Whip Etiquette - what if??

[ruffian]

At a recent show, I saw several - make that many - drivers holding their whips horizontally across their reins. So the end of the whip was hanging off the side of their carts a good foot or more. My question - what would happen if this interfered with a horse passing? I would be really upset if I was passing and someone brought their whip around in front of my horse, even if unintentionally.

Could the driver holding the whip in an unsafe position be DQ'd? I would hope so, but not sure they would be.

Another driver ( trainer) had a whip that was very long - certainly went beyond the horse's shoulders. I asked a pro trainer about it, and was told "yeah it's a little long, but nobody will say anything" . Where are the judges!!!

 

[Fanch]

I hold my whip off at about 10 o'clock to the horses heads 12 o'clock, this is the correct position aparrently in carriage driving and for me, when I use to hold my whip above the horse, my hands where different, making my half halts different, with it off to the side, my hands are level and the same, so making identical half halts.

I was at a rated show just a few weeks ago and had my whip like this, didn't run into any problems and would be extremely upset if I was to be disqualified for holding it is such a fashion. But thats my opinion.

 

[Jessica_06]

I never really paid attention to how others hold their whips but I hold it straight up, unless I have to give the horse a "tap" But I do know what you mean a friend of mine has a gorgeous gelding that went in a driving ring and the driver in front "I'm guessing accidentally" their whip hit his head when he was driving behind them! I guess he's so frightened about driving now, and he hasn't been in the ring since.

 

[ruffian]

The folks I am describing have them at a 90 degree angle to their reins - not at a 10 o clock position, which should not interfere with another horse.

 

[End Level Farms]

We hold our whips off to the inside so that people stay away from our horses and our tires.

The couple of shows that we didn't hold our whips like that our horse got ran into several times.

If we notice that people are having issues controlling their horses and they come near ours we move the whip so to make sure the horses do not get hit. We hold it mostly that way for the people that know better and buzz other's horses trying to unsettle them.

 

[Field-of-Dreams]

I hold my whip off at about 10 o'clock to the horses heads 12 o'clock.

Me, too. It's easy to use, not in someone's way and comfortable for me.

I'm sorry, I can't imagine hitting someone ELSE'S horse deliberately. I must be naive....

Lucy

 

[Sue_C.]

I hold my whip off at about 10 o'clock to the horses heads 12 o'clock.

Me, too. It's easy to use, not in someone's way and comfortable for me.

I'm sorry, I can't imagine hitting someone ELSE'S horse deliberately. I must be naive....

Ditto that. The whip should be held diagonally across the horse's back, long enough to reach the shoulder of the farthest horse (in multiples) ready to be used as an aide...as that IS what it is...it is your "leg", to be used to guide the horse...not a weapon.

 

[Jean_B]

Another driver ( trainer) had a whip that was very long - certainly went beyond the horse's shoulders. I asked a pro trainer about it, and was told "yeah it's a little long, but nobody will say anything" . Where are the judges!!!

It's not the judges at fault....it's the others in the class who are interfered with who do not lodge a protest with the steward. Judges are not there to enforce the rules - the stewards are. And yes, there ARE drivers (in my opinion) who (seemingly?!?!?!?!?) hold their whip at an angle that it does interfere with horses that are passing on that side. Just watch a few of the driving classes at Nationals and you'll see what I mean.

 

[End Level Farms]

We never hit another persons animal EVER. We simply use it as a deterrent from those that would interfere in our horses go.

 

[crponies]

I cannot believe that people would run into you like that! That should not be tolerated at all and it is a shame you feel the need to defend yourself like that in the show ring.

 

[hobbyhorse23]

The only two acceptable positions for the whip as far as I'm concerned are straight up, in the case of breed show driving with a short lashless whip, or at a 45 degree angle across the horse's body so the lash hangs just off his ribcage or shoulder with the shaft pointing forward to 10 o'clock. If the whip is pointed too high in the air the lash could get tangled in any trees nearby and be pulled out of your hand, and if it's held pointing straight out to the side you risk hitting other horses or getting tangled in any bushes. Also, traditionally the driver always sits on the right so if you hold your whip out to the left you're going to be smacking your passengers. Nope, not acceptable in any venue! That's just poor reinsmanship.

I admit I do have a bit of a problem with that "the whip shall not reach past the horse's shoulder" rule.

Of course the shaft should not be any longer than that, but if you stretch out and include the lash, a regular, correct whip that only reaches the horse's shoulder in use would seem far longer than it is allowed to be. However that length is correct and necessary in a carriage driving whip that is intended to be used. Here's a diagram of how driving whips are measured to show what I mean:

How to measure for a whip

I always worry that someone is going to object to my carriage whip at the breed shows, but that's what my horse and I are used to using and I hold it at the correct angle well out of everyone's way, including my own. I would NEVER touch someone else's horse with it, and in fact find the loud clicking and kissing of other drivers to be far more intrusive.

My question - what would happen if this interfered with a horse passing? I would be really upset if I was passing and someone brought their whip around in front of my horse, even if unintentionally.

I understand your feelings and agree that using a whip to interfer with a passing horse is totally unacceptable, but at the same time I would wonder what the passing driver was doing that close.

Remember we've stated that the whip shaft can't be past the horse's shoulder, and you stated it might be only a foot or so out from the cart. Unless the driver is purposely crowding the other horse in order to rattle them, I can't see why they should ever be that close. And if that's their purpose they deserve what they get!

With some of the things I've seen in my short time in the breed ring I can understand why someone might lay their whip out to "mark their territory" around certain other drivers.

Just my .02. I did not see the incident described so might feel differently if I did.

Leia

 

[sassy1]

I didn't feel any of the poll choices really covered it, so I haven't voted in the poll as I am another one that carries my whip at 10 to 12. I have shown harness horses and ponies for over 30 years and been judged by people from UK, Australia and Europe.

Your whip is your legs. It should be available instantly to use if needed. I don't like whips with no "fall(lash)" to them, as you are very restricted in the subtle use of them. I can use the whip lash on either side of the animal I am driving as and when it is needed, and with a "proper" (nicely balanced) whip that is just a small movement of the hand.

My pet dislike is drivers slapping the horse with the reins as they either don't carry a whip or it is in the whip holder! I really feel for the horses mouth. It is NOT possible to do that without interfering with the horses mouth.

 

[Little Bits]

Being new to the minis I have a few questions on the whip. As Throughbreds and Standbreds have tightend rules on whips. The whips can only be so long and someplaces there are no snappers. Whips can only be used in the stretch and you have to have to hands in the both lines at all times. I find it ironic that the smallest breed has whips 8 feet long with snappers 4 feet long. It seems almost silly to me. If the whip is supposed to be a horse que then why is there a need to have a whip that can touch a horses ears? Maybe the registries should follow suit and require that whips to be a certain length (much shorter in my opinion just bcause it looks so silly) unless they already do that, but are not following through. I personally know of a harness driver who used a jumping bat and was called in because his whip was to short. That was so crazy. A simple tap on the butt should be enough. I personally don't really like whips. I train my horse to move forward with voice comands.

Also I would think that as far as being crowded in the ring and using that as an excuse to have your whip sticking out seem ingnorant. Rules are rules. I would think if a judge should see anyone crowding that should be points off yes or no? With harness racing passing if the inside person moves into your lane while they are passing you and impedes your progress they are disqualified. This should be the same in the show ring. I can understand why people want to crowd people. What so they have to gain. I like to have my horse out where the jugde can see me. I think if you can't controll your horse from running over people hooking wheels or scaring other horses in the ring you have no place in being out there in the first place period. Just my thoughts.

 

[Al B]

I carry my whip at 45/45. That is 45 degrees forward and 45 degrees to the left.

The AMHA Show Rules Committee has just passed (this means a rule proposal was submitted and will be put up for a vote at the next Membership meeting) a rule to limit the length of the whip. The reason given that this rule was submitted was that there have been instances of drivers intentionally interfering with other drivers by hitting the other drivers horse with their whip as they passed. Sad.

 

[MiLo Minis]

I carry my whip at 10 and 11 oclock. Didn't answer the poll either because I couldn't decide where I fit in.

Little Bits: it is actually inappropriate to smack/tap your horse on the butt with a whip. It should be used on either side or on or just behind the saddle. Tapping him on the butt could cause him to buck or bolt.

Speaking from personal experience: certain persons in the breed show ring do resort to dirty, underhanded tactics on a regular basis. Not just improper use of their whip but cutting back in abruptly when passing, passing FAR too closely or driving up on the person from behind FAR too closely just to mention a few. To have to resort to driving in such an irresponsible manner makes me think they really shouldn't be driving in the first place. Pretty pathetic!

 

[Humhill]

I would NEVER touch someone else's horse with it, and in fact find the loud clicking and kissing of other drivers to be far more intrusive.

OMG YES!!! I HATE that!!! My horses respond very well to a simple kiss or cluck, one time. When people drive by clucking or kissing like crazy, my horse wants to GO.

 

[Field-of-Dreams]

I would NEVER touch someone else's horse with it, and in fact find the loud clicking and kissing of other drivers to be far more intrusive.

OMG YES!!! I HATE that!!! My horses respond very well to a simple kiss or cluck, one time. When people drive by clucking or kissing like crazy, my horse wants to GO.

I hear ya! In my class at the Area V show my poor mare didn't know if it was me clucking to her or not, some of the people were so loud! I had a heck of a time keeping her level. She was so confused....

Lucy

 

[Boinky]

should not have to change the rule for whip length but make a rule anyone caught interfering with another horses performance an/or unsafe conduct towards other competitors shall immediatly be excused from the ring an expelled from the show... make the rules/consequences tough and they would be less likely to interfere with other horses.

 

[minih]

If you look in the photo below from Area 5, you can see my daughter holds her hands with the whip straight up and forward and slightly over the horse.

Star and Chasta

 

[stormy]

I encourage everyone that can to watch the Nationals this year. Last year I witnessed (via streaming video) several instances of drivers interfering with other horses by cutting them off or passing in such a way the other driver was forced into the wall...and one case were even I could tell a driver purposely struck another horse with the wheel of their cart in passing! I can understand the fending off with a whip though that is also agressive and improper...until we have rules enforced that penalize this behavior in the ring I can understand the defensive driving.