What makes a top breeder to you?

[Connie P]

I would say consistency is the biggest thing for me. Integrity and how they care for the animals. This is a great post!

Although I personally do not show anymore I have spent HUGE amounts of money on my horses and my program and am always trying to improve so that the foals I produce can compete in the show ring. I am very happy with both of my foals this year and the one foal that we had last year (although I cannot take the credit for the breeding - that belongs to Diane Kaler of DRK Miniatures) is doing fantastic showing in Europe.

 

[Genie]

Honesty and integrity are tops for me, and next is how they treat their horses. Of course, I want quality, but I want to judge that myself. I don't really care if a horse has been shown, or has National Titles, as long as it has the quality to be shown (or bred). I may not necessarily agree with all the judges out there, but it is important to me to feel like I have "winners" when I see them in the pasture. There are lots of reasons why some breeders don't show and it doesn't necessarily mean they have lower quality horses. I don't care if the farm is big or small or new or old, but I do believe you can get better deals at the smaller farms if you know what to look for. And then we get back to integrity and honesty.....

I agree totally with this statement.

Number one though - "Integrity and Honesty"

Good post

 

[Linda K]

I agree with most everyone on this topic. But just how is "Breeder of the year" choosen ? What is it based on? and who chooses them?

I often wondered , but have never asked.

Linda Killion

 

[Sue_C.]

To me, being or striving to be, a good breeder has very little to do with how many champions one has...or not. I showed halter horses successfully for years, and know that a good handler can give the illusion of showing a "perfect" horse. Heck, I have taken even cow-hocked horses to World levels, so the halter ring to me, is all an illusion; it doesn't mean that horse is better, IMHO. Many times it simply means he was handled well, and had a pretty head. It is amazing how many judges are swayed by a pretty first impression, and a handler that looks them in the eye.

A good breeder is one who breeds for conformation, and disposition first and foremost...then worries about colour, and pizzazz. You don't have to have ribbons for that; a good horse is a good horse, whether standing in a field, or a show ring.

A good breeder who produces sound, sane and reliable horses for both the beginner, or expert handlers/drivers.

A good breeder who keeps thier paperwork up-to-date.

A good breeder is one who will stand behind thier product, and if it is not as advertised, will come forward and take the "blame", and make things right with the purchaser.

A good breeder is one who will buy back or help place a horse that is not working out for the purchaser, not just wash thier hands of the horse they just sold as it is trailered away; to accept the responsibility for life...of the horses they have caused to be produced.

A good breeder will not ever consider taking an aged broodmare or stallion to an auction to download her onto some one else, because he/she is no longer fertile. You, the breeder, owe it to these horses to give them the retirement they have EARNED.

 

[Genie]

To me, being or striving to be, a good breeder has very little to do with how many champions one has...or not. I showed halter horses successfully for years, and know that a good handler can give the illusion of showing a "perfect" horse. Heck, I have taken even cow-hocked horses to World levels, so the halter ring to me, is all an illusion; it doesn't mean that horse is better, IMHO. Many times it simply means he was handled well, and had a pretty head. It is amazing how many judges are swayed by a pretty first impression, and a handler that looks them in the eye.

A good breeder is one who breeds for conformation, and disposition first and foremost...then worries about colour, and pizzazz. You don't have to have ribbons for that; a good horse is a good horse, whether standing in a field, or a show ring.

A good breeder who produces sound, sane and reliable horses for both the beginner, or expert handlers/drivers.

A good breeder who keeps thier paperwork up-to-date.

A good breeder is one who will stand behind thier product, and if it is not as advertised, will come forward and take the "blame", and make things right with the purchaser.

A good breeder is one who will buy back or help place a horse that is not working out for the purchaser, not just wash thier hands of the horse they just sold as it is trailered away; to accept the responsibility for life...of the horses they have caused to be produced.

A good breeder will not ever consider taking an aged broodmare or stallion to an auction to download her onto some one else, because he/she is no longer fertile. You, the breeder, owe it to these horses to give them the retirement they have EARNED.

Absolutely

 

[sfmini]

I agree with the idea of the consistent producer, but I do hold breeders with total integrity at the very top of my list. Limestone miniatures is one of those breeders, she wants her buyers to be happy and is more than willing to replace a horse that doesn't work out.

As for the AMHR breeder of the year? I lost respect for that title many years ago after seeing one breeder 'win' that spot for years. This was a long time ago, in the 80's, and this person was a judge. We were at the Ohio State Fair which was the AMHR nationals at the time, and this person kept beating our horse. The kick came in solid color, 60 horses, again this person was first and we were second. Their horse was kind of ok colored, but didn't deserve to place let alone win. Our guy was absolutely glorious in color, glowing black with dapples.

The breeder came to me after that class and asked if we were going to this show in IL, I said no. She said, oh you should go. No, too far. She says, you should go, you would do really, really well, I guarantee it. I am the judge for that show. That is the only reason I am beating your horse, because this judge will be showing under me at the next show.... You should come to my show.

Well, that was enough for me to NOT go to that show or ever show under her. When I saw her on the front cover as breeder of the year, I about gagged.

 

[MindyLee]

I totally agree with most of everyones answers, and with all that has been said: I just am wondering...

Do you consider yourselves top/great breeders in your local area?

I personally do myself as well as a couple others that are close by. I also see a lot of farms when doing farrier work and not just because their my horses, but the quality in my foals/horses seems so much nicer than most others. But again I do have to remember that I am striving to breed for quality and not for just a foal or for a "grade" backyard pet. I am beyond myself with my foal this year and hope to have a repeat of her next year along with 3 other foals that I anticipate in how they will turn out.

I wish I could hit the showring more agreesivly but because of $$$ I cant, but I am striving to someday have one of my foals hit the national or world ciricut... I got my fingers crossed because hopefully this years foal will if and when she sells!

 

[kaykay]

Breeder of the year is a combination of showing points and selection. I guess once they take the top farm/points then it goes to a selection committee?? And then they pick the breeder of the year. What I was told anyway. I know its addressed in the rule book.

 

[JMS Miniatures]

I think breeder of the year is how many points you get based on horses that have shown that year that comes out of your breeding program. You don't have to be the one that shows it either, its whether or not your breeding program works and your kicking butt in the show ring with your breeding program. I believe thats what it is.

As far as it doesn't take a top breeder to beable to show or not, I agree to a point. You better know what your talking about when it comes to your horses where they are show quality or not, and you better have attended some shows, and I mean recent shows and know what they are picking, and you better have proven show horses that you have bred yourself but perhaps not necessarily shown. And if you don't show you have to advertise to let people know who you are. Sorry folks but to become a top breeder you must spend some money. Yeah when it comes to showing the judges may not pick what you want and thats ok, but you got to see what these judges are picking.

Another important thing popped up and forgot to put it into my post and that is honesty. When I got into this "business" I have defintelly met a few dishonest people in my days, thats ok I will just move on and look for someone else. I want to find a breeder that could be my friend and not someone I want to avoid.

 

[Genie]

I agree with the idea of the consistent producer, but I do hold breeders with total integrity at the very top of my list. Limestone miniatures is one of those breeders, she wants her buyers to be happy and is more than willing to replace a horse that doesn't work out.As for the AMHR breeder of the year? I lost respect for that title many years ago after seeing one breeder 'win' that spot for years. This was a long time ago, in the 80's, and this person was a judge. We were at the Ohio State Fair which was the AMHR nationals at the time, and this person kept beating our horse. The kick came in solid color, 60 horses, again this person was first and we were second. Their horse was kind of ok colored, but didn't deserve to place let alone win. Our guy was absolutely glorious in color, glowing black with dapples.

The breeder came to me after that class and asked if we were going to this show in IL, I said no. She said, oh you should go. No, too far. She says, you should go, you would do really, really well, I guarantee it. I am the judge for that show. That is the only reason I am beating your horse, because this judge will be showing under me at the next show.... You should come to my show.

Well, that was enough for me to NOT go to that show or ever show under her. When I saw her on the front cover as breeder of the year, I about gagged.

doesn't surprise me

 

[LaVern]

This breeding of miniatures, although we have come so far it is still so hit and miss.

I have three mares that should work well with one of my stallions. I tried two years with them and no luck. The results were average to say the most. Well, I said no more of that--.

You can imagine my surprise when I went to do stud reports and there I had one of them listed with that stallion. I couldn't believe that I had done that. I checked the pasture pictures and sure enough there she was standing with George.

I was so disgusted with my self that I didn't even nominate her in Futurity. Well, without a doubt she foaled my best filly this year. Outstanding --Go figure. I think if I ever had a shot at the big one it would be with her. Now, people will see that and say that must be a good cross, not knowing about the bad ones. Is it my responsibility to tell a prospective buyer about all the bad ones from that line. Yes, I think it is.

 

[txminipinto]

Breeder of the Year is based on number of horses being shown across the country and their success across the board. It's one recognition a small breeder like myself will probably never see; but that doesn't stop me from trying!

 

[icspots]

I'm familiar with the particular "breeder of the year" from the eightys and both husband and wife are judges and would call people they had sold horses to and tell them where they were judging to stack the deck so to speak and more easily achieve the breeder of the year title which they won on numerous occasions I believe. So breeder of the year holds about as much importance to me as a lot of other titles that have been obtained simply because the players learned the game and learned how to up their odds and win it more than others. I agree with the statement that a good handler can make average look sensational, and poor handling can achieve the opposite, we just need to learn to look through the glitz and see the HORSE.

 

[Genie]

I'm familiar with the particular "breeder of the year" from the eightys and both husband and wife are judges and would call people they had sold horses to and tell them where they were judging to stack the deck so to speak and more easily achieve the breeder of the year title which they won on numerous occasions I believe. So breeder of the year holds about as much importance to me as a lot of other titles that have been obtained simply because the players learned the game and learned how to up their odds and win it more than others. I agree with the statement that a good handler can make average look sensational, and poor handling can achieve the opposite, we just need to learn to look through the glitz and see the HORSE.

Amen!

 

[~Lisa~]

What happened back in the 80's I have no idea but personally I think it is very offensive to the farm who won breeder of the year to imply here on this forum that they did not come by that honor with integrity and hard work.

To say the award itself means nothing since someone 20+ years ago allegedly cheated is like saying all mini breeders are nothing but unknowledgable backyard breeders cause we all know a couple breeders that are that way.

I can speak for one breeder of the year having dealt with Taylor pony farm that they are someone I have purchased from and would purchase from again. There minis and ponies are consistently winning at local shows all over the country and at Congress and Nationals.

I am saddened that their achivements (for more then one year I might add) would be so easily dismissed by some.

Does politics happen at shows sure it does but is it rampant and the only reason people win.. well those who have never shown or who always get the gate will tell you it is however that is simply not the truth.

 

[Marty]

I agree with a lot that has already been said and here is my humble contribution:

I believe a good breeder also keeps ALL his stock up to date on shots, deworming, farrier and teeth, provides good daily humane care administered with love, adequate food/hay fresh water. Not just the ones heading out for sale or to a show. Its amazing what I have seen in some breeders barns: the sales/show horses look awesome, but the rest of the herd out to pasture physically look like complete he**

I believe a good breeder does not intentionally overbreed year after year, then cast his leftovers off to the nearest auction and throw their old senior horses that can no longer produce away like yestardays news. I feel they have served their masters well and deserve to live in their golden years in dignity.

Amen

 

[Katiean]

Kaykay

I would love to be in the ring more. However, I am maintaining my horses on under $1000 per month. No other income. I do scrape all I have to attend at least one show. So, does this mean that if I breed my horses and sell a foal that they are any lessor quality that say, oh, YOURS? Heavy showing = lots of $$$$ Not quality.

 

[kaykay]

Katien

Im not saying just because a person shows their horses are quality but if a person shows and consistently places or wins then yes they are at least showing a quality horse. Otherwise they couldnt consistently win and or place.

Im not a "heavy" show person as I cant afford it. So I pick and choose and try to hit the big shows and always try to attend Congress (and occassionally nationals when I can) I give up a lot of other things to be able to show my horses. But I feel its important to get them out there and have them prove themselves. I can sit at home and proclaim I am breeding great horses all I want but to prove it you have to get them out there. And again I dont think the average person that does not show has any clue how much work it is. I have just clipped and bathed 5 horses for a show this week, plus training plus conditioning plus being on mare stare

And Im with Lisa***to say that breeder of the year means nothing is ridicules. And it demeans the people that have worked so hard to get there.

Just looked at the rule book and breeder of the year is done by HOF points tabulated nov-oct for the year. I was thinking of the People HOF which is done by a selection commitee after they are nominated

 

[MountainMeadows]

As a "breeder" I feel it is my responsiblity to try to better the breed. About the only way you can "prove yourself" is to get out there and show -- yes, there will be politics, yes, the trainers are going to get second looks, yes, SOMETIMES the trainers are going to place better than you think they should -- but we should remember that trainers generally have a lot of horses to choose from when they are selecting their show string - they are only going to take the best of the best if they intend to try to win - and then on any given day they can win or lose depending on a lot of things. Over the years I have seen the quality of the miniature horse improve vastly - in large part to the trainers (yes, I hate to say it sometimes - but the trainers have helped shape our breed due to their competitive nature) I don't think anyone can argue that the look, style and quality of the miniature horse is vastly better than it was 20 years ago. I choose to use a trainer when possible, it is VERY expensive, but for my breeding program, and for ME, I feel like I need to give my horse THE BEST shot at competing and with a full time job and 30 horses to take care of there is just no way that I can find the committed time to condition & train a show horse and take it to shows.

In addition, as a breeder, I like to be on the sidelines really looking at the class to see how the various horses stack up against my horse - I am not so proud/barnblind of my horses & my breeding program that when I see a beautiful horse that I can't appreciate it - after all, that is what this is all about -- THE BETTERMENT OF THE BREED.

It is very hard to be competitive in this industry these days - whether you have a trainer or not - that is a huge tribute to all those breeders out there who are sacrificing and working so hard to breed quality horses and create a breeding program that puts out competitive horses year after year. It is easy to fall back into a "rut" when you don't show and assume that because your foundation stock came from great show lines, or was a past champion that you are still on track - but in reality it is rarely true and the only place to prove it is in the ring.

Yes, honesty, integrity, care & wellbeing of the horses are all EXTREMELY IMPORTANT and I in no way mean to minimize these attributes (nor do I in my own program) - but to those who choose not to show I truly believe that you are missing a very important piece of the overall "breeding puzzle". I truly sacrifice personally so that I can show my horses and "prove" that I am on track, and I do understand how expensive it is both monetarily and also in the time it takes, but for me, it keeps me on track of my purpose - to better the breed.

I am sure that there are many who will flame me for this position, please remember, I am NOT chastising those that choose to operate under a different set of "personal rules" - these are mine and mine alone.

Thanks for reading/listening

Stacy

 

[Katiean]

I was offered a breeding to a B/W pinto. I think he was 29". He had a nice pedigree. I went out to look at him.... and.....he.....was a dwarf. No I didn't breed but didn't want to offend anyone so I just said no thankyou. But, as others have stated it isn't always the pedigree. If I just wanted a pinto foal, I would have bred my mare. But, it does matter a lot what and how many you are breeding to be a good to top breeder.