Where is all of this going?

[littlesteppers]

Talked to a friend yesterday and she said double registered mares in foal are offered in her part of the country (Iowa) for 250.00 dollars.

What is going on? Feed prices are UP, farrier is UP, Hay is waaaay UP..shipping, shots got more expensive..the only thing that is declining are horse prices..has the "overbreeding" caught up with the breed?

I refuse to lower prices..rather keep them..bred half of what we usually breed for next year..in case we keep all our 2007 crop.

Is it just me..or does anybody else feel the same way..and NO I don't know what quality this specific mare was..But good gully..Pets should even go higher.

Jumping of my soapbox now! :lol: :saludando:

 

[Kawgirl]

Yes, overbreeding has definitely caught up with the breed! I've been trying to sell a show quality two year old colt for several months and have only gotten a couple of replies. And I'm only trying to get $500 out of him! I've seen several quality horses on the saleboard for next to nothing and the sellers will negotiate. :new_shocked: Glad I ony have one to sell!

 

[Songcatcher]

I think the price only tells part of the story. Yes, I agree prices are low. I have seen some sell way too cheap. I agree there is over production, but mainly among those who will breed ANYTHING. I have seen SOME that I would not take home if they were given to me.

In my opinion, there needs to be a lot of culling to improve the breed. It seems the general nature of MOST Miniature owners is to rescue everything and put it into a good home. Sooner or later, most of those "good homes" decide, "Wouldn't it be nice to have a foal?" Then, the problem gets worse. I know this is going to be really unpopular with some, but as long as we try to save EVERYTHING, the breed will suffer as a result. We (as a group or industry if you will) often let our emotions rule over practicality.

 

[littlesteppers]

Interesting Songcatcher..never thought about that aspect..thanks :saludando:

I also think that people keep breeding till they run out of room IF they can not sale

the foal crop..than just throw them on the market dirt cheap. YUP..seen it happen.

 

[lyn_j]

I also agree with Song Catcher. I have a mare that is very nice, a national top ten winner and I have her priced at only 3500. I will not go lower than that because that is only a few hundred more than what I paid for her three years ago. I have a show quality filly for sale now for 2000. I may go a bit lower but not much. A friend of mine offered a bred mare DELIVERED 250 miles for 1800 and the prospective owner said, I wasnt wanting top dollar show horses....what do you have cheaper? Are you kidding!!!!!! Gas to deliver this horse round trip would have been 300 dollars or so so this person felt that a bred mare delivered for 1800 was "Top Dollar" PEople want a show quality, bred mare double registered, with color and around 32 inches for 5-600 dollars and there are people out there that are giving them what they want!

WE as breeders of show quality stock have to stick to our prices AND control our urge to breed everyone. Until we do this problem will continue.

Lyn

 

[Lisa-Ruff N Tuff Minis]

I agree and think the issue lies with top quality horses and non top quality.

Think about how many foals it takes to get that top one.. how many good- mediocre or less then that are born in the quest for the one amazing foal.

Reality is we are all to blame in some form or another IMO

I have yet to see a breeder who ONLY PRODUCES TOP QUALITY AMAZING FOALS no matter who they are or how long they have been doing it. I have seem many that THINK they do but that is not reality

I had no foals in 2006, one in 2007 and none in 2008 and am fine with that. I have said it many times but the more i know and learn the less I have the urge to breed. I love to see the babies but I also am trying to be part of what I see as the solution. That may not work for everyone or be everyones choice but it is working for me for now

 

[littlesteppers]

I agree and think the issue lies with top quality horses and non top quality.

I agree to a point..We ALL had people showing up looking for a 300-400 dollar horse. These people

just wanting a pet. Registered or not don't matter. I believe EDUCATING these people rather than just

letting a horse go dirt cheap would help. Another thing DON"T stand your stud to unreg mares. I been approached a bunch of times..NO thank you.

Than there are the farms that made their share on profit on foals and the "leftovers" being send to auctions or sold dirt cheap. Where does this leave the smaller breeders? People coming back telling you I found this double reg horse for half YOUR price. Prob half the quality too..they just don't see it

 

[user 488]

In my opinion, there needs to be a lot of culling to improve the breed. It seems the general nature of MOST Miniature owners is to rescue everything and put it into a good home. Sooner or later, most of those "good homes" decide, "Wouldn't it be nice to have a foal?" Then, the problem gets worse. I know this is going to be really unpopular with some, but as long as we try to save EVERYTHING, the breed will suffer as a result. We (as a group or industry if you will) often let our emotions rule over practicality.

Since I don't have Miniatures I can look at this issue from a very unbiased standpoint. I agree with the above statement and have said many times before that people just need to quit breeding every mare that has a pulse. Way, way, way to many sub standard mares being bred to sub standard stallions. And, of course, people don't want to admit it, don't see it, or flat out don't care.

I have yet to see a breeder who ONLY PRODUCES TOP QUALITY AMAZING FOALS no matter who they are or how long they have been doing it. I have seem many that THINK they do but that is not reality

How true Lisa! Even the best farms have culls.............even National Champions bred to National Champions can be culls. Unfortunately you cannot stop people from breeding and nobody likes to admit they own less than desirable horses as we all know because I know we have had this discussion more than a dozen times.

Edited to say......Christine this is not directed at you.....just the problem in general.

 

[littlesteppers]

Yeah Right Carol..Now you hurt my wittle fewlings.. :new_all_coholic: :new_all_coholic:

: :bgrin

 

[Sue_C.]

I have seen SOME that I would not take home if they were given to me.

I understand that for sure..as I have even turned down a couple of free ones, myself. I DO wish that I'd taken the little stallion tho', as after I turned him down saying that I wouldn't use him for breeding because I saw dwarf traits, and suggested they geld him...they gave him to some one else...who is breeding him. I have wished a thousand times that I had bought him, had him gelded, and given him to someone as a pet. (He was only 27", so in my mind...not a likely driving prospect.)

We are being "hurt" here, not so much by the local breeders, but by an influx of cheaply priced horses coming in "from away". I just put my two best mares up for sale, stopped breeding the two mares I had thought to breed for next year, before their cycles were complete, so am hoping for no '08 foals either. This year, we just had the one.

I refuse to sell my horses cheap, and would rather just keep them here and feed them till they die. Stubborn?? Perhaps, but if people want to spend their money on quantity, rather than quality, they won't be buying anything here, as I don't want my horses going to someone who doesn't appreciate them.

 

[littlesteppers]

I refuse to sell my horses cheap, and would rather just keep them here and feed them till they die. Stubborn?? Perhaps, but if people want to spend their money on quantity, rather than quality, they won't be buying anything here, as I don't want my horses going to someone who doesn't appreciate them.

RIGHT ON..I am right with you..rather keep them ALL!

Gotto tell my story that brought this subject on.

Had a lady looking for a mini for her future petting zoo..ALL mine where "Overpriced"

Fine..look around and hope you find what you looking for. The End..I thought

She comes back 4 weeks later to buy some halters for her horses she found.. One was One state away..the other 2 states. Now she wanted to borrow my trailer to get them home..HUH? ahhh..NO! Good she is gone..8 weeks later she comes back and says she pays too much board for these horses and If I like to buy them..

mind you she wanted double for what I offered her MY horses for the first place.

 

[Jill]

It is very sad to see a horse, any horse, going so cheaply. I have to wonder what kind of future is there for a horse who sells for $250? Not as much room for a happy ending than the other way around.

However, I have to think the market is still there for quality. I know I'm willing to pay for quality, but like has already been said, there are a lot of horses I wouldn't take for free.......... at this point, I don't want any horse that is not exactly what I think I'm looking for, no matter how good a "deal".

 

[Marty]

I just paid $102. this morning for my feed and shavings for the week. And you wonder why so many liquidate?

Clearly, I am running a non profit organization.

The fact is, there are not enough buyers in the world for miniature horses or any horses no matter what you have.

Just like there are not enough homes for the homeless animals. They are surplus.

It's not like you are selling something that is a need such as brakes for your truck, or food for your table.


This is a "luxury" item that comes with tons of bills and responsibilities and non stop commitment. Not a lot of people want what we are peddling.

 


Maybe 1 in every fifty thousand or more people will want to buy a miniature horse.

 


I don't care what you have; how you going to get that 1 person to pick your horse?

 


And for the ones that maneuver, buy, sell, to improve their herd quality and remove their cull horses from their program, well, those culls have to land somewhere, so they will go to a lesser farm and be bred there. It's a cycle of life. It is not going to ever stop.

 


For most of those that get out there and campaign their animals, they are dumping tons of money, time, blood, sweat, and tears that may never pay off for them, break even, and may even get them in the hole that much more. It's a really big gamble. So showing is not an answer. It's just another huge expense.

 


I'm already so disgusted and I just got started!

 


I put the plug in Nick this year and told him "no, sorry boy, you ain't getting any"......I'm in deep enough already

 


Someone pass me a rag, I'm having a panic attack

 

[user 488]

However, I have to think the market is still there for quality.

Yes, there is always a market for QUALITY horses and they do sell. Maybe not each and every one but they do sell. I see many quality horses selling on this Forum all the time. Quality consists of good conformation and presence (that look at me attitude that sets the horse apart from others)........color should always be a bonus but yet too many cannot see through the color thing and I think that is a HUGE problem for the Miniature Horse breed.

 

[Jill]

However, I have to think the market is still there for quality.

Yes, there is always a market for QUALITY horses and they do sell. Maybe not each and every one but they do sell. I see many quality horses selling on this Forum all the time. Quality consists of good conformation........color should always be a bonus but yet too many cannot see through the color thing and I think that is a HUGE problem for the Miniature Horse breed.

I agree. I was joking the other day something along the lines of "well, he's a cute color", because it seems that is "all" a lot of mini people can see. Like, he might have a tree trunk neck and be knock kneed, but he's still a stallion because he's such a neat color

:

 

[littlesteppers]

"Quality will still sell"

Lets back that up..

Even the best farms have culls.............even National Champions bred to National Champions can be culls.

I am trying to figure this out..IF both of these statements are right..and we KNOW they are right..

this leaves a HUGE gap..between a super quality horse..and a PET horse.

:

: and what do we do with the mares that are just good quality??

 

[Jill]

I don't know...

One thing that I hope is that as driving becomes more popular, people will see a "use" for lots of minis beyond just breeding. I hope as more horse people and non-horse people see what you DO with a mini, there will be more homes looking for "good" minis for things other than just breeding.

Edit to add: at this point, I think our breed really has limited appeal, as in only some people would choose to own a mini, but I do think they are getting more and more popular. The flip side of that popularity, though, is what to "most" people do when they first get a mini? It seems like so many people get their first mini one day, and are breeders the next.

 

[Buckskin gal]

It is sad that people are selling minis for $250.00 and what is sadder is that they are probably being sold as breeding quality by someone who does not know what a good quality mini is. It is funny though how some people think they can buy these "cheap" horses and turn around and breed them and want three times the price they paid. There is getting to be a horrible surplus of minis in our area and still more "getting into it" to try and make a buck. I don't understand why people are breeding and not having the buyers...I do believe that there are those who have a waiting list because they are known to have good typey stock, but even they could end up without sales if everyone keeps over breeding for the demand. We can't complain [or shouldn't] if we have more minis then what we have buyers for. We have to be practical and if we think feed and the costs of raising them is more than we can comfortably handle then we better stop breeding and we won't have anything to complain about. Right now, I am in the market for a certain type/color mini but so far I haven't come across it and yes, I am looking for the most for my money! I have sold some minis but my prices have always been resonable and many people can't justify paying several thousand for a mini when other breeds of horses are also way down. The only way I can see prices coming up for the just average mini is for minis to become scarce......and I think most of us know they aren't scarce in many parts of this country.

: Ohhh but they are so cute!

: Mary

Talked to a friend yesterday and she said double registered mares in foal are offered in her part of the country (Iowa) for 250.00 dollars.

What is going on? Feed prices are UP, farrier is UP, Hay is waaaay UP..shipping, shots got more expensive..the only thing that is declining are horse prices..has the "overbreeding" caught up with the breed?

I refuse to lower prices..rather keep them..bred half of what we usually breed for next year..in case we keep all our 2007 crop.

Is it just me..or does anybody else feel the same way..and NO I don't know what quality this specific mare was..But good gully..Pets should even go higher.

Jumping of my soapbox now! :lol: :saludando:

 

[user 488]

Christine, I can only speak from what happens with us and then I will let this go. We stand a number of Multi National and World Champion stallions (not minis) They are bred to many National Champion and World Champion mares along with mares that have never been shown but have the "right" pedigrees.

Every year we have "give aways" They go without papers. If these same horses were bred by private owners or smaller farms, etc. they would be looked upon a lot differently and people would think they had a gold mine just because of the pedigree.

:

I understand what you are saying and believe me it is a big dilemma. Some of these "good" mares are just not being bred correctly. Some of them are just never going to produce anything no matter what they are bred too. Same for stallions. You can have this incredible stallion that just doesn't produce........

You also have to look at the performance horse market. Something which I think is just starting to be tapped into with the Miniature market. Many Arabians are "performance bred" only. This does not mean they are not good quality horses......just not always top candidates for halter. Just because a horse is not a good halter horse does not mean it is not a good horse! Your jaws would drop if you knew what a good performance candidate sells for.



Bottom line is I just think too many miniatures are being bred and if EVERYONE made a conscious effort to slow down a bit it would help the industry tremendously.

 

[KanoasDestiny]

It is very sad to see a horse, any horse, going so cheaply. I have to wonder what kind of future is there for a horse who sells for $250? Not as much room for a happy ending than the other way around.

I love ya Jill...but Gideon would disagree with you greatly on this one!!! I bought him for only $200, and there is nothing I wouldn't do for him! I have spent roughly $12,000 on the horses (give or take a little) in 13 months, and there's only "2" of them! The price you pay for a horse, does not always determine the home they get.

I always find this topic so interesting because everyone assumes that a horse that is bought dirt cheap is going to end up in a bad home. Why is that? Just because someone didn't pay thousands of dollars, they must not have the money to pay for care/farrier/dental/luxery? That just isn't always the case. I truly feel bad for all the other people on here that have bought horses that were less than $1,000, and must also feel that they are looked down apon because they gave horses good homes regardless of the price they paid for them. People who spend thousands, and have tons of horses, can just as easily neglect their horses needs, as those who pay dirt cheap prices.

If breeders are having such a hard time selling their horses for a decent price...then maybe they should stop breeding tons of them every year! People already know that they're competing with an over populated breed. Now days...cheaper is better! (And that goes for everything...clothing, vehicles, buying genetic foods and medicines, we even bargain on homes.) It's only going to get worse, as times get harder.