Where is all of this going?

[Lisa Strass]

I had a mare that I had the ovaries removed on because I knew if I sold her at $500.00 with her bloodlines someone would bred her. And it took me 2 yrs to place her and because she wasn't breedable. You know what the vet bill was double what I was asking for her. I wouldn't have had a problem keeping her here. No hormones to deal with. And my colts are getting gelded if I don't think they can cut the mustard. I'm having another gelding party soon. Why because I don't trust people to geld them after they leave here.

I as a breeder have the final responsibility to make sure I help the breed.

Well said Kitty :aktion033: I can't say that I have actually had a mare's ovaries removed, but I admire you... You are truly walking the walk and not just talking the talk!

An additional comment I have is that it is easy for lots of us to SAY we should only be breeding quality animals. But one of the problems is that people don't really SEE their own herds and breed horses that others definitely would not.

I also believe that the low stud fee prices I see advertised aren't helping horse prices either, and actually encourage those that are trying to make a quick buck with little regard for quality. There are a handful of nice stallions out there that I actually cringe when I see their stud fees because they deserve better, but for the most part a lot of stallions with those low stud fees shouldn't be stallions at all.

 

[Shari]

I honestly do not think the stud fees are too low. I just can't see owning a stallion at this point and I know what mini's sell for in the area.

I can only afford to spend a certain amount for studs fees.

So does that make me a bad person?

When I breed, rare times I do,, it is not to make money but I also can't afford to pay a high stud fee. Theia's sire stud fee was $350.00 and believe me when I say he really is a very excellent quality mini stud. Granted Theia is still here but if I did sell.. adding in care, training and all that I do with my animals befroe they ever leave the farm..am lucky if I break even. Which is fine.

I do not think high prices will weed out the breeders trying to make a buck.. if the breeding fees get to high, those kind will just go out and buy a sub standard stallion. Better for them to go to a local excellent quality stallion than have their own.

If you price them out of the market..it will do no favors to the minis.

I was planning on breeding Theia this year and my Jenny. Though with my Jenny I have not found a Jack in the area with the Quality I am looking for. There is a Jack down in s. OR that fits the bill but they do not take outside Jenny's.

I have not breed in a number of years..but I have plenty of room. Right now it is just a wait and see.

What I have learned over the years.. you can't tell folks what they should do or not do. Maybe guide and nudge in the right direction if they are willing to listen. But if one dictates to how someone should do something..they will not longer listen. Some people like the ultra refinded horses and think only those should be breed,, while others like me.. like the olf type Lippit morgan look, witha nice even balanced conformation and mind.

So who is right and who is wrong... niether in my minds eye.

I like to drive and where I drive, is a challenge..those super narrow very refined mini's can not handle the hills I have. While pretty..they are not what I am intersted in.

Upping the prices so that only rich people can afford mini's is wrong too. I know a few well off people that are not good with their horses care and people with a lower income take excellent care of their horses.

I find that the "how much money people have issue" is not a sure all to wither a horse will get good care or not.

I breed for the best Quality I can and I am extremely picky.. however.. I can't and will not follow fashion. Seen to many breeds go to the extreme and mess up a good bred doing that.

I want a nicely balanced conforrmation, with a good easy to train mind and not any extremes one way or another. A nice user friendly mini.. not too short and stout and not too refined.. nice middle ground..balance as I have said.

I am not super rich and my farm is simple...but my animals get the best possible care and attention and if they need something they get it and the humans wait.

Pastures and stalls are kept so clean you could eat off them,, always the best fed and vitamins they can get and always fresh clean water.

Anyway.. there you have my view on things.

 

[Buckskin gal]

I think you have a wonderful view!

: I too believe we should always be breeding the soundest, most correct, good dispostioned minis we can.....and for a purpose that is useful. And sooo true, we can try and educate but in the end people are going to do what they set their mind to do. We do need to breed what we like and we always must keep in mind what it is we want to achieve in doing a breeding. Mary

I honestly do not think the stud fees are too low. I just can't see owning a stallion at this point and I know what mini's sell for in the area.

I can only afford to spend a certain amount for studs fees.

So does that make me a bad person?

When I breed, rare times I do,, it is not to make money but I also can't afford to pay a high stud fee. Theia's sire stud fee was $350.00 and believe me when I say he really is a very excellent quality mini stud. Granted Theia is still here but if I did sell.. adding in care, training and all that I do with my animals befroe they ever leave the farm..am lucky if I break even. Which is fine.

I do not think high prices will weed out the breeders trying to make a buck.. if the breeding fees get to high, those kind will just go out and buy a sub standard stallion. Better for them to go to a local excellent quality stallion than have their own.

If you price them out of the market..it will do no favors to the minis.

I was planning on breeding Theia this year and my Jenny. Though with my Jenny I have not found a Jack in the area with the Quality I am looking for. There is a Jack down in s. OR that fits the bill but they do not take outside Jenny's.

I have not breed in a number of years..but I have plenty of room. Right now it is just a wait and see.

What I have learned over the years.. you can't tell folks what they should do or not do. Maybe guide and nudge in the right direction if they are willing to listen. But if one dictates to how someone should do something..they will not longer listen. Some people like the ultra refinded horses and think only those should be breed,, while others like me.. like the olf type Libbit morgan look, witha nice even balanced conformation and mind.

So who is right and who is wrong... niether in my minds eye.

I like to drive and where I drive, is a challenge..those super narrow very refined mini's can not handle the hills I have. While pretty..they are not what I am intersted in.

Upping the prices so that only rich people can afford mini's is wrong too. I know a few well off people that are not good with their horses care and people with a lower income take excellent care of their horses.

I find that the "how much money people have issue" is not a sure all to wither a horse will get good care or not.

I breed for the best Quality I can and I am extremely picky.. however.. I can't and will not follow fashion. Seen to many breeds go to the extreme and mess up a good bred doing that.

I want a nicely balanced conforrmation, with a good easy to train mind and not any extremes one way or another. A nice user friendly mini.. not too short and stout and not too refined.. nice middle ground..balance as I have said.

I am not super rich and my farm is simple...but my animals get the best possible care and attention and if they need something they get it and the humans wait.

Pastures and stalls are kept so clean you could eat off them,, always the best fed and vitamins they can get and always fresh clean water.

Anyway.. there you have my view on things.

 

[Anne]

Geez,

I have been looking for an amha/amhr mare,

there are a few out there that I would like, but I am NOT finding "cheap" double registered mares.

Now there are a few that I am not interested in for a bit less, but the idea here that someone in Iowa sold amha/amhr mares for a few hundred dollars baffles me.

Keep in mind that I understand the "pet" market, it's terrible here and does undermine prices in general.

But I have not seen really low prices (under 2000) on QUALITY registered mares out there, and they would definitely need to be shipped.

I'm in Wisconsin.

If someone knows where they are please let me know, I am looking for a special one or two this year.

I guess I could run to an auction (I'd probably pay less) but the truth is I hate to buy that way. I want to be able to ask questions and know something about where the horses I buy came from and their backgrounds, how and if they were handled.

 

[Kitty]

It is not that I am better or less than anyone else but I truly believe that some horses should not be bred and yes you can offer them without papers but that is NOT going to stop people from breeding them. I would not hesitate to again spay another mare. Probably wouldn't make my vet happy but he totally agreed with me on the last one.

So I try to educate as I can and I have talked to many many many breeders about GELDING the colts before you sell them. It is easy to become barn blind and most of us need a BIG EYE OPENER once in a while. Most people know if their colts are not stallion potential and if you are not sure EMAIL someone you trust to ask their opinion. I DO!! This is a good way to limit the market of inferior colts and reduce the $100.00-$400.00 colt market and potentially adding more inferior horses down the road. And don't get me started on auctions. I have heard nothing but unhappy seller stories. And some very unhappy buyer stories. Also try to deal with a respectable breeder if possible. The slightly higher cost is worth the security.

As I mentioned it is the breeders responsibility to improve the breed, not to try to make a cheap dollar. If you are only in this to make a dollar, please pick another bred or better yet a different species- like rabbits.

And I have to disagree about stud fees. The more expensive stud fees are usually stallions of the highest quality and have PROVED and WALKED THE WALK AND WON. I have no qualms about paying a $1000.00 to $3000.00 for a stud fee because I know that one: the breeder is usually very picky about what mares they will accept and two: the mares they do accept are going to be the higher quality and will produce nicer quality foals. And these are the foals the trainers will accept and will win.

 

[AceyHorse]

I just wanted to ask a question as I am finding this discussion absolutely facinating and very educational. I am very new to minis and certainly not a breeder ( I have 2 geldings). But in reading this I am wondering

if gelding contracts were used in sales very often? Also is there in place a similar contract for mares? I understand they can't be gelded of course, but a non-breeding contract put in place for a mare. Therefore wouldn't this give professional breeders more control on the situation of 'backyard breeders'. Please excuse my ignorance if this is a stupid question, I'm only new and still learning.

 

[Marty]

Marty, even tho I think most of us are running a "non profit" with our horses...its the enjoyment and love they bring us that cant be measured in $$$$. I also wanted to add...I think anyone wanting to breed mares..should look at it like, they will be adding to there herd and have the means to keep and maintain the foal, rather then sell it to anyone who comes along for little or nothing. thats my opinion. Corinne

Right on again Corrine. I sit on my sales horses rather than to sell them to the first one that comes along if I don't think that buyer has a good home to offer. I have no trouble keeping what was brought into this world by my hand for the duration if that's what it takes. I found that if I bide my time, the right buyer does eventually appear. I'm never in a hurry to breed. Nick's got the year off because I am staying small!

 

[Kitty]

Hurray to you for owning geldings!!! :aktion033: We have a bunch ourselves and my daughters favorite horse here is a gelding! They are the best present for any youth.

I know alot of people will sell on a gelding contract. Unless you hold the papers until gelded or have them gelded before they leave your farm how do you have control? If I live in Wisconsin (which I do) and say a buyer lives in Maine, how am I too know if you did or did not have the horse gelded. Papers can be made to look like they were gelded. And heck alot of people don't care about papers. They will bred without them.

The same problem with mares only worse. Unless you spay the mare how will you know? My mare was a nice looking mare with really nice bloodlines. BUT she had issues and we didn't feel she could emtionally handle a foal. She was MEAN to foals. So how would she react to her own. Maybe fine, maybe not. I didn't want to chance it. And all those mares with bad bites, bad conformation, bad foalings that the vet recommends not to rebred, what about those? Someone will chance it. Unless you spend the money to guarantee it won't happen, it probably will, UNLESS you keep them for life.

So all this adds to bringing the prices down. People buying pet quality or even less than pet quality and breeding because a foal is cute or they are hoping to "pay for their habit". Promise you they don't pay for themselves. Wish they did

 

[Jill]

Kitty's points make A LOT of sense to me.

:

 

[Lisa-Ruff N Tuff Minis]

I have always said (and been flamed for saying it) think about how many less horses would be brought into the world if even just every forum member who breeds held back and didnt breed 2 mares they had planned on no matter how wonderful they think they are- that alone would easily be 1000 foals LESS in ONE YEAR that does make a difference. To me that is a huge amount of foals and that is just this forum and I am sure the numbers could be even higher/

Another thing I think everyone forgets is that first off everyone thinks there horses are tops I have yet to hear OMG look at the peice of junk I bought today.

And most of those same people can find others who believe the horse is amazing as well.. maybe it is maybe it isnt heck even judges cant agree

:

No matter how much you believe in your horses the question really needs to be WHY do you feel the need to breed do you truly believe the 4,5,9 20 horses you are going to foal out in 2008 will be horses the breed just cant go on without?

 

[Jill]

I don't know Lisa. I see the point, but then what if those mares would have produced just what you or me or someone else was looking for? We both (and all) know, all breeders are not created equal and there are some I'd love to see expand, vs. cut back.

The coming years will teach me a lot, but one thing I really do think I have done right, is to have not jumped into breeding right off the bat. I got my first mini in 1999, and my first actual planned foals will happen in 2008! The two foals I've had previously (even the one by my former stallion, now gelding) were from mares I bought while already in foal.

The biggest damage to the breed, I feel, is from people breeding 100's if not 1,000's of poor quality minis to each other year after repeated year.

 

[Lisa-Ruff N Tuff Minis]

I don't know Lisa. I see the point, but then what if those mares would have produced just what you or me or someone else was looking for? We both (and all) know, all breeders are not created equal and there are some I'd love to see expand, vs. cut back.

While I agree with that Jill... honestly there is more then one breeder putting out what I am looking for and even with 1000 less foals .. there would still be plenty to choose from however.. again while I know what you are saying.. I am sure there are many that continue to breed that use that same exact point to defend -it works for those whose horses are what "most " consider quality and those that "most " dont.

Guess there is just no one answer cause like I said before I have yet to hear someone say I love to breed my herd full of poor quality horses no one believes that that could apply to them cause I have yet to hear anyone say I have poor quality horses guess that is the huge key right there which of course puts us right back to square one

:

 

[Jill]

I've always thought a great start at learning to evaluate your horses is to get them in the ring at registry shows. There are a few people I could name (but won't) that I know don't show but I also feel have great quality. There are many more who don't show, or show to the gate, but still feel they've got breed quality horses. I don't see that many "real" show homes turning out a lot of what I don't want to see. I know that there are fabulous horses who will never earn a ribbon as they'll never go into the ring, but the oposite is more often true (where the owner feels they're fabulous, and they're not -- yet sire or birth foals year after year).

 

[backwoodsnanny]

Very interesting thread for the record we only have two breedable mares here and they were NOT bred this year but do want to add to this topic by saying this issue is not just mini related. Its HORSE reltaed. We were just given a retired Standardbred retired at 3 years old huh????? physically sound great temperment a lovely young horse. Thousands of dollars spent to train her as a trotter and at 3 her owner believes she is washed up and not good for anything :new_shocked:

We were offered this horse because her next trip was to a meat buyer in another State. The owner didnt want to WASTE any more money on her because she couldnt win after only 4 starts. She qualified as a 3 year old but after only two races had placed only 3rd and 7th so she was only good for dog food in the owners own words. This man was a friend and I suppose he still is but he has lost alot of respect in my eyes. He had his mare bred for this girl "The breeding alone cost him more than it does to feed my minis for a year. She was given to us because he couldnt put her on the meat truck and we said if he ever wanted rid of her we would take her. At least he put her somewhere where she does have a chance at a better life. I do have to give him credit for that I guess.

What will become of her not sure yet but for starters she will be trained for saddle She is going to the trainer next month when the trainer has room.

I dont know the answer to the mini problem and I dont know the answer to the HORSE problem in general but it would seem to me that if everyone would just step back and value the animals they have or expect to have that the throw aways would be a much smaller number. But as long as there are owners who are convinced that horses have to earn their keep so to speak there will be horses who are unwanted and prices will stay low.

 

[Songcatcher]

Backwoodsnanny, I can agree with your sentiment, but not your economics. We must understand how to separate the two. The breeder you refer to is doing what it takes to make horse breeding a PROFITABLE business. You breed for the best and cut your losses when you do not succeed. You see a lovely horse (quite likely valuable for some other purpose) and can't imagine why it is being thrown away. You save the horse. Down the line (theoretically), you or someone else may breed the horse and it passes along its less than perfect qualities which the original breeder wanted to cull. Thus, the lower quality is reproduced and the overall prices decline. Same thing that is happening in Minis.

On the other hand (and I know this is an UNPOPULAR idea), if the lower quality horses are allowed to go to the meat market, they do not reproduce, supply is lowered, quality is increased, and demand is increased.

I AM ABSOLUTELY NOT SAYING THAT ALL NON BREEDING HORSES ARE WORTHLESS! I am just saying that if you remove them from the market, quality and demand go up.

You must be able to separate emotion from economics to understand this.

 

[Shari]

So you are saying people that charge $1,000 to $3,000 for a stud fee are only the picky ones? Interesting will have to tell Carol that. Even with her $350.00 she rarely and I mean rarely allows outside mares to pair with her stallions. You have to know her and then you have to have a very nice mare of good quality.

Love how everyone goes back to high prices are the only way to weed out bad breeders. Having been in the horse industry for 35 years.. I have seen over and over across the board that is not the case.

Even when you have very high qualtiy animals..no matter what you will end up with average qualtiy foals..that is just a given.

I know of a couple of big and I mean big Arab farms.. will not name names.. that are well known.. and hide their average and junk foals in the back 40 so to speak so the buyers never see those get. They only tout on how excellent all their foals are. Am sure there are mini breeders large and small that do that too.

As for barn blind..anyone that knows me personally, knows I can pick apart my horses like no other can. No,,I am not barn blind. I know what I have.

Once case in point.. my grey Icelandic mare.. very nice conformation for the breed, excellent gaits..but she has a wiggy mind and will never be bred. I will not put out another animal like her.

For showing.. again.. I have seen so many good breeds ruined because of showing. Showing only follows fashion. I remember in my grandmothers time,, a time before big lick TW. Where there were 13.3 /14.1 hand TW,,naturally gaited, gentle good all around horses.. and then came the big shows.. people that showed went farther and farther and ended up with Big lick horses. They started small with their abuses,,and it grew and grew,, year by year. People would try to justify their abuse...so it would be ok in their minds eye.

Am sure I am going to tick someone off...but as I have said.. I am picky in what I like and do not like.

This goes with those wonderful original sized arabs... beaufitul in their own right.. then the shows.. we get distorted and discusting extremes or ones that look more like saddlebreeds...

I could go on and on.

I want a animal.. any breed of horse with a "Balanced" conformation and a easy to train temperament. No extremes one way or another.

I only breed every few years and no more than one or two. I have not bred minis since I moved to this farm.

I have bred my Blk Icelandic mare to a 1st prize stallion..because they are both excellent quailty naturally.

No chains, no neck sweating to make them look better and so on.

If people want to say only the rich should have minis.. or only shown mini's are the right type..or their abuse is ok. That is your right.

HOWEVER,, other folks have their rights too. While I really dislike ultra refined minis with snakes for necks..or extreme QH types.. I can't walk up to someone and say are you nuts.. those horses look like S**** and should not be breed.

People, along with judges each have their own ideals on what a good mini is. There is no cookie cutter out there that stamps only one type of mini the best.

I am not talking about the Dwarves or the junk. Those can happen to even the best breeders, if they are truthful.

This discussion is old as time. I like and would bred for the type of mini I like and can use. I only breed every few years and am very picky about homes. Am also very picky on who I pair my amimals with. Believe me.. I seen some show winners I would never use. I have seen stallions rarely shown or only shown VSE and the like, that would take ones breath away.

I know a few others who are like me in their choices.

It is up too each person to make the best choices they can and the freedom to do so.

 

[littlesteppers]

Wow..good opinions and thoughts!

I have to reply and set One thing clear..I am TELLING nobody what the should Do or NOT do..

I was just analyzing the replies. It is a free country and everyone is free to breed or not to breed their stock.

Even if it hurts themselfes in the long run (sorry the devil made me write this :bgrin )

In MY humbled opinion there is a difference in "Breeding" something ALIVE for profit.. .if you try for bigger carrots (hmmm..lol) and they come out small..just eat them..if you have a precious life..you can't just shoot it..

best to find a purpose for "it" On Gelding..I am not surprised people don't geld..

and sale on gelding contract from a business point of view. A gelding sells cheaper than a stallion and on top you have to put out the dollars for the procedure. Again..dollars vs. right thing to do. And than there always is the question..WHY did you geld him? Like it is a very bad thing to do...

 

[Buckskin gal]

"No matter how much you believe in your horses the question really needs to be WHY do you feel the need to breed do you truly believe the 4,5,9 20 horses you are going to foal out in 2008 will be horses the breed just cant go on without"

Lisa, I am sure the planning of one or two foals I plan a year would not be missed in the mini horse industry. Why I plan for one or two foals some years is because I like owning and showing what we have bred. Just like you feel a lot of pride in showing at Nationals with a horse you bought, I feel great pride in producing a mini that is conformationally correct, beautiful and fits the Standard of Perfection. We take pride in different things and I feel nothing wrong with that. Some people take pride in selling the most minis.....just their thing, while others take pride in other aspects of the horses. I love the challenge of producing a foal that I am proud of. If my one or two foals a year is doing damage to the market then I will consider doing none at all but who is going to sell me that beautiful perfect horse and I be able to afford it? Unfortunately we all can't afford to go out and buy something different and wonderful every year. Besides that I don't really go for the fad of the day and have in mind exactly what I want. My horses are well taken care of and loved on and trained and one of my most cherished things to do and look forward to is having one or two foals a year. My money is spent on them and not on a whole lot of shows for me to boost my ego. Hope you understand why I do breed for one or two foals a year. My answer to your question...maybe I can't do without them even though the breed as a whole could. mary

 

[nootka]

I have not read every reply, but plan to.

I have to say that my 1 or 2 foals a year probably don't amount to MUCH, however, if every person had just 1 or 2, it does add up.

I do think about where the foals I breed will end up.

I HOPE they will end up in the show ring, CDEs, pleasure driving, etc.

At the worst, I hope they will be a beloved pet, but that's only if they have some problem preventing them from the previous hopes. I hope that in addition to their show horse/pleasure career, that they will also be treasured AS pets.

I have been both lucky and unlucky with homes I have sold to. In one case, I took a horse back, rehabilitated him and re-sold him to a wonderful home.

I have kept three of the foals that I have bred (the total number of foals born here has been 16), and two are deceased (one in the sac and the other was Kyan this year).

There are 11 foals out there that I've bred and sold. I know where half of those are, and keep in contact with the owners. The other half, I have to hope they are doing as well as they were hoped to, and being cared for. They aren't/weren't all show horses, though they were all sound for pleasure driving and/or anything one can do with a healthy Miniature.

One of the mares was a non-breeder by virtue of her underbite alone, though I suspect she had minimal dwarf characteristics. She is happily living as a pet for her owner, though she does parades and things with her.

Almost all of the colts have been gelded, not because there is anything WRONG with them, but because I feel it's almost criminal to sell colts by a quality stallion that noone will pay a decent price for. It waters down the value of a stallion to sell colts that are not as good as or better than he is and keep them intact yet sell them for a fraction of what that stallion is worth.

I wish it were easier to spay mares, for I would also do that, but gelding colts helps (IMO), to ensure that the home they get is getting them for the horse, not necessarily just to have something to impregnate their mares without thinking of the entire picture.

I realize it seems arrogant of me to think this way, but I do have control over the ones born and sold here, so I will make my little statement my own way.

I've had people tell me they admire my mindset, as they observe that a lot of my colts are better than many of the breeding stallions out there, but I also realize that what people say and do are two different things.

My " new" (as in recently gelded my colt) gelding, Pyro, for example, is VERY nice. If he had been a mare, he would stay here to replace his mother as a broodmare along with showing in her younger years. HOWEVER, being that he is male, and there's nothing wrong with him, the going price for an intact young colt with no faults and solid chestnut is pretty low, even with a nice local show record going.

I realized that as soon as he was born, so I decided NOT to breed his mother for next year, and possibly not the year after that. I will need that time to dedicate to finding him a new home, as I already have my show gelding in Mouse. He may be the nicest horse I have bred, though. I will keep him and show him, and train him to drive if he's here until he's three and beyond.

What I refuse to do is price him down to $250 just because sorrel colts/geldings are a dime a dozen and now that he's gelded he's basically worthless in some people's eyes. My horse IS better than a lot of them out there, and I'm not the only person who says it. If my "arrogance" makes it so that he's here forever, then so be it. I will simply not breed to the point of panic/fire sale mentality.

IF something happened where I could not keep them, then that is another matter entirely. However, I do not ever want to have a "make room" sale when I have re-bred without giving the foals on the ground time to sell. I truly believe that if I had a larger herd I would work the same way.

I did re-breed one mare for 2008, though it's iffy if she took. By that time, I hope that I will have sold at least one horse, but if not, I will not be breeding for 2009.

I breed for horses I would want, because if noone else wants to give me money for them, that is what they are.

Sorry I went on and on about this, but I think about this all the time. I am perfectly happy directing others to people that I know and feel are ethical and fair for purchases when I have nothing that will fill their needs. I don't believe in putting a square peg in a round hole (as in selling a horse to someone that wants something different or needs something different).

We're all trying to improve the breed, and in order to do that, we must stop ourselves from breeding the ones we know likely won't work out, and/or committing to promoting the horse and devoting ourselves to selling before we overpopulate and force ourselves to take far too little for our product, which also happens to be a living, breathing, feeling entity that deserves at least that consideration. If not, then go play a sim game, or collect model horses.

I have no problem with those that have a good market, and manage to sell to good homes (be they breeding, show or pet/pleasure).

Liz M.

 

[Minimor]

A gelding sells cheaper than a stallion and on top you have to put out the dollars for the procedure

While it's true you have to put out money for the gelding procedure, the bolded part of that statement isn't entirely true in the Miniature world. There are plenty of dirt cheap stallions/colts out there on the saleboards too. Sadly no one values geldings in the Miniature world. If they did, there would be more of them. More geldings would mean fewer colts/stallions. That might raise the price of the stallions/colts, and hopefully would raise the quality of them too, assuming that people kept only their best colts intact and gelded the rest. With colts being higher priced, if people want a gelding they will have to pay more to get it--either by buying a higher priced colt & gelding it, or by paying the higher asking price for geldings. Will this actually work? We'll never know, because too many Mini breeders want to save their money and sell on a gelding contract rather than geld their colts themselves. Or, they'll just dump their colts at low prices to get rid of them, and not worry about a gelding contract.
A few buyers honor gelding contracts. Many don't, and has been mentioned, if the buyer chooses not to honor it, there isn't a whole lot the seller can do about it. Withholding papers might work in some cases, but many people will just go ahead & breed even without papers. Buyers plan to geld the colt, but then they get him home, decide he's cute and then decide to go ahead and breed with him. Or they get a neighbor/friend wanting to breed to him, and decide they can get rich off stud fees & so leave him intact. In many cases (not all, obviously) if these people had bought an actual gelding, they'd never even have thought about breeding. They'd have a nice gelding & enjoy him as such, and the temptation to breed wouldn't be there.

But, how many times do we see sales pitches where the seller is saying they'll sell breeding packages, or every colt on the place is absolutely someone's future herd sire....in fact "MUST" or "NEEDS TO BE" someone's future herd sire. I do not see things changing until breeders begin to value geldings and start promoting those geldings and selling them as such.