Where is AMHR going 10 years from now?

[JMS Miniatures]

You know there has been lots of discussion going concerning AMHR. The Journal, possibly changing our way of measuring our horses which is a very big deal, now facing mondern pony miniatures into the mix. Its all scary stuff to someone who wants to continue to breed AMHR miniature horses. I have received the Journal and after reading Mr. Larry Parnell's letter about how misleading information about our registry is getting spread around on chat rooms and how we our just hurting ourselves. You know what he is probably right. We don't know whats going on with our registry. I'm sure I'm also one of those people who don't know the right information and also talk about it on here. I'm sure we all don't mean to hurt the registry, I sure don't. I think we are all concerned at whats going on behind closed doors. Information isn't getting out to us members. When we don't hear whats going on, what our BOD is chosing its scary. Kind of like what our country is going thru right now. I just wish AMHR would be more open doored. Just something I wanted to say.

Now with that being said, I started out with these miniatures almost 10 years ago. Its amazing how much of a change the breed has gone thru. Personally probably for the better. The biggest change I have seen is the AMHR/ASPC ponies commanding in the show ring. So many people have changed to raise AMHR/ASPC ponies to their breeding program. All I can ask myself is whats going to happen to the AMHR only horse? Are people still buying them, and for big money? What is AMHR's goals when it comes to this breed? Are they going to want a certain type and will that be the AMHR/ASPC pony? I'm personally interested to know what AMHR sees itself in 10 years. Halter is of course a big deal, it will always be, but I think we will see more performance, possibly adding new classes. Proving just how athletic these miniatures can be. Heck just in a couple of years the WCPD and I think even the Roadster In-hand classes are going to be BIG. I think the WCPD is going to be very popular. Now Draft is a HOF class. I know I have heard talks of judges thinking it may possibly split from certain horses can do halter and certain can drive. Like the AQHA, some of those halter horses just cannot perform. I think and hope that geldings will gain in popularity. The more popular the performance classes are getting maybe more people will want a well trained gelding. I don't know what I'll see in the next decade, I just hope the miniature horses and AMHR will just get stronger with age.

What do you see? Now only nice words now. I just want this to be a positive post. No registry bashing.

 

[~Lisa~]

Well in a couple short sentances.. if we do not change things pretty quick here.. I see AMHR horses disappearing and we will soon be a larger (in numbers) version of ASPC In ten years I think we will have one National show as there will be little difference between the ASPC and AMHR except perhaps the 32 and under horse.

I think this will have a direct effect on the dollars brought into AMHR which in turn of course effects the dollars ASPC has to spend as well.

Honestly not a popular idea but I wish we would close hardship to everyone including ASPC and AMHA or open it up to everyone. If it is about getting new blood and we are all originally ASPC ponies wouldnt logic state we would need to allow more other typs of horses in the gene pool?

 

[minih]

Looking back thru some older Journals, if history repeats itself, I see even more beautiful horses in AMHR coming forward.

 

[Minimor]

I don't see the single registered AMHR horses disappearing completely. I think that those who choose to continue breeding them will be more selective and breed better quality animals--and I think that 10 years from now there will be AMHR-only horses that are indistinguishable from many of the ASPC/AMHR horses.

More and more people will add ASPC ponies into their AMHR breeding herds. Some will pick quality animals, others will buy simply because the animal does have those ASPC papers. We see it now and I don't think that in the next 10 years we will see it stop--people (not saying all of them, but a good many of them!) choosing horses based on what registration papers they have, and paying out big money for an ASPC/AMHR horse even if it is poorer quality than a number of AMHR-only horses that they pass over. As long as a certain number of breeders cannot judge quality rather than buying/breeding papers, we are going to see a number of poor quality ASPC/AMHR minis on the market and in the show rings, and so the good AMHR-only horses are going to continue to be competitive in the ring. The market for those AMHR-only horses will always be there as long as there are buyers who can look through the registration papers and recognize quality.

I think there will be more people who are currently AMHR enthusiasts who will get into the single registered ASPC ponies--they will have their AMHR and AMHR/ASPC horses for the AMHR ring, and they will have some taller ASPC ponies for showing ASPC. I don't imagine there will be great numbers of these people, but I think there will be some. These are primarily AMHR exhibitors who will not be able to bring themselves to take a double registered pony out of the AMHR ring & show him ASPC, so they will have some taller ASPC ponies to show in the pony ring.

I think we will see overall quality of horses improve--more leggy, refined and well proportioned horses being shown in the AMHR halter classes, better quality horses showing in the driving classes....horses will have better necks and be able to set up better in the bridle, and they will be moving more freely--better extension, better knee & hock flexion (and that doesn't necessarily mean HIGHER action!)--overall more fluid movement instead of so much of the choppy moving, fling-the-front-feet-out-in-front Pomeranian type movement that is still so common in the Miniatures.

I hope that 10 years from now rules will have changed to allow for more emphasis to be placed on movement in the AMHR halter classes. I personally don't like the pomeranian action that is so commonly seen in the Mini driving classes--I don't like it in driving horses, and I don't like it in halter classes! So many judges still aren't interested in watching how the horses move, because under current rules movement really doesn't count for anything. I'd like to think that in the next 10 years that will change, and the majority of judges will be looking for halter horses that have lovely fluid movement....no more TIDDLING and no more pomeranians!!

 

[iowa]

I think people who want to show miniatures and not Shetland/miniatures will switch over to AMHA. That is my opinion and the reason I am buying more AMHA horses. If I go to a miniature show, I want to compete with miniature standards not Shetland standards. Just my opinion

 

[Crabtree Farm]

I think people who want to show miniatures and not Shetland/miniatures will switch over to AMHA. That is my opinion and the reason I am buying more AMHA horses. If I go to a miniature show, I want to compete with miniature standards not Shetland standards. Just my opinion

Can you explain what you mean by mini standards vs shetland standards, besides height.

 

[MindyLee]

I've noticed lately the last few yrs, small minis dont win in the ring no more. Taller ones and shetlands do.

 

[horsefeather]

If breeders continue breeding so much shetland (and hackney) blood into the miniatures, I agree the mini will go by the wayside. And if people continue breeding "to improve the breed" meaning more refinement, those who keep a nice miniature stallion will probably have some of those extra refined, more leggy mares seeking them out. I swear, if they get any more 'refined' or more 'leg' they just might blow over in a strong wind. I like a horse, or mini, with some body to it. As it is, Nationals (as someone else said) might as well be combined with Congress. What I hate to see the most is the gentle, sweet nature of the mini dissapearing. Of course, it's all been said before, about how 'gentle' the shetlands are. Sorry, I don't buy it. Sure, there are some sweet shetlands and some laid back ones, but most of the ones I have seen (and I have seen quite a few in the last 4 years) are flighty and unpredictable. The reason we got into minis in the first place was because of their gentle nature. So, where will AMHR be in 10 years? I'm afraid it will be smaller and ASPC will become the main focus, unfortunately. By the way, I also have shetlands and I couldn't honestly sell one to small kids or beginners, like I could a miniature.

And, JMS, I totally agree we need to know more of whats going on. If we knew, there wouldn't be so many half-truths going around!

Again, JMHO

Pam

 

[muffntuf]

Wow! I own both miniatures and shetlands, although I do have Moderns and American Show Ponies that I would sell, but to experienced folks only, I have plenty of Classics and Modern Pleasures I would sell to beginners or even youth. And I have sweet shetlands. Even my Moderns and ASPR's are sweet - but they do get down to business when its time.

I have a couple miniatures that are the older type B's that I would have to say couldn't go to beginners or even youth, they also get down to business when its time and have some fire.

Although the topic of the thread is where are we going in 10 years, I have my concerns, but a lot of folks have a lot of nice shetlands and miniatures that beginners or youth can or could own.

 

[~Lisa~]

I think people who want to show miniatures and not Shetland/miniatures will switch over to AMHA. That is my opinion and the reason I am buying more AMHA horses. If I go to a miniature show, I want to compete with miniature standards not Shetland standards. Just my opinion

I think quite a few have done just that....

This is not about what I like it is more about the bigger picture. We as a registry are forgetting what draws people to the "miniature" horse to begin with. And we are forgetting plain and simple in dollars and cents.. we need all of those people who do not want ponies (be it for a reason we like or agree with or not) in our registry. They are the bread and butter.

I have said for over a year now we are pushing more people to AMHA-

by once again de-valuing the B horse (which was a huge reason many came to AMHR) I think we will suffer financially but of course I hope I am wrong.

 

[JMS Miniatures]

Yes this post wasn't meant for any bashing mini vs. shetland, or A vs. R. This is a positive chat. However I do agree with lot has been said. I'm afraid its also going to get to extreme and those of us who want to continue to raising quality Miniature Horses may have a difficult decision to make. I love AMHR, and I want to stay in it, but if I feel like I am going to get pushed out I will take a different direction.

Also yes I do think that the shetlands are more hotter blooded but it can be toned down with just some proper training. I think they can make the best kids horse, just look at the classes kids can do with them. I think its awesome. I have even seen some miniatures that are just plain nasty and don't want to be around them. Its all about training. So both have there flaws.

 

[Minimor]

Quite obviously a number of people have totally bought into the horse vs. pony hype...that Minis are horses because of what their registry was named and ponies are <shudder> ponies! It always makes me snort when someone tells me that they want a Miniature horse because they don't want any of those nasty ponies. VBG Sorry all, but the name doesn't make them any more of a horse and less of a pony--but judging by how many people get sucked in by that supposed difference it really was a great marketing ploy.

The complaints about the terrible dispositions and temperaments of the ponies gets to be a bit tiresome. Honestly I have some Miniatures...no ASPC registered ponies on their papers though of course there are some further back (Gold Melody Boy, Rowdy--and other "accepted" Miniature type ponies like them, not the dreaded Moderns that people are so down on) that I would never sell as children's horses. They are good natured, well mannered and quiet, but are simply too spirited to be safe for children. They would be inclined to take advantage of a person if they could, and they are smart enough to know if their handler is capable of managing them or not. I actually have more Minis like them than I do Minis that would make kids horses--just because that is the kind of temperament I like. Likewise, I have ponies that wouldn't be suitable for children, and I have ponies that would be excellent for children. There are a great many ponies that make excellent children's ponies.

I've yet to see any Mini that is too leggy and too fine bodied--I don't think I've seen any that were too slight for driving and certainly none that would be in danger of blowing over in a strong wind!! I have, I guess, seen some that were too thin--I presume the owners believe thin=refined and therefore won't feed them up, but at ideal weight those horses would be quite substantial. Some of the young ponies, yearlings especially, are more narrow than the average yearling Mini--and I know many Mini people don't care for that. Thing is, those narrow yearlings very often grow into very nice mature ponies, whereas the more bulky yearlings end up heavy as mature animals.

 

[JWC sr.]

You know after giving this some thought before i posted to the thread, I had the following thoughts:

1. As long as AMHR continues to try to be inclusive as versus exclusive they will continue to grow and prosper. What I mean by that is continuing to try to make a place for everyone to be able to enjoy haltering, driving, jumping or whatever with the horses they love. By the large number of classes offered I think they are really trying to do just that and encouraging folks to attend the National show by having low requirements for qualification to the show.

2. Yes the horses of today are a far cry from the ones we saw even 5 or 6 years ago and in my opinion it is a change for the better. I hear and see folks trying to breed for conformation that can be used in all the different venues as we know them from halter to driving to jumping etc. Functionally sound and capable is the term I heard one judge use when explaining what they look for in a horse. The input of the classic/foundation shetland into the breed has done a lot of things for the breed, but the amhr mini also brings to the table a lot of things that are positive also. Both of these are good things in my mind.

3. Deposition is a great thing to have in your herd, we can't and won't tolerate a standoffish or mean horse in the herd. We have these guys for fun and the enjoyment of our grandkids and ourselves. Mean just does not cut it and we will not tolerate it at all. Yes they are horses and they need to be handled as such and taught what they need to know, but some are just plain ornery as in any breed.

4. After nearly 30 years in this industry, the market and the industry itself has really changed and that is a good thing in my feeble mind, prices have come down, quality has for the most part gone up and the small farms are just as capable of producing great horses as many of the big farms.

5. We all have the choice to either change with what is wanted and desired by the majority of people in the industry or just keep what we like and let it go with that. Neither approach is wrong in my mind, but one should not complain when we stand still and get passed by by the more progressive peers we may have to compete against. Quality always sells and wins, but what was quality 20 years ago can't stand the heat that the modern A or B size AMHR horses can bring into the show ring on a consistent basis in either performance or halter classes.

Bottom line I personally am excited to be a small part of this registry and enjoy every day the folks I have met in it. Hopefully God willing we will continue to produce quality horses and get to show them against all of our friends and peers for a few more years. The registry in 10 years will be fine as long as we all strive to learn, get along and enjoy this wonderful world of small equine.

 

[Crabtree Farm]

You know after giving this some thought before i posted to the thread, I had the following thoughts:

1. As long as AMHR continues to try to be inclusive as versus exclusive they will continue to grow and prosper. What I mean by that is continuing to try to make a place for everyone to be able to enjoy haltering, driving, jumping or whatever with the horses they love. By the large number of classes offered I think they are really trying to do just that and encouraging folks to attend the National show by having low requirements for qualification to the show.

2. Yes the horses of today are a far cry from the ones we saw even 5 or 6 years ago and in my opinion it is a change for the better. I hear and see folks trying to breed for conformation that can be used in all the different venues as we know them from halter to driving to jumping etc. Functionally sound and capable is the term I heard one judge use when explaining what they look for in a horse. The input of the classic/foundation shetland into the breed has done a lot of things for the breed, but the amhr mini also brings to the table a lot of things that are positive also. Both of these are good things in my mind.

3. Deposition is a great thing to have in your herd, we can't and won't tolerate a standoffish or mean horse in the herd. We have these guys for fun and the enjoyment of our grandkids and ourselves. Mean just does not cut it and we will not tolerate it at all. Yes they are horses and they need to be handled as such and taught what they need to know, but some are just plain ornery as in any breed.

4. After nearly 30 years in this industry, the market and the industry itself has really changed and that is a good thing in my feeble mind, prices have come down, quality has for the most part gone up and the small farms are just as capable of producing great horses as many of the big farms.

5. We all have the choice to either change with what is wanted and desired by the majority of people in the industry or just keep what we like and let it go with that. Neither approach is wrong in my mind, but one should not complain when we stand still and get passed by by the more progressive peers we may have to compete against. Quality always sells and wins, but what was quality 20 years ago can't stand the heat that the modern A or B size AMHR horses can bring into the show ring on a consistent basis in either performance or halter classes.

Bottom line I personally am excited to be a small part of this registry and enjoy every day the folks I have met in it. Hopefully God willing we will continue to produce quality horses and get to show them against all of our friends and peers for a few more years. The registry in 10 years will be fine as long as we all strive to learn, get along and enjoy this wonderful world of small equine.

Well said.

And the term is "form to function" and that does have a lot to do with conformation. Too many times I hear or read where someone says their horse is "very correct", or "great conformation", but I am not sure if it is barn blindness or just lack of knowing how a horse should be put together. It does not matter the size, but you must have a horse with truly correct conformation. And better breeding to correct faults is becoming more evident.

Remember the Chevrolet ad that used the tagline "it's not your father's Chevrolet", well today's minis does not look like yesteryears minis that were taken straight out of the coal mines.

People will continue to breed and show what they like. People will continue to debate if this is a height registry or breed registry. People will continue to win and lose. And unfortunately there is going to be instances of "sour grapes", as I can tell you on a first hand experience.

The association will be here in 10 years, but it may be the same or it may not. It is each person's choice to continue with the association or not.

 

[kdhminis]

I for one got into the mini's because I am getting older and wanted to keep enjoying horses - so if I'm going to continue in this it will be with the smaller mini's my preference. I like the "arabian look" but I also like the "stocky" look to. If it ends up that everything is going taller and taller - I will just keep what I have and enjoy them, quit showing, and I still have 5 AQHA horses if I want tall

I hope that somehow we can keep both the smaller under horse divisions; and the taller over horse divisions - I think it is important to AMHR. AMHA is fine with me also but they right now have no shows - or not many - in the Kansas/Missouri area - that's why I prefer AMHR right now. I will keep watching and keep learning along with everyone else.

 

[~Lisa~]

I do have to say one thing was not going to but since it has been mentioned a couple times in this thread..

Ponies at least my 3 have wonderful dispositions. We have a Mod Pleasure and a classic and a undetermined division as of this moment. They are kind and sweet and the first ones to you to be loved on.

Even the yearling who has not been handled much at all. He can be goofy but guess what so can my yearling minis (when I had them) I have not seen much difference personality wise.Not in ease or lack of being able to train, work ethic or friendliness.

I love my ponies and if I were still going to breed that might be the direction I would go in but that does not change my position that I feel we are never going to change the minds of those who do not believe they can not have a R only horse and/or those who do not want to add pony blood. Those who will not every believe or feel that Shetland is the way to go for whatever reason. My concern is where do they go . We can say they will leave oh well - that is true however there is ALOT OF "THEM" and when they go so do their dollars.

 

[hunterridgefarm]

Yes this post wasn't meant for any bashing mini vs. shetland, or A vs. R. This is a positive chat. However I do agree with lot has been said. I'm afraid its also going to get to extreme and those of us who want to continue to raising quality Miniature Horses may have a difficult decision to make. I love AMHR, and I want to stay in it, but if I feel like I am going to get pushed out I will take a different direction.

Also yes I do think that the shetlands are more hotter blooded but it can be toned down with just some proper training. I think they can make the best kids horse, just look at the classes kids can do with them. I think its awesome. I have even seen some miniatures that are just plain nasty and don't want to be around them. Its all about training. So both have there flaws.

Some can not keep things positive as I see it.

 

[MountainMeadows]

Personally, I see the AMHR horses exploding - and not just the ASPC/AMHR. Look at all the beautiful ASPC/AMHR ponies that are being bred to some gorgeous AMHA stallions and what just look at what they are producing - those animals are for the most part "only AMHR" but they are DROP DEAD GORGEOUS ! ! I think the blending of the 2/3 associations is what is going to really put the miniature horse on the map as far as full size breeders truly appreciating our horses as a viable breed. The form to function will vastly improve -- and NOT at the risk of overdoing it on the smaller horses -- (this is a personal pet-peeve of mine - asking way too much of the under 34" horse these days - what are we all going to be living with in 10 years, all for the sake of a ribbon)

It has been rare in the past to see a horse that "has it all" - long slender leg, trim barrel, upright & hooky neck with a long clean throatlatch, short back, nice full hip with high tailset, straight legs, beautiful head -- AND movement that takes your breath away --- I strongly believe that the in the future we will see more and more of this type of animal - a truly scaled down miniature horse --- IMO humble it will take the blending of the breeds to create this animal - not going to happen with only ASPC/AMHR, nor only AMHR nor only AMHA - let's take the best of all breeding programs and really strive to create a miniature horse that truly is just that - a MINIATURE HORSE.

The cool thing about AMHR is that it leaves the door open for those striving for the Under 34" as well as those breeding for 34 - 38" -- this concentrating breeding of beautiful animals, who have come from taller stock will eventually reach the Under 34" horse in larger and larger numbers - for me, that is when I will believe that I have finally met my goal.

 

[Crabtree Farm]

If shetlands have evolved this far since 1888, from those traditional shaggy Thewellian type to what is now called "The American Shetland Pony", can you imagine miniature horses in 100 years?

Great strides have taken place in a much shorter time frame. But are people scared that they will evolved into nothing more than a greyhound with a mane and tail? I seriously doubt it. But maybe the association can divide the miniature horse into different divisions such as a foundation mini, a classic mini and a "modern day" mini. And then perhaps all will be happy.

It is the "American Miniature Horse" isn't it? Well Americans are made up of many different ethnic groups, much like our little equines. Something to think about.

 

[~Lisa~]

If shetlands have evolved this far since 1888, from those traditional shaggy Thewellian type to what is now called "The American Shetland Pony", can you imagine miniature horses in 100 years?

Yes they have by allowing other bloodlines into the Shetlands but they have put and end to that

Not aruging just pointing out that at a point and time even the ASPC decided enough was enough with the outcross breeding