Where is AMHR going 10 years from now?

[txminipinto]

Ahhh, but therein lies the problem, as I see it. "Staying competative, and following trends", in other breeds, usually means how you dress, show, or otherwise fit your horse/pony...not a change in the breed persay. This is not comparable to that at all. Heck, "trends" change with the wind...we are talking about possibly changing an entire breed.

Like I asked before...why IS IT so hard for some of you to even consider divisions? Why do you who want the Shetland influence, so determined to not consider this? Heck, I love the "B" horses, and yet, don't feel the need to add Shetland blood to them to produce good horses.

That's just the thing you don't understand. They ALREADY have the shetland blood in them! We don't need any more divisions. The shows are long enough. In fact, the shows are so long at this point that if we add any more classes, so everyone has a chance to win, then NO ONE will be able to show because of work and family issues. When I have to be at a local show for half as many days as I would be at National show, that's a problem. We're already spread too thin.

Look at AQHA. They don't have "extra" divisions. You either have a halter horse, or you don't. You either have a performance horse, or you don't. There are very few GOOD All Around horses in the stock world. There are very few GOOD all around horses in the mini world. A super model is not an athlete. An athlete is rarely a super model. Sure, there are horses in the halter class that don't stand a chance. But you don't see those winning halter horses going into performace.

Even the performance horses change as time goes on. You can't stop it. There's ALWAYS someone better, more successful and others will alter their styles to follow suit to be the next one that's always better. Its a ripple effect. You either catch the next wave and try to pass someone up, or just float there and be shark bait.

In reality, it has nothing to do with what people like. It has to do with wanting to win. And if you are fortunate to like what you have in your barn and be able to win with it then you are already ahead of the game.

 

[midnight star stables]

I just don't understand what the huge issue is, but I may be mistaken.

When I see an AMHR/ASPC pony, I see just that. I do not see something magically superior before me. Some AMHR/ASPC ponies are stunning. Just the same as some AMHR and AMHA horses are stunning. Papers are just paper, to a certain extent. There are also some pretty darn ugly horses out there in ASPC, AMHR and AMHA. I almost see an AMHR pony having ASPC papers, like a safety blanket to that of an AMHA pony having AMHR papers - If our height bred horse "goes over"it still has some where to go! I do not see an AMHR/ASPC horse as being "better" for any reason.

At this time, I personally do not own any AMHR/ASPC horses but rather 2(Was 3) AMHR only B ponies(of the five I own). I do not breed, but have sent mares out in an attempt to have them bred. One was an A AMHR/AMHA pony bred to an A AMHR only pony. The other is a B AMHR only bred to an AMHR/ASPC pony. Both foals would have been AMHR only. To me, that is just fine.

I have been looking for the past few years for my "perfect dream" pony. I have looked at AMHR only ponies, AMHR/AMHA ponies and AMHR/ASPC ponies. I seen many I liked, and I turned down many beautiful ponies because I was look for Mr./Mrs. Right. Papers held little importance to me past AMHR, as that is the only circuit I show.

To some people the words "Shetland miniature" can strike strong emotions. To me, it's just another pony. A good pony is a good pony. Period. I have seen stunning minis do great things in the ring!

As for me, I plan to keep showing and enjoying my AMHR ponies - No matter what other papers they hold!

I hope to see bigger, stronger shows for AMHR. I want to see driving horses with even more movement and grace. I am very excited to see where we are heading! I also feel the the Sweepstakes is a neat idea. Some of the foals in it are AMAZING!!!

I would also like to see AMHR being more open with it members!...

Great post... Thanks!

 

[JMS Miniatures]

Until anyone decides that there needs to be a change or decides where this registry is going its going to be a height registry, it has always been a height registry, anyone under 38" can be a miniature horse. Now they made it to where you have to be AMHA, ASPC, or Fabella registered to be hardshipped in, but if you have a grade pony and are under 38" then you have a grade miniature horse. Until we want to focous on becoming a breed, we will always be a height registry. I may get flammed for this but honestly we are in the same league as the color registries. We just have alot more horses registered and shown.

I have seen some organizations where they have added a performance divison in halter for the big ones, can't remeber which ones now, but thats another halter division. Maybe instead of adding a whole new divison perhaps we should take more emphisis on versatility, make it extra special, not just another class.

 

[midnight star stables]

Until anyone decides that there needs to be a change or decides where this registry is going its going to be a height registry, it has always been a height registry, anyone under 38" can be a miniature horse. Now they made it to where you have to be AMHA, ASPC, or Fabella registered to be hardshipped in, but if you have a grade pony and are under 38" then you have a grade miniature horse. Until we want to focous on becoming a breed, we will always be a height registry. I may get flammed for this but honestly we are in the same league as the color registries. We just have alot more horses registered and shown.

I have seen some organizations where they have added a performance divison in halter for the big ones, can't remeber which ones now, but thats another halter division. Maybe instead of adding a whole new divison perhaps we should take more emphisis on versatility, make it extra special, not just another class.

I agree with both statements!

I'd love to see AMHR a "breed" and more emphasis on versatility.

I showed in Versatility this year, and loved it!

 

[Crabtree Farm]

And yet, just here lately on LB there was someone saying they have a Shetland mare by a registered Hackney stallion...who is ALSO, a registered Shetland pony.

Now I will repeat MY-self...I don't know why it is so difficult for some of you to understand. Some of us just want to keep our miniature horses as they are...with no outcrossing. What would it hurt to make that happen...seriously? For those who WANT to outcross, by all means, "fill your boots", but DON'T take what WE prefer away from us in doing it. Why on earth is it so difficult to consider making divisions...you say you think we NEED outcrossing, fine...I say we don't, but with the different divisions...just like the breed you want to outcross with, ALREADY HAS...we can all be happy.

I just got off the phone with Edd Purdue and he told me how the hackney ponies became part of the shetland association. In the mid to late 1960's there was a registry known as "The Americana" which was a cross between a shetland and a hackney pony. This was a very booming registry with shows holding Americana divisions.

Roughly 8 to 10 years later the registry ended. I did not get the reason why, he simply said it ended, but these registered ponies were absorbed into the ASPC registry. So there was no funny business in slipping in the hackney/Americana horses into the registry, they were opening welcomed. So the influx of pure hackney ponies were about 40 years ago. And my mare is 17 years old. I do plan on breeding her which would create a 1/4 hackney baby.

So before anyone says that the hackney blood was slipped into the association, they were welcomed.

 

[txminipinto]

Tina is correct. I had forgotten about the Americana. In fact, I may have some horses with Americanas in their pedigree as I remember seeing them in research.

 

[Crabtree Farm]

I just got off the phone with Edd Purdue and he told me how the hackney ponies became part of the shetland association. In the mid to late 1960's there was a registry known as "The Americana" which was a cross between a shetland and a hackney pony. This was a very booming registry with shows holding Americana divisions.

Roughly 8 to 10 years later the registry ended. I did not get the reason why, he simply said it ended, but these registered ponies were absorbed into the ASPC registry. So there was no funny business in slipping in the hackney/Americana horses into the registry, they were openly welcomed. So the influx of pure hackney ponies were about 40 years ago. And my mare is 17 years old. I do plan on breeding her which would create a 1/4 hackney baby.

So before anyone says that the hackney blood was slipped into the association, they were welcomed.

 

[Crabtree Farm]

Tina is correct. I had forgotten about the Americana. In fact, I may have some horses with Americanas in their pedigree as I remember seeing them in research.

So I will also be looking at a Modern Futurity/Sweepstakes baby for 2012. Don't worry I won't slip it in the Classic division,

 

[txminipinto]

So I will also be looking at a Modern Futurity/Sweepstakes baby for 2012. Don't worry I won't slip it in the Classic division,

Well, Tina, that would be hard to do! Sweepstakes babies have to be sired by sweepstakes nominated stallions in each division!

But we do have some stallions that do produce both ways nominated in the Classic sweepstakes so it's possible.

 

[kaykay]

I have watched these threads for years and honestly they are getting worse and more frequent. Heck I have a blog post on here from at least a year ago addressing this.

When are we all going to learn to come together and stop dividing ourselves? Mini people, pony people, minipony, amha people ughh it goes on and on.

We all love small equine. They all have a place. I love to show and be competitive but is that really all its about? What happened to the joy of being owned by these small guys?

I really hope someday this division ends and we all come together for the good of ASPC/AMHR.

Kay

 

[Lewella]

I just got off the phone with Edd Purdue and he told me how the hackney ponies became part of the shetland association. In the mid to late 1960's there was a registry known as "The Americana" which was a cross between a shetland and a hackney pony. This was a very booming registry with shows holding Americana divisions.

Roughly 8 to 10 years later the registry ended. I did not get the reason why, he simply said it ended, but these registered ponies were absorbed into the ASPC registry. So there was no funny business in slipping in the hackney/Americana horses into the registry, they were opening welcomed. So the influx of pure hackney ponies were about 40 years ago. And my mare is 17 years old. I do plan on breeding her which would create a 1/4 hackney baby.

So before anyone says that the hackney blood was slipped into the association, they were welcomed.

The Americana's were allowed to breed with registered Shetlands for the "B" pedigree designation starting in the mid 70's and going thru the mid 90's. The ASPC owned Harness Show Pony registry (popular in the 50's and 60's until the pony market crashed - another Hackney/Shetland registry very similar to today's ASPR) was also an accepted "B" outcross as were Hackney and Welsh ponies.

Frankly, at that time the ASPC gene pool needed the influx of new genetics. The pony market crash in the 1960's resulted in the bulk of ASPC bloodlines disappearing from the registry. The registry was recertified around 1970 in order to determine how many ponies were still out there - papers had to be sent back in and a fee paid in order for the pony to remain an ASPC registered Shetland. Many farms did not choose to recertify because their ponies were not worth anything.

Fast forward a couple of years and some of the owners of herds that had not been recertified had the brilliant idea to start a new registry for these no longer registered Shetland ponies, call them Miniature Horses, and measure them in a manner that made them seem shorter. They approached ASPC with the idea and the AMHR was born....

 

[ohmt]

Reading back through some of the posts where people say they want AMHR (and AMHA) to become breed registries, I really hope that doesn't happen. I think it's a shame that AMHR closed their books to hardshipping, especially since it is still supposed to be a height registry. If it becomes a breed registry than all horses with AMHR registered parents will have to be eligible to be registered, no matter what size. I think there will be a lot more people breeding for the leggier B sized minis which would inevitably give us more horses going over 38" that will be registered. There will be little to separate the miniatures from shetlands and other pony breeds.

Anyway, I love that there is so much diversity in the miniatures. It shouldn't matter what type of horses are coming into the registries as long as they're not bringing defects and are bringing in some qualities that some breeders like and of course that they are under 38". Yes, SOME breeders. Not everyone has to like the same type-the miniatures are diverse! If you don't like hackney, then don't buy or breed miniatures that have hackney influence. It's simple.

I can't wait to see the miniatures in 10 years!

 

[horsefeather]

I must agree with Sue_C...Several years ago there were AMHR shows. Then the shetland folks wanted to add classes for their horses...we added classes. (added classes to show bill) Then we had to divide them up. Foundation, Classic. (added more classes to show bill) Next came the Modern and Modern Pleasure horses. We had to add even MORE classes. Then the National Ponies wanted in. (more classes added to show bill) An AMHR show used to last 1 day. Now our shows, AMHR/ASPC/etc. are lasting 2 or

2 1/2 days, sometimes 3 days. Yep, we added ALL those 'pony' classes for pony people, (even at most shows there are only 1 to 3 ponies in them) but when the suggestion for adding a foundation class for miniatures is proposed.....

that will cause shows to go longer. Hey, here's an idea. Let's have AMHR shows and the ponies can have their own shows

Oops, that won't work, has been tried and not enough ponies made it profitable. The minis (even with their shetland blood) are carrying the ponies. At many shows lots of the miniature classes have been cut out so the pony classes can be added, then you are lucky if 1 pony shows up. I wish I was wise and had the answer, but alas, I'm not. I do know I joined AMHR because I LOVED the B miniature.....just the way it was. And, before anyone passes out at the thought, please believe me when I said earlier I like the foundation and some of the classic shetlands...in fact, have some, so this is NOT meant to be about mini's vs. shetlands!

 

[muffntuf]

I just got off the phone with Edd Purdue and he told me how the hackney ponies became part of the shetland association. In the mid to late 1960's there was a registry known as "The Americana" which was a cross between a shetland and a hackney pony. This was a very booming registry with shows holding Americana divisions.

Roughly 8 to 10 years later the registry ended. I did not get the reason why, he simply said it ended, but these registered ponies were absorbed into the ASPC registry. So there was no funny business in slipping in the hackney/Americana horses into the registry, they were opening welcomed. So the influx of pure hackney ponies were about 40 years ago. And my mare is 17 years old. I do plan on breeding her which would create a 1/4 hackney baby.

So before anyone says that the hackney blood was slipped into the association, they were welcomed.

Tina you are correct about the Americanna but I advise you to do some more homework.

 

[Crabtree Farm]

Well, Tina, that would be hard to do! Sweepstakes babies have to be sired by sweepstakes nominated stallions in each division!

But we do have some stallions that do produce both ways nominated in the Classic sweepstakes so it's possible.

I plan on bidding on both a classic and a modern to have two babies (of course one in each division).

 

[Crabtree Farm]

Tina you are correct about the Americanna but I advise you to do some more homework.

I know their paperwork is no longer accepted to become a shetland, but the offspring who has current shetland papers are still good.

 

[Minimor]

Lewella--thank you for that post! I'd heard something about a recertification, and that some ponies didn't get put back in at that time, but I didn't know exactly what that meant. Thank you for the explanation!

For those that want a Foundation Mini division (Sue C. for one)-- It’s not that some of us don’t understand where you’re coming from when you say that Minis need to have different divisions—we’re simply saying that we don’t agree, and explaining why not. I’m also pointing out the reason why I think that if the Minis were divided up into various “type” divisions, people still wouldn’t be happy. I get the impression from what some are saying that the biggest reason they want a Foundation type added is to allow them to be competitive with the horses they have. They want to show, and they want to win, and they want to win with the type of horses they have now, they don't want to change to horses that are more the type that is so popular just now....namely "pony type", regardless of whether those horses are truly pony, or just Minis that have the qualities of the ponies. Can't win in the existing classes? Then add a division, that will fix everything. What happens when those people are getting beat in the Foundation Mini division by horses they feel are off type?? Then what division do you come up with next??? I could suggest one, but the name I have for it wouldn't go over well. <VBG>

 

[Sue_C.]

I could care less about breed shows, or winning in that form...did my time showing halter horses, and standing on the end of a lead line to me, is only fun until the horse is old enough to ride or drive. I show open, compete with regular ponies etc...and am interested in combined driving, so that has absolutely nothing to do with this at all.

I just think it only fair to retain some of the miniature horses that attracted me to the breed in the first place. Surely I am not the only one who wants a miniature horse, not JUST a smaller shetland/hackney? WHY, just because the "trend setters" want to change their miniatures, should we ALL have to? Why they don't just show their little shetlands, as what they are...I cannot imagine...but show them as minis if you must...just don't expect us to all be happy about it.

 

[fastrack]

10 years from now....

>A new show class breed for Shetlands. This one called Miniature Shetlands, carrying all the classes the over 38" Shetlands enter.

>A new size class added. Overs 34-38", Unders30"-34" AND Under 30" called "?". This size class would have their own class for Grands awarded.

>Judges can only be licensed to judge only one registry of horse. Either ASPC, or AMHR, or AMHA. And they must take educational classes, tested annually and be apprenticed for that particular registry's standards before judging. It may not take the politics out of the show ring, but it should take the confusion out of judging. I think its very hard for a judge that judges the multiple ASPC classes to stop looking for huge animated movement in a miniature class. "Hackney-type action would be DQ".

>AMHR Board will consist of equal representation from AMHR only owners, Shetland only owners, and AMHR/Shetland owners.

 

[muffntuf]

>AMHR Board will consist of equal representation from AMHR only owners, Shetland only owners, and AMHR/Shetland owners.

There are two other divisions in our Registry - if we want to call for equal representation, the please make sure ASPR and NSPR has equal representation as well.