saying that I see a problem with low entries getting worse and I wondered if there wasn't a solution that would work for both the clubs and the showers to encourage more entries in each class.

Most of us are already carpooling, combining stalls, camping instead of staying in hotels, skipping unnecessary classes, leaving more horses at home and not traveling as far as we used to (not to mention eating Top Ramen and working overtime.) There isn't much more left to cut except skipping the remaining shows entirely.

One thing to look at is the REASONS that Leia is choosing the other shows. I haven't looked at the premium myself, but if the ammy classes are the same cost as the open, that is out of sync with the rest of the shows, for sure.

Forgot to mention that the Pacific Crown Club offers NECK RIBBONS for their amateur halter winners AND have Amateur High Point special awards - halter & performance. What are the other clubs offering for their amateurs? = )
I don't know about other amateurs, but I like receiving something special for my wins and all my effort.

Absolutely!

Mentioning that in your advertising might have been a good idea.

I know it would have made me think twice about withdrawing my entry and would have explained some of the higher ammy entry costs. I did NOT withdraw from the show because of those issues, in fact not for any reason except personal timing and weather and work conflicts, but the higher ammy fees was one more thing that did not entice me to stay and engendered my inquiry here on LB.

I feel like I need to inject a thought into those who are looking at a Hardship show - I know that I was the one who turned on that lightbulb - and I still believe it is a great way to get the horses to qualfying shows with less expense --- BUT BUT BUT - let's also remember the Clubs that already are trying to make ends meet - and if at all possibly PLEASE support them with a donation if you are not able to attend -- it truly is what makes it or breaks it for a lot of these little clubs - and again, the clubs offer so much to all of us it would be a shame to see any of them flounder. Every little bit helps ! ! !
Thanks folks ! ! !

Stacy

You're absolutely right. I've tried to support them with my entry dollars even when things are tight but admit freely that's the ONLY thing I've done for my local clubs and maybe I need to be doing more.

Leia

 

[gvpalominominis]

Hey Leia... I did send out information about extra awards we were giving out... you're right I didn't mention the special ammy awards, just an oversight I guess on a crowded announcement flyer, but to say we didn't offer anything but a potluck dinner (main meats and drink are supplied by the club)in your original post...was... well, kinda insulting to our club. Especially if your decision not to show there was due to other issues... Not sure what was meant by the weather? Can't control that... = ) Some of our sponsored awards even come all the way from Australia!

We are the only show that is offering $$ payout Breeder's Cup Classes for yearlings and it's no small amount either.... just ask last year's winner and this year offers even more in the pot. These classes are 100% sponsored and so do not affect the expense of the show. We'd like to have offered more... but to be honest... the show is run 90% by Tracy and her husband, and just a few others who volunteer to help.... adding extra NR classes to the length of show hours also has to be considered for the judges, and the staff that is hired and their charges, etc.

Everything sounds so simple and easy on paper... just add this class and that class... but until you (not meaning "you" personally) are the one actually doing the work putting on the show... probably wouldn't understand. I know Tracy and Vince have given up a lot to put on this show the past few years... like the people before them. Volunteers don't get paid for their efforts or get back all the time they put into it ... it's done for the exhibitors such as yourself to try and make it special. I know last year... I was so busy "helping" clubs... I didn't have time to train, condition or even show my own horses. = ) So we hope exhibitors WILL support us with their entries. But if they elect not to come and exhibitors can't make it to our Pacific Crown show for whatever reason, they make it to support one or both of the other sister AMHR/ASPC club's shows in the area. = )

HERE'S A TOAST TO ALL WHO VOLUNTEER THEIR TIME TO PUT ON OUR SHOWS AND ALLOW US THE OPPORTUNITY TO EXHIBIT OUR LITTLE HORSEYS!! THANK YOU FOR ALL THAT YOU DO! GULP GULP (Beer)

 

[Candi]

Hey Leia... I did send out information about extra awards we were giving out... you're right I didn't mention the special ammy awards, just an oversight I guess on a crowded announcement flyer, but to say we didn't offer anything but a potluck dinner (main meats and drink are supplied by the club)in your original post...was... well, kinda insulting to our club. Especially if your decision not to show there was due to other issues... Not sure what was meant by the weather? Can't control that... = ) Some of our sponsored awards even come all the way from Australia!

We are the only show that is offering $ payout Breeder's Cup Classes for yearlings and it's no small amount either.... just ask last year's winner and this year offers even more in the pot. These classes are 100% sponsored and so do not affect the expense of the show. We'd like to have offered more... but to be honest... the show is run 90% by Tracy and her husband, and just a few others who volunteer to help.... adding extra NR classes to the length of show hours also has to be considered for the judges, and the staff that is hired and their charges, etc.

Everything sounds so simple and easy on paper... just add this class and that class... but until you (not meaning "you" personally) are the one actually doing the work putting on the show... probably wouldn't understand. I know Tracy and Vince have given up a lot to put on this show the past few years... like the people before them. Volunteers don't get paid for their efforts or get back all the time they put into it ... it's done for the exhibitors such as yourself to try and make it special. I know last year... I was so busy "helping" clubs... I didn't have time to train, condition or even show my own horses. = ) So we hope exhibitors WILL support us with their entries. But if they elect not to come and exhibitors can't make it to our Pacific Crown show for whatever reason, they make it to support one or both of the other sister AMHR/ASPC club's shows in the area. = )

HERE'S A TOAST TO ALL WHO VOLUNTEER THEIR TIME TO PUT ON OUR SHOWS AND ALLOW US THE OPPORTUNITY TO EXHIBIT OUR LITTLE HORSEYS!! THANK YOU FOR ALL THAT YOU DO! GULP GULP (Beer)

Grumble...

As much as I LOVE hearing about all you're doing at PacCrown... it's making me SAD we can't come!

 

[hobbyhorse23]

Hey Leia... but to say we didn't offer anything but a potluck dinner (main meats and drink are supplied by the club) in your original post...was... well, kinda insulting to our club. Especially if your decision not to show there was due to other issues...

I'm sorry you took my comments personally- there's a reason I didn't mention the name of the club, and that's because my post was not intended as a slap at Pacific Crown. You put on a fine show! I thought I stated clearly that I had personal reasons for having to pull out but it made me think about the sort of things that might have encouraged me (and exhibitors like me) to stay and I wondered why those things weren't being done by any of the four clubs in our area. It was an honest question.

HERE'S A TOAST TO ALL WHO VOLUNTEER THEIR TIME TO PUT ON OUR SHOWS AND ALLOW US THE OPPORTUNITY TO EXHIBIT OUR LITTLE HORSEYS!! THANK YOU FOR ALL THAT YOU DO! GULP GULP (Beer)

Here, here!

Leia

 

[gvpalominominis]

I'm sorry you took my comments personally- there's a reason I didn't mention the name of the club, and that's because my post was not intended as a slap at Pacific Crown. You put on a fine show! I thought I stated clearly that I had personal reasons for having to pull out but it made me think about the sort of things that might have encouraged me (and exhibitors like me) to stay and I wondered why those things weren't being done by any of the four clubs in our area. It was an honest question.

Here, here!

Leia

No worries Leia...it was just kinda hard not to know which club it was...and didn't take it "me" personally ... just the club in general... but no need to dwell... we just hope you are able to attend the show next year. = ) We are listening and will pass along the information. I'm sure whomever will be working the show next year would love to have your input.

 

[gvpalominominis]

Grumble...

As much as I LOVE hearing about all you're doing at PacCrown... it's making me SAD we can't come!

That'll teach ya! It's gonna be an awesome show.... LOL LOL Seriously though... wish you could be there too.